EDITORIAL

Give our poorer students a chance to learn online

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The money wasted on the first-car scheme could easily have provided free lessons for kids who cannot compete with wealthier peers who can afford private tutors.

Among children's messages to Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra as they marked Children's Day last week, one seemed to stand out: "There are too many expensive tutorials out there and the more they are, the less chance for poor kids like me. Can it all just be done in the classroom?" asked a girl from Lop Buri.

It's a good question, and one that, apparently, no prime minister can answer. In fact, we cannot name any parent who is rich enough to afford extra tutorials and yet doesn't pay for them.

Society debates inequality like it doesn't really matter. When it comes to issues like this, nobody wants to stick his or her neck out. The truth is that parents' love goes beyond anything, even the possibility of being dubbed a hypocrite. You may be poor. You may struggle to make ends meet. But if your kid comes to you saying he or she wants to get extra tutorials in Thai, maths or English, you dig into your pocket without hesitation. There are a few people in favour of self-study, of utilising the unlimited wealth of knowledge online, but, by and large, if you can afford special tutorials for your children, you do it without thinking twice.

Partly, it's because special tutorials are effective. In many cases they are provided by people whose businesses live or die depending on how "good" they are, based on real records and word of mouth. No offence to ordinary teachers, but the motivations are different. One camp is getting more or less the same salary increase no matter how many of their students get into university, or how "good" they are in the eyes of students, but those in the other camp need great track records. If you run a tutorial class that utterly fails, you are out of business, and vice versa.

Partly, it's because it's a trend that feeds on itself. You may enter parenthood committing yourself to "fairness" and vowing that your children will succeed or fail depending on what they do in the ordinary classroom. Then you see your neighbours do it, and then your children's friends head off to see their tutors straight after school. Chances are you will blink. Before you know it, you start competing with the other parents on whose tutors are better or more exclusive. You may start parenthood with full sympathy for the girl from Lop Buri, but soon enough you find yourself shrugging at her complaints. It's painful, kid, but it's a fact of life.

Rich youngsters are caught up in this tutorial trend. My friends are doing it, and what if they all get seats at university but I don't? When adults easily succumb to tutorial paranoia, the kids stand no chance. Peer pressure is formidable in anything, but add a child's anxiety over falling behind, and it becomes deadly. It's almost impossible to go home and do your own study when all of your friends see a tutor who, they say, gets 90 per cent of his students into university.

The Lop Buri girl's only hope is for online self-study, to be swept by another revolution. The pioneers are there - both teachers and students - attempting to institutionalise academic self-help. Free tutorials, in fact, are flooding the Internet, and some TV channels have been broadcasting to classrooms. The problem is, really poor children still don't get access, and the teaching content, as well as the way it is delivered, has not been standardised.

Yingluck's government has provided computer tablets to schoolchildren, but then we see a different motivation from the likes of the administration's first-car policy. Education is not just about tools. It's about building true infrastructure and creating quality content. Free online tutorials of a systematic, effective and all-encompassing kind must be seriously considered. Then make it a trend - which shouldn't be difficult for a government that made people scramble to car dealers at the end of last year.

The same amount of money used to subsidise the first-car scheme could be spent on getting all high-profile tutors together and getting them to provide free online services. There would still be plenty of money left to fund Internet accessibility for poor children. Of course, the problem won't be solved overnight, but the Lop Buri girl would be genuinely happier.

-- The Nation 2013-01-17

But the parents of the poor kids already vote for PT anyway.

Two important parts to this. Tutorials are expensive and many simply about the money as is the cost of 'international' schooling here - simply outrageous. Education has simply become a profit centre without much care to the populace.

The second most important part of this is many kids have the ability but are stopped from learning. How? The child who raises a hand in class and seeks explanation stops those who got it from progressing thus the entire class will only learn at the rate of the slowest learner. I have taught and have experienced this many times even at University lectures.

