Moving To Thailand Advice

[siamamerican]

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

I would have more savings, but in 2001, while living in Thailand, I had a bad auto accident. Over the the last 2 years, I've been saving about 8-9 thousand a month and want to give Thailand another chance(with adequate health insurance).

While living in Thailand I met my wife. She loves America, but I think I can convince her to go back to Thailand.

Making 225k in Thailand would be impossible, but I feel confident after a few years of networking and hard work we could make 2-4 thousand.

I know this is an awful financial decision, but I would welcome some advice from expats that are currently living in Thailand.

[Sunbelt Asia]

To make this type of money by being an employee is VERY hard in Thailand.

Owning a business and making this kind of money is more likely but still it will be hard work.

You will need to make at least $5,000 per month in Thailand to maintain the same lifestyle of $20,000 salary in the USA.

My advice... work as long as you can in the USA until you are sick of it. The job and $ per month is secure while Thailand or any other country is the unknown.

www.sunbeltasia.com

[siamamerican]

Thanks for the advice. My life style in America is very simple and am currently spending about $3,000 per month. I invest the rest. In Chang Mai, I spent about $1,250 per month and lived comfortably. I don't expect to live lavishly in Thailand, but think it would be possible to make enough, at a minimum, to cover the cost of living. Owning my own business is a possibility, but currently I lack the knowledge - maybe after living in Thailand a couple of years. If I can put up with the 60+ hour work weeks for another year, I'll probably give it a go.

Edited February 20, 2006 by siamamerican

[stevo]

Thanks for the advice. My life style in America is very simple and am currently spending about $3,000 per month. I invest the rest. In Chang Mai, I spent about $1,250 per month and lived comfortably. I don't expect to live lavishly in Thailand, but think it would be possible to make enough, at a minimum, to cover the cost of living. Owning my own business is a possibility, but currently I lack the knowledge - maybe after living in Thailand a couple of years. If I can put up with the 60+ hour work weeks for another year, I'll probably give it a go.

you'd be surprised at what you can get used to. My rent in bangkok is $180 per month including everything. It's a small room, but has everything I need there. Not paying car insurance or dental insurance, etc.. I think many can adapt to most anything and be happy. I have lived a great life here for the past year..

[solo siam]

I'd stay in the US for a while and try and pick up some property there and in Thailand, perhaps two apartments in each country. The rent on those should keep you well enough in either country.

[siamamerican]

I have managed customer service and sales departemnts, ranging from 10 -65 employees. What are the chances of landing a management job? In certain situations, it would seem beneficial to have non-Thai management (e.g., call center, selling their services to American companies )

[Luke06]

Management positions in CRM and sales do exist over here, and with your experience you should have no problems getting one, although I believe they are more popular in other SE Asian countries because the English speaking ability tends to be higher there, e.g. places like the Philippines. I found a CRM position in a few months and am now leaving that position to start another. However, I would have thought that many of these jobs would be based around Bangkok more so than Chiang Mai although I only have experience of the Bangkok market so I am sure that others can give you more info on that.

One thing to consider with these positions is that they are likely to require you to work at night which is not something that I would consider doing for a long time as from my own experience it makes it difficult to settle into the Thai lifestyle, or any kind of lifestyle. Given the money you have saved up you could possibly consider purchasing something in the US and renting it there, the income from that would pleasantly supplement anything you found over here and give you an all important lifeline if it ever was required.

Alternatively as you probably know some people in the right circles from your previous experience you might be able to convince them to set up an office over here doing CRM or something along those lines, could be a very effective cost cutting tool for them. Naturally I would recommend a year or so here first to make sure you can settle but leaving a few irons in the fire back home might prove extremely useful. This would also share the risk of setting up your own business in the unknown. Even if you decided you had enough you could probably set up a manager to run it and go back home with the added bonus of regular "business" trips to Thailand so that you could, "check everything was running as it should"

Edited February 20, 2006 by Luke06

[~G~]

I'd stay in the US for a while and try and pick up some property there and in Thailand, perhaps two apartments in each country. The rent on those should keep you well enough in either country.

