U K Cautions Citizens After Koh Phangan Killing: Thailand

[PSYCHOTIC14]

I wish more details about the judgement from the court have been provided. At this rate, the criminal should be more aware of the unexpected outcome from firing a gunshot in the bar. This issue will effectively warn the tourists to be more aware during their vacation. Nonetheless, we all have learned to be more conscious of our live.

[SantiSuk]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

The British Ambassador will be well aware that if he spouts off about the significant dangers of Thailand someone is going to run a piece about the random acts of violence and murder that happen to tourists in London and the UK! I'm not a Thai apologist and I dont have any comparative stats but they happen every year or so I think.

[pacovl46]

Major news in Australia also, heres a link to the re enactment. actually two stories in this clip.

http://news.ninemsn....death-in-phuket

The suspect has quite a contented smug smile on his face, probably thinking nothing will come of it as it was just an accident. My condolences to the family.

His eyes tell a totally different story, though! He's gonna go down. They'll make an example out of him!

[osiboy]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

The British Ambassador will be well aware that if he spouts off about the significant dangers of Thailand someone is going to run a piece about the random acts of violence and murder that happen to tourists in London and the UK! I'm not a Thai apologist and I dont have any comparative stats but they happen every year or so I think.

How often are tourists murdered in london or the UK ? , and if there is one , you can be 98% sure the police will get them and all involved and all will get some british jusice {not perfect} but not many if at all are better anywhere in the world , remember the malaysian student that got mugged during the london riots for example ? his assailants are still eating porridge and rightly so , regardless of the victims nationality , .....what other nations do you think would take any notice of what a 3rd world south east asian country with little education, endemic corruption , a bent police force that caters only for the rich , and takes a rake of all the scams , governments that have a revolution every 5 yrs ? not to mention the double pricing, the racism and sexism ,would you take them seriously ? ,...nooooo, .the UK has nothing to fear regarding mud slinging from anyone , least of all a country with the 3rd?highest gun crime on the planet . pity we didn't colonize thailand ,just to show them what a civil society is,...................and they would'nt need the chinese to build them a railway either ! ,

Edited January 3, 2013 by osiboy

[Beetlejuice]

There are many serious injuries and deaths associated with these Full Loon parties each year, most go unreported and has nothing to do with the general crime statistics of Thailand.

Drugs, drink and young people = trouble. It has now become apparently obvious that these raves where there are virtually no controls are dangerous places to be and anyone that participates in these parties do so at their own risk and the dangers have been well documented over the years.

The British ambassador should be warning of the risks involved regarding these Full Loon money spinners for the locals and Thai local authorities in the area and not go over board by scaremongering tourists off of visiting Thailand as a whole.

[Bkkbound]

For those of us who have been around a while, we can all re-call a number of incidents, the most notorious being the murder of the two brits by the thai police officer /hotel owner in Kanchanaburi who in essence got away with it, for the vast majority of tourists they would be unlucky to get caught up in anything so bad but TAT and frankly normal rules do not apply, that's the shock that a lot of people suffer when things go bad. My experience of thailand since 97 is one of a deteriorating social structure, rampant corruption and a more blatant/public hostility towards farangs which was unheard of 10yrs ago but its still my paradise and i'll live with the risks.

JP

[fish fingers]

"There are risks in going anywhere and I think Thailand is certainly not completely trouble-free"

Our Ambassador knows to choose his words carefully, as good civil servants do. His cosy job and family perks are no.1 priority

[A Member]

What a stupid piece of advice from our Embassy. How can someone be cautious of dancing on a beach and anticipating a gun fight or infact any situation in any location.

In fact I cant think of one thing that anyone can do to "be cautious" as they put it. There is danger everywhere which cannot be anticipated and for sure one cannot prepare for all the time. And what will "checking travel advice" do ?!! after an event like this. Is the travel advice that Brits should not go to that beach, not go to that island, not come to Thailand or are they saying wear bullet proof vests !!