Take education online and have self testing like a game. Kids get that. They get through the test, they proceed to the next level. The brighter ones will rocket ahead. The slower learners can then seek one on one tutorial and the teacher, with less students to handle (now the brighter ones have moved on) gets less pressure and stress whilst the student gets quality in their education. But then what would I know?

I guess my question is, "What are these poor students and their parents doing with the things they currently have?" You do not cast pearls to swine. This is a clear case of a society whose culture goes where there is least resistance, and whose minds are too busy engaged with whining and crying over what they don't have, whilst figuratively defecating on and wasting what they do have.

They have time; time to sit down and learn the alphabet. And when they learn the alphabet, to read. And when they learn to read, to gather knowledge instead of reaching for the mindless pap.

It's all about choices. When I see the choices that Thais make on their own, I do not wonder that any amount of freebies from any source would not be squandered away for the sake of lazy, unprincipled self-gratification.

When I look at the behavior of the rich and powerful, distant cousins of these these poor Thai students, it becomes clear to me that the poor students are nothing more than a "poor" representation of what they would become were they simply to have the wealth and power that they dream of.

It seems the true nature of a Thai is only evident in direct proportion of their measured financial wealth. The poorer they are, the more they whine and do nothing with what they've got. The wealthier they are, the more whining they create with what they've got amongst their poorer cousins.

I see what these "poor" students do with their time when they are on the Internet and they think no one is looking. Just go to any internet cafe and pull up the history or the cache, or look over their shoulder.

Yes! I am certain I do not care at all about the sincerity of their plea. After all, why give them the opportunity to become the very thing they are jealous of, and which they can't seem to provide enough evidence otherwise?

Edited January 18, 201313 yr by cup-O-coffee

"Free online tutorials of a systematic, effective and all-encompassing kind must be seriously considered."

I have taught here for a few years now on the university level, and to even consider giving my time/knowledge for free would be an insult, considering the disdain and indifference we foreigners endure. I suggest that Thailand work toward changing the culture towards the white people that educate your children, and you may just survive the ASEAN summit. I, of course, won't be holding my breath, which, let it be known, is the very breath your children's future depends on... How do you like me now?

Great article. For anyone interested in good structured math instruction, check out ALEKS, put together by U of California.

There really should be a good program for Thais learning English, K-12.

BANGKOK: -- The money wasted on the first-car scheme could easily have provided free lessons for kids who cannot compete with wealthier peers who can afford private tutors.

Couldn't they say this about just about any good cause? The money could have been spent on the environment, on healthcare and so on but in this case this money was budgeted for economic stimulus (i assume). Money for Education went into tablets and if the poor have an issue with that then they should remember this come next election.

Great article. For anyone interested in good structured math instruction, check out ALEKS, put together by U of California.

There really should be a good program for Thais learning English, K-12.

I went to check this out, but there were Thai students at every computer station playing online games and surfing porn.

Two important parts to this. Tutorials are expensive and many simply about the money as is the cost of 'international' schooling here - simply outrageous. Education has simply become a profit centre without much care to the populace.

The second most important part of this is many kids have the ability but are stopped from learning. How? The child who raises a hand in class and seeks explanation stops those who got it from progressing thus the entire class will only learn at the rate of the slowest learner. I have taught and have experienced this many times even at University lectures.

Take education online and have self testing like a game. Kids get that. They get through the test, they proceed to the next level. The brighter ones will rocket ahead. The slower learners can then seek one on one tutorial and the teacher, with less students to handle (now the brighter ones have moved on) gets less pressure and stress whilst the student gets quality in their education. But then what would I know?

Are you advocating doing away with the schools. Just do it on line. Or keep the schools and the teachers job is to make sure they are not playing games on there pad, computer or what ever they are hooked into for these wonderful free tutorials.

Just out of curiosity does any one know of a country that has there education system based on free in depth tutorials that would cost an arm and a leg here in Thailand?

Or is this all just academic talk about possibilities rather than realities.

Seems to me some people want to change the entire Thai culture.