I wouldn't recommend purchasing any propery in the US now, prices are skyhigh and are very likely to drastically drop in the next two years. Keeping it in a conservative investment portfolio might be a better idea.

[siamamerican]

Luke, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Your right, CRM is definately not big in Thailand compared to the Phillipenes. I was offered a job in the Phillipenes, but am not interested. It's encouraging that you were able to find work in Thailand. What is the salary range for expat managers?

[Luke06]

To be honest with you siamamerican I really am not sure what the range is. I would say 60/70 K+(per month) but obviously it all depends on the company and the location. My previous experience was in business to business sales so whilst I had relevant experience it wasn't specific. If you wanted to be extremely generous to employers you could offer yourself out at 50 000 (this was what I started on) but I think you would be selling yourself short although that would about equal what you believe your living expenses to be. It took me a number of months to get the first job and that was from scanning the papers everyday and wasting my time on some of the job websites. The latest job I have took a long time to find but then I had a job so the impetus was less.

Having said that I am a young (late 20's), single guy with only a few years in Thailand so I could conceivably be seen as a risk to an employer. Your situation would probably appeal more to many employers, additionally you have more direct experience.

I believe that the best time of year to look for work is from January to May, although that is extremely subjective and older hands could probably give you better info on that. My positions have come from adverts in the Bangkok Post.

I would be surprised if after a few months you couldn't find a job, but as a general -although in your case probably not relevant- a back up plan such as EFL (English as a foreign language) qualification would provide a lot of peace of mind as there are many positions in that realm and the course is only about a month long. Teaching seems to earn about 30-35K although there are positions for more.

Hope this helps.

I know I have found a graphic of salary ranges in Thailand for various positions but cannot locate it, I thought it was on this site but it may have been one of the recruitment sites e.g. Job Topgun. Somebody may be able to direct you.

As a disclaimer on my previous post the range I quoted was not for your reasonable sized multinational. Definitely at the smaller end of the scale.

[Dakhar]

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

I would have more savings, but in 2001, while living in Thailand, I had a bad auto accident. Over the the last 2 years, I've been saving about 8-9 thousand a month and want to give Thailand another chance(with adequate health insurance).

While living in Thailand I met my wife. She loves America, but I think I can convince her to go back to Thailand.

Making 225k in Thailand would be impossible, but I feel confident after a few years of networking and hard work we could make 2-4 thousand.

I know this is an awful financial decision, but I would welcome some advice from expats that are currently living in Thailand.

At 225K, I'd say keep on grinding in America.... while looking earnestly for a great position in Thailand. If you do not find one in 2-3 years, then go to Thailand. With the amount of savings you would have by then, you could afford to retire.

This was my route. I was earning 120-160K, and fell into a good offer in Thailand. I am quiting my job before being fully vested, but going to Thailand has been our (wife and I) dream for a long while now. I am still fairly young, I can recoup the lost saving over time.... (at least I tell myself that)

Cheers

[lopburi3]

While living in Thailand I met my wife. She loves America, but I think I can convince her to go back to Thailand.

You have a happy wife and good job but for some unspoken reason you want to live in Thailand? Strange. And very hard to give meaningful advise. Are we perhaps in mid-life crisis mode? It just does not make sense to this reader.

[LoveDaBlues]

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

I would have more savings, but in 2001, while living in Thailand, I had a bad auto accident. Over the the last 2 years, I've been saving about 8-9 thousand a month and want to give Thailand another chance(with adequate health insurance).

While living in Thailand I met my wife. She loves America, but I think I can convince her to go back to Thailand.

Making 225k in Thailand would be impossible, but I feel confident after a few years of networking and hard work we could make 2-4 thousand.

I know this is an awful financial decision, but I would welcome some advice from expats that are currently living in Thailand.

I think it is an easy financial decision. Perhaps your hardest decision will be convincing your wife.

Based on what you've said you should be able to easily save $135,000 a year after taxes, expenses, etc. Work 3 more years and you will have ((135K * 3) + 225K = 630K) $630,000 USD.

