Vermiculite

[wrongway]

Hello,

My first post, and what a sexy topic! Does anybody happen to know where vermiculite can be purchased in Isaan? I'm going to be in Korat to get some other things I need on Saturday and Sunday and it would be great if someone from the Korat area knows where I can get this stuff. If I remember correctly, it's sort of like popcorn and comes in big bags. Lightweight stuff.

TIA

[chownah]

I'd look in a garden center.

[wrongway]

Thanks. Okay, anybody know where a large garden center is in Korat (or anywhere between Korat and Ubon, where I live). Never saw the stuff, and my wife, quite a gardener, said she's never heard of it, no less seen it. I think most gardeners here mix their soil with other stuff. I'm actually building an wood-burning brick oven and want the vermiculite for insulation. Anyway, thanks for the help.

[chownah]

Thanks. Okay, anybody know where a large garden center is in Korat (or anywhere between Korat and Ubon, where I live). Never saw the stuff, and my wife, quite a gardener, said she's never heard of it, no less seen it. I think most gardeners here mix their soil with other stuff. I'm actually building an wood-burning brick oven and want the vermiculite for insulation. Anyway, thanks for the help.

Are you making an oven out of bricks or are you making an oven for making bricks?

If you can not find vermiculite you might try rice hull ash. If rice hulls are burned at a low temperature the resulting ash is over 90% amorphous silica which means it makes a reasonably good insulator. Rice hulls can be gotten at any rice mill (called krep kong) or if there is a brick manufacturing business near you you can probably get rice hull ash there since they typically fire bricks with rice hulls as the fuel and so they have big pile of rice hull ash lying around and will give it away free or charge a tiny amount for it (maybe 5 baht per rice bag full...you bring the bag).

[farangnoi]

Vermiculite is a natural material (Mica) wich when heated expands, into a light spongy structure ( Not like popcorn that explodes into a soft material)

Its used as Isolation material and soil (it can contains 5 times it's own weight of water)

There is a growshop in hydrophonics in Bangkok how's selling the vemiculite, at Sukhumvite soi .......38??? I've to look up the right adress for you.

Or PM me.

K.C.

[wrongway]

Thanks,

A bit pissed at the moment but mica that's been "popcorned," as I like to describe it, is a kind of mineral that has been expanded something like 15 times its size through some kind of heating process. I've never measured the actual expansion rate of popcorn, but who cares. I want vermiculite. Available somewhere? In the US or Japan they mix it with soil. Adds a bit of air and a solid substrate. It's also mixed with cement to make a lightweight substance that is heat-retaining yet has some strength to it. Well, I could use rockwool, but there are problems with that. Sorry, a bit complicated. Anyway, the answer to all complicated questions is sleep.

[wrongway]

Thank you Farangnoi and Chownah for your helpful replies. Chownah, you are right about using the ash from rice husks. That is what they use for insulating the charcoal hibachi-like burners you can buy anywhere. I am making an oven out of firebrick to make pizza, bake bread, etc. The rice husk ash will work fine for the insulation, very good idea. I also wanted to use some vermiculite mixed in the concrete base upon which the oven will rest, the bottom ten cm of a total 20 cm as it's recommended to insulate the bottom of the oven (the first 10 cm of concrete retain heat, and the 10 cm under that insulate). The idea is to have a high-mass oven that could, for instance, bake pizza at 450 C in the evening, be closed, and still be about 250 C the next morning for baking bread.

[chownah]

Thank you Farangnoi and Chownah for your helpful replies. Chownah, you are right about using the ash from rice husks. That is what they use for insulating the charcoal hibachi-like burners you can buy anywhere. I am making an oven out of firebrick to make pizza, bake bread, etc. The rice husk ash will work fine for the insulation, very good idea. I also wanted to use some vermiculite mixed in the concrete base upon which the oven will rest, the bottom ten cm of a total 20 cm as it's recommended to insulate the bottom of the oven (the first 10 cm of concrete retain heat, and the 10 cm under that insulate). The idea is to have a high-mass oven that could, for instance, bake pizza at 450 C in the evening, be closed, and still be about 250 C the next morning for baking bread.