Answer me this if a Thai is happy with his culture why should he change to your culture after all it is his country.

Kind of like saying I should be unhappy because I don't have as much money as Bill Gates. Sorry to inform you but I am not and have no intention of doing anything to attain it.

Seems to me that a certain percentage of the population is deeply involved with changing the culture to a materialistic one and they are backed up by many people from the western countries.

My wife and her family don't give a hoot in hell whether they have or don't have what other cultures have. They are happy people and I would offer up the ideas that most Thai's are happy with it. Remember there are 66.000,000 of them here and they are not all in the big cities even in the big cities if you look you will find the majority of the Thais are happy.

It is like the old axiom the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In other words the happy people don't run around making a noise about it. It is just the few unhappy ones that make the noise.

Rant over fire away.

Just out of curiosity does any one know of a country that has there education system based on free in depth tutorials that would cost an arm and a leg here in Thailand?

Or is this all just academic talk about possibilities rather than realities.

Seems to me some people want to change the entire Thai culture.

Answer me this if a Thai is happy with his culture why should he change to your culture after all it is his country.

Kind of like saying I should be unhappy because I don't have as much money as Bill Gates. Sorry to inform you but I am not and have no intention of doing anything to attain it.

Seems to me that a certain percentage of the population is deeply involved with changing the culture to a materialistic one and they are backed up by many people from the western countries.

My wife and her family don't give a hoot in hell whether they have or don't have what other cultures have. They are happy people and I would offer up the ideas that most Thai's are happy with it. Remember there are 66.000,000 of them here and they are not all in the big cities even in the big cities if you look you will find the majority of the Thais are happy.

It is like the old axiom the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In other words the happy people don't run around making a noise about it. It is just the few unhappy ones that make the noise.

Rant over fire away.

Or in summary, ignorance can actually be bliss. Keeping Thai's uneducated is a simple tool of control. Public access to education (schools) did not exist in Thailand until 1923 so with less than 100 years in educational terms, Thai's in the big smoke have adopted western styles which IMHO are not the best. So if the Thai people englobo were actually educated to international standards would this mean we would end up with a western styled smiling bunch of <deleted>? I would think we would. I don't advocate for dropping schools as you mentioned in your other posts, rather have the kids with teachers and the access to education electronically. Teachers have a place and a necessary place, combining them with technology is not a bad mix.

BANGKOK: -- The money wasted on the first-car scheme could easily have provided free lessons for kids who cannot compete with wealthier peers who can afford private tutors.

Couldn't they say this about just about any good cause? The money could have been spent on the environment, on healthcare and so on but in this case this money was budgeted for economic stimulus (i assume). Money for Education went into tablets and if the poor have an issue with that then they should remember this come next election.

...but that doesn't happen only in Thailand, doesn't it?!

I don't actually think educational opportunities should be equal. I'm not arguing against what the girl says. I definitely think there should be programs like ALEKS, as well as tutorials for learning English, and other subjects available online. But, these aren't going to take the place of writing critiques, creativity, learning math proofs, etc.. But there still should be an effort to make those things which can be taught online available, as the cost is minimal compared to the benefit.

But, as a parent, part of my drive to succeed and work hard is derived from the fact that I want to give my kids every opportunity to receive a good education. If my son has an opportunity to go to Harvard, I don't want to say, no, you can't go , we can't afford it, because dad didn't work hard enough. Or maybe what they want to do is spend a semester in France or China.. That's an educational advantage that I would have to pay for. Do we think that should be equally available to everyone? Or maybe it's violin lessons from the best possible teacher? Why is it wrong for me to want to provide this for my kids? Should the government be trying to match me at every step? If I sit down and read and do math problems with my kids every night, should the government provide someone to kids whose parents are out getting drunk?