Invest $530K in a 5 year Jumbo CD paying a minimum of 5%. This leaves you $100K liquid for major purchases, emergency, etc. and you're earning $26,500 a year on the CD or $2,208 per month. Of course you are liable for taxes but still you'll be making far more than the $1,250 per month you state you need. And you can keep the $100K liquid in a MM acct. at roughly 3.5% or $219 per month (this goes down as you spend from the MM acct.). The above calcs don't even take into account the interest you'll be making during the 3 years savings period. You should actually have more than $630K if you can maintain your current income level.

A lot of investment experts here will poo-poo the CD option. But it's extremely safe, simple, and takes all the stress out of money worries. At your age you should be able to grind out 3 more years.

My question is this: why would you work 60+ hours a week in a high-stress job and then want to work in Thailand (for peanuts)? My take is the reason to work hard in the states is so you can come here and STOP working. This is what I have done.

Good luck whatever you decide.

While living in Thailand I met my wife. She loves America, but I think I can convince her to go back to Thailand.

You have a happy wife and good job but for some unspoken reason you want to live in Thailand? Strange. And very hard to give meaningful advise. Are we perhaps in mid-life crisis mode? It just does not make sense to this reader.

I suspect burn-out. 60+ hours in a high stress job you hate is a killer. Been there done that. No more for me thanks.

[ChiefBEM]

I'm currently living in the America and am 39 years old. I'm an Exec at a publicly traded mortgage company making $225,000 thousand a year and have approximately $225, 000 in liquid assets. I have no non liquid assets.

I would have more savings, but in 2001, while living in Thailand, I had a bad auto accident. Over the the last 2 years, I've been saving about 8-9 thousand a month and want to give Thailand another chance(with adequate health insurance).

While living in Thailand I met my wife. She loves America, but I think I can convince her to go back to Thailand.

Making 225k in Thailand would be impossible, but I feel confident after a few years of networking and hard work we could make 2-4 thousand.

I know this is an awful financial decision, but I would welcome some advice from expats that are currently living in Thailand.

I think it is an easy financial decision. Perhaps your hardest decision will be convincing your wife.

Based on what you've said you should be able to easily save $135,000 a year after taxes, expenses, etc. Work 3 more years and you will have ((135K * 3) + 225K = 630K) $630,000 USD.

Invest $530K in a 5 year Jumbo CD paying a minimum of 5%. This leaves you $100K liquid for major purchases, emergency, etc. and you're earning $26,500 a year on the CD or $2,208 per month. Of course you are liable for taxes but still you'll be making far more than the $1,250 per month you state you need. And you can keep the $100K liquid in a MM acct. at roughly 3.5% or $219 per month (this goes down as you spend from the MM acct.). The above calcs don't even take into account the interest you'll be making during the 3 years savings period. You should actually have more than $630K if you can maintain your current income level.

A lot of investment experts here will poo-poo the CD option. But it's extremely safe, simple, and takes all the stress out of money worries. At your age you should be able to grind out 3 more years.

My question is this: why would you work 60+ hours a week in a high-stress job and then want to work in Thailand (for peanuts)? My take is the reason to work hard in the states is so you can come here and STOP working. This is what I have done.

Good luck whatever you decide.

While living in Thailand I met my wife. She loves America, but I think I can convince her to go back to Thailand.

You have a happy wife and good job but for some unspoken reason you want to live in Thailand? Strange. And very hard to give meaningful advise. Are we perhaps in mid-life crisis mode? It just does not make sense to this reader.

I suspect burn-out. 60+ hours in a high stress job you hate is a killer. Been there done that. No more for me thanks.

I am a retired executive with over 40 years working with international organizations.

Could you repost with information about your real situation?

You are not the CEO of Radio Shack that was just forced to resign because he lied on his resume when Radio Shack hired him 10 years ago?

[siamamerican]

Many of the posts, for good reason, are questioning my judgment. Moving to Thailand would not be a good financial decision, but I'm bored with my current situation. I could grind it out in America for a few more years, but I want to look at other options. I'm not ready to retire (nor have the money), and probably need the structure work brings to my life.

Luke, I appreciate the employment information. Getting an EFL cert and teaching English would keep me from dipping too much into my savings while looking for better employment opportunities. I might also look into the Philippines. I mentioned in an earlier post that I rejected an offer to work in the Philippines. I didn't accept the offer, because of the person I would be working for - not because I dislike the Philippines.