Just a cheap punchline from what I think is a terrible Embassy for more than one reason. A comment that does no help whatsoever to either the current event or to protect against future events.

What they should do is their duty towards a deceased British national and not giving bad or undefined advice to the rest of us or potential tourists.

Going through the motions that's all !

[LUSHGOAT]

Its so sad it has come to this. The world is full of drug boozing thugs who when stoned dont give a s**t bout anything or anybody not only in Thailand. A life for a life is what I believe and I'm sad to say if it were my brother that asshol_e would not have that smug smile on his face for long. Everywhere in the world should bring back the death penalty for Murder in beyond doubt proven cases then some of these <deleted> would think twice before killing someone. Things in Thailand are really getting out of hand and its sad they see us as nothing more than the next meal ticket and no better than a dog. Dont get me wrong there are some good people here but most of them look at us as if we are dog shit stuck to their shoe. Sad, sad, sad and I was hoping for a Happy New Year

[pizzachang]

I think there should be a "severe travel warning" for travelers to the UK! 1.1 MILLION cases of the "norovirus" have been now been reported. Please stay away from the UK - this is your only warning!!

[hellodolly]

Lived in Thailand for more than 6 years and had been coming here for almost 5 years before that and I am happy to say I have NEVER been to Koh Pha-ngan nor do I have any desire to ever attend that awful place full of stupid drunk foreigners, drug addicts and the lowest of the low you will find anywhere in Thailand. Heard enough of the horror stories from not only Thai Visa but friends who have gone and vowed to never return. Go to that toilet at your own risk and don't complain when something bad happens to you.

Right on.

All countries have areas where party hardy is the only draw. Places where you dare not walk alone. People here on TV seem to equate these areas to be just a normal part of Thailand like it is the normal Thai experience.

The British counsel did issue a warning with a map that shows the areas to avoid of course the southern three provinces are warned about also two small areas in connection with land dispute with Cambodia. The rest of Thailand they show as OK to visit.

I am quite sure such a map could be drawn up for any country. Yes things do happen outside those areas in all countries but they are no reason to warn people away from a whole country.

Years ago I was in Mexico when trouble broke out in Chiapes one of the most Southern states in Mexico. The Canadian Government came out with a warning not to go to Mexico. That was because of problems about a four or five day drive south of the border with the states. Like warning some one not to go to Chiang Mai because of the violence in the southern three provinces.

When warning of not going to a country common sense should be applied. Sh-t happens the world over some areas more than others. Have the British Embassy come out with a warning not to go to the states because of all the mass killings in schools?

[Semper]

the embassy just remain their citizens to be caution and be alert whenever they travel overseas, that all i read.

they are duty bound to do it.

Does their government also warn the citizens to be careful when leaving their homes, going to work, driving their cars, going to a pub or bar etc etc?

[osiboy]

Lived in Thailand for more than 6 years and had been coming here for almost 5 years before that and I am happy to say I have NEVER been to Koh Pha-ngan nor do I have any desire to ever attend that awful place full of stupid drunk foreigners, drug addicts and the lowest of the low you will find anywhere in Thailand. Heard enough of the horror stories from not only Thai Visa but friends who have gone and vowed to never return. Go to that toilet at your own risk and don't complain when something bad happens to you.

Right on.

All countries have areas where party hardy is the only draw. Places where you dare not walk alone. People here on TV seem to equate these areas to be just a normal part of Thailand like it is the normal Thai experience.

The British counsel did issue a warning with a map that shows the areas to avoid of course the southern three provinces are warned about also two small areas in connection with land dispute with Cambodia. The rest of Thailand they show as OK to visit.

I am quite sure such a map could be drawn up for any country. Yes things do happen outside those areas in all countries but they are no reason to warn people away from a whole country.

Years ago I was in Mexico when trouble broke out in Chiapes one of the most Southern states in Mexico. The Canadian Government came out with a warning not to go to Mexico. That was because of problems about a four or five day drive south of the border with the states. Like warning some one not to go to Chiang Mai because of the violence in the southern three provinces.