If I were to talk directly with that girl, I would say, don't worry about the tutoring, use your own resourcefulness to teach yourself. Those kids are all being spoonfed, and they might never really learn how to be able to problem solve and think critically. There's a million resources out there for learning what you need. Library, google, find a chat partner on skype, wikipedia, etc etc.. What you learn from disciplining yourself to put forth the effort personally is what will make you a successful person, not necessarily any one piece of knowledge or information a tutor is teaching..

I don't actually think educational opportunities should be equal. I'm not arguing against what the girl says. I definitely think there should be programs like ALEKS, as well as tutorials for learning English, and other subjects available online. But, these aren't going to take the place of writing critiques, creativity, learning math proofs, etc.. But there still should be an effort to make those things which can be taught online available, as the cost is minimal compared to the benefit.

But, as a parent, part of my drive to succeed and work hard is derived from the fact that I want to give my kids every opportunity to receive a good education. If my son has an opportunity to go to Harvard, I don't want to say, no, you can't go , we can't afford it, because dad didn't work hard enough. Or maybe what they want to do is spend a semester in France or China.. That's an educational advantage that I would have to pay for. Do we think that should be equally available to everyone? Or maybe it's violin lessons from the best possible teacher? Why is it wrong for me to want to provide this for my kids? Should the government be trying to match me at every step? If I sit down and read and do math problems with my kids every night, should the government provide someone to kids whose parents are out getting drunk?

If I were to talk directly with that girl, I would say, don't worry about the tutoring, use your own resourcefulness to teach yourself. Those kids are all being spoonfed, and they might never really learn how to be able to problem solve and think critically. There's a million resources out there for learning what you need. Library, google, find a chat partner on skype, wikipedia, etc etc.. What you learn from disciplining yourself to put forth the effort personally is what will make you a successful person, not necessarily any one piece of knowledge or information a tutor is teaching..

I had a brilliant reply to Locationthailand. Basically I agreed with him with the stipulation to not push them so hard rite out of the womb.

My computer went of line I have two servers and they both expired today so I had to get a temporary number until tomorrow. when I logged in I read your post and I have to say it was brilliant. Let the kids learn some basic solving of problems on there own before you give them a machine. My opinion only but the third grade would be early enough.

The machine can like you say stifle the creativity in some people.

Locationthailand

"Free online tutorials of a systematic, effective and all-encompassing kind must be seriously considered."

I have taught here for a few years now on the university level, and to even consider giving my time/knowledge for free would be an insult, considering the disdain and indifference we foreigners endure. I suggest that Thailand work toward changing the culture towards the white people that educate your children, and you may just survive the ASEAN summit. I, of course, won't be holding my breath, which, let it be known, is the very breath your children's future depends on... How do you like me now?

When the article mentions FREE online tutorials, (unless I missed something) I think it means the data would be available free to the students. It doesn't necessarily mean the people putting together the tutorials would be doing so without pay.

In the bigger picture, I think school in general is over-rated. Younger years, ok, particularly if there are smaller classes which encourage creative thinking and artistic expression. As for higher learning, it's debatable whether online learning along with (if possible) tutoring by a master, would be better than sitting in classrooms for most daylight hours. Look at the majority of U grads who either know very little and/or can't find employment when they graduate (and they and/or their parents are required to pay back large loans), and tell me whether U is worthwhile. Similar to other businesses, U's are geared to making as much money as they can. They're particularly adept at hoodwinking parents in to thinking it's crucially important for their kids to go to U. Unlike other businesses, they don't offer a money-back guarantee if their service fails.

Just out of curiosity does any one know of a country that has there education system based on free in depth tutorials that would cost an arm and a leg here in Thailand?

Or is this all just academic talk about possibilities rather than realities.

Seems to me some people want to change the entire Thai culture.

Answer me this if a Thai is happy with his culture why should he change to your culture after all it is his country.

Kind of like saying I should be unhappy because I don't have as much money as Bill Gates. Sorry to inform you but I am not and have no intention of doing anything to attain it.

Seems to me that a certain percentage of the population is deeply involved with changing the culture to a materialistic one and they are backed up by many people from the western countries.

