Embattled Brit Lee Chestnutt Forced To Stay In Thailand

[Asiantravel]

@Nisa I think you deserve a post devoted to you.

Your tenacity at 'outing' Lee Chestnutt goes beyond a dogs love for a bone and has more passion than a jilted lover seeking revenge. Your understanding of this case it seems is better that the accused and your grasp of Thai law exceeds that of most lawyers. You have the time and patients to spend on tracking this scoundrel Chestnutt that would shame a Sunday tabloid reporter!

Whilst lesser mortals would of skulked off to liked their battered ego's you come back time and time again with a superhuman ability to deflect all rational and logical criticizem against you.

Your determination to prove your point embodies all that defines today's forums. You are not some prepubescent boy hiding behind a keyboard nor are you some wanna be internet Mafia. No sir you are an elite warrior slaying mere mortals post after post.

Nissa I applaud you!

Info was already out there on another forum (not to mention he himself made the info available to the world) and what do you mean I outed him? He and his parents have claimed he cannot work and they are supporting him ... they went out of their way to contact the press and make these statements. Do you mean I outed him as possibly being dishonest to everyone who has read or viewed the stories of the case they have put out there? Would I be outing him too if I discovered and posted info about how he could leave the country during the trial if he posted bail too?

Nisa who’s interests exactly are you trying to defend and why? What is your agenda in going to all this trouble and trying to expose these things about the defendant?

Like I said in an earlier post, I would give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant because he has not been found guilty plus based on my experience of things while living here, but I am certainly keeping an open mind until all the facts come out.

You don't have an open mind one bit and it seems as though you will still be claiming the defendant is guilty long after he has returned to his home country!

Edited January 19, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Nisa]

@Nisa I think you deserve a post devoted to you.

Your tenacity at 'outing' Lee Chestnutt goes beyond a dogs love for a bone and has more passion than a jilted lover seeking revenge. Your understanding of this case it seems is better that the accused and your grasp of Thai law exceeds that of most lawyers. You have the time and patients to spend on tracking this scoundrel Chestnutt that would shame a Sunday tabloid reporter!

Whilst lesser mortals would of skulked off to liked their battered ego's you come back time and time again with a superhuman ability to deflect all rational and logical criticizem against you.

Your determination to prove your point embodies all that defines today's forums. You are not some prepubescent boy hiding behind a keyboard nor are you some wanna be internet Mafia. No sir you are an elite warrior slaying mere mortals post after post.

Nissa I applaud you!

Info was already out there on another forum (not to mention he himself made the info available to the world) and what do you mean I outed him? He and his parents have claimed he cannot work and they are supporting him ... they went out of their way to contact the press and make these statements. Do you mean I outed him as possibly being dishonest to everyone who has read or viewed the stories of the case they have put out there? Would I be outing him too if I discovered and posted info about how he could leave the country during the trial if he posted bail too?

Nisa who’s interests exactly are you trying to defend and why? What is your agenda in going to all this trouble and trying to expose these things about the defendant?

Like I said in an earlier post, I would give the benefit of the doubt to the defendant because he has not been found guilty plus based on my experience of things while living here, but I am certainly keeping an open mind until all the facts come out.

You don't have an open mind one bit and it seems as though you will still be claiming the defendant is guilty long after he has returned to his home country!

I have never said I thought the defendant was guilty of the crime and only said I thought he was stupid for allowing this to cause so much pain and financial loss to him and his family these past years. I've also stated I thought the landlord was an idiot too as well as the truth often being somewhere in between in this types of cases. But I know this is just too radical of a concept to grasp when it is a Thai and Westerner having a dispute.

However, after choosing to go to the press with this, the family has talked about financial and economic pain due to the defendant not being able to work for years and it appears this may not be the case and he has been capable of working and earning an income and is actually working and a business owner.

I not only find it relevant in terms of credibility but also relevant to his actual suffering over this versus what is claimed as well as relevant in considering if he is doing this out of principles unless principles simply mean doing what you think is okay despite the laws (if he is working illegally) as well as saying one think to the media and press that clearly is misleading. If you don't find it relevant in keeping an open mind then so be it.

Edit: also find it relevant the guy would have so much information online about himself working and owning this company online given he and his family chose to go to and speak to the press and say he hasn't been able to work and the family has been providing financial aid to him just so he can survive.

