Burmese Refugees Sold On By Thai Officials

[blaze]

And lets imagine that the government call a fact finding mission- and the fact finding mission determines that high ranking army and police were in fact involved. Then let's suppose that the government gently suggested to the top echelons of each that they discipline the offenders-

Well PM, we would but your fact finding mission is up it's ass and we are going to sue them- so what are you going to do about it?

And just what CAN a government due when the armed forces of a country march to their own drum?

Elected governments in Thailand exist when and if the army permits them to exist- they- the elected governments know there are lines that can not be crossed- and a government crosses those lines at its peril. Now a new line has been drawn- and don't expect this or ANY elected governmnet to face off against the army on this- Either the army, in an attempt to curry favor with the government and populace by looking good to the international community will take it on itself to expose and 'deal with' the miscreants- or- nothing will happen. Nothing CAN happen. TIT as they say.

The notion that the ministry can hold military feet to the fire in this country is- comical in a sick kind of way. Nobody holds those feet unless they are kissing them.

Edited January 21, 2013 by blaze

[bubblegum]

I'm crying out of frustration that nothing in the world can stop this inhuman behavior. Not only in Thailand but world wide. Politics and economics will always stand in the way to decent human behavior.

[FarangTalk]

When the police and the armed forces are corrupted, the state is failed.

This.

Elected governments in Thailand exist when and if the army permits them to exist- they- the elected governments know there are lines that can not be crossed- and a government crosses those lines at its peril.

Also this.

[sunshine51]

About the time you think mankind has hit another historcial low in behavior, someone digs something else up. The fact that this info came from a foreign new source, speaks volumes for just how unconcerned/ill informed the Thai people really are. This trail could lead back to crewing/staffing, Thai owned businesses in this country as well as bordering countries.

For the Thai government to tell the world they, via PR campaigns, how much they are doing to promote human rights is contemptable. The upmost concern here seems to be money, hit them in the pocket book, and you may get their attention. Another example of believe half of what you see and less. of what you hear.

It also speaks volumes as to the Thai media. A foreign correspondant has to reveal what is going on in Thailand right under the local media's nose.

The Thai media has always been a voice of the incumbent government...I can vouch for 30 years of

this behavior. Sadly...in this instance it all boils down to money...and the Thai penchant for it; especially

for those at the top of the food chain in this country. In the real world there is no excuse for this type of

behaviour...but for many of us...Thailand is not the real world...it's just a facade which allows us live out

our years in relative comfort. As for the local media...no balls comes to mind...hence no blue chips either.

Edited January 21, 2013 by sunshine51

[surangw]

This story is generating its own momentum but will it make any difference ?

Probably not much unless it spreads around the world press and they keep on it. The spinners wil step in and take the heat out of it I'm sure.

Story might show up on al jazeera , but probably swept under the carpet by most western media.

[Roadman]

The Thai Army is the Navy as well? Gee...I learn something new each day.

[webfact]

Thai army officials 'involved' in people smuggling

BANGKOK, Jan 22, 2013 (AFP) - Thai authorities said on Monday they were investigating allegations that army officials were involved in the trafficking of Rohingya boat people fleeing deadly sectarian violence in Myanmar.

Rohingya arriving in Thailand risk falling into the hands of people smugglers who demand large sums of money to transport them to Malaysia, while those unable to pay are believed to be forced into labour to pay the fees.

"There were army officials involved -- some local unit heads," a senior Thai intelligence official who did not want to be named told AFP.

Normally Rohingya come ashore on Thailand's southwestern Andaman coast but recently they have been found in the province of Songkhla bordering Malaysia on the other side of the peninsula, he said.

"They could not be there if there were no government officials involved. The trafficking will involve brokers. They could have paid 40,000-60,000 baht ($1,350-2,000) to travel to Malaysia overland," the official added.

National Security Council secretary general Paradorn Pattanathabutr said the army was investigating the claims, which first appeared in local media, but up to now had found no evidence of wrongdoing.

"If we found somebody guilty, they will be punished," he added.

Described by the UN as among the most persecuted minority groups in the world, Rohingya have for years trickled abroad to neighbouring Bangladesh and, increasingly, to Muslim-majority Malaysia.

Myanmar views its population of roughly 800,000 Rohingya as illegal Bangladeshi immigrants and denies them citizenship.

A explosion of tensions between Buddhist and Muslim communities in Myanmar's western state of Rakhine since June 2012 has triggered a huge exodus of Rohingya, mostly heading for Malaysia.

The UN estimates that about 13,000 boat people fled Myanmar and Bangladesh in 2012 with some dying during the perilous sea voyage. Hundreds have been detained in Thailand in recent weeks.

Buddhist-Muslim clashes have left at least 180 people dead in Rakhine since June. More than 110,000 people, mostly Rohingya, have been displaced.

A spokesman for Thailand's Internal Security Operation Command, whose officers have been accused by local media of involvement in the people smuggling, said he was aware of the allegations but could not confirm or deny them.

