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Thai Finance Minister Rejects Extra Loans For Rice Pledging Scheme


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Thai finance minister rejects extra loans for rice pledging scheme

By Digital Media

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BANGKOK, Jan 10 – Deputy Prime Minister/Finance Minister Kittiratt Na-Ranong has stood firm that the government’s loan ceiling of Bt150 billion for the highly-criticised rice pledging scheme and the Bt480 billion loan limits for state enterprises will not be expanded.

He said the rice pledging scheme has used up the available loans and the government disagreed with some state enterprises seeking additional loans to finance the programme. The state enterprises’ Bt480 billion in loans represent 20 per cent of the national expenditure – the maximum permitted by law.

Urging a speedy release of rice under the plan to enable cash flow, Mr Kittirat said government agencies responsible for the rice pledging scheme should effectively manage revenue and expense under the government-approved Bt240 billion fund for the 2012/2013 harvest year.

The Bank of Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives (BAAC) said it has issued Bt113 billion loans for the purchase of 7.5 million tonnes of rice in the 2012/2013 harvest year as it awaits a new injection of Bt150 billion from the Finance Ministry.

Wanchai Siriwatanatrakul, director of the BAAC State Policy Department, said the Finance Ministry has so far forwarded Bt55 billion loans to the BAAC for the rice programme and the balance will be gradually handed over to the BAAC.

He said the Commerce Ministry has informed the BAAC that it will pay Bt20 billion to the bank soon, adding that a total of Bt85 billion should be fully paid to the bank by the end of this year. (MCOT online news)

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-- TNA 2013-01-10

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Quick!!!....the laws must be changed to get more funds to enable more rice to be purchased....there are important people that have built wondeful new storage facilities for this scheme......otherwise...what are we gonna do?????

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Oh woooops. The cash is all used up.

Now this may well be the straw that breaks the camels back, because there is a shed load of new crop rice that will have been planned to be pledged. How the hell are they going to fund the purchase? They screwed the pooch when they didn't put a very strict quota in. It's one thing to pay above the rate, its another thing to not put a limit on the volume.

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"Urging a speedy release of rice under the plan to enable cash flow"

Does this mean the moment is there, the price is right, the Thai government will make a huge profit of the sale of rice?

We, poor consumers in Thailand, are looking forward to lower prices though.

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Quick!!!....the laws must be changed to get more funds to enable more rice to be purchased....there are important people that have built wondeful new storage facilities for this scheme......otherwise...what are we gonna do?????

The government has a budget of Bt 50 billion/year for storage and handling charge.thumbsup.gif

Edited by Nickymaster
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"Urging a speedy release of rice under the plan to enable cash flow"

Does this mean the moment is there, the price is right, the Thai government will make a huge profit of the sale of rice?

We, poor consumers in Thailand, are looking forward to lower prices though.

A huge profit? No. Any profit? not very likely. Huge loss? likely. Lower consumer prices? Doubtful. Edited by dcutman
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^#12 ricardo

Probably more a matter of planning, budgetting, three-months notes, interest, etc., etc. For governments scheduling payments is important, sometimes even profitable, mostly lawful or dictated by law.

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Why is the Finance Ministry unable to send the Bank the rest of the money it owes ?

Too many populist schemes paying-out, not enough tax coming-in, or what ? wink.png

It always intrigues me when quite sensible people sound off about populist measures as though they were by definition a bad thing..By this I don't mean that corruption shouldn't be rooted out or half thought schemes shouldn't be abandoned.I certainly have reservations about the rice price support policy but it seems to me that the key objective of such schemes is often overlooked, namely to improve the lot of the rice farmers and reduce inequality.Thai Visa being what it is, there will be those that say it's more about politicians courting the uneducated majority - though frankly that's what politicians do everywhere.I don't buy the fatuous argument that democracy only works when there is a large middle class.The position of Thailand using the standard Gini coefficient comparison is quite appalling as the following schedule makes clerar:

https://www.cia.gov/...r/2172rank.html

It's completely received wisdom among my Bangkok (mainly) Sino Thai friends and colleagues that even though the Democrats also pursued populist measures, the greatest sin of the current government was its courting of rural voters with a something for nothing approach.I actually had a discussion recently on the subject - cue for many pointless analogies of teaching someone to fish rather than providing them with a fish supper.I pointed out that in reality they were the ones that had been courted with populist measures for decades with the extraordinary skewed development expenditure on urban schools, hospitals and infrastructure at the expense of the rural majority.The respons? A long bewildered silence and then someone piped up. "Thai politics are very complicated Khun Jayboy.We do appreciate that they are sometimes hard to understand"

