Experts Call On Thai Govt To Drop Draft Targeting Migrant Kids

[webfact]

Experts call on govt to drop draft targeting migrant kids

PONGPHON SARNSAMAK

THE NATION

BANGKOK: -- Thailand's reputation in the international arena will be badly affected if the government approves a ministerial regulation potentially affecting millions of stateless children living in Thailand, a legal expert said yesterday.

Activists are calling on the government to suspend the drafting of this regulation and instead develop policies that will guarantee a legal status and grant equality to all children born in the Kingdom.

If the proposed law comes into effect, millions of non-Thai youngsters who enter the country illegally, stateless children and those born in Thailand to migrant parents but who have not been registered will end up being deported and separated from their parents or caretakers. This will also put them at the risk of abuse and child trafficking.

"This draft regulation goes against the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, especially since Thailand is part of the international community which joined this convention," Warangkana Mutumol from Save the Children organisation said.

She was speaking at a seminar held at the Thai Journalists Association to discuss the impact the draft ministerial regulation would have on migrant and stateless children residing in Thailand.

The Interior Ministry has put the draft up for Cabinet consideration. According to the regulation, only children who have registered with the Interior Ministry will be granted the right to live in the Kingdom for as long as their parents get to stay here.

Those who were born in Thailand but have not been registered or do not hold Thai nationality will be considered illegal immigrants and will be deported.

This ministerial regulation does not conform to the path leading to the Asean Economic Community, which aims to facilitate more trade between members. The regulation will limit the mobility of people and mark unregistered migrants as criminals, the experts said.

Surapong Kong-janteuk, who heads the Lawyers Council's human-rights subcommittee on stateless, migrant workers and displaced people, said the government should provide legal protection for these children and should not treat them as criminals.

"These children must be given Thai nationality and be protected by law," he said.

-- The Nation 2013-01-18

[Thai at Heart]

Nice idea, so what about kids born to two western parents?

Oooooopsie, that will never fly.

[JDGRUEN]

The policy of the United States allowing children born on U.S. soil to be granted citizenship is one of the biggest mistakes that has ever been made by the U.S. Courts. We have Mexican and Central American women who are 7-8 months pregnant coming across the border just to have their baby... 'Once the baby is born - the mother is locked in too - someone has to take care of the child... It is never ending ... The cost for illegal aliens is in the tens fo billions and climbing ... Thailand can find a humane way to send them back - send the mother back too. Adopt the kids out to people who want children - even overseas. Screen the parents - international adoption is not a new concept.

[noitom]

Children born on Thai soil have a right to stay as Thai citizens.

[Locationthailand]

Is this about conscience, human rights or politics? Kids will always be the victims of stupidity.

[OzMick]

Children born on Thai soil have a right to stay as Thai citizens.

Actually, they do not. In many countries (Australia included) children born in that country have the citizen/residency status of their parents ONLY.

[cup-O-coffee]

Is this about conscience, human rights or politics? Kids will always be the victims of stupidity.

Disagree. Kids will always be the result of two idiots having unprotected sex without considering the consequences that their children-to-be will be victims of two said idiots. Don't blame others for what two idiots abuse; the right to have sex, but the principles to have sex responsibly, and to not expect others to deal with what you brought on irresponsibly.

A right for humans can only be extended so far,and then it loses its elasticity and ability to protect those who need it most. Throwing an endless succession of babies born into poverty onto the human rights issue will dilute it entirely. A conscience can only go so far until it loses its ability to think clearly and act in a timely and good manner. Bringing a human life into this world should only be to add joy to those who engage in that process, and who can responsibly provide at least the most basic needs for that life. It should not be a process which merely adds to the suffering of the rest of the world, whilst the two idiots who began that life process stand back and abandon it, or use it as a tool to get sympathy, money-in-exchange-for services rendered, or government freebies.

Edited January 18, 2013 by cup-O-coffee

[rubl]

Only yesterday we had

"Mr Surapong said the EU envoys complimented Thailand's determination in fighting against human trafficking and the Thai police department's alert system which is connected to a nationwide criminal database, adding that it takes six months to see clear results of the government's anti-human trafficking efforts."

Maybe we need a second opinion from the EU envoys on 'human rights' related issues

[chooka]

"Stateless children and those born in Thailand to migrant parents but who have not been registered will end up being deported and separated from their parents or caretakers. This will also put them at the risk of abuse and child trafficking.

The number of stateless children in Thailand is unknown, but some estimate the number might be close to 100,000 in border towns such as Mae Sot and Ranong.

Children born to Burmese in Thailand are ineligible for citizenship either in Burma or in Thailand. Ref : http://www.nationalityforall.org/thailand

Where will they deport these children to?

[dcutman]

Only yesterday we had

"Mr Surapong said the EU envoys complimented Thailand's determination in fighting against human trafficking and the Thai police department's alert system which is connected to a nationwide criminal database, adding that it takes six months to see clear results of the government's anti-human trafficking efforts."

Maybe we need a second opinion from the EU envoys on 'human rights' related issues

You assume these activist come from another country.