When warning of not going to a country common sense should be applied. Sh-t happens the world over some areas more than others. Have the British Embassy come out with a warning not to go to the states because of all the mass killings in schools?

why would brits go to an american school ?,.... it should be locked to outsiders anyway , not a good example mate, think of another one !..... though the US is the most dangerous country in the western world a warning would not go a miss to the more civilized euro countries IMO , but who would want to upset the US ? ....Seems the UK is afraid of upsetting Thailand in case they spit out their dummy !!.........boohooo

[LomSak27]

BKK_Mike posted

Isn't Thailand already classified as the most dangerous tourist destination for Brits? Simply on the basis of the ratio between the number of deaths and the number of visitors. (Admittedly I think that's mainly down to traffic accidents - a combination of holiday makers on motorbikes with no helmets, thinking that UK rights of way rules mean anything in Thailand, and the lack of a decent ambulance network.)

Maybe the UK should do the same as the US, and list the deaths of citizens abroad, showing the cause of death. Admittedly, it might not help. It's not like the information on parts of Thailand being dangerous isn't out there, it's just not something people tend to look at prior to booking a holiday.

You are of course absolutetly pcorrect but don't tell that to TRAGICKINGDOM, he's got his own fantasy going, don't pour ice water on his dreams and delusions. That said, the UK puts out warnings to this effect every couple years which is picked up by major papers. I have one saved in a folder ... Just goes to show, in one ear out the other ...

[terak]

Now Phillipines

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-20908008

[Theoutsider]

Why do our ambassadors seem so gutless ?! , it's time to warn people how dangerous thailand REALLY .... is , <deleted> to who he may or may not upset , sure there are "risks" in going anywhere, ....wonderful statement , ...like we didn't know travel can be dangerous , ...no sh*t sherlock ! no guts to tell the British tourist its like the wild west here now ? , what you scared of ? loosing some business , sure , the govt coffers come 1st .......the russians told e'm in no uncertain terms to clean up there act , whats the matter Mr Kent , you need mummy to hold your hand ?...........PATHETIC !...........GIVE A WARNING TO ALL BRIT TRAVELERS , we are becoming cannon fodder for thai gangsters <deleted>

Wild West? I've got no idea where you live or what medicine you are taking but I'd like to try some!

He is referring to samui and phangan, which ARE the most lawless areas in Thailand. The police there are absolutely useless. No detective work and no protection for locals or tourists, unless they are mafia connected, or politically connected. The mafia on these two lawless islands are far more powerful than the police.

"samui and phangan, which ARE the most lawless areas in Thailand" thats why they hold their all night drug fulled partys there then.

[Greer]

This was a very sad incident - an accident that could have happened virtually anywhere in the world - being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel great sorrow for the victim and his family - an otherwise fun and exciting trip to the far side of the world ends in tragedy.

There is nothing that the embassy can do to prevent accidents - short of banning their citizens from coming here - which would be completely idiotic. To say that Thailand in general is a dangerous place is quite unbalanced -try living in almost any large city of almost any western country and you see as bad if not worse. I have lived happily in Thailand for over 20 years, and I can say for certain that I feel much safer in Bangkok than almost anywhere in Australia, UK or USA.

In fact I am currently in the Philippines, and this place is much more dangerous and unpleasant - with armed guards everywhere and metal detectors and searches at every entrance to major public locations such as shopping centres and hotels - yes that may make it better when you are inside - BUT - what does it say about the outside, on the street?

What needs to be done is to make sure that visitors understand how to behave in Thailand - obviously this case is different, but many of the reported fights and attacks do occur because westerners apply their own values and likely reactions to the Thai's, and that's the problem; Thai people are generally extremely nice and very quiet and peaceful - usually very friendly and quite conservative, but don't get into arguments with them, because although they will put up with a LOT, when they get angry, there is not gradual build-up, they go straight from "mai pen rai" to incredible and sometimes uncontrolled anger - don't get me wrong - it takes a lot to get them truly angry, but when they do - watch out.