Its a bit like any policy aimed at social welfare immediately becoming "communist" in nature, and by definition, going to inevitably cause the country irreparable damage, when the mess that that particular country is in, was actually caused almost entirely, by unfettered capitalism.

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Why is the Finance Ministry unable to send the Bank the rest of the money it owes ?

Too many populist schemes paying-out, not enough tax coming-in, or what ? wink.png

It always intrigues me when quite sensible people sound off about populist measures as though they were by definition a bad thing..By this I don't mean that corruption shouldn't be rooted out or half thought schemes shouldn't be abandoned.I certainly have reservations about the rice price support policy but it seems to me that the key objective of such schemes is often overlooked, namely to improve the lot of the rice farmers and reduce inequality.Thai Visa being what it is, there will be those that say it's more about politicians courting the uneducated majority - though frankly that's what politicians do everywhere.I don't buy the fatuous argument that democracy only works when there is a large middle class.The position of Thailand using the standard Gini coefficient comparison is quite appalling as the following schedule makes clerar:

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2172rank.html

It's completely received wisdom among my Bangkok (mainly) Sino Thai friends and colleagues that even though the Democrats also pursued populist measures, the greatest sin of the current government was its courting of rural voters with a something for nothing approach.I actually had a discussion recently on the subject - cue for many pointless analogies of teaching someone to fish rather than providing them with a fish supper.I pointed out that in reality they were the ones that had been courted with populist measures for decades with the extraordinary skewed development expenditure on urban schools, hospitals and infrastructure at the expense of the rural majority.The respons? A long bewildered silence and then someone piped up. "Thai politics are very complicated Khun Jayboy.We do appreciate that they are sometimes hard to understand"

I hate to follow a lengthy, concise and well considered post with such a short reply but I'm using my phone and the car is bumpy.

I am sure almost all in the country would have preferred the massive funds to have been spent on agricultural colleges and machinery to improve efficiency rather than throwing it largely to the middle and upper classes and partly to the farmer to do the same thing he has for centuries

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I'm all for raising the income level of poor farmers (or any poor worker for that matter). The big question is this scheme going to do that?

It may do so temporarily &, if it was better thought out, actually target those in need. But this scheme is blanket in nature & gives subsidies to rich & middle class farmers, land owners, rice millers & other middlemen, as well as corrupt buddies. It is a short-term populist scheme that ignores improving rice yields, crop rotation as well as having no benefit to consumers. I'll ignore the cost for now.

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Why is the Finance Ministry unable to send the Bank the rest of the money it owes ?

Too many populist schemes paying-out, not enough tax coming-in, or what ? wink.png

It always intrigues me when quite sensible people sound off about populist measures as though they were by definition a bad thing..By this I don't mean that corruption shouldn't be rooted out or half thought schemes shouldn't be abandoned.I certainly have reservations about the rice price support policy but it seems to me that the key objective of such schemes is often overlooked, namely to improve the lot of the rice farmers and reduce inequality.Thai Visa being what it is, there will be those that say it's more about politicians courting the uneducated majority - though frankly that's what politicians do everywhere.I don't buy the fatuous argument that democracy only works when there is a large middle class.The position of Thailand using the standard Gini coefficient comparison is quite appalling as the following schedule makes clerar:

https://www.cia.gov/...r/2172rank.html

It's completely received wisdom among my Bangkok (mainly) Sino Thai friends and colleagues that even though the Democrats also pursued populist measures, the greatest sin of the current government was its courting of rural voters with a something for nothing approach.I actually had a discussion recently on the subject - cue for many pointless analogies of teaching someone to fish rather than providing them with a fish supper.I pointed out that in reality they were the ones that had been courted with populist measures for decades with the extraordinary skewed development expenditure on urban schools, hospitals and infrastructure at the expense of the rural majority.The respons? A long bewildered silence and then someone piped up. "Thai politics are very complicated Khun Jayboy.We do appreciate that they are sometimes hard to understand"

Its a bit like any policy aimed at social welfare immediately becoming "communist" in nature, and by definition, going to inevitably cause the country irreparable damage, when the mess that that particular country is in, was actually caused almost entirely, by unfettered capitalism.