I'm hoping that you've got your temperatures wrong...450 C would be 842 degrees F....I used to run a pizza place in the US and we never ran our ovens that hot...in fact our thermometers didn't even go that high!!.....or else my memory has gone bad. Also, 250 C would be 482 degrees F and isn't that a tad bit too hot for bread?

[chownah]

I went out to check about the temperatures just to see if my memory had indeed gone bad....and....I discovered that there is quite range of temps for cooking pizza and your 450 C temp is on the high side but is indeed what some people use....I think it depends on the style of pizza you make. A thin, white crust pizza with a small amount of toppings can be cooked very fast with a very hot oven. In the US where I made pizza we made a whole wheat crust that was moderately thin and we used a thick layer of sauce, cheese, and toppings. If we had our oven too hot the toppings would singe while the crust would still be "raw" on the side where it contacted the suace.....I guess its all a matter of style.

[Brew]

:: Fresh Garden Hydroponics Center ::

57 Sukhumvit 38, Phakanong, Khlongtoey, Bangkok 10110

Tel. 02-7123550, 02-7135254 Fax. 02-7123550

[wrongway]

I went out to check about the temperatures just to see if my memory had indeed gone bad....and....I discovered that there is quite range of temps for cooking pizza and your 450 C temp is on the high side but is indeed what some people use....I think it depends on the style of pizza you make. A thin, white crust pizza with a small amount of toppings can be cooked very fast with a very hot oven. In the US where I made pizza we made a whole wheat crust that was moderately thin and we used a thick layer of sauce, cheese, and toppings. If we had our oven too hot the toppings would singe while the crust would still be "raw" on the side where it contacted the suace.....I guess its all a matter of style.

Chownah,

This topic should have it's name changed. 450C is the "recommended" temperature for pizza done the Naples way-- thin crust, not so heavy on the toppings, as you say. The last two years I lived in Japan (I was there about 14 years), on the weekends I had sort of a hobby restaurant. I used a wood-burning brick oven imported from Italy. I don't think I ever pushed it that high. My pizzas took 3 or 4 minutes to bake (got to turn them as they bake as the edge nearest the fire will burn). They say (there is actually a specification that you have to adhere to if you want to call your pizza "genuine Napoli-style) a pizza should take 2 minutes or less to bake. I'm building an oven with much more mass than the clay one I used in Japan. I'll have it going every day (assuming I have customers!!) and hope to keep it around 400 or so during "pizza hours." Put a cover on the door at 10:00 p.m. and the oven should be at a bread-baking temperature (200 to 250C) in the morning. There is no rule about where temperature is measured. The dome is usually hotter than the hearth when doing pizza. It evens out when you do bread because you don't have the fire going. Your oven would have been convection, but wood-burning ovens cook throuh a combination of, mainly, radiation, followed by convection and conduction (from the hearth it sits upon). I didn't do bread when I was in Japan but since I want to do sandwiches and maybe even sell the bread, I'm intending to learn. Already got a sourdough culture mailed to me from a US company.

Just got back an hour ago from Korat where I picked up a delivery of 250 firebricks. My wife wants me to unload them now because my pickup looks "jep." Now, I wonder if I can just put them all together in a shape resembling an oven. . .

Thanks to you, too, brew. I think I'll go with the ash for the insulation, but I might just pick up enough vermiculite at the place you mentioned to do the insulating concrete I want.

[bergen]

Hello wrongway

Interesting topic, as my wife for months have wanted to build a wood fired oven, to make pizzas and various kinds of bread. I don't know anything about ovens, but I'm happy to see that some do!

I definately have to pay you a visit and take a look at your oven, but maybe you will come and se me first?? Btw - I enjoyed your company and the conversation at the BBQ, and I have your daughters yellow rubber toy (found it on the floor after you left) Keep in touch!!

Trond

[farangnoi]

:: Fresh Garden Hydroponics Center ::

57 Sukhumvit 38, Phakanong, Khlongtoey, Bangkok 10110

Tel. 02-7123550, 02-7135254 Fax. 02-7123550

Tx Brew , That's the one. Lost the adress somewhere.