I personally believe these activists are from the Thai fisheries themselves. Of course they dont want to see the children of their workers deported or separated from them. After all children are so cute, have such little fingers (great for peeling shrimp) and they take up much less space (so can get many more in each peeling shed) and most likely their wages would not be as high (none) because their parents are already working for that respective fishery.

Edited January 18, 2013 by dcutman

[Plastic Brontosaurus]

If they make all children born in Thailand citizens, that will cause an influx of parents wanting to have their babies here just to give them citizenship. The same issue happened in other countries and can cause all kinds of social problems. However deportation is the other end of the scale.

Why not simply give them a right to education, medical care etc. but not citizenship. The fact that kids born to Burmese parents in Thailand don't have right to Burmese citizenship should not be the problem of Thailand - Thailand should lean on Burma to change their insane laws. Burma/Myanmar is all the rage now, but we should remember it is still a totalitarian pariah state living 50 years in the past. One democratic activist with a high profile does not suddenly make it a good country. America's reasons to bear-hug Burma have nothing to do with the country itself, but rather with its worry that China will have the cake and eat it all. Myanmar is a dump, and if they want to develop, they better shape up - starting with giving rights to their children, wherever they are born.

[BradinAsia]

The Thai government wants to deport innocent children because they are "not registered and are not Thai citizens."

This should be seen as just as criminal as any other form of human trafficking involving minors. Forgive me being blunt,

but subjecting innocent children to such heartless treatment -- especially those who are fleeing the rape, burning and

plunder by the Burmese military -- is extremely cruel, inhumane and barbaric. There is no excuse for such behavior.

[Bluespunk]

Not granting citizenship, ok I get that. I may not agree but Thailand isn't alone in this so fair enough. However I do not understand how you can deport children born to migrant parents while not deporting the parents at the same time. What sort of bureaucratic stupidity would allow this? It's barbaric enough to deport those fleeing persecution or are stateless as it is without splitting up the families as well. How do you deport someone who is stateless? Won't the country they are sent to just do the same thing, either that or exploit them as slave labour, that's another issue though.

[seahorse]

There are "millions" of stateless children in Thailand?

[Bluespunk]

There are "millions" of stateless children in Thailand?

Yeah, I was wondering about that as well. Seems a tad high.

[naboo]

Is this about conscience, human rights or politics? Kids will always be the victims of stupidity.

Disagree. Kids will always be the result of two idiots having unprotected sex without considering the consequences that their children-to-be will be victims of two said idiots. Don't blame others for what two idiots abuse; the right to have sex, but the principles to have sex responsibly, and to not expect others to deal with what you brought on irresponsibly.

A right for humans can only be extended so far,and then it loses its elasticity and ability to protect those who need it most. Throwing an endless succession of babies born into poverty onto the human rights issue will dilute it entirely. A conscience can only go so far until it loses its ability to think clearly and act in a timely and good manner. Bringing a human life into this world should only be to add joy to those who engage in that process, and who can responsibly provide at least the most basic needs for that life. It should not be a process which merely adds to the suffering of the rest of the world, whilst the two idiots who began that life process stand back and abandon it, or use it as a tool to get sympathy, money-in-exchange-for services rendered, or government freebies.

Are you saying people who are unfortunate enough to be born into a situation where they have no citizenship should never have children? Bureaucracy is more important than a right to have children?

[Ulic]

I was born in Singapore of foreign nationals I have no claim on Singapore citizenship.

I was registered with the British embassy at birth and was issued a British passport shortly after.

Foreign nationals should be registered with there parents embassies and that should

be there nationality. Not sure about deporting the children. If the parents have work visas

they should be entitled to stay. If the parents are illegal I understand the Thai government

may want to deport the family not just the children. As for human smuggling please remember

98 percent is work related not sexual exploitation. Thai fishing boats. As for children most

are exploited selling flowers in tourist areas in the late evening or begging. Never buy flowers

from these children who should be home in bed. You are just supporting there exploitation.

[Thai at Heart]

I was born in Singapore of foreign nationals I have no claim on Singapore citizenship.

I was registered with the British embassy at birth and was issued a British passport shortly after.

Foreign nationals should be registered with there parents embassies and that should

be there nationality. Not sure about deporting the children. If the parents have work visas

they should be entitled to stay. If the parents are illegal I understand the Thai government

may want to deport the family not just the children. As for human smuggling please remember

98 percent is work related not sexual exploitation. Thai fishing boats. As for children most

are exploited selling flowers in tourist areas in the late evening or begging. Never buy flowers

from these children who should be home in bed. You are just supporting there exploitation.

Crazily, a friend of mines kids got into a mess. Foreign parents, International school, parents working here for 20 years for mnc, kids finish university overseas, so not classed as kids anymore.

Cannot find jobs, have to leave, even though family home has been in Thailand for 20 years.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[Arkady]

The problem resides in this part of Section 7 of the Nationality Act.

