Plodprasop Proposes Flood-Prevention Dam For Bangkok

[slapout]

Mother Nature is a tough one to control/modify. This is most evident in those who slip thru the cracks of natures, natural selection of "survival of the fitest", as this man has shown time and time again..

This individual can probably cost theThailand populas more than all the drunks who think they are in control of the vehicles they are aiming toward their personal destination, on any given holiday peroid.

[siampolee]

Plodprasop is indeed putting a new slant on the expression of ''saving for a rainy day''.

Given his creative commission tactics in various scams schemes he is and has been has been involved with over the years it would seem as he is actually changing the aforementioned saying to ''rainy days are money saving days.''

[MaxLee]

Let the sh******loading on other provinces at the cost of Bangkok continue in the most diversified and face-saving-concealing way possible...

[Chao Lao Beach]

It would not be funded by the already approved Bt120-billion and Bt350-billion flood-prevention budgets. Plodprasop added that the Thai project should be completed during this government's term.

I think it all comes down to this !!!!!!

[OzMick]

One intelligent post out of nineteen....................

Thank you LaoPo.

Pity about the rest of you.

Perhaps YOU can tell me where ~6000m³ /sec of water will go when the mouth of the river is closed.

[MunterHunter]

One intelligent post out of nineteen....................

Thank you LaoPo.

Pity about the rest of you.

Perhaps YOU can tell me where ~6000m³ /sec of water will go when the mouth of the river is closed.

Over the top of the barriers after its backed up enough to raise the water levels several meters...

That might turn Sukhumvit into a nice river mind

[Chao Lao Beach]

Perhaps YOU can tell me where ~6000m³ /sec of water will go when the mouth of the river is closed.

​The same place as the Treasury is going........Rice Millers, fake Chinese companies...... don't be scared by big numbers and real would logic !!!!!

[apetley]

One intelligent post out of nineteen....................

Thank you LaoPo.

Pity about the rest of you.

So, as one poster suggested, the barrage cannot be built in the next three years is nonsense is it?

[bigbamboo]

I'm not a hydrologist, but as a recreational fisherman I have noticed that when a river is in spate the tide may be increasing levels while the flow is still seaward. As spring tides seem to coincide with high flows in the Chao Phraya, I wonder if shutting the mouth of the river at such times would be a good idea.

It definitely is and it will be the ONLY possibility to prevent Bangkok from a major and utter horrible disaster!

I have been warning since many years that the greatest danger for Bangkok is NOT just the excessive water masses from up north but the high spring tide at the same time during a dangerous storm, combined with a full moon!

That only happens in rare weather conditions but the possibility is real.

We have seen the same (several times during the ages) in The Netherlands in 1953 and New Orleans in 2005 by Hurricane Katrina as an example!

I know that many will say that Thailand doesn't have hurricanes but a heavy SE storm, blowing the enormous amounts of waters from the Gulf into the mouth of the Chao Phraya River, combined with high tide AND huge amounts of water coming from up north will effect in a horrible disaster, totally destroying large parts of Bangkok and surroundings!

That's why I fully support the plans to build a dam; the sooner the better but of course in Thailands' case, in combination with bridges, water reservoirs up north and channelling systems for oversupply of water from up north.

The Netherlands completed such dams already and New Orleans is in the process of doing and completing dams and it's the only solution for Bangkok as well.

If such a disaster happens, both Don Muang- and Suvarnabhumi Airports will be totally flooded for many months, not to speak of the drama about shipping and fishing vessels, power supply, drinking water, distribution and much MUCH more!!!

The majority of the economy will come to a total and complete stillstand

Dams in The Netherlands:

http://www.deltawerk...taworks/23.html

Actual parts of the finished dams in bad weather; the locks can be opened during normal weather.

You'll pardon me for wondering where ~6000m³ /sec are intended to go with the mouth closed.

I think Plod is working on his giant sponge design as we speak. This will also have a separate budget.

Thailand already has a giant sponge........ the RTP.

