P A D Threatens To Take To Streets Again Over Preah Vihear, Makes Seven Demands

[connda]

Bus them all to Preah Vihear, put them on the front line (in front of their own army), issue them a gun and tell them that it's up to them to negotiate with the Cambodians. I get tired of nationalistic morons who want to start wars and then sit back and watch from the safety of their Bangkok highrise.

[fatfather]

The Thais are such bad losers when they don't get their way. Like little spoilt children.

The temple belongs to the Khmers, it is a Khmer Hindu temple. It was demarcated on the Cambodian side of the border.

Everyone seems to forget Thailand's habitual land grabs of Khmer and Cambodian territory, especially during WWII when fascist general Phibun invaded and claimed much of Western Cambodia for Thailand, only to be forced to give it all back when Thailand ended up on the losing side at the end of the war. Victory Monument in Bangkok commemorates that shameful land grab.

Throughout recent history Thailand has been the aggressor along the border with Cambodia, training, arming and conducting raids with Khmer Rouge cadres while Pol Pot was given safe refuge in Trat after his odious regime was ousted by the Vietnamese.

Ayutthaya is a Khmer Hindu temple too. Does it belong to the Khmers?

There are many Khmer style temples in Thailand, but unlike Preah Vihear or Khao Phra Viharn in Thai, Ayuttaya is not located anywhere near the Cambodian border so your point is moot.

Also, Ayuttaya temples are unlikely to be Khmer influenced; more likely you are referring to Phimai, about 45km north of Nakorn Ratchasima as well as other temples in Surin, Sri Saket and Ubon Ratchathani provinces.

Panom Rung in South Buri Rum, Ta Muen Tot South Buri Rum and more. I don't like to evacuate my family again.....

Fatfather

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

[borisloosebrain]

If the PAD have to take to the streets again they could at least make themselves useful this time by directing traffic and sweeping the streets..

Edited January 5, 2013 by borisloosebrain

[crazygreg44]

Nobody cares about the temple, they are fighting over oil and gas plots offshore. Big money involved. The temple being used as a front.

I do agree with what you are saying, how ever I wont be surprised if they actually sort the gas fields out very quickly when push comes to shove, as some of the interested parties want the money from the gas in the bank while they are a big wig.

I think the "Yellows" could have egg on their face over this issue very easily. It is clear that the spirit of the judgements previously were in favor of Cambodia. It is a bit like pissing into a 25 knot head wind.

"Re-Drawing" the countries boundary though might open a can of worms down in the south though.

If they redraw the boundary based on the original agreement, that would probably go in Thailand's favour. The agreement said that the border would be on the watershed which would put the temple in Thailand. Unfortunately, the maps produced by the French went off the watershed around the temple putting the temple in Cambodia.

This is wrong. The temple actually is lying outside the watershed - as all the water that rains down onto the temple will flow into direction Cambodia. Also the small valley that divides the temple mound to the Moo Ee Daeng cliff, is thus Cambodia. The watershed starts at the Moo Ee Daeng and continues from there along the ridge which circles off westward. To state that the watershed has been drawn up wrongly by the French carthographers is absolutely not correct.

If only the Thai government would respect that the watershed is the natural boundary - THEN as a direct result the dispute would be over as Cambodia would be satisfied with such a layout. Because the temple and it's surrounding area are ACTUALLY already outside of the watershed. All good maps plus a survey to the area would proove it correct.

Edited January 5, 2013 by crazygreg44

[whybother]

Nobody cares about the temple, they are fighting over oil and gas plots offshore. Big money involved. The temple being used as a front.

I do agree with what you are saying, how ever I wont be surprised if they actually sort the gas fields out very quickly when push comes to shove, as some of the interested parties want the money from the gas in the bank while they are a big wig.

I think the "Yellows" could have egg on their face over this issue very easily. It is clear that the spirit of the judgements previously were in favor of Cambodia. It is a bit like pissing into a 25 knot head wind.

"Re-Drawing" the countries boundary though might open a can of worms down in the south though.

If they redraw the boundary based on the original agreement, that would probably go in Thailand's favour. The agreement said that the border would be on the watershed which would put the temple in Thailand. Unfortunately, the maps produced by the French went off the watershed around the temple putting the temple in Cambodia.

This is wrong. The temple actually is lying outside the watershed - as all the water that rains down onto the temple will flow into direction Cambodia. Also the small valley that divides the temple mound to the Moo Ee Daeng cliff, is thus Cambodia. The watershed starts at the Moo Ee Daeng and continues from there along the ridge which circles off westward. To state that the watershed has been drawn up wrongly by the French carthographers is absolutely not correct.