That is the advice that needs to be given to tourists - and it should not be a problem or cause any great concern for the huge majority of visitors, as most people don't go around trying to provoke an attack, so they would never have any reason to be on the receiving end of anything bad.

Thailand is a great place for a vacation, its a great place to live, and its a fun place to visit and travel - but please think before over-reacting or getting into an argument - just as you would anywhere else in the world!

[hellodolly]

This was a very sad incident - an accident that could have happened virtually anywhere in the world - being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I feel great sorrow for the victim and his family - an otherwise fun and exciting trip to the far side of the world ends in tragedy.

There is nothing that the embassy can do to prevent accidents - short of banning their citizens from coming here - which would be completely idiotic. To say that Thailand in general is a dangerous place is quite unbalanced -try living in almost any large city of almost any western country and you see as bad if not worse. I have lived happily in Thailand for over 20 years, and I can say for certain that I feel much safer in Bangkok than almost anywhere in Australia, UK or USA.

In fact I am currently in the Philippines, and this place is much more dangerous and unpleasant - with armed guards everywhere and metal detectors and searches at every entrance to major public locations such as shopping centres and hotels - yes that may make it better when you are inside - BUT - what does it say about the outside, on the street?

What needs to be done is to make sure that visitors understand how to behave in Thailand - obviously this case is different, but many of the reported fights and attacks do occur because westerners apply their own values and likely reactions to the Thai's, and that's the problem; Thai people are generally extremely nice and very quiet and peaceful - usually very friendly and quite conservative, but don't get into arguments with them, because although they will put up with a LOT, when they get angry, there is not gradual build-up, they go straight from "mai pen rai" to incredible and sometimes uncontrolled anger - don't get me wrong - it takes a lot to get them truly angry, but when they do - watch out.

That is the advice that needs to be given to tourists - and it should not be a problem or cause any great concern for the huge majority of visitors, as most people don't go around trying to provoke an attack, so they would never have any reason to be on the receiving end of anything bad.

Thailand is a great place for a vacation, its a great place to live, and its a fun place to visit and travel - but please think before over-reacting or getting into an argument - just as you would anywhere else in the world!

Right on truth

"What needs to be done is to make sure that visitors understand how to behave in Thailand - obviously this case is different, but many of the reported fights and attacks do occur because westerners apply their own values and likely reactions to the Thai's, and that's the problem; Thai people are generally extremely nice and very quiet and peaceful - usually very friendly and quite conservative, but don't get into arguments with them, because although they will put up with a LOT, when they get angry, there is not gradual build-up, they go straight from "mai pen rai" to incredible and sometimes uncontrolled anger - don't get me wrong - it takes a lot to get them truly angry, but when they do - watch out."

The only thing I would add is there is a lot of long time residents here who should realize that this applies to them also.

"

What needs to be done is to make sure that visitors understand how to behave in Thailand - obviously this case is different, but many of the reported fights and attacks do occur because westerners apply their own values and likely reactions to the Thai's, and that's the problem; Thai people are generally extremely nice and very quiet and peaceful - usually very friendly and quite conservative, but don't get into arguments with them, because although they will put up with a LOT, when they get angry, there is not gradual build-up, they go straight from "mai pen rai" to incredible and sometimes uncontrolled anger - don't get me wrong - it takes a lot to get them truly angry, but when they do - watch out."

I thought it deserved repeating again.