[Robby nz]

I live a bit upstreas from BKK and here the river was at 13.5 m during the worst of the floods. Now it is very low at 1.5 m, the lowest I have seen it and we havent even got to the hot season.

The problem was that all that excess water could not drain away.

The aforementioned polly should explain how blocking the river mouth will help all that water to get to the sea where it must end up.

[ratcatcher]

I was reminded of the classic Dylan song from nearly 50 years ago and it still rings true.

Times

Come gather 'round people

Wherever you roam

And admit that the waters

Around you have grown

And accept it that soon

You'll be drenched to the bone

If your time to you

Is worth savin'

Then you better start swimmin'

Or you'll sink like a stone

For the times they are a-changin'.

http://www.azlyrics....reachangin.html

[drdoom6996]

Once the water is blocked by the dam, where ever you put the dam, where will the water go then. You can't just block it. The water must go somewhere else. Thailand already has too many dams blacking too much water.

[monkeycountry]

Replace the word "dam" with "storm surge barrier" or similar, then the idea is fine. Build a gate system at the mouth of the river, and install a series of giant pumps next to the gates (yes pumps large enough do already exist). Then when the tide is high and the river is flooding at the same time, simply close the gates, and pump water from the river into the sea. The electric bill will be large, but since it is only a few days or weeks a year, that does not matter much.

This method works, and it has already been done in both the US and in europe. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, and certainly no reason to continue with the "water pushing machines" they invented during the last flood, and which any engineer worth his salt, or just a person with common sense, could have told the government would not work at all!

[WAERTH]

It is clear most of the people in this thread have not lived in the Netherlands. Judging on their comments. People shouldn't look at the "Deltawerken" article on Wikipedia alone as that is just a part of the system. Please read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flood_control_in_the_Netherlands to inform yourself before saying stupid things about flood control.

The Dutch system wasn't just designed to keep the sea out. Three major European rivers all converge in the Dutch "Delta" (hence the name ..... deltaworks). The Dutch system was build as an integrated whole. Updating everything from Riverdikes to Seabarriers and integrating it as one plan to keep the water out of our swampy delta.

Bangkok and the Netherlands have the same problem. Ground that recedes. Being build in a swamp and at least one major river running through it. The similarities are huge.

Now in the Netherlands we tackled it with an integrated plan, which took us 60 years! (if you do not count the 2000 years of fighting against the water previously done!) And we are still not convinced we are 100% save. So it is a constantly evolving plan and constantly upgraded.

Now what the Thais want to do looks interesting and is feasible. If they are willing to plan it as an integrated plan and not just a "lets build a dam plan" and then do nothing else. This is where I believe the Thais will fail as they will never commit themselves to this. It doesn't just take 1 project it takes a commitment of generations to build a system to keep the feet dry!

W

[hellodolly]

I'm not a hydrologist, but as a recreational fisherman I have noticed that when a river is in spate the tide may be increasing levels while the flow is still seaward. As spring tides seem to coincide with high flows in the Chao Phraya, I wonder if shutting the mouth of the river at such times would be a good idea.

It definitely is and it will be the ONLY possibility to prevent Bangkok from a major and utter horrible disaster!

I have been warning since many years that the greatest danger for Bangkok is NOT just the excessive water masses from up north but the high spring tide at the same time during a dangerous storm, combined with a full moon!

That only happens in rare weather conditions but the possibility is real.

We have seen the same (several times during the ages) in The Netherlands in 1953 and New Orleans in 2005 by Hurricane Katrina as an example!

I know that many will say that Thailand doesn't have hurricanes but a heavy SE storm, blowing the enormous amounts of waters from the Gulf into the mouth of the Chao Phraya River, combined with high tide AND huge amounts of water coming from up north will effect in a horrible disaster, totally destroying large parts of Bangkok and surroundings!

That's why I fully support the plans to build a dam; the sooner the better but of course in Thailands' case, in combination with bridges, water reservoirs up north and channelling systems for oversupply of water from up north.

The Netherlands completed such dams already and New Orleans is in the process of doing and completing dams and it's the only solution for Bangkok as well.