All the maps I have seen show the temple on the Thai side of the watershed.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[CockneyGit]

Having checked the map again, i see thirg temple hasn't moved and is still on CAMBODIAN soil..!!

Career protestors with too much time on their hands.

[noitom]

Pad is saber rattling again. Boy oh boy, these Thais. They really know how to stir it up. vry impressive. And the stories keep coming in Tattler magazine. The top 500 list is out.

[tragickingdom]

The neofascists of the PAD will always reject any ruling from an international bodies. This PAD scum think that they can do as they please trample on the rights of others and of other countries as they are all suffering from narcism. Do with them what these thugs did not the democracy in Thailand. Sharpshooters on the roof and life firing zones in the areas where they protest and use the silly Zeppelin from Anupong.

[crazygreg44]

to "whybother":

I can show you aerial survey maps that will show your "maps" are wrong. Also, I have visited the site many times and I swear you can clearly see why the watershed is at the ridge where Moo Ee Daeng cliffs stretch. When you follow the watershed line further westward, you can clearly see where all the water flows - to Cambodia. And THAT is the definition of a watershed. It is where the water that rains down flows to either side or the other. The Thais are lying into their own pockets if they think that the temple is within their watershed.

[Richard Hall]

...threatens to take to streets again...

A clear indication that Thailand is getting more and more in demand for a proper and efficient riot police force.

Obviously, this is the price to pay when a developing country is striving for first world country status.

[15Peter20]

Hard times for the PAD leaders.

I think they now feel the need to show whatever strength (ie political capital) they have and choose this temple issue as the rallying cry. They got their biggest following in the past when rallying against Thaksin but the recent disappointment of the curtailed Pitak Siam rally has shown them that the Big T issue simply won't get them significant numbers on the streets any more.

Looks like Srimuang and Co are taking a risk here. If their planned rally doesn't beat the Siam Pitak numbers then there will be nowhere else for them to go politically. Maybe they should have stuck to pulling the strings from backstage instead of trying to appeal to a public who are now sophisticated enough to know their game almost as well as they do.

Edited January 5, 2013 by 15Peter20

[TheGhostWithin]

...threatens to take to streets again...

A clear indication that Thailand is getting more and more in demand for a proper and efficient riot police force.

Obviously, this is the price to pay when a developing country is striving for first world country status.

Agreed. You cannot have first world status with a 4th world Police force. The Police (though some hard working) are a serious danger to the stability of Thailand. Their refusal to act in certain protests is outrageous - and stems from the fact that they act with relative independence from the government.

For those that are against PAD, don't bother to complain now, you did not complain when the red shirts flooded the main business areas of Bangkok for months, terrorised the streets of Bangkok and disrupted nearly anyone coming from the outlying districts for any reason - including friends in Chit Lom who hid in their apartment whilst gun shots were constantly going off.

There needs to be fair elections held with UN oversight (and vote counting, and control of voting stations) and both parties (and conjoined protest movements), including the criminal who throws his money around to cause disorder when he does not get his way, need to accept the decision of the people. Perhaps it is time that every major law change must be approved by public referendum so that the corrupt crooked political system actually works in favor of the people it is designed to protect? Perhaps such gas assets as allegedly exist, should be nationalised if they become a Thai asset, and that all workers become state workers, all profits are given to a good cause outside of Bangkok, such as building better communities in the South?

[Richard Hall]

Well, actually what I meant was that if it comes to "MOB" situations it must be handled by police specifically trained for this situation rather than the military. The casualties of the past speak a clear language.

Personally, I feel and so do does obviously the majority of the Thai people politics do not belong in the street. Whoever I spoke to the message was simply that the people are fed up with those MOB movements independant from their intentions. To any movement their is a counter-movement and obviously this is supposed to be always under the header of democracy.

If we look at "demonstrations" in "advanced" Europe they regularly get out of hand BUT there this special police trained for these situations so casualties will be most likely avoided.

Obvioulsy, the Government is well aware of this in the meantime just considering the preparation when the last announcement by UDD for a mass demonstration was made.

Afterall, the question remains whether it is actually progress when a country requires a strong riot police force when His Majesty the King's sincerest wish is unitiy among his people in the country. How can this go along?

People should express their opinons in elections only by casting their vote accordingly or file petitions at the appropriate Authority rather then engaging in bully like and blackmailing procedures. We do not agree with a decision well let's take it to the street and force reconsideration. A neverending story. Where is the will for a compromise, walking the middle way as Buddhism teaches? Lost to politics? Does this really get Thailand and her people anywhere? The national anthem indicates that Thai people love peace. Where is this gone? Lost to politics?

[rubl]

Interesting. One may be excused to think that the warning issued by the Minister of Foreign Affairs a few days ago is just having the desired effect and soon we'll have 50,000 police officers around to ensure peace while obviously those few hundred PAD-ers require a renewed SoE. Timed with debates on charter amendment or BMA Governor elections preferrably.

