Paying Overstay

[erg]

A bit of a strange subject, but i will post it anyway.

My wife has a buisines in Chiang Rai, therefour, i speak to a lot of her customers, who are mainly expats.

Now allready two people told me a strange story, they go to Mai Sai, lets say on 22 feb. in there passports the visa stamp says 22 feb. they show up on 22 feb........And the officer says he has to pay two days overstay (400 .

The man asks what this is about, and he is aked to step aside, he is told to calm down, and an other officer comes out of the office and tells him that when an officer tells him he is overstay he IS overstay.

The man paid the fine, got a recieve paper, but his pasport is not stamped overstay, as they normally do.

To everybody perhaps a strange story, but a true one, as i saw his pasport.

Similair stories come from Chiang Sean, where people who arrive on the last day of their 30 days are being refused to leave the country, and being send to Mai Sai.

[Noel]

A bit of a strange subject, but i will post it anyway.

My wife has a buisines in Chiang Rai, therefour, i speak to a lot of her customers, who are mainly expats.

Now allready two people told me a strange story, they go to Mai Sai, lets say on 22 feb. in there passports the visa stamp says 22 feb. they show up on 22 feb........And the officer says he has to pay two days overstay (400 .

The man asks what this is about, and he is aked to step aside, he is told to calm down, and an other officer comes out of the office and tells him that when an officer tells him he is overstay he IS overstay.

The man paid the fine, got a recieve paper, but his pasport is not stamped overstay, as they normally do.

To everybody perhaps a strange story, but a true one, as i saw his pasport.

Similair stories come from Chiang Sean, where people who arrive on the last day of their 30 days are being refused to leave the country, and being send to Mai Sai.

Yes, a very strange story...

[lopburi3]

I believe, unless it has been changed, the stamp says "until" Feb 22. That would mean you must be out of Thailand on the 21st (before the 22nd) in my English reading, and at least one immigration office I came into contact with some years ago confirmed this. But I admit to never putting it to a test.

[Tywais]

I believe, unless it has been changed, the stamp says "until" Feb 22. That would mean you must be out of Thailand on the 21st (before the 22nd) in my English reading, and at least one immigration office I came into contact with some years ago confirmed this. But I admit to never putting it to a test.

Actual wording is "Application of stay is permitted up to" DATE Meaning is the same as yours but a little difficult to interpret what they are saying. Guess would have to say "up to and including" to include that date stamp. The question is why two days penalty and 2nd why no stamp to the effect. Sounds like a little overtime payment.

[Noel]

I believe, unless it has been changed, the stamp says "until" Feb 22. That would mean you must be out of Thailand on the 21st (before the 22nd) in my English reading, and at least one immigration office I came into contact with some years ago confirmed this. But I admit to never putting it to a test.

Actual wording is "Application of stay is permitted up to" DATE Meaning is the same as yours but a little difficult to interpret what they are saying. Guess would have to say "up to and including" to include that date stamp. The question is why two days penalty and 2nd why no stamp to the effect. Sounds like a little overtime payment.

Not that I believe it really matters in the context of the claims made in the initial post, but is the actual wording not: 'Admitted until'?

[scotsman]

I was once late by 20 min over the date on my visa at the airport due to a computer fault but I only got a 1 day overstay with no fine. If as you say you have to be out of the country 1 day before your date on the stamp then I would have got 2 day overstay. I also go on my visa run on the last day of my stamp and there is nothing said at the imigration check point. I would say that the date stamped in your passport was the last day up to 12-00 midnight that you can stay in thailand. I think this was tea money.

[Axel]

I believe, unless it has been changed, the stamp says "until" Feb 22. That would mean you must be out of Thailand on the 21st (before the 22nd) in my English reading, and at least one immigration office I came into contact with some years ago confirmed this. But I admit to never putting it to a test.

Actual wording is "Application of stay is permitted up to" DATE Meaning is the same as yours but a little difficult to interpret what they are saying. Guess would have to say "up to and including" to include that date stamp. The question is why two days penalty and 2nd why no stamp to the effect. Sounds like a little overtime payment.

Not that I believe it really matters in the context of the claims made in the initial post, but is the actual wording not: 'Admitted until'?

Admitted until .... and the date shown there is the day you have to leave.

A few of my friends did leave on such last day. No problem.

If you extent, the wording is" Extension of stay permitted up to ....."

Overstay: 1st day is free but from 2nd day you pay Baht 200 incl. that first day.

