Realestate Market

[BKK90210]

So we seem to have 3 interested parties.I reckon we're half way there..........

Sea front I think is impossible,

Yeh...I agree....long distance dream!...bummer

I reckon the best we could hope for would be mountains and seaview,

By all means....If I have to climb a mountain to get the seaview, so be it!

House design and development layout would be the most important thing.

Me too!....and I'm by far too picky on these!

EPG

Edited February 23, 2006 by BKK90210

[Humphrey Bear]

I enjoy walking around HomePro which is in town next to Carefore but there are several HomeMart stores on the Highway and one in Ban Ampur as well as the new Kanyong store just past Lotus.

None of them carry the plumbing fitments that I have in UK, and have installed in many parts of the world (often wuith Thai plumbing crews).

Really - I have taught many Thai, Indo-Pak and Filipino plumbers how to do their job better - using techniques from the 1970's and onward, rather than the 1850s and back, as they prefer. But when I try to get things done in Pattaya I find that I (a civil engineer without plumbing professional training) have to show them what is needed - in fact one guy the landlady sent round has been shown three times exactly what I want and each time tries to do it his way - which is just not acceptable.

Angle valves available in Home mart are wrong bore, huge and would be an eyesore. Why no initiative to bring Thai pumbing straight from the 19th to 21st century? It can be done.

Bkk90210,

I'm not sure yoy're going to get much answers from Chippie

However, I can answer some of them for you...

1) How much is the general cost to build a 1 story and 2 story home? 8500B-11500B..sound right?

Sounds about right... Assuming you are talking about the square metre price ???

Probably also worth the premium to go with a foreign managed company, since Quality Control is an unknown term to Thai people.

ItalThai (100% Thai owned) pays huge (like 20 times what a Thai would earn) salaries to farang supervisers because they know the money is well spent...

Sorry - on Suvarnabhumi International Airport Terminal (where Ital-Thai are the Main Contractor, with Japanese partners who have virtually pulled out because they cannot control ItalThai) they are using a 100% Thai work force with nio idea of what they're doing. The place is a disgrace and will certainly be no show-piece for arriving visitors to Thailand.

[Mobi]

....... Why no initiative to bring Thai pumbing straight from the 19th to 21st century? It can be done.

Interesting what you say about plumbing. nearly all the problems I have had with my newly built house revolve around plumbing.

All the sinks leaked

The 'douche' hoses (bum washers) kept bursting causing floods as they water didn't even drain away properly. Couldn't turn them off without turning off the wc cisterns. After about the 7th burst pipe, I suggested to my beloved farang builder to put a 2 way valve on the douche hose so that it can be turned off when not in use, and leave the cistern on. (And there's no-one who knows less about plumbing than me)'What a good idea!' he said, Now no more burst pipes.

The water pump kept cutting out. Called the pump engineer twice; eventually found out that it was a wrong valve in the pumbing side and nothing to do with the pump itself.

The pool kept draining its water (costing me a fortune in water) even though it wasn't set to' empty' Again- faulty plumbing.

All the wc's smelt like hel_l. They all had to be taken out and re-sealed.

Plumbing from the laundry room to the drainage was screwed and we got floods in the garden. It all had to be dug up and re-plumbed.

The sewer pipes were all blocked and we had dreadful smells in the garden and out in the road beside the house.

Bathroom sink tap blocked - I still can't run cold water to my sink.

Not really plumbing, bu they put a glass shower door on for 16K and the first time I showered,the water went all aver the bathroom through the closed door. Afer endless promises, I finally got it fixed myself by calling in a bathroom company who said the door was dangerous and needed to be re-hung, and the solved the problems by sealant and plastic strips. Cost another 5K I have a 21K shower door!

I could go on....

My builder said - they're really clever over here - the electrician is also the plumber - he can do both!'

Need I say more......