"The person who is born within the Kingdom of Thailand and has not acquired Thai nationality under paragraph one shall reside in the Kingdom of Thailand under conditions stated in the Ministerial Regulation, but principles of national security and human rights have to be considered as well. The person shall still be deemed to have entered and resided in the Kingdom of Thailand without permission under the law onimmigration when there is no such Ministerial Regulation."

The law ecifies that those born in Thailand to alien parents are illegal immigrants unless ministerial regulations proscribe otherwise. Now they are to going to repeal the ministerial regulations that proscribed otherwise and treat them as illegal immigrants liable to summary deportation.

Interestingly but not mentioned in any of the press articles, Section 7 of the Nationality Act also still provides for Thai nationality to be granted to children born in Thailand to alien parents.

"In particular cases where the Minister deems it appropriate, he may consider and give an order to grant Thai nationality to any person under paragraph one, in conformity with the rules prescribed by the Cabinet."

[Arkady]

I was born in Singapore of foreign nationals I have no claim on Singapore citizenship.

I was registered with the British embassy at birth and was issued a British passport shortly after.

Foreign nationals should be registered with there parents embassies and that should

be there nationality. Not sure about deporting the children. If the parents have work visas

they should be entitled to stay. If the parents are illegal I understand the Thai government

may want to deport the family not just the children. As for human smuggling please remember

98 percent is work related not sexual exploitation. Thai fishing boats. As for children most

are exploited selling flowers in tourist areas in the late evening or begging. Never buy flowers

from these children who should be home in bed. You are just supporting there exploitation.

Crazily, a friend of mines kids got into a mess. Foreign parents, International school, parents working here for 20 years for mnc, kids finish university overseas, so not classed as kids anymore.

Cannot find jobs, have to leave, even though family home has been in Thailand for 20 years.

This is the opposite end of the spectrum from children of poor labourers born here but it is a real problem for many families. Kids consider Thailand as home but but have no rights to live and work here when they grow up. Parents are to blame for not taking steps to obtain permanent residence and citizenship during the 20 years. Kids under 20 can coat tail on there parents' applications for both PR and citizenship.

[Mosha]

"Stateless children and those born in Thailand to migrant parents but who have not been registered will end up being deported and separated from their parents or caretakers. This will also put them at the risk of abuse and child trafficking.

The number of stateless children in Thailand is unknown, but some estimate the number might be close to 100,000 in border towns such as Mae Sot and Ranong.

Children born to Burmese in Thailand are ineligible for citizenship either in Burma or in Thailand. Ref : http://www.nationali...ll.org/thailand

Where will they deport these children to?

Our Mon tapper is taking his son to Myanmar in the next few weeks. He wants a better education for his son. If they are born to legal migrant workers, I don't believe the kids have a problem being allowed to go live with family back "home"

[h90]

The policy of the United States allowing children born on U.S. soil to be granted citizenship is one of the biggest mistakes that has ever been made by the U.S. Courts. We have Mexican and Central American women who are 7-8 months pregnant coming across the border just to have their baby... 'Once the baby is born - the mother is locked in too - someone has to take care of the child... It is never ending ... The cost for illegal aliens is in the tens fo billions and climbing ... Thailand can find a humane way to send them back - send the mother back too. Adopt the kids out to people who want children - even overseas. Screen the parents - international adoption is not a new concept.

Well USA is a country made by immigrants....if you take away the once illegal immigrants, you have only the american-indians.

[Pimay1]

The policy of the United States allowing children born on U.S. soil to be granted citizenship is one of the biggest mistakes that has ever been made by the U.S. Courts. We have Mexican and Central American women who are 7-8 months pregnant coming across the border just to have their baby... 'Once the baby is born - the mother is locked in too - someone has to take care of the child... It is never ending ... The cost for illegal aliens is in the tens fo billions and climbing ... Thailand can find a humane way to send them back - send the mother back too. Adopt the kids out to people who want children - even overseas. Screen the parents - international adoption is not a new concept.

Well USA is a country made by immigrants....if you take away the once illegal immigrants, you have only the american-indians.

The first immigration law in the USA was passed in 1875 named the Page Act. Before that there were many immigrants but they were not illegal because there was no immigration law. Anyone could go th the USA at will.

[Arkady]

The policy of the United States allowing children born on U.S. soil to be granted citizenship is one of the biggest mistakes that has ever been made by the U.S. Courts. We have Mexican and Central American women who are 7-8 months pregnant coming across the border just to have their baby... 'Once the baby is born - the mother is locked in too - someone has to take care of the child... It is never ending ... The cost for illegal aliens is in the tens fo billions and climbing ... Thailand can find a humane way to send them back - send the mother back too. Adopt the kids out to people who want children - even overseas. Screen the parents - international adoption is not a new concept.

Well USA is a country made by immigrants....if you take away the once illegal immigrants, you have only the american-indians.

The first immigration law in the USA was passed in 1875 named the Page Act. Before that there were many immigrants but they were not illegal because there was no immigration law. Anyone could go th the USA at will.

You need to bear in mind that, after the initial option to convert from British to US nationality expired, US nationality was only obtainable through birth in the US. Amendments to allow children of US citizens born overseas to be American were only added many years later.