Also, his ex-landlord and roommate / partner appear to have not gone to the press and give their names and tell fibs -- so, not like we can dig too much verifiable info up on them.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Nisa

[A_Traveller]

The simple issue is that no one herein knows if the individual is working or not. The site is not that up to date if you look behind the scenes. The blog posts are nothing more than chats and the plug-in "business" is hardly earth shattering and they may well not even be written by him.

Equally given the range of activities clearly the site has more than a single active service provider and leaping to noxious conclusions is at best unhelpful. It is entirely possible to be an owner of a business [which may or may not be making a profit] and not be able to work here. The two are not mutually exclusive. It's like someone commenting herein that he was described as a chemical engineer [his degree] and a web designer [his business] as if this was somehow proof of a nefarious situation, silly isn't it?

Further such a site may generate a modest income with say activities outside Thailand. It is implied in the site that there is a physical, presumably representative, operation in the UK. Equally such sites are often effectively subcontractor resourced on a job by job basis .

What is intriguing is that some here despite modest claims about the landlord's actions [all he has to do is sign a paper or two and instruct a lawyer] seem to find the fact that an individual has been [twice] found not guilty to be somehow unacceptable. Odd that for allegedly the open minded.

As to coming to a settlement, given that the only offer discussed herein was to plead guilty which would have barred him from entering Thailand again, presumably after being at least deported, and severely impacted his ability to obtain legal permits to work in SE Asia, his preferred location, why should he acquiesce?

Equally if his family support him and allow him to fight in court the criminal accusations made against him to maintain his clean record, why not?

The real issues that this case highlights so graphically is the ease that the Thai system allows criminal charges to be created by "civilians", and that there is no "with prejudice" judgement here. For those who so not know such a judgement means that the case is over and it may not be appealed to a higher court. This case highlights an inequity within the system which should be addressed, but again it really only becomes seriously repressive when applied to a "guest" in the country. So I'll not hold my breath then.

Regards

Edit clarity and punctuation.

Edited January 19, 2013 by A_Traveller

[Thai at Heart]

A better discussion might be, why does a mere accusation prior to being found guilty, mean you can lose your work permit?

[Para]

A better discussion might be, why does a mere accusation prior to being found guilty, mean you can lose your work permit?

When arrested the first thing that happens is your passport is confiscated. Even if found not guilty at the criminal court if the judgement is appealed the passport is still kept. I am unsure of the situation of an existing work visa but am sure that even if he has/had one he still has to report to immigrations at certain intervals not least of which his visa would have to be renewed after 1 year.

No passport no (work) visa extension.

[Thai at Heart]

A better discussion might be, why does a mere accusation prior to being found guilty, mean you can lose your work permit?

When arrested the first thing that happens is your passport is confiscated. Even if found not guilty at the criminal court if the judgement is appealed the passport is still kept. I am unsure of the situation of an existing work visa but am sure that even if he has/had one he still has to report to immigrations at certain intervals not least of which his visa would have to be renewed after 1 year.

No passport no (work) visa extension.

It's a ridiculous situation, that whilst not guilty, your work visa and permit are canceled. Even more crazy, that you can be in overstay even when found not guilty.

Not that it appears that the system cares.

[Para]

It's a ridiculous situation, that whilst not guilty, your work visa and permit are canceled. Even more crazy, that you can be in overstay even when found not guilty.

Not that it appears that the system cares.

You think its bad looking in from the outside trust me its worse when you are stuck in the middle!

There is no such thing as innocent till proven guilty here its the other way around.

[Thai at Heart]

It's a ridiculous situation, that whilst not guilty, your work visa and permit are canceled. Even more crazy, that you can be in overstay even when found not guilty.

Not that it appears that the system cares.

You think its bad looking in from the outside trust me its worse when you are stuck in the middle!

There is no such thing as innocent till proven guilty here its the other way around.

Ironically, a Thai found guilty, is freed upon appeal with bail and is free to do as he likes.

Just this issue alone about losing your work permit is a small thing the Embassy can lobby about.

[Para]

Ironically, a Thai found guilty, is freed upon appeal with bail and is free to do as he likes.

Just this issue alone about losing your work permit is a small thing the Embassy can lobby about.