[CGW]

Plumbing i have had the same problems with so called plumbers, they dont have a clue, supplies are pathetic. I had copper piping run in bathrooms for hot water, they were convinced I was Baa!

Kanyong have a new water "system" advertised in store that looks a lot better than has previously been available

Cheers

[chippie]

6) Do you or most general contractor/company carry a liability insurance?

??? No such thing in Thailand

Yes there is, and yes we do have it.

[Rimmer]

Just got back from a fact finding road trip down south at Ban Ampur and Bang Saray. I was looking for the 500baht a rai land with sea view.

The good news is I found it.

The bad news is you need to build 20 stories on your roof to see it. Oh and it looks like it will cost around 1m to get power in there as well.

From my brief trip it looks like land around Hue Yai is less expensive than either Phoenix or Bang Saray, strange because it's closer to town than both of the other towns. Seems land can be had there for 500 to 700 a rai

rising to 1m depending on location of course. Some small plots are available and others can be split.

Land to the North of Phoenix along the main road with views over the valley toward Pattaya and the even the sea are in at around 1.5 to 2m one silly man was asking 3m a rai.

Land south of Phoenix but backing onto the golf course is about 1.2 to 1.5 a rai. One plot along the link road from Phoenix to Wat Yaan is in at 2m

Non have sea views. Some look over Nong Nooch and Buddha Mountain and are quite nice. There is a nice 2 rai plot along there for 950k a rai.

Accross the road I saw one for 800k but it would require half a million in land fill. Some of the higher plots actually on Phoenix with "A" designation can see the sea but they are 4 to 5m a plot. As a footnote Phoenix has lost a lot of it's guards but you are still paying a heavy management fee (for what?) and an increased price for power.

There are a lot of small one rai plots in the area as well as some of 7 rai, 11rai, 24 rai and 35 rai, I am told they would split.

I saw four 300 tw plots with land fill and a company for 1.5 each.

I did get a land map showing all the plots in that area, tee hee offers on a post card please.

I did not get much past Wat Yaan Road but it seems to me that any land with a view or land that is higher than surrounding land is already occupied by a Temple. Do you remember "my Thai Mansion" Alan Verstein? He is buidling at the back of Paradise and that high plot he has with sea views cost him an arm and a leg (6m I think) and then he has to build the house.

Regretfully I have to conclude that sea views on the Eastern Seaboard are going to be very very expensive indeed.

[banchang]

Lots of sae front land down here on payoon beach for sale at 6/7 million a rai

[BKK90210]

........The sewer pipes were all blocked and we had dreadful smells in the garden and out in the road beside the house.......................

Signs your septic system may be failing:

Sewerage backup in drains or toilets

Sluggish drains

Mushy ground or greener grass around septic system

Outdoor odors

Nitrates or bacteria in your drinking water

Algae blooms in ponds adjacent to your home

Sludge is the accumulation of solid material that cannot be further broken down by bacterial action and must be periodically pumped out. Failure to pump the system allows solids to overflow into the distribution system thereby clogging the drainfield. This not only can force a costly replacement of the system but may also result in sewage surfacing on the ground. While the frequency of pumping depends on the use of the system.

Septic system failure can also result from:

Tree roots. Roots can clog or destroy the absorption system.

Compacting soil over the drainfield. Driving vehicles over the drainfield should be avoided.

Gravelly soils allow water to pass through to surface or groundwater too quickly, before breakdown of contaminants is complete. Clay soils may impede the rate at which water is filtered.

Or....the septic system is too close to the groundwater surface

Edited February 24, 2006 by BKK90210

[BKK90210]

Just got back from a fact finding road trip down south at Ban Ampur and Bang Saray. I was looking for the 500baht a rai land with sea view.

The good news is I found it.

You mean 500 per TW(not rai)? Well it’s good to know such price still exist

The bad news is you need to build 20 stories on your roof to see it. Oh and it looks like it will cost around 1m to get power in there as well.