Hmm unfettered capitalism. Well I am not sure about that - I would say the whole mess the country is in has come about from unfettered corruption. And as an aside I believe the vast majority of the cash handouts have benefitted the largest rice field landowners, the millers and the middlemen as well as the warehouse builders, rice recyclers (buying rice at a discount from the scheme and reselling it back - again and again) and several other schemes of corruption. As altruistic the benefits have been spun to be the reality is absolutely not what the government is spouting. It is just a means of raping the treasury by the politicians and their friends. Show me how many POOR farmers have benefited from this scheme in any meaningful way. I think they are few and far between.

A friend of mine bought a 1/3rd share in a milling plant - cost for everything around 250 million baht. I expressed surprise and asked how long it would take for him to recoup his investment. He said under this scheme it will take maybe six months or a little longer. He likewise has friends who have built warehouses and are renting the space back for rice storage - time to recoup investment around 18 months I was told.

Normal business does not make profits like that and even if he was being optimistic I think it is a huge indicator of where the profits from this scheme are ending up - obviously my friend is well connected and fairly rich and strangely apolitical - he can make money no matter who is in power as he courts both sides ha ha ha

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Why is the Finance Ministry unable to send the Bank the rest of the money it owes ?

Too many populist schemes paying-out, not enough tax coming-in, or what ? wink.png

I would suggest the reason is there are too many fat pigges at the trough sucking up all the money. Sooner than later the trough runs dry.
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Why is the Finance Ministry unable to send the Bank the rest of the money it owes ?

Too many populist schemes paying-out, not enough tax coming-in, or what ? wink.png

It always intrigues me when quite sensible people sound off about populist measures as though they were by definition a bad thing..By this I don't mean that corruption shouldn't be rooted out or half thought schemes shouldn't be abandoned.I certainly have reservations about the rice price support policy but it seems to me that the key objective of such schemes is often overlooked, namely to improve the lot of the rice farmers and reduce inequality.Thai Visa being what it is, there will be those that say it's more about politicians courting the uneducated majority - though frankly that's what politicians do everywhere.I don't buy the fatuous argument that democracy only works when there is a large middle class.The position of Thailand using the standard Gini coefficient comparison is quite appalling as the following schedule makes clerar:

https://www.cia.gov/...r/2172rank.html

It's completely received wisdom among my Bangkok (mainly) Sino Thai friends and colleagues that even though the Democrats also pursued populist measures, the greatest sin of the current government was its courting of rural voters with a something for nothing approach.I actually had a discussion recently on the subject - cue for many pointless analogies of teaching someone to fish rather than providing them with a fish supper.I pointed out that in reality they were the ones that had been courted with populist measures for decades with the extraordinary skewed development expenditure on urban schools, hospitals and infrastructure at the expense of the rural majority.The respons? A long bewildered silence and then someone piped up. "Thai politics are very complicated Khun Jayboy.We do appreciate that they are sometimes hard to understand"

Sorry if my post was unclear. I'm not over-worried solely by the populist nature of the schemes.

My concern is more that the Finance Ministry seems to be very slow to reimburse the (government established/backed I believe) BAAB, that the government also recently proposed to borrow a couple of trillion Baht to cover current-spending, and yet they claim that all their policies are affordable. While the Finance Minister confesses to telling 'white-lies' at times.

The timing of the 113-Billion-Baht loans (for the current year alone) by BAAC under the rice-scheme were predictable, yet the funding from the Ministry appears delayed, and only slowly trickling in. Why is that ?

"The balance will gradually be handed over" and "Urging a speedy release of rice under the plan to enable cashflow" from the OP ? This sounds almost like an old-fashioned cash-flow problem to me, wearing my 'cautious accountant hat' !

And some of these policies are planned to continue for years to come, especially the tablet-computers & rice-scheme, and unlike one-off emergencies such as the flood-relief for example.