TiT my friend. Dual pricing not just at the tourist attraction but also at the court!

The FCO in BKK have ZERO interest in getting involved. Been there, seen it, tried it.

[Thai at Heart]

Ironically, a Thai found guilty, is freed upon appeal with bail and is free to do as he likes.

Just this issue alone about losing your work permit is a small thing the Embassy can lobby about.

TiT my friend. Dual pricing not just at the tourist attraction but also at the court!

The FCO in BKK have ZERO interest in getting involved. Been there, seen it, tried it.

I will bring it up.

Pm me

[Para]

I will bring it up.

Pm me

YGM!

[Arkady]

And why would somebody need an exit visa if the case had been cleared

Several years ago in Thailand, I was accused of a criminal act that I totally denied. But once you are accused and the charge registered, then you are blacklisted from leaving the country and are not allowed to work until the charge is resolved. Your visa renewals are at the whim of the immigration department, who can decide to extend or not to extend your visa for a few months, and can name the fee for that renewal.

Bear in mind that one is theoretically innocent until proven guilty....

In my case, the case dragged on for many months, with me unable to leave the country and unable to earn a wage. I had to finally cave in and settle out of court to a charge that I still totally denied.

Even after the case was completely settled, it still took 3 months to get my name removed from the blacklist computer so that I could leave the country.

It was after this personal experience of the corruption of some Thai police officers and officials that I resigned from my 6 years of volunteer work as a Tourist Police Officer and made long-term plans to relocate my businesses to Myanmar - a country where I now work.

Simon

It is a good point that foreigners working for the tourist police as volunteers might give some tourists the impression that Thai police are in some way respectable which is of course far from the case. Most of the volunteers are probably not respectable either and the majority are working illegally without work permits because the police like to demonstrate they are above the law, although the volunteers are not above the law. It seems a ridiculous system full of contradictions. Foreigners are better off giving the corrupt Thai police force and its hangers on a wide bearth.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Arkady

[Para]

Most of the volunteers are probably not respectable either and the majority are working illegally without work permits because the police like to demonstrate they are above the law, although the volunteers are not above the law. It seems a ridiculous system full of contradictions. Foreigners are better off giving the corrupt Thai police force and its hangers on a wide bearth.

http://www.pattayada...-drugs-dealing/

Norwegian Volunteer Police Arrested In Pattaya For Drugs Dealing

Pattaya, September 3,[PDN]: On the 3rd September 2009, John Johansen, an ex member of the Pattaya Foreign Police Volunteers, was arrested by police, charged with drugs and firearms offenses.

The 39 year old Norwegian was arrested in a sting operation organized by Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nongpong, Deputy Superintendent of The Office of The Narcotic Control Board and his team. At the time of his arrest Johansen had in his possession 40 grams of heroin, and a .38mm gun with 10 bullets. Police also confiscated his Honda motorbike, reg. no. 283 Chonburi.

Johansen, a long time (10 years) resident of Pattaya, was arrested at the El Paso restaurant located at 124/49-51 Moo. 10, South Pattaya, Nongprue.

Johansen has been operating a company providing visa, work permit and translation services in soi 13, besides running “Ingos” bar on Pattaya’s third road with a partner.

Police revealed that he had been supplying drugs to foreigners using his position in the Volunteer Police as a cover. He claimed he knew many police officers in Chonburi and bragged that no one would want to make a problem for him.

At 7:30 pm today (3rd September) the editor of PDN was notified by Mr. Howard Miller, the leader of the Volunteer Tourist Police, that Johansen had been sacked from his team about 6 months ago because it was discovered he had a dark past. Johansen has now been taken to the office of Narcotics Suppression Bureau for further processing.

PDN would like to assure its readers that we will be following the developments in this case closely and will provide updates as and when we receive them.

[Nisa]

Most of the volunteers are probably not respectable either and the majority are working illegally without work permits because the police like to demonstrate they are above the law, although the volunteers are not above the law. It seems a ridiculous system full of contradictions. Foreigners are better off giving the corrupt Thai police force and its hangers on a wide bearth.

http://www.pattayada...-drugs-dealing/

Norwegian Volunteer Police Arrested In Pattaya For Drugs Dealing

Pattaya, September 3,[PDN]: On the 3rd September 2009, John Johansen, an ex member of the Pattaya Foreign Police Volunteers, was arrested by police, charged with drugs and firearms offenses.