Dakhar, how did you find your job in Thailand?

Lopburi, I'm not going through a mid-life crisis. Not having any children and the financial responsibility this entails, gives me freedom to take risks. Thailand is exciting and so very different than America. The three years I lived in Chiang Mai were the best years of my life.

LoveDaBlues, I agree with your financial calcs(a little more conservative than my investments, but sound). Working in Thailand, making $1,500-$2,000 a month would be preferred over my current situation. If I save $300,000 before I make the move, I could invest the money and with any luck double it in 10 years. At worst, I determine I was going through a mid-life crisis and move back to America with around $300, 000.

[siamamerican]

I am a retired executive with over 40 years working with international organizations.

Could you repost with information about your real situation?

You are not the CEO of Radio Shack that was just forced to resign because he lied on his resume when Radio Shack hired him 10 years ago?

=======================================

I've been executive for only 2 years and don't have any international experience like yourself. The company I work for has roughly 900 employees with 4 business units. I head the smallest business unit with about 60 employees. When I took over the struggling business unit 2 years ago it had 16 employees and contributed very little to the bottom line. I've tripled the units revenue and contribution margin.

The company was recently acquired by a foreign company. I now report to a new boss that has different views on how to grow my business unit. Up to now I've been winning the internal political battles, because of my successful track record. My new boss has a wealth of big corporation experience, and I respect him, even though I disagree with many of his initiatives.

You asked for me to repost my real situation. The preceding paragraphs are a quick snapshot. I have internal company data and other executives that would verify what I have stated to potential employers.

I also didn't lie about my compensation. $225,000 for my position is low compared to my peers, but when I accepted the job, I lacked the experience of most my peers. In short, I jumped at the opportunity and was very happy with the compensation package. I should have asked for more options, but I didn't anticipate the recent purchase.

That is the real story. I don't have the accolades or breadth of knowledge that you've accumulated over 40 years, but that isn't going to stop me from being successful in the international employment arena.

[Carmine6]

If you hadn't already lived in Thailand for 3 years and had a wife you met in Thailand I can see this kind of question, but I don't really understand what you're looking for.

Every month you work in the US gives you over 6 months of living expenses in Thailand, so why the hurry? Get a reasonably easy to find job and that'll stretch twice as far, or 3 times if the wife works too. Doing another year of time buys you over 6 years of time to find what you're looking for in Thailand, so why not ride the mortgage wave while you can?

[siamamerican]

If you hadn't already lived in Thailand for 3 years and had a wife you met in Thailand I can see this kind of question, but I don't really understand what you're looking for.

Every month you work in the US gives you over 6 months of living expenses in Thailand, so why the hurry? Get a reasonably easy to find job and that'll stretch twice as far, or 3 times if the wife works too. Doing another year of time buys you over 6 years of time to find what you're looking for in Thailand, so why not ride the mortgage wave while you can?

Just looking for a change. Money isn't the end all, but it sure helps.

The last 10 years have been great. I've made enough money to travel the world and have enjoyed almost every day. Currently I'm not in a situation that isn't healthy for the long term. The long hours and the politics are taking their tole. I want to explore my options and hopefully choose the one that will make my wife and myself happiest.

Edited February 23, 2006 by siamamerican

[Dakhar]

Amen

[RAZZELL]

Have a holiday...rest, relax, reconsider...and then get back to work

For a few more years...

[ChiefBEM]

Thailand_survey_salary.pdf

I am a retired executive with over 40 years working with international organizations.

Could you repost with information about your real situation?

You are not the CEO of Radio Shack that was just forced to resign because he lied on his resume when Radio Shack hired him 10 years ago?

=======================================

I've been executive for only 2 years and don't have any international experience like yourself. The company I work for has roughly 900 employees with 4 business units. I head the smallest business unit with about 60 employees. When I took over the struggling business unit 2 years ago it had 16 employees and contributed very little to the bottom line. I've tripled the units revenue and contribution margin.

The company was recently acquired by a foreign company. I now report to a new boss that has different views on how to grow my business unit. Up to now I've been winning the internal political battles, because of my successful track record. My new boss has a wealth of big corporation experience, and I respect him, even though I disagree with many of his initiatives.