Hmm…if we could find a seaview with just 2-3 stories high it would be nice. I’m sure the improvement cost and getting utilities will be minimal if we can have at least 10 homes there.

From my brief trip it looks like land around Hue Yai is less expensive than either Phoenix or Bang Saray, strange because it's closer to town than both of the other towns. Seems land can be had there for 500 to 700 a rai..(per TW?)

I attached topography map below for the area. Now I can see as why the Huay Yai area is still cheap because I think the area might be in a sort of watershed area………anyone else has other thoughts about this?

The soils will be too wet (hydric soil) clay like and the groundwater table could be quite close to the surface. This could be good to having a water well since you don’t have to drill too far below the surface. At the same time it’s bad for the septic design hence you have to bring the fills in high enough in order to lift up the septic system at least 4 foot minimum above the natural groundwater table level. Because of its dependence on natural filtering and treatment, soil is the most important part of a septic system

Regretfully I have to conclude that sea views on the Eastern Seaboard are going to be very very expensive indeed.

Seem to be the consensus conclusion!

All and all....good works for one afternoon's drive

Thanks bunches "Rimmer".....and below is the attached topo photo.....make sure to enlarge the photo for better details

BKK

Edited February 25, 2006 by BKK90210

[Jai Dee]

This was the answer on another site some time ago, clear as mud

I solved your question about closed Highway 7 at Pattaya. If you see the motorway map from the Highway Department website you can see Highway 7 that connects from the Bangkok-Chonburi Motorway. Actually the Motorway and Highway 7 are the same line and some parts of Highway 36 are changed to Highway 7 because of the Highway Department has a plan to do the project little by little. In the near future Highway 7 will change to be a motorway (tollway) and Highway 7 is being prepared to be a motorway project. This closed road is waiting for the motorway to be extended to Rayong (completed in 2015)

Anyone got a link to this website?

This sort of information would be valuable to anyone interested in property speculation in the area.

And... well researched Rimmer... you've been a busy boy.

[Rimmer]

This was the answer on another site some time ago, clear as mud

And... well researched Rimmer... you've been a busy boy.

Thank ee kind young sir

Yes I did have eye opening busy day.

As a footnote for BKK 90210 the figures I wrote should have a K after them and they are per rai. sorry about that. IE. 500,000 baht per rai not 500 as written.

[Mobi]

........The sewer pipes were all blocked and we had dreadful smells in the garden and out in the road beside the house.......................

Signs your septic system may be failing:

Sewerage backup in drains or toilets

Sluggish drains

Mushy ground or greener grass around septic system

Outdoor odors

Nitrates or bacteria in your drinking water

Algae blooms in ponds adjacent to your home

Sludge is the accumulation of solid material that cannot be further broken down by bacterial action and must be periodically pumped out. Failure to pump the system allows solids to overflow into the distribution system thereby clogging the drainfield. This not only can force a costly replacement of the system but may also result in sewage surfacing on the ground. While the frequency of pumping depends on the use of the system.

Septic system failure can also result from:

Tree roots. Roots can clog or destroy the absorption system.

Compacting soil over the drainfield. Driving vehicles over the drainfield should be avoided.

Gravelly soils allow water to pass through to surface or groundwater too quickly, before breakdown of contaminants is complete. Clay soils may impede the rate at which water is filtered.

Or....the septic system is too close to the groundwater surface

Thanks BKK. The problems now seem to be solved, but the info you rprovided may be useful for the future.

Basically the drainage sewers outside the house (required to be built as part of planning permission) went no where, were full, and were all clogged up and stinking like anything. Following my compalints, the builder had a huge 'soak away' built, and unclogged the mess. It now seems to drain away OK with no smells. Eventually, as the area is developed, I am told the the sewers will be connected to main drainaage systems. We'll see. The toilets now seem to be Ok and the undersoil drainage pipes in the garden are Ok after the builder threw a load of bleach down the inspection holes. He told me to do this once a week to keep things OK. I am also told to put yeast in the WC's once a week.