The 39 year old Norwegian was arrested in a sting operation organized by Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nongpong, Deputy Superintendent of The Office of The Narcotic Control Board and his team. At the time of his arrest Johansen had in his possession 40 grams of heroin, and a .38mm gun with 10 bullets. Police also confiscated his Honda motorbike, reg. no. 283 Chonburi.

Johansen, a long time (10 years) resident of Pattaya, was arrested at the El Paso restaurant located at 124/49-51 Moo. 10, South Pattaya, Nongprue.

Johansen has been operating a company providing visa, work permit and translation services in soi 13, besides running “Ingos” bar on Pattaya’s third road with a partner.

Police revealed that he had been supplying drugs to foreigners using his position in the Volunteer Police as a cover. He claimed he knew many police officers in Chonburi and bragged that no one would want to make a problem for him.

At 7:30 pm today (3rd September) the editor of PDN was notified by Mr. Howard Miller, the leader of the Volunteer Tourist Police, that Johansen had been sacked from his team about 6 months ago because it was discovered he had a dark past. Johansen has now been taken to the office of Narcotics Suppression Bureau for further processing.

PDN would like to assure its readers that we will be following the developments in this case closely and will provide updates as and when we receive them.

Looks like another set-up of an innocent man?

Norwegian’s Thailand Nightmare Ends

http://www.chiangraitimes.com/news/12207.html

[FarangTalk]

Most of the volunteers are probably not respectable either and the majority are working illegally without work permits because the police like to demonstrate they are above the law, although the volunteers are not above the law. It seems a ridiculous system full of contradictions. Foreigners are better off giving the corrupt Thai police force and its hangers on a wide bearth.

http://www.pattayada...-drugs-dealing/

Norwegian Volunteer Police Arrested In Pattaya For Drugs Dealing

Pattaya, September 3,[PDN]: On the 3rd September 2009, John Johansen, an ex member of the Pattaya Foreign Police Volunteers, was arrested by police, charged with drugs and firearms offenses.

The 39 year old Norwegian was arrested in a sting operation organized by Police Lieutenant Colonel Somsak Nongpong, Deputy Superintendent of The Office of The Narcotic Control Board and his team. At the time of his arrest Johansen had in his possession 40 grams of heroin, and a .38mm gun with 10 bullets. Police also confiscated his Honda motorbike, reg. no. 283 Chonburi.

Johansen, a long time (10 years) resident of Pattaya, was arrested at the El Paso restaurant located at 124/49-51 Moo. 10, South Pattaya, Nongprue.

Johansen has been operating a company providing visa, work permit and translation services in soi 13, besides running “Ingos” bar on Pattaya’s third road with a partner.

Police revealed that he had been supplying drugs to foreigners using his position in the Volunteer Police as a cover. He claimed he knew many police officers in Chonburi and bragged that no one would want to make a problem for him.

At 7:30 pm today (3rd September) the editor of PDN was notified by Mr. Howard Miller, the leader of the Volunteer Tourist Police, that Johansen had been sacked from his team about 6 months ago because it was discovered he had a dark past. Johansen has now been taken to the office of Narcotics Suppression Bureau for further processing.

PDN would like to assure its readers that we will be following the developments in this case closely and will provide updates as and when we receive them.

Looks like another set-up of an innocent man?

Norwegian’s Thailand Nightmare Ends

http://www.chiangrai...news/12207.html

Good luck getting him back to Thailand for the appeal.

[Para]

Looks like another set-up of an innocent man?

Norwegian’s Thailand Nightmare Ends

http://www.chiangrai...news/12207.html

Once again the fearless warrior returns to battle!

Nisa I knew of this guy and he was very far from innocent.

Let me guess you will try and find fault with what I have said......

[Para]

Good luck getting him back to Thailand for the appeal.

What appeal?

Sure I read the story but he served his time and was sent back to his home country under the treaty agreement where he should of served half of his remaining sentence. The public prosecutor only had to option to appeal after the criminal court verdict over 3 years ago.

Do a search on this guy there are plenty of posts about him on other forums he wasn't a nice person.

[FlamingBull]

Looks like another set-up of an innocent man?