If such a disaster happens, both Don Muang- and Suvarnabhumi Airports will be totally flooded for many months, not to speak of the drama about shipping and fishing vessels, power supply, drinking water, distribution and much MUCH more!!!

The majority of the economy will come to a total and complete stillstand

Dams in The Netherlands:

http://www.deltawerk...taworks/23.html

Actual parts of the finished dams in bad weather; the locks can be opened during normal weather.

I take it you live in Bangkok.

[OzMick]

Replace the word "dam" with "storm surge barrier" or similar, then the idea is fine. Build a gate system at the mouth of the river, and install a series of giant pumps next to the gates (yes pumps large enough do already exist). Then when the tide is high and the river is flooding at the same time, simply close the gates, and pump water from the river into the sea. The electric bill will be large, but since it is only a few days or weeks a year, that does not matter much.

This method works, and it has already been done in both the US and in europe. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, and certainly no reason to continue with the "water pushing machines" they invented during the last flood, and which any engineer worth his salt, or just a person with common sense, could have told the government would not work at all!

Do you have any idea of the amount of electrical energy required? Where does it come from - the Chinese nuclear power station(s) mentioned early perhaps? What do you do with all that generating capacity for the rest of the year?

[quiksilva]

I am not a huge fan of Plodprasop by any means, but this is not such a bad idea.

Something like the Thames barrier would be quite suitable. It's designed to prevent floods that are caused by a combination of high tides / storm surges, together with higher than usual river flows.

http://en.wikipedia..../Thames_Barrier

Edited January 8, 2013 by quiksilva

[mic59]

I'm not a hydrologist, but as a recreational fisherman I have noticed that when a river is in spate the tide may be increasing levels while the flow is still seaward. As spring tides seem to coincide with high flows in the Chao Phraya, I wonder if shutting the mouth of the river at such times would be a good idea.

It definitely is and it will be the ONLY possibility to prevent Bangkok from a major and utter horrible disaster!

I have been warning since many years that the greatest danger for Bangkok is NOT just the excessive water masses from up north but the high spring tide at the same time during a dangerous storm, combined with a full moon!

That only happens in rare weather conditions but the possibility is real.

We have seen the same (several times during the ages) in The Netherlands in 1953 and New Orleans in 2005 by Hurricane Katrina as an example!

I know that many will say that Thailand doesn't have hurricanes but a heavy SE storm, blowing the enormous amounts of waters from the Gulf into the mouth of the Chao Phraya River, combined with high tide AND huge amounts of water coming from up north will effect in a horrible disaster, totally destroying large parts of Bangkok and surroundings!

That's why I fully support the plans to build a dam; the sooner the better but of course in Thailands' case, in combination with bridges, water reservoirs up north and channelling systems for oversupply of water from up north.

The Netherlands completed such dams already and New Orleans is in the process of doing and completing dams and it's the only solution for Bangkok as well.

If such a disaster happens, both Don Muang- and Suvarnabhumi Airports will be totally flooded for many months, not to speak of the drama about shipping and fishing vessels, power supply, drinking water, distribution and much MUCH more!!!

The majority of the economy will come to a total and complete stillstand

Dams in The Netherlands:

http://www.deltawerk...taworks/23.html

Actual parts of the finished dams in bad weather; the locks can be opened during normal weather.

You'll pardon me for wondering where ~6000m³ /sec are intended to go with the mouth closed.

I think Plod is working on his giant sponge design as we speak. This will also have a separate budget.

This is an exceptionally valid comment. The recent flood in Queensland, Australia caused massive loss of property and life and was due in the main to the dam above the towns it was meant to protect. There is no point in having a dam unless it is properly administered. What happened in Queensland was that the dam was allowed to get to 140% capacity before water was released. When this was done the overflow was too much to be released safely and sped down the river at a great rate. When discussing dam capacity, 100% is not a full reservoir but what is considered the highest level where water should be released, most dams release water at 85%. With the speed water can flow into any river in Thailand they may find it safe to release water into overflows at as low as 70%.