Oh, and btw there was a UFO sighted. We're running out of flying pigs it seems. Someone hoarding them probably

[whybother]

to "whybother":

I can show you aerial survey maps that will show your "maps" are wrong. Also, I have visited the site many times and I swear you can clearly see why the watershed is at the ridge where Moo Ee Daeng cliffs stretch. When you follow the watershed line further westward, you can clearly see where all the water flows - to Cambodia. And THAT is the definition of a watershed. It is where the water that rains down flows to either side or the other. The Thais are lying into their own pockets if they think that the temple is within their watershed.

I'll have to go back and find the maps. But it is clearly mentioned in a lot of discussion on the court decision (official discussion, not forums) that the temple is on the Thai side of the watershed, but the maps used in the decision that the Thais "accepted" show the border going off the watershed.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[Soi Dog]

I believe the saying that excessive patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels may apply here.

[ratcatcher]

PAD threatens to take to streets again over Preah Vihear, makes seven demands

The Nation

Oh dear, and here was i thinking that 2013 was going to be as boring as counting rice stocks and these people are sulking already.,

[crazygreg44]

to "whybother":

I can show you aerial survey maps that will show your "maps" are wrong. Also, I have visited the site many times and I swear you can clearly see why the watershed is at the ridge where Moo Ee Daeng cliffs stretch. When you follow the watershed line further westward, you can clearly see where all the water flows - to Cambodia. And THAT is the definition of a watershed. It is where the water that rains down flows to either side or the other. The Thais are lying into their own pockets if they think that the temple is within their watershed.

I'll have to go back and find the maps. But it is clearly mentioned in a lot of discussion on the court decision (official discussion, not forums) that the temple is on the Thai side of the watershed, but the maps used in the decision that the Thais "accepted" show the border going off the watershed.

Sent from my HTC phone.

It would be EXTREMELY ADVISABLE for an UNO Land Survey Team to go to the area and define for NOW and FOREVER where the watershed is. I have been there many times and this View of the official discussion is CLEARLY wrong ! And yes, you say it " the Thais accepted the maps that show the border going OFF the watershed" how simply right this is: the official THAI border goes off the watershed.

There is a small gorge between Mo Ee Daeng cliff (Thai) and Phra Vihear Temple cliff (Camb). The water that runs down the gorge runs eventually into Cambodia. So please offer me an explanation why the temple would be inside the Thai watershed.

Edited January 5, 2013 by crazygreg44

[rfukata]

why doesn't the PAD rally against the Cambodian Embassy in Bangkok or stage a protest along side

Aryanapatet-Poipet border for real attention as well as rescuing the two PADS held in Cambodia?

[mufcsamui]

Sondhi, you are on bail go away and stop causing trouble, leave it to the elected governments to resolve the dispute

[Thait Spot]

The neofascists of the PAD will always reject any ruling from an international bodies. This PAD scum think that they can do as they please trample on the rights of others and of other countries as they are all suffering from narcism. Do with them what these thugs did not the democracy in Thailand. Sharpshooters on the roof and life firing zones in the areas where they protest and use the silly Zeppelin from Anupong.

I believe the minister concerned has suggested not accepting the verdict.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect App

[SICHONSTEVE]

"......(PAD), who threatened yesterday to hold street protests if the government failed to reject the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice (ICJ)."

PAD spokesman Panthep Phuaphongphan said his group would submit its seven demands to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Tuesday, in which the government will be encouraged to speak up at The Hague in April and officially denounce the ICJ's jurisdiction.

What's PAD's hidden agenda..storm and besiege Governtment House again?

Thailand needs rest, not mobs in the streets again.

What an idiots (with their own agenda's but it's NOT about the ancient the Hindu temple Preah Vihear )

I agree.

So much emotion which resolves nothing. People killed for nothing. Just get out and vote. That is the only place you can truly make a difference. When they take away your vote, then take to the streets.

I don't

Just because a government is democratically elected (give or take a promise/bribe or two in the form of populist policies) it doesn't make them unaccountable or unanswerable to it's people, does it!!!

They have every right to demonstrate for their beliefs and if you read the article it say's that all parties (including the Democrats) have failed to resolve this issue satisfactorily so it is not defined along party lines - just something (as nationalists) that they feel immensely strong about and have every right to have their voice and feelings heard about on the matter.

Street protests are not the most desirable form of protest but in the past it has brought the desired changes - and whats more, the government know this fully well!!!!

[geriatrickid]

Panom Rung in South Buri Rum, Ta Muen Tot South Buri Rum and more. I don't like to evacuate my family again.....