"We have to investigate but up to now we don't have any information," he said.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-01-22

[LuckyLew]

Thais are very good at two things

Corruption and opportunism

[NongKhaiKid]

Obama's inauguration has pushed this out of the headlines, let's hope it's only temporary so the government can't wriggle off the hook

[arthurboy]

This sordid story must not be forgotten or brushed under the carpet.

The Thai media has a clear responsibility to publish and follow this story to its conclusion.

There has to be a thorough and transparent investigation by the Thai authorities who should invite a internationally recognised independent third party to witness and monitor the inquiry process.

Enough is enough.

[chooka]

I always wondered what those big police vans were used for..........Now I know.

Cattle trucks

[geriatrickid]

Geriatrickid, the post was ok. until you sort of said the government have no control over the navy ???? and implied the demo's from the south may have some financial gain. ????? if not what did you say cause thats how I got the gist of it.

Isn't W.Goldberg.....sorry I meant the PM (sister act) she responsible here in ALL matters ??? isn't that what she and the cabinet get paid for, and were elected for. It is called control-democracy but how can you control here when most of the top brass are involved in some cash benefit indirectly or directly, Corruption is rife and getting worse. So I blame the said government in power whoever it is.

Ok, let's deal with the political aspect. As mentioned in the post above, former PM Abhisit had a similar crisis. He didn't get much traction and the army decided what to do. I expect a similar outcome with the current PM. As you know, the military states that it does not answer to the civilian government. Do I blame Abhisit for his inability to obtain concrete results? Not in this case. He had no way to obtain compliance. His position as PM in large part relied on the army not undermining his administration. Although PM Yingluck is in a slightly better position as she won an election and is still popular (as far as Thai PM popularity goes) , she cannot afford to upset the military. She needs them to behave, or she too will find herself dealing with an officer corps seeking to replace her with someone more attentive to the army's whims. The PM does not have a position of strength where she can take on the military, and/or the corrupt police that are allegedly implicated. What she might be able to do is to knock them down a notch or two, but I don't know if she has the courage or the self assurance to do that. All statements to date indicate that she is more concerned about the long term goals of the PTP and recognizes that she needs the military's tacit support to advance the PTP agenda. Have you noticed that the army general implicated gets along rather well with the PM?

The south is a Democrat stronghold with the Phuket region untouchable, providing the votes and the funds to support the party. PM Abhisit had no influence over the southern kleptocracy and it explains why he was to a large extent unable to deal with the out of control corruption in the region, especially on Phuket.

No doubt that some PTP linked officials and supporters are involved up on the Burma border, however, the PTP gets off somewhat scot free in this matter. It is not because they are honest or corruption free. Rather, it is because they have not had an opportunity to engage in the vile exploitation that is associated with the Rohingya boat people. The local politicians do not have much of an opportunity to exploit anyone since the border areas and crossing points come under the military. In plain language, they are the last pigs to the trough. I'm sure some of them would be implicated if they had the opportunity. As well, the Burmese border has a lot of Thai and foreign NGO's and charities that are monitoring things. Having a set of eyes watching encourages compassion.

The boat people are entering via the south and the NGO's and foreign observers are not there. My understanding is that humanitarian organizations have been kept away and blocked from checking on the welfare of these poor people. The military and the police say it is for security reasons. The local government officials say it is to keep civil order. The central government is not in a position of strength to say otherwise, especially since has few supporters in the region.

The fact of the matter is that this disgusting situation demonstrates that the military and the police do whatever they please and that there is little oversight. No advanced military would tolerate the hint of human trafficing. One doesn't see it with Singapore, or South Korea, or Nato forces. Even the South African military has a strong position on the matter and it is a nation beset by refugees. However, Thailand has a problem and the baht stops with the command officers. It is their duty, their obligation to ensure that if there is human trafficing, Thai military personnel are not implicated. The civilian government has little control over the military. As that is the reality, then the responsibility to deal with the allegations of trafficing rest with the general.

[chooka]

With Chalerm and his cohorts eliminating the scams and honest corruption a guy has to diversify to make a living. Those Mercs don't come cheap with the 300% import duties. You take this little business away from honest hardworking people and they will have to find other avenues like rounding up farangs to ship to market.

[cbrer]

I'm crying out of frustration that nothing in the world can stop this inhuman behavior. Not only in Thailand but world wide. Politics and economics will always stand in the way to decent human behavior.

Mans inhumanity to man is not always linked to politics and economics, it is often down to human nature.

We are not the supremely built beings that some people like to think we are.

It is highly evident in Asia where many people simply enjoy mistreating others.

Edited January 22, 2013 by cbrer

[jocko]

I always wondered what those big police vans were used for..........Now I know.

I thought the vans where used to collect the tea money.

Now they have found another use for them as a slave bus .

Makes me sick it's becoming harder to accept the Thai government attitude to all this corruption you can only hope that one day that there will be a serious clean up but dont hold yoyr breath

[TackyToo]

The more I know about Thailand, the less I understand "thainess" & their often qouted "moral values." At least I learn something here.

[renaissanc]

The officials will no doubt be transferred to an inactive post / desk right next to their current desk.