[hellodolly]

It is clear most of the people in this thread have not lived in the Netherlands. Judging on their comments. People shouldn't look at the "Deltawerken" article on Wikipedia alone as that is just a part of the system. Please read: http://en.wikipedia....the_Netherlands to inform yourself before saying stupid things about flood control.

The Dutch system wasn't just designed to keep the sea out. Three major European rivers all converge in the Dutch "Delta" (hence the name ..... deltaworks). The Dutch system was build as an integrated whole. Updating everything from Riverdikes to Seabarriers and integrating it as one plan to keep the water out of our swampy delta.

Bangkok and the Netherlands have the same problem. Ground that recedes. Being build in a swamp and at least one major river running through it. The similarities are huge.

Now in the Netherlands we tackled it with an integrated plan, which took us 60 years! (if you do not count the 2000 years of fighting against the water previously done!) And we are still not convinced we are 100% save. So it is a constantly evolving plan and constantly upgraded.

Now what the Thais want to do looks interesting and is feasible. If they are willing to plan it as an integrated plan and not just a "lets build a dam plan" and then do nothing else. This is where I believe the Thais will fail as they will never commit themselves to this. It doesn't just take 1 project it takes a commitment of generations to build a system to keep the feet dry!

W

You are right on. It took professionals 6 years and now we have a politician with a plan to do it before the next election.

What Thailand needs is a dam in Plodprasop Suraswadi mouth. There is already one in another part of his head. It even has a name the initials are TSM the M is for money.

[xkmasada]

Don't you hate how the "elite" are just worried about protecting the shopping centres in Bangkok.

I'm just stunned that he is apparently abandoning his plan for relying on a thousand boat propellers to control the raging river.

Although it is understandable that this elite billionaire could be enticed to change plans in light of the "hundreds of billions baht" that can be earmarked for his latest great idea.

.

Be very very careful, Foreigner, if you want to stay in Thailand, or Thai, if you want to stay out of jail.

The thousand boat propellers was ...'s idea. A brilliant and innovative piece of hydrological engineering. You don't criticize genius like that. You can't criticize genius like that.

[Lobber]

I feel a study visit to the UK & Europe is called for LMFAO!!

Edited January 8, 2013 by Lobber

[theajarn]

Wow, and I thought moving the capital was a bad idea.

After billions and billions of baht 'required' to build a block of concrete with substandard materials, perhaps moving the capital ain't so bad afterall.

Perhaps choose an area that doesn't flood and isn't all swampland?

[Estrada]

WTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFFF Where do they want to place the dam??? On Baiyoke Sky Tower???

Stupid is as stupid does or in other words:

"We protect Bangkok city, by sh*****loading more on the other provinces, have a nice day, province-scum!!!!"

BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK they know nothing else.

But we all know blocking the water isn't the answer

You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage.

Don't say "We all know blocking the water isn't the answer" most of us are not stupid. You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage. blocking the water at exceptionally high tides which coincide with excessive rains and storm surges to prevent disasterous flooding.

The dam is a barrage across the entrance from the sea at the mouth of the Chao Phraya River. This barrage is similar to the Thames barrier in London, and in those in Holland. Bangkok continues to sink, and already 100's of sq. kms of land around the mouth of the river on the west side has already been lost including several villages. Unless the barrage is built Bangkok will be under water every year by 2020.

Japanese, Dutch and British experts including myself have recommended this solution for many years and was to have gone ahead in 2006 but the coup stopped work on the final phases of the King's Master Plan to prevent flooding in Bangkok and its environs. The barrage will only be closed under exceptional circumstances to prevent Bangkok being flooded by exceptionally high tides. Most of Bangkok is less than 2 metres above mean sea level as it is. Pictures and explanations are available on the internet.

Remember also that Bangkok is known as the Venice of the East because it was built on swamp land on the mouth of a river and is much like Venice in Italy. Venice also continues to sink and currently floods regularly as they still have not built a barrage.

[Estrada]

One intelligent post out of nineteen....................

Thank you LaoPo.

Pity about the rest of you.