[Tywais]

Not that I believe it really matters in the context of the claims made in the initial post, but is the actual wording not: 'Admitted until'?

As you say really doesn't matter but curious as to why different responses. From my passport:

Edited February 25, 2006 by tywais

[lopburi3]

The different wording is between an extension of stay stamp and a permitted to stay (which is what you get at a border crossing). Not the same but in English they would both indicate you should be out the country before the date indicated. I agree that this is not what has generally been accepted.

[Tywais]

The different wording is between an extension of stay stamp and a permitted to stay (which is what you get at a border crossing). Not the same but in English they would both indicate you should be out the country before the date indicated. I agree that this is not what has generally been accepted.

Thanks, makes sense. Haven't had a border crossing stamp in many years so forgot the differences. Also I have gotten my 1-year extension on a couple of occasions on the date the stamp shows with no problem other then being chided by immigration to not come on the last day. Maybe in case there were complications.

[david96]

The last entry in my passport.

ARRIVE -1 SEPT 2005

ADMITTED UNTIL 30 SEPT 2005

30 DAYS My entry stamp would have expired at 24.00hrs so one would have to clear immigration

before this time. In my case I departed on 21 Sept 2005.

[zzap]

Never experienced anything like this, and I frquently leave on the last day.

Overstay: 1st day is free but from 2nd day you pay Baht 200 incl. that first day.

This applies at Bangkok airport, but not at any landcrossing, there it's 200 bt for the first day already.

[sriracha john]

Admitted to stay OR Permitted to stay is up to midnight that date stamped (granted that border posts don't stay open that late).

The OP scenario, in light of no overstay stamp in their passports AND being told to pay for 2 days , indicates some corrupt Immigration practices. Not unheard of, but thankfully not too common.

Certainly would be intimidating to be told, "if the officer says you are overstay, then you ARE overstay."

[lung]

i never been to mai sai ...

but i go allways on the last day

never happen some like this

[Noel]

Admitted to stay OR Permitted to stay is up to midnight that date stamped (granted that border posts don't stay open that late).

The OP scenario, in light of no overstay stamp in their passports AND being told to pay for 2 days , indicates some corrupt Immigration practices. Not unheard of, but thankfully not too common.

Certainly would be intimidating to be told, "if the officer says you are overstay, then you ARE overstay."

Agreed!

However, the OP stated: "The man paid the fine, got a recieve paper, but his pasport is not stamped overstay, as they normally do."

I find it very difficult to believe that a corrupt officer would document his action by issuing a receipt...

[sriracha john]

Admitted to stay OR Permitted to stay is up to midnight that date stamped (granted that border posts don't stay open that late).

The OP scenario, in light of no overstay stamp in their passports AND being told to pay for 2 days , indicates some corrupt Immigration practices. Not unheard of, but thankfully not too common.

Certainly would be intimidating to be told, "if the officer says you are overstay, then you ARE overstay."

Agreed!

However, the OP stated: "The man paid the fine, got a recieve paper, but his pasport is not stamped overstay, as they normally do."

I find it very difficult to believe that a corrupt officer would document his action by issuing a receipt...

I don't find it difficult. Without a scanned copy of it to review, we don't know if it is any kind of receipt at all. It could just easily be some numbers with Thai written on an laundry receipt.

[Noel]

Admitted to stay OR Permitted to stay is up to midnight that date stamped (granted that border posts don't stay open that late).

The OP scenario, in light of no overstay stamp in their passports AND being told to pay for 2 days , indicates some corrupt Immigration practices. Not unheard of, but thankfully not too common.

Certainly would be intimidating to be told, "if the officer says you are overstay, then you ARE overstay."

Agreed!

However, the OP stated: "The man paid the fine, got a recieve paper, but his pasport is not stamped overstay, as they normally do."

I find it very difficult to believe that a corrupt officer would document his action by issuing a receipt...

I don't find it difficult. Without a scanned copy of it to review, we don't know if it is any kind of receipt at all. It could just easily be some numbers with Thai written on an laundry receipt.

Yes, that could well be the case.

However, if that is what happened, the officer would therefore have not 'documented his action' as there would obviously be no reference to an overstay fine or the Immigration Office.

[Maestro]

I believe, unless it has been changed, the stamp says "until" Feb 22.