[sunshine51]

In my cynical view...this fits the situation....

[Baerboxer]

I dont suppose this is going to help Thailands chances of not getting downgraded to the tier 3 human trafficking list?

Or is it going to make the US reevaluate things and make a special case tier 4 for Thailand?

The reaction of Scandinavian countries especially Norway and Sweden will be interesting. This block has a well defined position on human rights and has asserted itself on the world stage in this regard, especially in the middle east. This is also a group who have nationals with a significant presence in Thailand. Will it maintain a consistent position with Thailand and put the retirement investments of tens of thousands of their nationals at risk? Doubtful.

The revelations are serious and open Thailand up to the imposition of trade and travel sanctions. The EU has imposed such sanctions on African nations that had similar situations. The hypocrisy of the west is about to raise its ugly head as Thailand most likely gets a pass, but I do note that it took some time before the Cote Ivoire with its slaves in the cocoa plantations was hit with sanctions. Will the southern farms and plantations using the Rohingya slaves be hit with the anti human trafficking sanctions? Will Thailand's rice exporters have to provide certification of being slave free if they wish to sell rice into western markets? The government has a time bomb on its hands and unless the PM acts fast and makes some arrests and disciplines the military and police that are implicated, this will blow up.

I note that some will use this tragedy as an excuse top blame the government. Unfortunately, the navy personnel implicated do not answer to the civilian government and the politicians involved come from the Democrat dominated south. The government may not wish to provoke a confrontation with the Thai military, nor with the Democrats. What this does illustrate is that beneath the thin veneer of calm in Thailand is a bubbling cauldron of financial interests that are in conflict with the elected government, and that the government does not have full control of the nation.

That's right GK - PTP are as pure as the driven snow! Never a corrupt thought. Are you still driven to tears by the PM's compassionate humanitarian treatment of these poor souls?

Get a grip - if you're the government you are in control. The buck stops there. Let's see how vigorous and effective the government investigations are.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Baerboxer

[Baerboxer]

This sordid story must not be forgotten or brushed under the carpet.

The Thai media has a clear responsibility to publish and follow this story to its conclusion.

There has to be a thorough and transparent investigation by the Thai authorities who should invite a internationally recognised independent third party to witness and monitor the inquiry process.

Enough is enough.

I admire your sentiments, and agree. But I doubt anything will change. Too many people making too much money.

Edited January 22, 2013 by Baerboxer

[Hans Sierhuis]

isn't it great all these posters hanging around Thailand, saying stop human trafficking hilarious stuff

[sunshine51]

isn't it great all these posters hanging around Thailand, saying stop human trafficking hilarious stuff

At least we're being vocal about the situation.

Perhaps so it doesn't get swept under the carpet.

Edited January 22, 2013 by sunshine51

[EyesWideOpen]

isn't it great all these posters hanging around Thailand, saying stop human trafficking hilarious stuff

You are right, no need to worry about a bit of local trafficking.......Unless they start rounding up and selling

farangs. Then I will have to put my foot down...

I guess the next logical move to increase profits by this lovely group of traffickers would be to start killing

the refugees and selling their body parts to China. They would be worth a LOT more than the measly 1300 bucks

they are getting for them now.

Edited January 22, 2013 by EyesWideOpen

[rockderk]

You might want to read this: http://malaysiaburmese.wordpress.com/about/ The slave market in Sadao has been operating for years. It's only the sheer volume of potential victims [ hard to hide 1000 people ] in the recent shipments that has made

[Pimay1]

isn't it great all these posters hanging around Thailand, saying stop human trafficking hilarious stuff

And your point is? Please explain as I am from Kentucky and don't fully understand.

[drdoom6996]

And this is a surprise to whom????

[MunterHunter]

isn't it great all these posters hanging around Thailand, saying stop human trafficking hilarious stuff

What do you suggest? Get out there and protest the government? Block these guys by using our bodies as shields?

Give that a try and let us know how you get on...

[Markaew]

Nice way for Thai officials to say "I don't give a sh_t"

[EyesWideOpen]

I think in a regular country the purpose of the military is to protect borders from invaders. And the military is generally under the control of the civilian government. But people here seem to be implying that the military is above the government, and will not be punished for their mind boggling actions regarding this trafficking. Wait, does that make Thailand the same as Burma, run by a military junta, but with fake " democratic "elections to keep foreign investments rolling into Thailand ??

Edited January 22, 2013 by Scott
formatting

[ginjag]

I think in a regular country the purpose of the military is to protect borders from invaders. And the military is generally under

the control of the civilian government. But people here seem to be implying that the military is above the government, and will

not be punished for their mind boggling actions regarding this trafficking. Wait, does that make Thailand the same

as Burma, run by a military junta, but with fake " democratic "elections to keep foreign investments rolling into Thailand ??

Seems to me there are at least 4 outfits running things here, all are indepenant of the others,

ARMY POLICE big BUSINESS GOVERNMENT ......now who wants to put them in the correct order of power,, sure to be some different opinions. ????