Perhaps YOU can tell me where ~6000m³ /sec of water will go when the mouth of the river is closed.

Don't be silly, the Chaophrya cannot handle ~6000m³ /sec of water weren't you here during the Great Flood? It can only handle 25% of that flow without causing floods. That is why the bypasses and flood ways have to be built above Bangkok to hanlde the excessive flows. The tidal barrier is for the other problem which causes flooding during excessively high tides, which occur for a few hours several times a year.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Estrada

[hellodolly]

WTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFFF Where do they want to place the dam??? On Baiyoke Sky Tower???

Stupid is as stupid does or in other words:

"We protect Bangkok city, by sh*****loading more on the other provinces, have a nice day, province-scum!!!!"

BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK they know nothing else.

But we all know blocking the water isn't the answer

You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage.

Don't say "We all know blocking the water isn't the answer" most of us are not stupid. You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage. blocking the water at exceptionally high tides which coincide with excessive rains and storm surges to prevent disasterous flooding.

The dam is a barrage across the entrance from the sea at the mouth of the Chao Phraya River. This barrage is similar to the Thames barrier in London, and in those in Holland. Bangkok continues to sink, and already 100's of sq. kms of land around the mouth of the river on the west side has already been lost including several villages. Unless the barrage is built Bangkok will be under water every year by 2020.

Japanese, Dutch and British experts including myself have recommended this solution for many years and was to have gone ahead in 2006 but the coup stopped work on the final phases of the King's Master Plan to prevent flooding in Bangkok and its environs. The barrage will only be closed under exceptional circumstances to prevent Bangkok being flooded by exceptionally high tides. Most of Bangkok is less than 2 metres above mean sea level as it is. Pictures and explanations are available on the internet.

Remember also that Bangkok is known as the Venice of the East because it was built on swamp land on the mouth of a river and is much like Venice in Italy. Venice also continues to sink and currently floods regularly as they still have not built a barrage.

You are trying to make it sound like it is not a problem. Did you miss the post that says it took Holland 60 years and it is far more involved than keeping the sea out. How many years has Venice been working on their sea wall.

I have no idea what the problem in London is or was but I would bet that it is not on the delta for such a huge watershed as Bangkok is.

You may have been telling them for years but the reality is that The Dutch offered to help and were refused. You like to slam the coup. Well for your information Thaksin had asked Israel for help which later his government refused the advice of. If you had any knowledge of the situation you would know that having it all done by August 2015 ( I believe that is the next election could be 2016) is an impossibility. Just ask the Dutch the Italians the Japanese and the English.

[Moruya]

WTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFFF Where do they want to place the dam??? On Baiyoke Sky Tower???

Stupid is as stupid does or in other words:

"We protect Bangkok city, by sh*****loading more on the other provinces, have a nice day, province-scum!!!!"

BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK they know nothing else.

But we all know blocking the water isn't the answer

You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage.

Don't say "We all know blocking the water isn't the answer" most of us are not stupid. You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage. blocking the water at exceptionally high tides which coincide with excessive rains and storm surges to prevent disasterous flooding.

The dam is a barrage across the entrance from the sea at the mouth of the Chao Phraya River. This barrage is similar to the Thames barrier in London, and in those in Holland. Bangkok continues to sink, and already 100's of sq. kms of land around the mouth of the river on the west side has already been lost including several villages. Unless the barrage is built Bangkok will be under water every year by 2020.

Japanese, Dutch and British experts including myself have recommended this solution for many years and was to have gone ahead in 2006 but the coup stopped work on the final phases of the King's Master Plan to prevent flooding in Bangkok and its environs. The barrage will only be closed under exceptional circumstances to prevent Bangkok being flooded by exceptionally high tides. Most of Bangkok is less than 2 metres above mean sea level as it is. Pictures and explanations are available on the internet.

Remember also that Bangkok is known as the Venice of the East because it was built on swamp land on the mouth of a river and is much like Venice in Italy. Venice also continues to sink and currently floods regularly as they still have not built a barrage.

Bangkok and the areas to the south are very flat and sloping very gently towards the GoS - water made them that way.

