Sandman77 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Hello! Here in my village a dealer offers for 20000 bath a modification of the car replacement of motor to LPG Is this dangerous? I read about same badly exident happen on google gas station exploded including the car, is it real so dangerous! Maybe it happen during exident, or when someone not switch off the motor, or can also happen under normal conditions ? Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 In an accident I would much rather be sitting on a tank of diesel than on a tank of petrol or a tank of pressurized gas. Diesel does not ignite at normal temperature and pressure but petrol certainly does, and a pressurized gas tank is just a bomb waiting to go off if it gets hot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon210 Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 There is a thread talking about conversion to Lpg and the possible issues related. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?/topic/606983-Mitsubishi-Pajero-Sport-3.0-V6-Lpg-Conversion Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A proper LPG installation is in no way more dangerous then petrol or even diesel. The keyword here being "proper"! At 20,000 Baht for a conversion I guess you're at the low end of the price range. One word of advice, go to a big city and get a decent installer to do the job, using decent equipment! Also remember that the installer has to give you paperwork, and you'll have to update the Blue book to include the LPG modification ( a good installer will do this for you). You are also required to inform your insurance company of this modification. Not sure today, but a few years ago there was one major insurer (AIG if I remember correctly) which would not insure LPG powered cars... Your cost per KM will go down around 60%, so on bigger cars savings can be quite substantial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A proper LPG installation is in no way more dangerous then petrol or even diesel. The keyword here being "proper"! At 20,000 Baht for a conversion I guess you're at the low end of the price range. That's probably about the right ball park for a 1600cc-ish simply single point system. If the object is saving money and mileage is not huge then there is really no reason to spend more. It's all in the math. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A proper LPG installation is in no way more dangerous then petrol or even diesel. The keyword here being "proper"! At 20,000 Baht for a conversion I guess you're at the low end of the price range. That's probably about the right ball park for a 1600cc-ish simply single point system. If the object is saving money and mileage is not huge then there is really no reason to spend more. It's all in the math. Correct. Problem is that I really have not seen the basic vacuum controlled systems installed properly. They have to put in the controller which detects if the engine is running or not so gas flow is cut when the engine stalls. I just seen an installation the other day, guy put his ignition key in the on position without starting the engine, and after a minute or so, a strong gas smell started coming out of the engine compartment. Once the key was on, there was idle gas flow, even without the engine running, really dangerous! I had a car converted about 7 years ago, same story, that control unit was missing, simply not installed. Had to go back to let them put it in! At least the injection systems have that safety built in in the control unit, apart from that it will also automatically start your engine on petrol, and switch over to LPG when engine temperature starts going up to normal operating... Injection systems are not much more expensive, 4 years ago paid 24,000 for a multipoint injection system (on a 6 cylinder Cefiro, 4 cylinder would have been even cheaper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A proper LPG installation is in no way more dangerous then petrol or even diesel. I disagree. Punch a hole in a full diesel tank and strike a match. Bugger all will happen. Punch a hole in a full petrol tank and strike a match. Pretty flames. Much hotness. Punch a hole in a pressurized gas tank and you probably wont even have time to strike a match. As I said, I know which of the three I would rather be sitting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A proper LPG installation is in no way more dangerous then petrol or even diesel. I disagree. Punch a hole in a full diesel tank and strike a match. Bugger all will happen. Punch a hole in a full petrol tank and strike a match. Pretty flames. Much hotness. Punch a hole in a pressurized gas tank and you probably wont even have time to strike a match. As I said, I know which of the three I would rather be sitting on. Misconception. First, you'd need some real serious tools to get a hole in a certified gas tank. If a car accident is so bad that the gas tank ends up being damaged, It will not bother the inhabitants anymore as they will most likely not be alive. Most heavy accidents you will end up with a completely totaled car and it's LPG tank perfectly intact. Proper certified/equipped LPG tanks do not explode. Ever. Even when sitting in a fire. When pressure increases, it will blow of, creating a big plume of fire, but no explosion. The only risk is when for some reason the tank is venting gas and there is no fire/ignition source. You will then get a pool of gas on the ground creating an explosion risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 But I have to agree, here in Thailand LPG installations can be worrisome. They have to be done perfect. In the West it is accepted that safety of LPG as vehicle fuel is on the same level as any other fuel. If not, they would not be allowed anymore. The only accepted risk of LPG powered vehicles comes from the fact that LPG is heavier then air. As such LPG powered vehicles are not allowed in covered indoor parking as even a tiny leak would see the gas pooling on the ground, and over a long enough period this can create an explosion risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 For the OP (and other interested parties), here is a video of an actual test, very relevant for Thailand, where they tested a car with petrol, a car with a proper installed LPG and a car with a "cowboy" LPG installation. Hence my advice I made to the OP, go to a big city, find yourself a good installer, and get a proper job done, regardless of extra costs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 And this makes clear how strong LPG tanks actually are! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A good LPG installation is no more dangerous than a car running on petrol. Considering there are millions of petrol powered cars.....how often do you hear of one blowing up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 Proper certified/equipped LPG tanks do not explode. Ever. Even when sitting in a fire. When pressure increases, it will blow of, creating a big plume of fire, but no explosion. Great. I am hugely reassured as obviously a "big plume of fire" is not dangerous at all. However in an accident I would still rather be sitting on a tank of nice non-explosive diesel than on a tank of highly flammable petrol or gas, for the reasons I gave. Anyone who thinks otherwise may like to look at this: and then look for references to similar damage that has been caused to a diesel-engined vehicle. I don't think they will find many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 A good LPG installation is no more dangerous than a car running on petrol. Considering there are millions of petrol powered cars.....how often do you hear of one blowing up? It's not a question of them blowing up: it's a question of what happens when they catch fire. Diesel does not burn at normal temperature and pressure, thus allowing a fair bit of time for accident victims to walk away or be rescued. Petrol and gas both burn really well at normal temperature and pressure. And good luck to anyone inside a burning vehicle using those fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted December 30, 2012 Share Posted December 30, 2012 It's not a question of them blowing up: it's a question of what happens when they catch fire. I don't think I have ever seen a car on fire in all my years of driving. I guess it must happen but by the time the car would be on fire I think the occupants would be well away from the car. I think if you placed a tank of diesel in a fire and the liquid got hot enough say over 205 degrees and expanded enough to rupture the tank the result would be quite spectacular. Far more spectacular than a controlled leak from an LPG tank. Diesel tanks in modern cars are either thin steel or plastic, An LPG tank by it's nature has to be quite robust, certainly more robust than a diesel tank. Most LPG tanks in cars are in a similar location to the OEM gas tank so no more vulnerable than that. Pickup trucks are behind the cab in the box or bed so unless something dropped out of the sky! I think the only ones of concern might be the petrol Fortuners and SUV's where the tank is squeezed in behind the rear bumper. I know it doesn't matter but Thai law a says they must be more than 18" from the rear bumper, which most are not. I'm happy with the location and robustness of the tank on my vehicle. 17,500 when converted brand new and has no problems with leaking or switching on and off when required as mentioned by Monty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 (edited) Had several LP cars while there. Never was concerned about ignition for the most part with the tanks located between the wheel wells in the rear it was more protected then the petrol tank in spite of being even tougher. Having said that there are times to be cautious and you'll lower or eliminate any real concerns you may have. 1) You should get a dual fuel system and switch over manually (not with the automatic function) whenever you start up or shut off for a few minutes to both cool down the cars valves, and to purge the system of any Lp as well as for ease and efficiency of start up and to keep the fuel injection and fuel system clear and cycle out your fuel for refresh (especially important with gasohol). Starting on Benzine also prevents any possible Lp backfire in case the installer is not the best at tuning the car on Lp.. This to me is also the largest concern over possible explosion. 2) I always get out and stand away from the car during fueling and I also oversee the attendant to make sure all is done properly like turning on your fuel fill valve and turning it back off again once filled, this will isolate your fill line at the tank should it get fractured in an accident and prevent any leaks or ignition.. As for tank ruptures that is not the primary concern in an accident, the weak point is the valve and gauge connections where they penetrate the tank and they are also brass and soft metal so a fracture is possible with them but as with any incident even a stock tank it would be a rare and unfortunate instance that is rather unavoidable if it were to happen but likely it wouldn't explode unless it was sitting fractured for some time prior to ignition and the gas collected or if it did on impact it would just jet outward due to pressure and volume and not explode immediately anyways, if at all... Again unless it was leaking for some time and gas had time to collect.. By this time you should be well away from the car or in the worst case scenario it wouldn't matter to you anyways due to the amount of impact. Edited December 31, 