As you sem to know about these things, any thoughts on all this?

[CGW]

This was the answer on another site some time ago, clear as mud

I solved your question about closed Highway 7 at Pattaya. If you see the motorway map from the Highway Department website you can see Highway 7 that connects from the Bangkok-Chonburi Motorway. Actually the Motorway and Highway 7 are the same line and some parts of Highway 36 are changed to Highway 7 because of the Highway Department has a plan to do the project little by little. In the near future Highway 7 will change to be a motorway (tollway) and Highway 7 is being prepared to be a motorway project. This closed road is waiting for the motorway to be extended to Rayong (completed in 2015)

Anyone got a link to this website?

This sort of information would be valuable to anyone interested in property speculation in the area.

And... well researched Rimmer... you've been a busy boy.

It's a Thai website, good practice

http://www.doh.go.th/dohweb/projectimport/motoway1.htm

[Rimmer]

Quote CGW

It's a Thai website, good practice biggrin.gif

http://www.doh.go.th/dohweb/projectimport/motoway1.htm

You are right it IS good practice, it's even better practice to try to find the bit South of

Lam Cha Bang

[BKK90210]

Thanks BKK. The problems now seem to be solved, but the info you rprovided may be useful for the future.

Basically the drainage sewers outside the house (required to be built as part of planning permission) went no where, were full, and were all clogged up and stinking like anything. Following my compalints, the builder had a huge 'soak away' built, and unclogged the mess. It now seems to drain away OK with no smells. Eventually, as the area is developed, I am told the the sewers will be connected to main drainaage systems. We'll see. The toilets now seem to be Ok and the undersoil drainage pipes in the garden are Ok after the builder threw a load of bleach down the inspection holes. He told me to do this once a week to keep things OK.

Small amounts of bleach is ok for unclogging, rejuvenation, and may be used for odor control which will have no adverse effects to the system.

Because most common household bleaches - such as Clorox - contain Hydrogen peroxide which is a manufactured chemical designed to decomposing readily to oxygen and water and release of heat cause spontaneous combustion when it comes in contact with organic material such as solid waste.

Remember - as long as in moderate used and it must not contain chlorine. Chlorine will kill bacteria in your septic tank. All deodorant soap is designed to kill bacteria! Try to avoid brands containing chlorine if you have a septic system

I am also told to put yeast in the WC's once a week.

Septic systems are biological systems and must have bacteria to work. However, no special seeding is necessary to get them started. The simple act of using the system will provide all the bacteria necessary to make the system function well. Yeast, manure, and especially dead cats will not help develop the colony of bacteria in the tank any faster.

Bacteria that are added must compete with bacteria that are adapted to living in your septic tank. These adapted bacteria have the home field advantage. The newly added organisms can't compete and become dinner for the resident organisms.

As you sem to know about these things, any thoughts on all this?

[richardb]

Would anyone know what rental yields are in Pattaya for various types of property. ( Falang House, Thai house, comercial property )

Thanks

Richard

[Digger]

Richard, For a condo or townhouse downtown, I'd suspect you will be looking at roughly 3-5% per annum, mainly due to high purchase prices and relative low rents. Big houses or condo's downtown will achieve a higher % return due to their rarity but still only 5-7%. Outside of Pattaya proper (i.e into Jomtien or East Pattaya suburbs) you could probably hit 10% with the right property and I used to achieve 16% on a place I owned at the resevoir but I bought when prices were about half of what they are today. Now at a similar project, you would be very lucky to hit 10%.