Norwegian’s Thailand Nightmare Ends

http://www.chiangrai...news/12207.html

Once again the fearless warrior returns to battle!

Nisa I knew of this guy and he was very far from innocent.

Let me guess you will try and find fault with what I have said......

@Nisa @Para BOTH OF YOU may wish to set-up a "direct message system" or a "private website" as your posts are boring readers. Quite clearly the pair of you live on a keyboard. Get a life and let the other bloggers get a sensible commentary going. Goodbye

[Para]

@Nisa @Para BOTH OF YOU may wish to set-up a "direct message system" or a "private website" as your posts are boring readers. Quite clearly the pair of you live on a keyboard. Get a life and let the other bloggers get a sensible commentary going. Goodbye

'Self described Blogger' + 15 posts = oxymoron or is there no 'oxy' about it?

[FlamingBull]

Thank you for your private messages kind folk. sigh....I should have thought about the block function or skipping the 2 avatars earlier - like some of you have done. Good idea.

I liked one of the messages which joked about the guy "being all quantity and no quality" when it came to "number of posts". Loneliness makes people slaves to a helpless & hapless keyboard I suppose. Anyway, I must go now its time to find someone for tea-money, like a good Thai policeman.

Edited January 19, 2013 by FlamingBull

[Para]

@Flamingballs there you go see a fellow blogger has helped you!

[hughben]

Looking at this I thought of a scenario some may have been exposed to.

What happens if the 'accused' has ran out of money?

They aren't allowed to work are they?

Do they become homeless?

[F430murci]

OK ... the ACTUAL facts (from someone who knows):

1. 3.5 years ago plaintiff attempted to extort 500,000 THB and threatened with copies of passports and an arrest warrant. 2 plaintiffs - a) retired high ranking police officer & b ) employee of Thai embassy in London

2. Defendants refused to pay and were arrested walking out of the meeting in Starbucks. Spent one night in jail - released on bail following day.

3. 2 charges - a) theft of 5 pieces of furniture (from an UNFURNISHED house) 200,000 THB & b ) criminal damage of 192,000 THB (which they did not commit)

4. Court verdict NOT GUILTY 18th Jan 2010

5. Plaintiffs appealed ONLY ONE charge (criminal damage). First court refused to back the appeal and said that the charges cannot be split. Prosecutor backed the appeal and was therefore accepted by 1st appeal court.

6. Appeal court verdict 4th Dec 2012 - NOT GUILTY

7. Waited 30 days for documents to clear in order to handle immigration and be able to leave. Court confirmed documents cleared 10th Jan 2013

8. 14th Jan 2013 - Documents revoked and immigration block not removed due to request by Plaintiffs to have a 60 day extension to allow appeal to be submitted to Supreme Court (still only the criminal damage charge).

Hope that helps!

Mr Chestnutt's parents, Pat and Bruce Chestnutt, said charges against him were dropped in 2011 but he could not leave the country then as his former landlord lodged an appeal.

That appeal was not upheld in December ...

http://www.bbc.co.uk...ashire-21024398

You appear to have one date wrong and according to numerous news sources also the fact he was ever found not guilty. Charges being dismissed and appeal not upheld are significantly different than a Not Guilty verdict or being cleared of charges.

Any link to the other info such as the 500,000 demand for furniture in an unfurnished apartment or even the landlord's name and employment? Also curious why the tenant has not filed extortion attempts against landlord ... seems the court is not impressed with his background and employment ... Also wonder why no mention of the landlords status and why nobody has petitioned the UK for the expulsion of this UK staff member who is clearly an extortionist of at least one UK Citizen.

Above all links would be helpful or it will simply be another peeing contest between some internet poster who comes on to say it was 20k worth of furniture he was seen stealing.

And this from the queen of uncommon sense and speculation.

[Sayonarax]

Have no sympathy for the little troll since ive been renting condos out for years to outsiders. You people need to learn some respect for other peoples crap.. Mr Chestnutt must be loaded to hang around Thailand for years with out a paying job.

[Khunangkaro]

#89 monkeycountry

Posted 2013-01-16 18:58:09, said:

Just out of general curiosity. If someone (not Mr. Lee) is forced to stay in Thailand by a court, has no money and no family or bank who can/will pay, and is not allowed to work in Thailand. Then who pays for food, shelter etc? Is Thailand, or the persons home country legally obliged to pay?

