If my Thai wife gets a Dutch passport, I think she should exit and enter Thailand using her Thai passport only , as using her Dutch one could result in her having to have a visa or even result in her losing her Thai one.

When entering or leaving the Netherlands she should use her Dutch passport only.

My wife thinks she should use only one or the other so use her Dutch one to leave Netherlands and then use her Dutch one to enter Thailand. As you are only supposed to use one passport to travel with.

She is worried that Thai immigration will ask why there is no exit stamp from The Netherlands in her Thai passport.

Thanks

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Edited December 27, 201213 yr by brianinbangkok

Assuming she gets/got permission not to renounce Thai citizenship when becoming Dutch, she should use her Dutch passport for entering and leaving the Netherlands, and her Thai passport for entering and leaving Thailand.

Dual Nationality is not a problem.

Leave and enter Netherlands with Dutch.

Enter and leave Thailand with Thai.

If Immigration ask just show them the other passport.

The rule is switch passports in the air.

Per above.

The Netherlands allows dual nationality in the case where one takes the nationality of the spouse.

At airport checkin simply show both passports, to confirm no visa is needed. Immigration only the passport of the country entering/leaving.

The Netherlands allows dual nationality in the case where one takes the nationality of the spouse.

Sorry to be pedantic, but doesn't permission need to be sought?

The Netherlands allows dual nationality in the case where one takes the nationality of the spouse.

Sorry to be pedantic, but doesn't permission need to be sought?

Thanks all for your answers.

The dutch immigration site does mention stricter rules for dual nationality but it also says this is what the government has decided in other words it is not made it into law yet. As that goverment has fallen and the new one has said in the Dutch news these new regulations are not going to be implemented. Its not exactly clear now what is going to happen.

First change is not all foreigners have to give up their other nationality when they become Dutch. As it used to be the case.

There are several other things the previous dutch goverment wanted to change and now under the new goverment will certainly not change that are mentioned on Dutch goverment websites a little premature.

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Edited December 28, 201213 yr by brianinbangkok

The Netherlands allows dual nationality in the case where one takes the nationality of the spouse.

Sorry to be pedantic, but doesn't permission need to be sought?

No, it is automatically so that is you take on the nationality of your spouse you can keep your Dutch nationality and vica versa can keep your old nationality.

According to the current English language Dutch 'IND Residence wizard', one does have to claim to be an exception to the rule *before* being granted Dutch nationality. The exception cannot be claimed after naturalisation. Source: http://english.ind.n...&duur=1〈=en .

It is also a bit alarming to see that the site claims that one automatically loses Thai nationality on becoming Dutch. It's possible there's something in the process that implies one is taking on Dutch nationality with the intention of losing Thai nationality - or perhaps not claiming an exception to the one nationality rule is what implies the intention.

Edited December 28, 201213 yr by Richard W

You will of course need to show that you fall under one of the exempt catagories, but when you show that you do not need further approval to keep your nationality.

One does not automatically loses Thai naitonality on becomeing Dutch. Only when one applied to become a Thai national and didn't have Thai nationality as birth right can acquiring another nationality possibly lead to losing Thai nationality. Even then it would not be automatically, it would need to be revoked, a process that involves the minister of interior.

In our case my Thai wife's visa is based on being married to an EU citizen who is not Dutch. Under EU rules she can stay with me and is treated as a EU citizen so no need to do the Dutch language test in BKK , she is doing this here so she can in time apply for a Dutch passport. She already has a 5 year permission to stay and then she could apply for a PR.

Once she has that I can apply for a Dutch passport as I have a Dutch mother. Once I have a Dutch passport she can apply without losing her Thai one.

I get to keep my English passport also. So unless they change the rules again this is the safest way.

However if we do not live in The Netherlands for more then 10 years and let the Dutch passports expire you will lose Dutch nationality.

Wish we could skip her getting a PR as this would speed up things and save about 800euro for the PR.