Having said that, there is a village in East Pattaya which is newly built and solely rents out (not selling to owner occupiers) properties, which is advertising (and seemingly achieving) very high rental rates, however they are aimed very much at the high end corporate expat market - they are probably achieving a return around 10-15% on those properties - the only downside is the whole project would have cost somewhere around 50,000,000 baht to build but I know for a fact that there ongoing maintenance and staffing costs are huge - they must have 20 staff (managers, admin, cleaners, gardeners, security) looking after I think 10 houses. However I guess to be targeting guys with budgets around 100K month, these facilities and services are critical. I looked at buying a house that would have achieved this level of rent, but as I dont live in Pattaya, I discounted it purely because these tenants are very high touch - you cant just rent out the house and leave them for themselves to handle any ongoing issues and there is no effective management company that I am aware off to handle it on your behalf. The project that have built all the rental houses is called Laurel Park and the manager (and I think partial shareholder) is an approachable Australian guy often in the sandwich cum coffee shop at the front, but he has said to me in the past that the overheads are way higher than their investors planned for, which probably means the return is not as good as the headline rent would suggest.

Cant help you on commerical property - I have no experience of that in and around Pattaya, but I suspect its not that good - your competing with Thai's who would think a 3-5% return on capital is a good deal, which frankly would not work for most foreigners technically unable to buy land so your risk profile is too high for what you might get back.

[timber]

Hello,

Looking at building a house like the one in the picture. It would have about 110 m2 up and 35 down enclosed living space. There would be a covered tile area down stairs. What do you think I could (roughly) build it for. A rough per square meter estimate.

Thanks loads for any help

[Viking]

Hello,

Looking at building a house like the one in the picture. It would have about 110 m2 up and 35 down enclosed living space. There would be a covered tile area down stairs. What do you think I could (roughly) build it for. A rough per square meter estimate.

Thanks loads for any help

I am interested as well to know the price but when I see these photos and plans of habitats to bee for the retired falangs I can’t help to wonder how the elderly ,80+, builder is going to negotiate the magnificent staircases almost all to be villas have.

[BKK90210]

"Timber" and "Viking"

Go back and read the first 10 posts......

That will give you some ideas about the costs, as well as what to expect during the construction.

(post #2 has a pdf-link to 2004 construction cost, from valuers asssociation of thailand)

Between 10000-11000B per sq.m is still quite accurate nowaday

Edited February 28, 2006 by BKK90210

[expatgaz]

Regarding rental I have a superb condo which I use as a rental, it brings in approx 12% which is excellent.I pretty much base my rentals on 10%, if this can't be achieved on a regular basis Iam not interested in doing it.Its all down to finding the right places and monitoring them to find out how desperate people are to sell and jumping in with cash deals at a low price.There are huge amounts of properties out there which can be had at a fraction of the asking price.Time & cash is the important factor.

EPG.

[richardb]

There are huge amounts of properties out there which can be had at a fraction of the asking price.Time & cash is the important factor.

EPG.

I take your point . It does soom to be the case that a hands on approach certainly in locating opportunities is the only way to go. Most of the letting agencies I have seen seem fairly proffessional and not to disimilar in levels of service to UK agents. What I have never seen and have no knowledge of ( presumably as I have never been in that market ) is a low end rental market in operation focusing not on high financial worth falang but low financial worth falang and Thai . By low end I am talking of small appartments and rooms for 3-6K per month. My instinct is that such blocks and properties costing far less to put up ( sea view not required ) will infact be beter pure investments ie rate of return on capital than high end.

Richard

[eddy-ham]

So, I've had a thought.There seem to be plenty of people in the same boat, looking for land or planning to build a house etc etc.Iam in this boat also and weighing it all up.How abt getting a group of us together say 6 or whatever and buy a large plot between us and build a small exclusive development on it.If we are thinking abt spending 10 mil or so a peice on building a house we could probably join forces and do the same on our very own gated development for 8 mil or less.Obviously a lot of meetings first to discuss but Iam sure its a good idea.We could decide on the area, Bang Saray, Phoenix etc and decide on the basic house design, better that the development matches and go from there, I'd like a plot of approx 1.5 rai.I think if we had 6 interested parties we could get a 10-12 rai plot wall it off etc and we'd all be on an earner, security would be split so no hidden costs, totally non profit making.Land is cheaper in larger amounts, building costs cheaper in large amounts etc etc, the list goes on.Any one interested ? PM me if you wish.Iam serious on this.