Meanwhile the corporate-tax & income-tax has been cut, the car-relief rebates are also due to start paying-out, none of those are positive for the government's cashflow. One hopes that someone is keeping a close eye on what they're doing.

Edited by Ricardo
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Why is the Finance Ministry unable to send the Bank the rest of the money it owes ?

Too many populist schemes paying-out, not enough tax coming-in, or what ? wink.png

It always intrigues me when quite sensible people sound off about populist measures as though they were by definition a bad thing..By this I don't mean that corruption shouldn't be rooted out or half thought schemes shouldn't be abandoned.I certainly have reservations about the rice price support policy but it seems to me that the key objective of such schemes is often overlooked, namely to improve the lot of the rice farmers and reduce inequality.Thai Visa being what it is, there will be those that say it's more about politicians courting the uneducated majority - though frankly that's what politicians do everywhere.I don't buy the fatuous argument that democracy only works when there is a large middle class.The position of Thailand using the standard Gini coefficient comparison is quite appalling as the following schedule makes clerar:

https://www.cia.gov/...r/2172rank.html

It's completely received wisdom among my Bangkok (mainly) Sino Thai friends and colleagues that even though the Democrats also pursued populist measures, the greatest sin of the current government was its courting of rural voters with a something for nothing approach.I actually had a discussion recently on the subject - cue for many pointless analogies of teaching someone to fish rather than providing them with a fish supper.I pointed out that in reality they were the ones that had been courted with populist measures for decades with the extraordinary skewed development expenditure on urban schools, hospitals and infrastructure at the expense of the rural majority.The respons? A long bewildered silence and then someone piped up. "Thai politics are very complicated Khun Jayboy.We do appreciate that they are sometimes hard to understand"

If the key objective is to improve the lot of poor farmers, the rice scam is a miserable and very expensive failure. That it is continued even after that failure is obvious, without adjustment, is an indicator that the stated aim is merely camouflage.

In almost all countries urban infrastructure spending far exceeds rural for one important reason - efficiency. It is available to many more citizens.

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"Urging a speedy release of rice under the plan to enable cash flow"

Does this mean the moment is there, the price is right, the Thai government will make a huge profit of the sale of rice?

We, poor consumers in Thailand, are looking forward to lower prices though.

Huh? You want lower prices on rice? The average price for a bowl of the white stuff when I go out for a meal in Hua Hin ranges from 15 to 25 baht depending upon the restaurant. I think I splurged on the garlic fried rice at 45 (or was it 60 baht) at the BBQ place in Market Village.

This is hardly a high price. How much rice are you eating that it causes such a dent in your wallet? Seriously, if you ate the quantity needed to cause such a financial impact, I dare say you would be quite the plump fellow to the point someone might mistake you for one of your teutonic neighnours. Unless, you have fallen victim to the addictive power of nasi goreng, in which case, I shall show empathy.

A helpful tip for TVFers when they wish to recognize Dutch volk - they are usually tall and lanky and often have an impish sexy grin, with some mayonnaise dribble on the side of the mouth. Not big rice eaters, otherwise they would be fatties and such a condition is not permitted. I believe there is some sort of law on the books, that the citizenship requirement is to be tall and thin and of course seductively sexy - which causes me to question your credentials. If you eat that much rice, your sexiness quotient will decrease. Be warned.

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“Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pound ought and six, result misery.”

Perhaps the good finance minister has taken a lead from Mr. Micawbers predicament and has last realised that the road to ruin is not the road to take.

Well we can but live in hope can't we?cheesy.gifcheesy.gif

Edited by siampolee
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Good to see some common sense fro a PTP cabinet minister.

A cabinet minister who though having common sense and a good grasp of finance, will no doubt be soon moved to the Back Benches coffee1.gif

Indeed.

Can't have the Finance Minister demanding that they need to sell some of the rice-mountain, to generate some much-needed cash, until the appropriate dummy-companies are all set-up by the right people, to buy it at an appropriate discount, and feed it back into the system ! rolleyes.gif

Of course it's probably all been sold already, in government-to-government deals, right ?

Which is why it's been shipped & invoiced & paid-for. So what's his problem, then ? wink.png

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