Fatfather

Every idiot pushing for a confrontation should understand what you say - innocent people will suffer. We forget that when there was shelling last year we had refugees fleeing. Until someone lives in fear of an artillery shell landing on his/her family, I don't think the backers of a confrontation get it.

[culicine]

Panom Rung in South Buri Rum, Ta Muen Tot South Buri Rum and more. I don't like to evacuate my family again.....

Fatfather

Every idiot pushing for a confrontation should understand what you say - innocent people will suffer. We forget that when there was shelling last year we had refugees fleeing. Until someone lives in fear of an artillery shell landing on his/her family, I don't think the backers of a confrontation get it.

And you can bet your bottom baht that it won't be the PAD in the firing line!

[culicine]

Panom Rung in South Buri Rum, Ta Muen Tot South Buri Rum and more. I don't like to evacuate my family again.....

Fatfather

Every idiot pushing for a confrontation should understand what you say - innocent people will suffer. We forget that when there was shelling last year we had refugees fleeing. Until someone lives in fear of an artillery shell landing on his/her family, I don't think the backers of a confrontation get it.

And you can bet your bottom baht that it won't be the PAD in the firing line!

Wife from Isaan then?

NOPE....and I'm definitely NOT a red shirt supporter either!

[DaamNaam]

Fair enough.

[toenail]

Sad that PAD now looks as protesting in the streets of Bangkok (which involves burning and looting) as a communication tool for scaring people. This demonstrates how little they understand how a democracy works.

[DaamNaam]

Sad that PAD now looks as protesting in the streets of Bangkok (which involves burning and looting) as a communication tool for scaring people. This demonstrates how little they understand how a democracy works.

The PAD (yellow shirts) never burnt or looted anything anywhere. That was the red shirts.

[LaoPo]

Sad that PAD now looks as protesting in the streets of Bangkok (which involves burning and looting) as a communication tool for scaring people. This demonstrates how little they understand how a democracy works.

The PAD (yellow shirts) never burnt or looted anything anywhere. That was the red shirts.

13 leaders, including Sondhi Limthongkul, of the PAD (Yellow Shirts) have been ordered by the Thailand's Civil Court to pay Baht 522 Million in damages, caused by PAD to Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) for the eight-day blockade of Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi airports in late 2008.

That does NOT include the Baht Billions of damages, caused to businesses, passengers, cancelled flights and decline in tourism and much more.

If one would research a little more about this Sondhi character one would find the rise and fall of a once brilliant Thai, now fallen to the lowest standards possible in Thai Society and thus there's not much left of his once large business empire and now left to conducting PAD behind the Yellow curtains of the PAD movement.

He's free on bail, like many others.

But the PAD should stop, creating another battle about "nothing" sine there is NOTHING to fight for by Thailand.

The Preah Vihear Temple complex was started early in the 9th (!) century, by Khmer people and was and IS on Cambodia soil:

Even in the case that the International Court of Justice (ICJ) would favor the disputed area to Thailand...even than, Preah Vihear Temple would still be on Cambodian soil !

What's next for the PAD and Khun Sondhi Limthongkul: start FIGHTING a war over ANGKOR WAT ?

[DaamNaam]

Sad that PAD now looks as protesting in the streets of Bangkok (which involves burning and looting) as a communication tool for scaring people. This demonstrates how little they understand how a democracy works.

The PAD (yellow shirts) never burnt or looted anything anywhere. That was the red shirts.

13 leaders, including Sondhi Limthongkul, of the PAD (Yellow Shirts) have been ordered by the Thailand's Civil Court to pay Baht 522 Million in damages, caused by PAD to Airports of Thailand Plc (AoT) for the eight-day blockade of Don Mueang and Suvarnabhumi airports in late 2008.

That does NOT include the Baht Billions of damages, caused to businesses, passengers, cancelled flights and decline in tourism and much more.

If one would research a little more about this Sondhi character one would find the rise and fall of a once brilliant Thai, now fallen to the lowest standards possible in Thai Society and thus there's not much left of his once large business empire and now left to conducting PAD behind the Yellow curtains of the PAD movement.

He's free on bail, like many others.

But the PAD should stop, creating another battle about "nothing" sine there is NOTHING to fight for by Thailand.

The Preah Vihear Temple complex was started early in the 9th (!) century, by Khmer people and was and IS on Cambodia soil:

Even in the case that the International Court of Justice (ICJ) would favor the disputed area to Thailand...even than, Preah Vihear Temple would still be on Cambodian soil !

What's next for the PAD and Khun Sondhi Limthongkul: start FIGHTING a war over ANGKOR WAT ?

Thats fine and dandy. But it was non violent just the same. Unlike the red shirt bird brain brigade. C'mon folks, get a grip.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Scott