EPG.

Hello,

I have just returned from Pattaya after looking around various options regarding land and off plan builds.I would be interested in a project buying a parcel of land and splitting it up into a small development. I do not at present have 12 mill Bhat approx 7mill baht available, but then I dont really need a 5 bed mansion just a 3 bed high spec house. If you interested in another party coming on board please email me back.. [email protected]..

Design Engineer by profession but have built and designed houses as a side line in the Uk previously.Looking at this as a possible 3-4 year investment.

Would appreciate a general idea of who and what you have planned.

I have looked at the Siam Royal View and unfortunatlay disagree with a lot that is said,the build will be good, location ok, and the fact that the site is nearly sold out proves a point.However, plots are a bit small and the idea of a self build always appeals.

Hope to speak soon.. Edward Junger

[Rimmer]

So, I've had a thought.There seem to be plenty of people in the same boat, looking for land or large

SNIP

amounts etc etc, the list goes on.Any one interested ? PM me if you wish.Iam serious on this.

EPG.

Hello,

I have just returned from Pattaya after looking around various options regarding land and off plan builds.I would be interested in a project buying a parcel of land and splitting it up into a small development.

SNIP

Hope to speak soon.. Edward Junger

Buying a chunk of land and splitting it is a sound idea. Having said that I have already been involved in one abortive project of this nature where one guy just got up and walked away from the meeting leaving the others to either proceed without him or find another partner.

The pitfalls and questions of land ownership and how the area will be managed are many.

They also have to be addressed before the land is purchased.

Seemingly simple stuff becomes complex very quickly and the more people are involved the more complex it becomes trying to suit every need.

Who will own the land?

How will the land be split?

When will it be split?

Who gets the good bit with the view?

Who gets the tatty bit by the road

Will one company own all the land and lease it back to each housholder? (there are benifits in this)

Will there be a management committee.

Will each property have a wall?

I want a 2 mtr stone wall

Well I want a cheap 1 mtr block wall

I want no wall

What about waste water

What about well water

I got no water in my well.

What about a central storage tank for water....

The practical and legal considerations go on and on.

But yes it is possible to do, but ground rules have to be established between interested parties before any purchase or the whole project will end in tears.

[expatgaz]

Fully agreed.

The first thing which needs to be discussed would be if a group are joining together purely for getting a "cheap" plot by buying big and then are going to divide and do there own thing or are they joining to develop a gated 8- 10 , or whatever, housing development.

The problems in doing it are immense, there are many,many pitfalls but done correctly could be very rewarding.

EPG.

[BKK90210]

First of all ....Thanks "Rimmer" for those pic!

I've been busy with works and year end business tax lately. Right now is tax time here again in the US.

Just looked at those pic last night, - decent views though. I have no idea where the place is but I know where Oceanview is - that quite far away in from Sukumvit isn't it. I think we're looking for big chunk of land and develop our own rather than buying just 1 parcel. I'm more worry about the place without having any form of covenants to protect those views.

Anyway back to the development idea. Yes, I think both "Rimmer" and "Expatgaz" are correct of the concerns. I've been living in the subdivision/development of 160 houses here in the US for the past decade and familiar about what entails in having our own development and their problems.

Yes I agree we have to get togather somehow in sorting those above problems beforehand.

The key to a successful development for us is the land division and a good strong covernants for those can/can't do restrictions.