My wife and her family don't give a hoot in hell whether they have or don't have what other cultures have. They are happy people and I would offer up the ideas that most Thai's are happy with it. Remember there are 66.000,000 of them here and they are not all in the big cities even in the big cities if you look you will find the majority of the Thais are happy.

It is like the old axiom the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In other words the happy people don't run around making a noise about it. It is just the few unhappy ones that make the noise.

Rant over fire away.

So being ignorant and happy in your ignorance is okay? That's kind of like saying "They're sweeter when they're dumb, so let's keep them that way."

Just out of curiosity does any one know of a country that has there education system based on free in depth tutorials that would cost an arm and a leg here in Thailand?

Or is this all just academic talk about possibilities rather than realities.

Seems to me some people want to change the entire Thai culture.

Answer me this if a Thai is happy with his culture why should he change to your culture after all it is his country.

Kind of like saying I should be unhappy because I don't have as much money as Bill Gates. Sorry to inform you but I am not and have no intention of doing anything to attain it.

Seems to me that a certain percentage of the population is deeply involved with changing the culture to a materialistic one and they are backed up by many people from the western countries.

My wife and her family don't give a hoot in hell whether they have or don't have what other cultures have. They are happy people and I would offer up the ideas that most Thai's are happy with it. Remember there are 66.000,000 of them here and they are not all in the big cities even in the big cities if you look you will find the majority of the Thais are happy.

It is like the old axiom the squeaky wheel gets the grease. In other words the happy people don't run around making a noise about it. It is just the few unhappy ones that make the noise.

Rant over fire away.

So being ignorant and happy in your ignorance is okay? That's kind of like saying "They're sweeter when they're dumb, so let's keep them that way."

You might want to reword that post. You are talking about two different things.

1 So being ignorant and happy in your ignorance is okay?

Yes would you rather be a genius and unhappy. This is your choice.

2 "They're sweeter when they're dumb, so let's keep them that way."

That is some one doing it to you.

The reporter says that tutorial schools have to be 'good' or they will quickly not survive.

Nice business 101 theory but I beg to differ, I'm well aware of such schools which survive on their clever brochures and speil which focus mainly on good / clever presentation, on claiming that the school is owned by a doctor of something, and on strongly encouraging their students to push their friends to sign up - a form of peer pressure.

A mother signed her daughter to attend one of these schools in Siam square, the teacher shown in the brochures and mentioned on sign up (supposedly famous) didn't appear. The mother asked why. Answer 'But she's so busy'.

Mother asked for her money back, school refused.

To be honest I suggest this whole piece is worthless and my respect for the newspaper involved sinks lower and lower.

'on-line' study / tuition or whatever for poor students is not a solid answer for many reasons and will never work for many reasons, just one being the lack of face to face intereaction*, teachers pushing/encouraging students to analyse and to question face to face.

(*There is more and more evidence that electronic communications etc., is killing conversation and discussion capabilities.)

Making comparisons to money spent on new car cash back schemes is about as relevant as selling fridges to Eskimos.

There is only one answer - total reform of the education system from every angle and until this happens 'band-aids' are just wasting hard earned tax payers funds.

The newspaper and many other civic bodies could be a strong partner in forcing the government to take some solid action on this matter(and let's be honest all governments past and present are guilty of not adddresing this issue).

In reality all schools, all locations, should be configured (class size, quality teachers and interactive teaching/learning, up to date proven best teaching materials and aids, etc) so that tuition schools are only needed for a small % of children who do genuinly need help.

Edited January 21, 201313 yr by scorecard

To be honest I suggest this whole piece is worthless and my respect for the newspaper involved sinks lower and lower.

'on-line' study / tuition or whatever for poor students is not a solid answer for many reasons and will never work for many reasons, just one being the lack of face to face intereaction*, teachers pushing/encouraging students to analyse and to question face to face.

(*There is more and more evidence that electronic communications etc., is killing conversation and discussion capabilities.)