2012 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman77 Posted January 1, 2013 Author Share Posted January 1, 2013 Thx for many replys! How high Is the usage of old LPG cars? Over the holidays we make a journey from Isaan to auythaia , with a 3o year old Toyota car by I friend in the village for only 800 km he need 3 and a half tank of LPG! If I begin to calculate with old benzin 91 I pay maybe around 200 bath more then with old lpg car for same distance, so I think only new LPG motors the usage is little ! Maybe for modifies the risk is high some old lpg motor was taken from another car for 2k Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSJ Posted January 2, 2013 Share Posted January 2, 2013 A good LPG installation is no more dangerous than a car running on petrol. Considering there are millions of petrol powered cars.....how often do you hear of one blowing up? It's not a question of them blowing up: it's a question of what happens when they catch fire. Diesel does not burn at normal temperature and pressure, thus allowing a fair bit of time for accident victims to walk away or be rescued. Petrol and gas both burn really well at normal temperature and pressure. And good luck to anyone inside a burning vehicle using those fuels. Your entitled to be concerned for your own life, but I do suggest you look up the stats to get a firm guide on accident outcomes. Should be on the net somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 A good LPG installation is no more dangerous than a car running on petrol. Considering there are millions of petrol powered cars.....how often do you hear of one blowing up? It's not a question of them blowing up: it's a question of what happens when they catch fire. Diesel does not burn at normal temperature and pressure, thus allowing a fair bit of time for accident victims to walk away or be rescued. Petrol and gas both burn really well at normal temperature and pressure. And good luck to anyone inside a burning vehicle using those fuels. Your entitled to be concerned for your own life, but I do suggest you look up the stats to get a firm guide on accident outcomes. Should be on the net somewhere. I dont think that's necessary. Petrol-engined cars do quite frequently catch fire following accidents (or even in petrol stations or repair shops) as the slightest spark can set petrol fumes alight. The same applies to LPG and propane. All are highly inflammable. This just cannot happen with diesel fuel at normal temperature and pressure. It's very simple chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canman Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 A good LPG installation is no more dangerous than a car running on petrol. Considering there are millions of petrol powered cars.....how often do you hear of one blowing up? It's not a question of them blowing up: it's a question of what happens when they catch fire. Diesel does not burn at normal temperature and pressure, thus allowing a fair bit of time for accident victims to walk away or be rescued. Petrol and gas both burn really well at normal temperature and pressure. And good luck to anyone inside a burning vehicle using those fuels. Your entitled to be concerned for your own life, but I do suggest you look up the stats to get a firm guide on accident outcomes. Should be on the net somewhere. I dont think that's necessary. Petrol-engined cars do quite frequently catch fire following accidents (or even in petrol stations or repair shops) as the slightest spark can set petrol fumes alight. The same applies to LPG and propane. All are highly inflammable. This just cannot happen with diesel fuel at normal temperature and pressure. It's very simple chemistry. Diesel typically has a flash point of between 100-130 degrees F. Any diesel spilled onto a hot tarmac road or a hot engine part or catalytic converter will ignite quite easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Thx for many replys! How high Is the usage of old LPG cars? Over the holidays we make a journey from Isaan to auythaia , with a 3o year old Toyota car by I friend in the village for only 800 km he need 3 and a half tank of LPG! If I begin to calculate with old benzin 91 I pay maybe around 200 bath more then with old lpg car for same distance, so I think only new LPG motors the usage is little ! Maybe for modifies the risk is high some old lpg motor was taken from another car for 2k Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app I converted a new car from petrol to LPG & it saved about 60 percent in fuel costs. The conversion payed for itself in one year based on my travel mileage. Remember you have to inform your insurance company of the conversion, a professional conversion company should do this for you and provide the updated insurance policy. Also the land transport office has to inspect the installation after which they provide a sticker of compliance (?). Needs to be repeated, from memory, every five years. the inspection is only 560 hundred baht. Edited January 4, 2013 by simple1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Petrol-engined cars do quite frequently catch fire following accidents (or even in petrol stations or repair shops) as the slightest spark can set petrol fumes alight. No, they don't, that hardly happens at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Petrol-engined cars do quite frequently catch fire following accidents (or even in petrol stations or repair shops) as the slightest spark can set petrol fumes alight. No, they don't, that hardly happens at all. Well they can and do in the winter time when the air is very dry in cold climates and static sparks are generated and ignite a fuel tank while refueling or most especially a gas can but this would happen in the case of a diesel tank as well, not exclusive to petrol and less likely in the case of Lp just based on the way it's filled.