Later

BKK

Edited March 9, 2006 by BKK90210

[Digger]

Dont mean to appear to negative to your idea guys but If I were a betting man, i'd say this will head the same way as the Thai Visa credit card. Quite simply, there is no way you will achieve everyones dreams and individual views on what constitutes paradise. For example, you can put all the covenants you want, but have you any expereince of trying to uphold them? For a land division you need to demonstrate clear access to public highway - in a nutshell for small developments this normally means that the communal roadway is either made a public road or held by a Thai national/juristic person - however access is not allowed to be restricted - thats why Thai's dont pay communal charges - there is basically nothing you can do to force them to pay.

So in your little paradise, thaivisa sam buys plot number 3 - he is a really good guy - but he puts the property in his Thai girlfriends name - suddenly he has a heart attack 5 months into the building and dies without leaving a will. She gets no money from his estate and has no real desire on what to do about a house thats 60% finished. Well, the roof is on, the window frames are in but no aircon and kitchen. Never mind she can bring the family down to help her finish it. Only problem is they have no money to finish it. The GF's mother says, why dont we open a shop in the front - that way we can raise some money by selling somtam and stuff. GF's brother says, well if we are going to do that we might as well bring down the karioke machine from Buriram and plug it into the old guys TV and start selling beer as well. The other concerned residents get out their covenants and say "but you cant do that" Thai GF says, try and stop me - then what do you do? Things get heated, police get dragged in (after a communal donation to the police widow and orphan fund) - basically say look my dear, you cant sell alcohol. So she is peeved and goes and buys 20 chickens to let wander around the garden - can always sell the eggs.

Rest of the project is looking good, however the Thai GF has decided not to pay her share of the communal fee's as she has no money. Not a lot you can do about that. So the other owners pay a little bit more. Then rats start appearing everywhere - pest control needs to be brought in. but our girl has a better idea, she is now the local dog refugee centre because they protect the house from burglers - within couple of weeks, you have 8 dogs all with scabby skin, but of course she has no money to take them to the vet. Eventually the Thai girl, has now managed to sell some food and they have got a bit of money and a friend in the building supply trade has helped them with some paint going cheap. Only problem (for the farang) is that this girl didn't ask what colour it is - loh and behold its bright green - never mind its still paint so we will paint the house green.

OK I am being a bit extreme here but these are real problems you have to consider. There are many many risks in doing this. Another one might be that her garden is pretty large - so she decides to use the space at the bottom of the garden for building some cheap 2000 baht month rooms for the local maids to stay in. So now she hits upon an idea that 2 storeys means twice as many rooms - just so happens that it blocks out the view of the sea that BKK90210 so desired.

So, with at best, dodgy legal standing and unlikely to be holding any form of a developers licence, who will be your front person to handle this with the authorities?

Now while all this is going on Bert, who's bought plot number 6 has been having some trouble back in England - he got the money to buy the land but has run out of money by the 3rd stage payment to the builder - so his house is slowly rotting in the sun, basically with steel roof, but no tiles and the garden looks like a Tsunami has hit it. Unfortunately, the dogs and chickens from no: 3 really like this garden and crap all over it. Who is going to clean everything up? Poor Bert has not been seen for 3 months and is not replying to any emails. Berts builder is deciding to take the law into his own hands for unpaid work he has done and so he decides to re-claim anything of value - so the steel from the roof gets taken down at 6am on a Sunday morning and thats adding to the eysore problems. Berts neighbours dont want to get involved as its Berts own fault for running out of money. Berts also has not been paying any communal fee's - why should he? he is not there and his house is not finished, so his share is met by the people left. Suddenly the communal fee's begin to look expensive - So Jim from number 5 says, we need to cut back on expenses - daytime security is let go - then Jim is promptly burgled at 3pm in the afternoon, but also so is Syd from number 1 - now Syd did not want to cut back on security - he was agreeable to pay the higher amount of fee's - so whose fault is that Syd has no telly? Nasty animosity develops between Syd and Jim - previously happy neighbours start snarling at each other and then every little thing becomes a nightmare. Jim decides to sell up - his dream is ruined - but nobody wants to buy a 8,000,000 baht house overlooking the green half build karaoke/food shop and adjacent to Berts impersonation of a wildlife sanctuary. In despair, jim tries to buy up the rundown property, with the aim of finishing them and then selling them on. Only thing is that the Thai GF, wants 14,000,000 baht for her house. "its not worth 14,000,000 baht" Jim quite rightly proclaims. "oh yes it is, thats what my boyfriend said it would be worth before he died"