You asked for me to repost my real situation. The preceding paragraphs are a quick snapshot. I have internal company data and other executives that would verify what I have stated to potential employers.

I also didn't lie about my compensation. $225,000 for my position is low compared to my peers, but when I accepted the job, I lacked the experience of most my peers. In short, I jumped at the opportunity and was very happy with the compensation package. I should have asked for more options, but I didn't anticipate the recent purchase.

That is the real story. I don't have the accolades or breadth of knowledge that you've accumulated over 40 years, but that isn't going to stop me from being successful in the international employment arena.

siamamerican,

The mortgage industry has been quite a money maker in the past 6 years.

I have seen individuals that were administrative assistants in 1999, and are now Vice Presidents.

Last year, I was shocked by the number of Vice Presidents from Countrywide that were in my classroom. From a different prospective, I was glad they were seeking a higher level of education and understanding. The course was "Quality Management and Productivity."

I can understand why a person would now be looking to leave the mortgage business in the US.

For anyone that did not see this in a ThaiVisa.comn Forum in the past two days, I have attached a 2005 Thailand Salary Survey.

Regards,

ChiefBEM

[anilorak]

Hi,

I'm not an expert in any way...still living in my home country and saving as much as I can to be able to move to Thailand.

I think you should go for it! Work for another year or two and then take the step!

Money isn't everything. If you don't make it in Thailand and don't get the job or living situation you want - you can always go back to the US, get a job etc. Of course, it's important to understand what you can expect and not, but still I think it's important to take some risks if that might give you the life you want!!

Good luck!!

/Lina

[westcoastnative]

Hello,

I have a suggestion. See if your company will let you work six months on and six months off. Offer to take less money, say 100K for the six months. Work in the US during Thailands really hot months and live in Thailand during the cool months of the year. Maybe a longshot but certainly worth a try. It's possible there is another manager that would like to work the half of the year you have off.

Edited June 13, 2006 by westcoastnative

[gwkenny]

I can appreciate your situation and your desire to move.

In your situation the lack of motivation will take it's toll on your work product. That won't be good.

If I was in your situation, I'd do a bit of a rethink. Examine your business and your networked contacts from an outside consulting perspective.

See if you can identify any niche areas that you might fullfill by outsourcing to a company in Thailand. Create some business plans and do some serious analysis to see if these are viable possibilities.

When you are close to calling it quits, start pitching your ideas and see if they take. Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

If someone bites, yes it might take working your ass off for a couple of years to start up your new company, but when it's done, you're where you want to be.

Best of luck!

g-

Edited June 13, 2006 by gwkenny

[GuestHouse]

Sorry I double Posted

Edited June 13, 2006 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

I think you are under capitalized.

By my reckonning, buying a house, car, sorting out family stuff you might not be aware of until you move to Thailand could concervatively set you back around $150K.

If your plans are based on actually finding a well paid job then you have no back up plan.

Your finances should be based on being able to keep your family if you can't work and keep your family well if you find work.

Then there's the whole family and future thing, have you children, if not, how old is your wife and does she want children?

The way I count it, to move to Thailand, settle in and have a secure income of $1000 a month (a fraction of what you have now) you need to have at the very least $500K in cash.

And at that rate your lifestyle is still being eaten by inflation.

My advice would be you are making good money, keep making and saving it. Buy some land in Thailand now (the prices are not going to go anywhere but up) and then work to make enough to live off the interest.

The worst case senario is you go to Thailand, make ends meet for five of six years and are then forced back home to work, your skills are passed, your connections have moved on and you'll have no options.

Money is about options.

Edited June 13, 2006 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

One other piece of advice, and it is not a judgment on anyone.

I'd advise anyone who is moving to Thailand to seperate two issues: Buying a home and Investments that support your life.

Keep the investments offshore where you control them.

I say this because for all sorts of reasons relating to Thai law and life in Thailand, the investment in your home can be easily lost.

You need to make sure that the investments you hold off shore and that support you into old age remain under your control.

[jdinasia]

work until you blow out or the bubble bursts ...

then jump ...