[CrisRMenumate]

Thailand has enjoyed significant popularity for tourists by luck and default over the past 15 years or so. Partly because of other better destinations being off limits or not promoted such as Sri Lanka - better beaches, more history and culture but mired in ware and stupidity for past 20 years - Burma/Myanmar - incredible beaches and islands, history, culture and friendliness - when this sleeping tourism destination wakes up Thailand will lose for sure, Malaysia - should have more arrivals because of the english levels, culture, history, connection to Europe, and great destinations there but the "muslim" factor played up by our governments keeps the numbers down to some extent, Bali - although in hot demand they would have more tourism if they fixed their airport and stopped blowing people up (if Indonesia in general ever figured out how to promote tourism properly they would destroy Thailand as a total destination), Philippines is relatively inexpensive, has 5,000 incredible islands with some of the best diving in the world, mixed culture that should be better presented but has the worst airports, ground transport and general infrastructure in the region. Thailand has shot itself in the foot innumerable times only to bounce back bigger and bigger in tourism. When Thailand's neighbours catch up (which wont be hard because THailand has been going backwards in terms of security, quality, safety and price over the past 10 years) then we will see the results of poor government, greed, uncontrolled development, poor quality roads and bad attitude.

For those that rant that their embassy or consulate should be supporting them when they are travelling anywhere, take another pill. As soon as you step out of your own country you are under the laws and control of whatever country you are in, no amount of waving the British (or other) flag will change the law here and neither should it, would you like it if a Thai went to your country, did something wrong and his government was able to push around our authorities to get better treatment for that visitor? You are a visitor, a guest, act like it and you might make it home with some good memories, good stories, experiences, souvenirs and nothing nasty.

[animatic]

If you stay away from Haad Rin and especially around the Full Moon Party,

you will find some pretty mellow people on Koh Phagnan.

Including one of the TVF moderators. There are all sorts of people there,

most of them pretty nice and going about their business with little concerns

past the normal cautions any prudent person takes. That said, not everyone is prudent.

If you lie down with dogs you get fleas, but if you lie in the sunshine,

or under a beach side palm and meditate, chances are you can last 60 years

on K. Phagnagn and never have much trouble.

[siamnatural]

accomadate? hmmm I see. Well, there are in fact tourist destination in the region like Malaysia and even Myanmar that have very little crime in comparison to what we've seen growing in leaps and bounds in the former LOS

[chooka]

Heard on the Australia radio news today that the Australian Government in considering a policy of making airlines flying direct from Australia to places like Bali and Thailand to show a short video warning of the dangers, pitfalls and scams awaiting tourists in Bali and Thailand. A response to the number of incidents involving Australians in these two locations.

I don't know how airlines like the government owned Thai Airways will warm to this but I guess if they want to land in Australia and collect a load of fodder then they may have to embrace it. They could always produce thier own video about Australia to play to the aussies when taking them home again.

[CrisRMenumate]

Regardless of the varying opinions expressed there are two salient and undenyable scenarios.

One is that The British Embasy through the Foreign Office has a mandate to provide information and support to its nationals abroad. Currently this support is minimal and they go out of their way in order not to rock the boat. I have been an expat for the pat 40 years in one country or another and I have seen their service and attitude wither to the level it is at today.pathetic !

The second point is that anyone who does not accept that this is indeed a dangerous country is either in denial or on prescription medicine. Violent crime, rape, road carnage, drug abuse, firearm abuse,child abuse,rampant corruption and scams and extorsion occur regularly with little or no chance of retribution and even less oversight from the embassy. The local media gives these stories the one day wonder treatment and then they are forgotten.

The henious fact is that these things go on daily under our very noses and there is nothing we can do to stop it and very little in the way of justice. It is what it is... and by all likelyhood it will remain so.

Not sure that the first paragraph is warranted given that information is out there and support depends on what can realistically be done. HOWEVER I have rarely seen such an accurate assessment of Thailand as is contained in the second paragraph. It is what it is, so we either learn to live with it and cope or we leave. I can't see anything changing in my lifetime, or for many decades to come. Fertile ground for the whingers on this forum!!

The Foreign & Commonwealth Office website has plenty of guides on what they can do and can't do to help British Nationals when travelling:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/35519/support-for-british-nationals-abroad.pdf

They say:

We cannot:

Help you enter a country, for example, if you do not have a visa or your passport is not valid; because each country can decide who they allow

into their country and (outside the EU) no country has any obligation to explain their decisions to the British Government.