Actual wording is "Application of stay is permitted up to" DATE

Tywais, where in the world did you get that? My last entry stamp was “ADMITTED 25 DEC 2005 UNTIL 23 JAN 2006” (see attachment), and it is my understanding that I could have taken a flight out of Thailand on 23 January without overstaying.

--------------

Maestro

Edited February 26, 2006 by maestro

[zzap]

If I remember correctly, for an overstay you'll have to sign, twice, in a large A-4 size book, and again, once,in a smaller one. At the end, you'll be given a receipt, which should have the official Thai seal at the top.

Anything else, I'd make a big stink.

I won't be charged 2 days overstay for doing nothing wrong.

[Maestro]

in there passports the visa stamp says 22 feb. they show up on 22 feb........And the officer says he has to pay two days overstay (400 .

...

The man paid the fine, got a recieve paper, but his pasport is not stamped overstay, as they normally do.

...a strange story, but a true one, as i saw his pasport.

If this is true it is indeed very suspicious. Just a pity the entry and exit stamps in question and the receipt for the overstay fine are not posted here to add weight to this extraordinary report. Seeing is believing.

At the moment it is hearsay and a recollection of what you believe you have seen in somebody else’s passport. Are you quite sure the entry stamp was not “ADMITTED 22 JAN 2006” and the passport holder mistakenly thought he had permission to stay for one month, until 22 February, ignoring the “UNTIL 20 FEB” stamped in his passport?

--------------

Maestro

[Tywais]

I believe, unless it has been changed, the stamp says "until" Feb 22.

Actual wording is "Application of stay is permitted up to" DATE

Tywais, where in the world did you get that? My last entry stamp was “ADMITTED 25 DEC 2005 UNTIL 23 JAN 2006” (see attachment), and it is my understanding that I could have taken a flight out of Thailand on 23 January without overstaying.

--------------

Maestro

Scanned directly from my passport. But as lopburi pointed out, the differences were between border crossing stamp and visa extension to which I acknowledged my misunderstanding.

And as I also said I have renewed on the stamped date without a problem.

Edited February 27, 2006 by tywais

[erg]

I think i will see the man in question tomorrow.

I will seriously question him

and when i say seriosly i mean seriously

[astral]

The man paid the fine, got a recieve paper, but his pasport is not stamped overstay, as they normally do.

Is it possible to scan and post the "receipt", so we can see if it is official...................

I suspect it is not and we are talking Tea Money.

[thatguy]

lets say your flight arrives BKK 23:45 (airline sched). you get to the immigration / passport post

at 0:15. i've been stamped in by the schedule, not by the new date. ( even when the plane was 2

hours late).

similarly, upon exit, the departure is counted from when the plane leaves, even if you clear

passport control before midnight.

is this why they require your boarding pass?

tg

[spacebass]

I believe, unless it has been changed, the stamp says "until" Feb 22. That would mean you must be out of Thailand on the 21st (before the 22nd) in my English reading, and at least one immigration office I came into contact with some years ago confirmed this. But I admit to never putting it to a test.

Dear Lopburi3,

I am afraid having just looked 'until' up in the dictionary I cannot agree with your analysis.

e.g. If someone says 'They cannot leave until Friday' it does not mean they will leave on Thursday. It most definitely means they have to leave on Friday.

Plus in practical terms I and most others have left the country on the 'until' date stamped in their passport on about 20 occasions without any question and I do not believe the Thai Immigation people are as lax or as generous to allow this to happen if what you say is true, which as far as the English Language and Thai Immigration are concerned it certainly is not.

Sorry.

Edited March 9, 2006 by spacebass

[lopburi3]

Needless to say I do not agree. The wording is not that you cannot leave until Friday but that you may stay "until" a specified date. The word "until" followed by a date means "up to" not though in my understanding of the English language.

I also have not had a problem but I have been told by immigration on a crossing the day before my "until" stamp that I had to leave that day. He may have been wrong but I did not test it.

As I also pointed out I take the conservative approach and believe that is the best course when advising people.

[Axel]

Interesting, I always thought until.... does include the day mentioned.

But than, I would not want to discuss the English language with a Thai officer

[Tywais]

But than, I would not want to discuss the English language with a Thai officer

Good point. The symantics is irrelevant, it's what immigration thinks it means.

[lopburi3]

I believe they have used the wrong word myself. And that it probably should be through. But the meaning of "until" is "up to", not through in my understanding, so I believe it could cause a problem. I had not been concerned about it until immigration in Sadao pointed it out a few years back.