Suddenly Bob has arrived and purchased the last plot - he decides he wants to pile drive his pillars and his eager team on constructors work 7 days a week starting at 6am. But as a result of this pile driving, Jim has noticed loads of cracks suddenly appearing in his walls - who is at fault? who is going to remedy this problem - who is going to pay. Now Bob has read all the websites and knows how to build a house properly - only thing is he didn't use an architecht and is adding bits on piece by piece so that his 3 bedroom home now extends to within 1m of the neighbours wall - originally it was 5 meters but Bob figures he needs a den for playing snooker with his mates. Only thing is, he now figures may as well put put a bedroom upstairs - doesn't even consider that the window is going to overlook Jims swimming pool and block out all the sunlight - but heck - what can they do about it - hmmm, not a lot perhaps. You see Jim bought his house in the name of a company and he has not submitted a tax return in the 2 years since he started the company - so he is on thin ice. Bob for all his stupidity, remembers Jim boasting about that - so he is confident, that a word in the right ear down the local authority office will take care of Jim. As Bobs house is growing out in all directions, he figures it better to move the swimming pool into the front garden - the back garden is know a mess of outhouses to restore his Harley's and any other junk he turns his hand to restoring. At least he is not doing it in the front garden (yet). Bob also decides he needs a house for visiting relatives to stay over - a nice little guesthouse if you like. So Bob decides that this needs to go in the front garden as well, overlooking the pool. Bob figures that as its for the inlaws, he can do it on the cheap - so he decides to use the cheapest asbestos roofing material he can find, along with a plastic door and metal slattered window frames. Well he figures its not for him to stay in it - its certainly better than what the inlaws have in Nakhon knowhere. He thoughfully puts in a outdoor Thai kitchen which because he does not want to look at it from his palace, has to overlook the street - never mind thinks Bob, nothing to stop me doing this - who cares if it upsets the neighbours - dont like them anyway. That commitee even had the cheek to expect him to pay for re-surfacing the road ripped up by his JCB's and deliveries. Not likely he thinks - silly idiots should have waited for all the houses to be finished before putting the road down. I need to use that money to put the gold edging around the windows - very French renaisance style along with the blue roof tiles he has ordered - he is looking forward to seeing the faces of his neighbours when they get delivered. Still its a good community and the land was cheap enough.

hel_l or paradise - you decide?

[johnnyk]

A nightmare, but funny! Thanks for making me smile.

[Mobi]

......hel_l or paradise - you decide?

ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT!

VERY FUNNY

I'd ask you to contribute it to my collection of short stories on Thailand, but we'd only fall out over the royalties, the order of the stories, the title, .............

Speaking as one who has just about trusted everyone I have ever met in Thailand, (farang and Thai), I can only recommend that you guys get everything, and I mean everything, agreed in writing and have the contracts reviewed by an INTERNATIONAL FARANG LAWYER, who is bilingual, and is very well versed in Thai law. Also ensure the penalties for contract breaches are fully enforceable in a Thai court. Expensive, but worth it in the end. You don't want to scew up your life's savings.

[Rimmer]

Dont mean to appear to negative to your idea guys but If I were a betting man, i'd say this will

BIG SNIP

hel_l or paradise - you decide?

Yep aint that the truth. situation normal all etc. etc. and that is just the begining.

Suddenly I don't feel well.

When will chapter 2 of this exiting soap be coming out?

Stephen Leather watch out!