Ensure your safety and security in another country; because such issues are the responsibility of the government and authorities of that country.

Give you legal advice or translate documents, although we can give you details of people who may be able to help you in these cases, such as English-speaking lawyers or professional translators/interpreters; because such support is best provided by independent professionals and we do not have the funding or the expertise to provide such specialist services.

Carry out searches for missing people; because doing so is the responsibility of the local authorities and to search effectively requires the resources that only local authorities can provide.

Investigate crimes, get you out of prison, prevent the local authorities from deporting you after your prison sentence, or interfere in criminal or civil court proceedings; because we cannot interfere in another country’s processes, and must respect their systems just as

we expect them to respect the UK’s laws and legal processes.

Get you better treatment in prison than local prisoners (although we may raise concerns with local authorities if treatment falls below

internationally recognised standards) or get you better treatment in hospital than the treatment that is given to local people;

because we cannot interfere in another country’s processes just as we would not accept such interference in the UK.

Pay any bills or give you money from public funds; because we are not funded to do this and it is the obligation of individuals to take responsibility for themselves. It would be unfair for those who take out insurance to subsidise those who do not.

Make travel arrangements for you, or find you work or accommodation, or make business arrangements on your behalf;

because they are private arrangements which are your responsibility to make for yourself.

Get involved in private disputes over property, employment, commercial or other matters;because we are in no position to judge the facts

and have no jurisdiction overseas to resolve such matters.

== end of excerpt

Its pretty clear... perhaps more should read what the FCO has made public and if they want more services be willing to pay the taxes required to cover them, but should never expect the British (or their own as the case may be) government to interfere in the local authorities and laws of any other country, you wouldn't want Thais interfering in the UK would you?

[tomacht8]

Have just heard that the gunman is at home and not in jail.

[chooka]

Have just heard that the gunman is at home and not in jail.

probably, it's not as if he tripped an accidently shot the nieghbours buffalo, he killed a tourist.

[EyesWideOpen]

Heard on the Australia radio news today that the Australian Government in considering a policy of making airlines flying direct from Australia to places like Bali and Thailand to show a short video warning of the dangers, pitfalls and scams awaiting tourists in Bali and Thailand. A response to the number of incidents involving Australians in these two locations.

I don't know how airlines like the government owned Thai Airways will warm to this but I guess if they want to land in Australia and collect a load of fodder then they may have to embrace it. They could always produce thier own video about Australia to play to the aussies when taking them home again.

Great idea. Just had this quick flash of a Thai official returning from an overseas junket, and having to watch a video warning about scams and dangers in his country..... As you reap , so shall you sow. This has been coming for a long time. Som nam na...

[osiboy]

Have just heard that the gunman is at home and not in jail.

probably, it's not as if he tripped an accidently shot the nieghbours buffalo, he killed a tourist.

sure , its only a cheap farang life,......not like its anything serious is it !

[JemJem]

In countries like the US and Thailand, firearms can easily be purchased and the crime rates are high. Well, now, pro-firearms folks, what do you say to this ? Am I right or am I right ?

[SHAOLIN33]

I live in haad rin and love it !.... FMP is disgusting, can call

Money maker, or whatever......we, the small community that

Love and " L I V E " the place, hates FMP...

in my humble opinion, both sides must tAke respobsability

For their actions : " farang" behave in a horrible way,

And thais answer to it....so...

We shoukd respect the place as well...Many come

Here without respect at all !!!!

There is no excuses for kill anyone, but "farang"

Could help with respect !

Tonight is full moon....ahah...glad to be

Home ( closed ) and verrrryyy glad tomorrow all the

Sheeps go away...

[Osiris]

An update on the injustice we face.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4723591/Thai-beach-Brits-killer-set-to-cheat-justice.html