#93 Remix4

Posted 2013-01-16 19:06:18, said:

You are forced to pay. The Thai government and the UK government WILL DO NOTHING with regards to financial support

#146 monkeycountry

Posted 2013-01-17 14:00:23 said:

I am sure you are right with regards to the governments, but my question still stands. If you are not allowed to work, and not entitled to any form of welfare, which a foreigner in Thailand is not, then what money are you supposed to pay with?

#147 Remix4

Posted 2013-01-17 14:03:30 said:

Your own. Try one of the charities maybe - although if you arent a drug courier who's actually guilty then they arent generally interested!

You could try begging or routing through dustbins for scraps of food but then again that would constitute work I guess!

#149 Para

Posted 2013-01-17 14:32:24 said:

This is what people don't understand when you are stuck in the Thai legal system no one is there to help you. The Embassy has no interest, any of the prisoner abroad charities will only help if you are actually in prison.

As Remix4 says you have to support yourself but without the correct visa paperwork any work would be illegal and leave him open to further prosecution.

#25 Para

Posted 2013-01-16 13:59:22, said:

Sadly yes it the way things work here. The British Embassy WONT get involved. The various charities are also unable to help. Sometimes its actually better being in prison on remand that out on bail but unable to leave the country or work here.

TiT.....

#186 axact

Posted 2013-01-17 18:53:37 said:

I cannot see how being in a The Monkey House is better that being free but restricted on bail, it just beggars belief you could say that assuming your aware of prison conditions in Thai jails ?

#187 Para

Posted 2013-01-17 19:02:57 said:

OK so you make bail but cant work and don't have anyone to help support you. What do you do for the next 3 years or so till your case is resolved?

I NEVER make assumptions and yes I do know what its like to spend time in a Thai prison.

… … … … … … … … ???

Khunangkaro answers:

In Theravada Buddhist society there are many a (Forest) Wat where you are welcome to stay for longer time if you commit yourself to practice Samatha/Vipassana meditation.

Google your way. There is much info to find.

[Asiantravel]

Have no sympathy for the little troll since ive been renting condos out for years to outsiders. You people need to learn some respect for other peoples crap.. Mr Chestnutt must be loaded to hang around Thailand for years with out a paying job.

You people need to learn some respect for other peoples crap.

WOW!! would you care to elaborate and does your warning extend to members of the Thai judiciary who were obviously convinced by his side of the story?

Edited January 21, 2013 by Asiantravel

[Para]

Looking at this I thought of a scenario some may have been exposed to.

What happens if the 'accused' has ran out of money?

They aren't allowed to work are they?

Do they become homeless?

Yes they do. Sadly you hear of people on bail being arrested again after committing crimes one has to wonder how many do it from necessity.....

Khunangkaro answers:

In Theravada Buddhist society there are many a (Forest) Wat where you are welcome to stay for longer time if you commit yourself to practice Samatha/Vipassana meditation.

Google your way. There is much info to find.

Monastic life is incredibly rewarding but even for someone who chooses and follows Buddhism its hard for someone who uses it as a refuge it would be close to impossible to follow the daily routine.

I know any temple (in theory) will help support people as a foreigner trying to find one would be quite hard BUT it is as you say an option.

These comments are from experience not opinion.

[juggernaut]

Have no sympathy for the little troll since ive been renting condos out for years to outsiders. You people need to learn some respect for other peoples crap.. Mr Chestnutt must be loaded to hang around Thailand for years with out a paying job.

^^^^ = troll - "one who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption or argument. Someone with nothing worthwhile to add to a certain conversation......"

So much wrong with that post - it doesn't deserve comment. Nope I'm not biting.

[Remix4]

Mr Chestnutt must be loaded to hang around Thailand for years with out a paying job.

You really need to at least attempt to read the story fully and not just look at the pictures ... Mr Chestnutt doesnt have a choice

[hughben]

Looking at this I thought of a scenario some may have been exposed to.

What happens if the 'accused' has ran out of money?

They aren't allowed to work are they?

Do they become homeless?

Yes they do. Sadly you hear of people on bail being arrested again after committing crimes one has to wonder how many do it from necessity....

I think if I was looking at a life on the streets, I would consider an escape across the border.