BUT Before you jump ... try REALLY hard to find a job in Thailand from overseas (I am amazed no one here mentioned that) Get hired in the US and you'll make at least twice working here and with much better benefits than if you are hired locally!

[bendix]

siamamerican . .. .. .. i empathise with your situation. I'm in a same same but different situation.

I'm one of the lucky ones. I'm currently in a good expat role working in BKK earning around US$155k a year and with no dependents I'm on a savings spree at the moment. And I'm saving to do just what you are thinking of . . . heading up to CM for a long term rest, or even semi-retirement. I'm two years older than you.

If I quit tomorrow (and I'm sorely tempted to) I can generate around 90,000 baht a month, but I figure the longer i work, the more that i will have as nest egg. Ideally, I'd like that figure to be 100,000. I don't think I would spend half that in Chiang Mai, thus continuing to go some way towards inflation proofing the nest egg.

I want to quit because I'm bored of corporate bullshit. A wellpaid job is hard to quit as you know; but sometimes you have to do what makes you happy.

As for finding work locally . . I dont know. My own experience is that a well educated, savvy guy with decent experience can find a reasonably well-paid role here if he tries. A friend of mine recently arrived and walked into a CFO job within three weeks. He's not on expat money, but they are paying him 120,000 a month and he's happy for the time being. The same organisation is currently looking for an expat marketing manager at around 90,000 a month. They hired someone but he last a few days . they say it is really really hard to find a decent expat here. The ones who they have seen have been more intersted in bar girls than in marketing strategy . . . . . .

All I'm saying is dont be disheartened about so called lack of opportunities for high quality executives here. Remember . the competition you are up against is of a much lower standard than you are faced with in your home market.

It's a hard fact, but it's true.

[samran]

A couple of points just from the non-expat package brigade.

Over the years, I’ve met people who have come to Thailand, who for various reasons, need to work…and want to continue doing what they were doing.

They are primarily young, in their late 20’s or early to mid-30’s. Young, well educated, with some blue chip experience behind them in the west, usually for a company with strong brand recognition here in Thailand.

To a person, these people have been able to find good jobs, in Bangkok, paying a good local salary…ie 80K upwards, but usually in the low to mid 100K’s.

One of the things that I noticed is, that most of them tend to be female, with a couple of male exceptions thrown in. I think the key commonality is that they are all here for something more than a career break. They other key commonality is, and you can tell this from a mile off, they aren’t here for the girls, or are using Thailand as a career break from the west. (And I say this with all due respect to many members of the board…to use a bit of slang, you can easily tell the ‘crusty’s’ from the non-crusty’s). For whatever reason, Thailand for the next 3 to 4 years at least, is to be their home. This may be because they have arrived here as a partner of an expat, or for some other reason such as marrying a local person.

They eventually do get a job, some quickly, for some it can take 6 months, a year. The work isn’t always at the level they were used to working at, but for others, it presents a whole career opportunity. Swings and roundabouts. From these guys perspectives, it isn’t a matter of beggars can’t be choosers. They do get into the general field that they want, with some effort, but less than you’d expect.

A couple of other points, BKK isn’t as cheap as people make it out to be…not if you want to live ‘normally’ like you do at home. In fact, it can be more expensive.

From my perspective, I’m on a comparable Australian salary and my wife is in the position to get a job too with the same salary as well. But together, we do well. No expat perks per se., but I fly a hel_l of a lot for work, so I needn’t worry about where I want to fly for my next holidays…for free on miles. Also, the work I do here, makes me very attractive to a certain type of employer back in Australia, so I know I’ll never get pigeonholed or become unemployable if I decide to move back. So I am not ‘stuck here’ and I can bail out at any time if life necessitates.….

Socially, I am half way between Europe and Australia, so I get to see my friends quite often as they pass between the two. I used to live in London, and I seriously seem more of my European based friends here in BKK than I did when I was in London. Or I can go and see them quite easily too.

The question for me and my wife at the end of the day is ‘how much can I save?’ and the answer is a lot more than we could at home… Thai income tax rates are lower than in OZ, so at the end of the day, I actually pocket more. Not sure how taxes here compare with the US though.