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Edited December 28, 201213 yr by brianinbangkok

You say that you are English living in The Netherlands; correct?

If so, then as you are an EEA national exercising a treaty right to live in another EEA country your wife has the right to live there with you and all her various applications up to and including PR should be free.

One does not automatically loses Thai naitonality on becomeing Dutch. Only when one applied to become a Thai national and didn't have Thai nationality as birth right can acquiring another nationality possibly lead to losing Thai nationality. Even then it would not be automatically, it would need to be revoked, a process that involves the minister of interior.

To be precise, on becoming Dutch, the right to remain Thai would be forfeited under Section 22 of the Nationality Act 2508. Thais becoming Dutch (presumably just those not allowed to retain a second nationality) are required to notify the Thai government and forward a copy of the gazette announcement of their loss of Thai citizenship to the Dutch IND. There has recently been a discussion of dual nationality on ThaiVisa. It seems I was wrong about there needing to be an intention to cease to be Thai when one naturalises. I may have been confused by Section 13 of the act.

One does not automatically loses Thai naitonality on becomeing Dutch. Only when one applied to become a Thai national and didn't have Thai nationality as birth right can acquiring another nationality possibly lead to losing Thai nationality. Even then it would not be automatically, it would need to be revoked, a process that involves the minister of interior.

To be precise, on becoming Dutch, the right to remain Thai would be forfeited under Section 22 of the Nationality Act 2508. Thais becoming Dutch (presumably just those not allowed to retain a second nationality) are required to notify the Thai government and forward a copy of the gazette announcement of their loss of Thai citizenship to the Dutch IND. There has recently been a discussion of dual nationality on ThaiVisa. It seems I was wrong about there needing to be an intention to cease to be Thai when one naturalises. I may have been confused by Section 13 of the act.

Well I know a Thai who has Dutch and Thai passports and I will ask how she did it. My understanding is that under Dutch law she is allowed to keep her Thai nationality if she applies under the section of having a Dutch husband.

So I should become Dutch first and if the PR is also free as 7by7 writes my wife should get the PR first and once I have a Dutch passport also apply for Dutch nationality as she is then allowed to keep her Thai passport. This also explains why some advise is to not show her Dutch passport to Thai immigration.

PS we already were told we have to wait for my wife to get the PR before I apply for Dutch nationality because her present permit to stay is based on me being English under EU regulations.

Sofar everything regarding visa for my wife has indeed been free.

We are indeed using EEU laws.

She has already had her 5 year verblijfsvergunning for 1 1/2 year now.

Thanks all

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Edited December 28, 201213 yr by brianinbangkok

we already were told we have to wait for my wife to get the PR before I apply for Dutch nationality because her present permit to stay is based on me being English under EU regulations.

As long as you don't renounce your British nationality upon becoming Dutch, she can still use this to live in the Netherlands using the EEA regulations and after doing so for 5 years apply for PR under the EEA regulatiions.

The only proviso is that you (just you, not you as a couple) must have at some lived in the UK.

Indeed, having entered The Netherlands under the EEA regulations she cannot then 'switch' to the Dutch ones.

I have based the above on the situation for dual British/EEA nationals in the UK; but as the same rules apply throughout the EEA the Dutch situation should be the same.

we already were told we have to wait for my wife to get the PR before I apply for Dutch nationality because her present permit to stay is based on me being English under EU regulations.

As long as you don't renounce your British nationality upon becoming Dutch, she can still use this to live in the Netherlands using the EEA regulations and after doing so for 5 years apply for PR under the EEA regulatiions.

The only proviso is that you (just you, not you as a couple) must have at some lived in the UK.

Indeed, having entered The Netherlands under the EEA regulations she cannot then 'switch' to the Dutch ones.

I have based the above on the situation for dual British/EEA nationals in the UK; but as the same rules apply throughout the EEA the Dutch situation should be the same.

Would not the transposition of The Immigration (European Economic Area) Regulations 2006 Regulation 9(2)( also require Brian's wife to have lived in the UK (or, much better, for them to have lived in some 3rd EEA state)?