Making comparisons to money spent on new car cash back schemes is about as relevant as selling fridges to Eskimos.

There is only one answer - total reform of the education system from every angle and until this happens 'band-aids' are just wasting hard earned tax payers funds.

The newspaper and many other civic bodies could be a strong partner in forcing the government to take some solid action on this matter(and let's be honest all governments past and present are guilty of not adddresing this issue).

In reality all schools, all locations, should be configured (class size, quality teachers and interactive teaching/learning, up to date proven best teaching materials and aids, etc) so that tuition schools are only needed for a small % of children who do genuinly need help.

It is a hard pill for any government to swallow that the whole system needs total reform but never the less you are right on the money with that.

Yes it is all the past governments as well as the current one that are responsible. But the facts are that they are no longer here and it is up to the present one to fix it or continue the succession of governments putting band-ads on.

To be honest I suggest this whole piece is worthless and my respect for the newspaper involved sinks lower and lower.

'on-line' study / tuition or whatever for poor students is not a solid answer for many reasons and will never work for many reasons, just one being the lack of face to face intereaction*, teachers pushing/encouraging students to analyse and to question face to face.

(*There is more and more evidence that electronic communications etc., is killing conversation and discussion capabilities.)

Making comparisons to money spent on new car cash back schemes is about as relevant as selling fridges to Eskimos.

There is only one answer - total reform of the education system from every angle and until this happens 'band-aids' are just wasting hard earned tax payers funds.

The newspaper and many other civic bodies could be a strong partner in forcing the government to take some solid action on this matter(and let's be honest all governments past and present are guilty of not adddresing this issue).

In reality all schools, all locations, should be configured (class size, quality teachers and interactive teaching/learning, up to date proven best teaching materials and aids, etc) so that tuition schools are only needed for a small % of children who do genuinly need help.

It is a hard pill for any government to swallow that the whole system needs total reform but never the less you are right on the money with that.

Yes it is all the past governments as well as the current one that are responsible. But the facts are that they are no longer here and it is up to the present one to fix it or continue the succession of governments putting band-ads on.

In terms of 'fix it', yes it is a massive and complex task with at least a ten year implementation timeline and with massive preparation to get new teachers ready for the new picture. And it will cost a fortune.

It's been said before that one of the major hurdles (just one) to change are the current teachers, most of whom refuse to acknowledge any real need for change and this no doubtcontains a fear of change.

I've shared this example before but perhaps worth it again:

- My Thai adult son completed some of his high school education in Singapore, therefore exposed to student centered learning/interactive learning and others teaching/learning, resoiurces, materials, curriculum, etc., which put Singapore way up the list (country by country) in terms of quality education. My son loved it came back to Thailand a different person, no hesitation to engage in good conversation, automatic analysis skills, etc.

- Son completed the new Thai 5 year education degree, which does have some content on student centered / interactive learning.

- Son went to a very big 'famous' govt., high school for work experience.

- On arrival with his buddy taken to meet the headmistress who read son's documents and noted he went to high school in Singapore and then realized my son could speak advanced English so she spoke to him on all occasions in English.

- Headmistress tells son and buddy to get themselves organized to conduct a briefing and demonstration (from memory planned to be one hour) for all teachers, about student centered / interactive learning.

- Not one teacher attended, and after the allocated timing a large group of teachers descended on the headmisress' office to say they were insulted about any suggestion that they should change and they demanded, and won, her agreement that she would never again organize or allow such a presentation / seminar whatever on this subject.

- Son and his buddy now totally ignored by all staff who refuse to talk to them and refuse to cooperate with them.

- Headmistress quickly used her contacts to get them into another govt., school for their work experience.

Perhaps the catalist which will force change will be when AEC is really up and running and large numbers of Thais actually see how way behind they are, and see (my guess here) that companies in other countries / from other countries don't want to employ them (and I'm not meaning because of english language skills).

Edited January 21, 201313 yr by scorecard