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Petrol-engined cars do quite frequently catch fire following accidents (or even in petrol stations or repair shops) as the slightest spark can set petrol fumes alight. No, they don't, that hardly happens at all. It happens often enough for Youtube to be full of video clips of it. That's enough for me. And try this: http://www.cnn.com/2012/06/15/travel/jeep-investigation/index.html Just one model of one brand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackPuddingBertha Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Well they can and do in the winter time when the air is very dry in cold climates and static sparks are generated and ignite a fuel tank while refueling or most especially a gas can but this would happen in the case of a diesel tank as well, ... No, it cant. This is my whole point. Open your diesel filler cap and hold a lighted match to it. Nothing will happen. Then try it with a petrol or gas tank, but please stand well back. Diesel does not burn at normal temperature and pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Well they can and do in the winter time when the air is very dry in cold climates and static sparks are generated and ignite a fuel tank while refueling or most especially a gas can but this would happen in the case of a diesel tank as well, ... No, it cant. This is my whole point. Open your diesel filler cap and hold a lighted match to it. Nothing will happen. Then try it with a petrol or gas tank, but please stand well back. Diesel does not burn at normal temperature and pressure. No don't do that anyone, this is as irresponsible a thing to suggest as anything I've ever read here.. Silly you, (being polite) is lighting a match or anything that produces fire considered to be "normal temperature" to you? Diesel does not burn at normal temp and pressure eh?? Then how did the below fire start and what was the catalyst for it's beginning in the first place since there was nothing involved but diesel fuel to ignite and it was under atmospheric pressure, nothing more.. http://www.wishtv.co...shuts-down-i-74 Or this one? Again nothing else involved but diesel and a simple spark.. Both the truck and the cargo were diesel in both cases with no other ignition source.. The below story is especially notable since it specifically states the cause was the trucks saddle tanks being ruptured during the accident and causing the flames as the cargo was lumber.. http://articles.balt...esel-fuel-truck I can post these examples all day long but no need, this is more than enough evidence of just how ridiculous your posts are and discredits it as irresponsible, trolling nonsense. What your poorly attempting to say is that it does not vaporize as easily as does the other 2 fuels but it is extremely inflammable and can still ignite just as easily and violently if spilled & no longer contained which is the point of the OP's question not while still contained in the tank.. This is off topic now so no more discussion need be made, the point has been clearly and unequivocally established.. Edited January 4, 2013 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Petrol-engined cars do quite frequently catch fire following accidents (or even in petrol stations or repair shops) as the slightest spark can set petrol fumes alight. No, they don't, that hardly happens at all. It happens often enough for Youtube to be full of video clips of it. That's enough for me. And try this: http://www.cnn.com/2...tion/index.html Just one model of one brand. You can find examples of anything on the net these days, but that does not mean it happens frequently. Let alone frequently enough to claim that LPG engines are more dangerous than any other kind of engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funcat Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Petrol-engined cars do quite frequently catch fire following accidents (or even in petrol stations or repair shops) as the slightest spark can set petrol fumes alight. No, they don't, that hardly happens at all. It happens often enough for Youtube to be full of video clips of it. That's enough for me. And try this: http://www.cnn.com/2...tion/index.html Just one model of one brand. You can find examples of anything on the net these days, but that does not mean it happens frequently. Let alone frequently enough to claim that LPG engines are more dangerous than any other kind of engine. It's not the engine,but LPG fuel that is more dangerous than the other two....if by choice,I'll stick with diesel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 It's not the engine,but LPG fuel that is more dangerous than the other two....if by choice,I'll stick with diesel. So? Fire/explosions after an accident don't happen frequently, let alone frequently enough to warrant any warning against LPG for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 How high Is the usage of old LPG cars? Over the holidays we make a journey from Isaan to auythaia , with a 3o year old Toyota car by I friend in the village for only 800 km he need 3 and a half tank of LPG! I traveled from BKK to Sisaket a distance of almost 600 km I have also driven to Phuket which is about 900. You need not worry about the availability of LPG. There are stations everywhere. On my LPG fuel gauge the single red light gives me about 80kms before it runs out. So after all the orange lights have disappeared or after about 250kms, I start thinking about refueling. Costs about 450 baht to flll up. My wife noticed that there were very few NGV stations on the route we took, but lots of LPG.. But you will need to recognize the Thai script for "LPG" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now