Safest way is for her to get a Dutch PR then I can apply for a Dutch passport. This way there will be no possible consequences even if Dutch immigration official understand the regulations in another way. Dutch IND senior staff told me to wait for my wifes PR before I apply for Dutch nationality myself. Then she can apply for a Dutch passport based on having a Dutch husband.

Any reason this would not be allowed ?

I believe one can not make use of the EEU regulations in country of orgin so no I do not have to have lived in the UK (besides being born there). Having lived in Netherlands for over 1 year under EEU regulations also allows us to move to country of orgin if we wanted this.

To be clear English national living in The Netherlands, and I have a Dutch mum , lived more then 15 years in Netherlands before age 18.

Thanks all now I know what questions to ask IND.

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Edited December 28, 201213 yr by brianinbangkok

To be precise, on becoming Dutch, the right to remain Thai would be forfeited under Section 22 of the Nationality Act 2508. Thais becoming Dutch (presumably just those not allowed to retain a second nationality) are required to notify the Thai government and forward a copy of the gazette announcement of their loss of Thai citizenship to the Dutch IND. There has recently been a discussion of dual nationality on ThaiVisa. It seems I was wrong about there needing to be an intention to cease to be Thai when one naturalises. I may have been confused by Section 13 of the act.

"Section 13A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality ofthe spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make adeclaration of his or her intention before an official according to the form and in the manner prescribed inthe Ministerial Regulations."

Section 13 makes cleer that if a Thai national takes on the nationality of his/her spouse he/she CAN apply to renounce Thai nationality, which must be granted. There is no need to do so.

Section 22 is more trouble some, but applies only to persons not falling under section 13.

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renouncedThai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

it does seem to say that one loses Thai nationality if one takes on another nationality by way of naturalisation.(and not falls under section 13.Daily practise is however different.

To be precise, on becoming Dutch, the right to remain Thai would be forfeited under Section 22 of the Nationality Act 2508. Thais becoming Dutch (presumably just those not allowed to retain a second nationality) are required to notify the Thai government and forward a copy of the gazette announcement of their loss of Thai citizenship to the Dutch IND. There has recently been a discussion of dual nationality on ThaiVisa. It seems I was wrong about there needing to be an intention to cease to be Thai when one naturalises. I may have been confused by Section 13 of the act.

"Section 13A man or woman of Thai nationality who marries an alien and may acquire the nationality ofthe spouse according to his nationality law shall, if he or she desires to renounce Thai nationality, make adeclaration of his or her intention before an official according to the form and in the manner prescribed inthe Ministerial Regulations."

Section 13 makes cleer that if a Thai national takes on the nationality of his/her spouse he/she CAN apply to renounce Thai nationality, which must be granted. There is no need to do so.

Section 22 is more trouble some, but applies only to persons not falling under section 13.

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renouncedThai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

it does seem to say that one loses Thai nationality if one takes on another nationality by way of naturalisation.(and not falls under section 13.Daily practise is however different.

Yes, seems plenty of Thai have have dual nationality without any problems. Usual grey zone

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It is advisable to enter Thailand on Thai passport and definitely do so for long stays. However, for those Thai from birth it doesn't seem to be a problem to enter on a foreign passport for shot stays since the section of the Nationality that ostensibly provides for revocation of Thai nationality of those who naturalise as aliens is not currently enforced. On the other hand, would you want to be the first, if the government had a change of heart. For those Thai through birth in Thailand to alien parents and naturalised Thais, entering Thailand on a foreign passport creates a real risk of losing Thai nationality. Many have reported on TV that Immigration officers have refused to stamp Thais in on a blank Thai passport issued overseas on the grounds that they are obviously foreign. In this case, you need to ask to see the supervisor and politely point out that you are indeed a Thai citizen and have a right to enter Thailand without any Immigration restrictions under the constitution.

Thanks for all the information I will update here as we proceed.

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