Building a 1.3km closable barrier will just push the high tides around the sides.

[monkeycountry]

Replace the word "dam" with "storm surge barrier" or similar, then the idea is fine. Build a gate system at the mouth of the river, and install a series of giant pumps next to the gates (yes pumps large enough do already exist). Then when the tide is high and the river is flooding at the same time, simply close the gates, and pump water from the river into the sea. The electric bill will be large, but since it is only a few days or weeks a year, that does not matter much.

This method works, and it has already been done in both the US and in europe. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, and certainly no reason to continue with the "water pushing machines" they invented during the last flood, and which any engineer worth his salt, or just a person with common sense, could have told the government would not work at all!

Do you have any idea of the amount of electrical energy required? Where does it come from - the Chinese nuclear power station(s) mentioned early perhaps? What do you do with all that generating capacity for the rest of the year?

Around 10 New Orleans size pumps will do the trick, and they are each equipped with 5,000 hp diesel generators, which is the cheapest solution when they are not supposed to run all year. Yes, both the pumps and the diesel are expensive, but still cheaper than the losses incurred when Bangkok is flooded, especially when considering the pumps will last for many years, and will potentially save Bangkok from many floods.

Remember also we know in advance when floods will come and when the tide is high, so we can both empty the dams upriver in advance, and use the pumps to lower the level in the river well in advance of the floods, making the whole riverbassin one giant buffer. Calculating a bit on this would probably mean we could do with fewer pumps, thus lowering the cost.

[monkeycountry]

WTTTTTTFFFFFFFFFFFF Where do they want to place the dam??? On Baiyoke Sky Tower???

Stupid is as stupid does or in other words:

"We protect Bangkok city, by sh*****loading more on the other provinces, have a nice day, province-scum!!!!"

BLOCK BLOCK BLOCK they know nothing else.

But we all know blocking the water isn't the answer

You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage.

Don't say "We all know blocking the water isn't the answer" most of us are not stupid. You don't understand, it is not a dam per se, but a tidal barrage. blocking the water at exceptionally high tides which coincide with excessive rains and storm surges to prevent disasterous flooding.

The dam is a barrage across the entrance from the sea at the mouth of the Chao Phraya River. This barrage is similar to the Thames barrier in London, and in those in Holland. Bangkok continues to sink, and already 100's of sq. kms of land around the mouth of the river on the west side has already been lost including several villages. Unless the barrage is built Bangkok will be under water every year by 2020.

Japanese, Dutch and British experts including myself have recommended this solution for many years and was to have gone ahead in 2006 but the coup stopped work on the final phases of the King's Master Plan to prevent flooding in Bangkok and its environs. The barrage will only be closed under exceptional circumstances to prevent Bangkok being flooded by exceptionally high tides. Most of Bangkok is less than 2 metres above mean sea level as it is. Pictures and explanations are available on the internet.

Remember also that Bangkok is known as the Venice of the East because it was built on swamp land on the mouth of a river and is much like Venice in Italy. Venice also continues to sink and currently floods regularly as they still have not built a barrage.

Bangkok and the areas to the south are very flat and sloping very gently towards the GoS - water made them that way.

Building a 1.3km closable barrier will just push the high tides around the sides.

True, but since the tide is not that high, the land part of the barrier only have to be a few meters high, if that, and can therefore easily be built for many kilometers on either side.

[belidofan]

Don't you hate how the "elite" are just worried about protecting the shopping centres in Bangkok.

'Why Bother" to post here when you have nothing to say.....stay on topic, be contructive in your comments or just keep it shut....totally brainless!

[whybother]

Don't you hate how the "elite" are just worried about protecting the shopping centres in Bangkok.

'Why Bother" to post here when you have nothing to say.....stay on topic, be contructive in your comments or just keep it shut....totally brainless!

Ditto.

edit: besides that, I thought it WAS saying something. So many people complained about how Bangkok was saved to protect the "elite" and their shopping centres. I was making fun of that.

Edited January 8, 2013 by whybother