American Accused Of Unlawful Encounter With 13 Year Old Girl On Pattaya Beach

[Baerboxer]

Obviojusly this girl has done this many times, and more than likely a teenage prostitute. The authorities know that or they would not have been monitoring her. She probably approached the guy.

And does that make him innocent???

[sfbandung]

Can one have a "legal encounter" with a 13 year old?

It sounds crook to me from every angle, It's hard to know whether to be sad, outraged or stunned.

I have a 12 yr old daughter, the thought of her being in a position like this in a year is shattering.

[Jingthing]

Obviojusly this girl has done this many times, and more than likely a teenage prostitute. The authorities know that or they would not have been monitoring her. She probably approached the guy.

And does that make him innocent???

It doesn't. The law is the law and he may indeed be in deep trouble, but the ETHICAL question is whether he really was out looking for underage sex and whether he really thought the girl he had hired was underage. It sounds like there is some doubt about that question.

[meatballs]

I have seen a few very young looking girls being pimped out there in years past. Sometimes you can't tell if they are underage. I'm sure many guys take them out without knowing they just slept with an underage girl.

[Jingthing]

Can one have a "legal encounter" with a 13 year old?

It sounds crook to me from every angle, It's hard to know whether to be sad, outraged or stunned.

I have a 12 yr old daughter, the thought of her being in a position like this in a year is shattering.

So for you it is all about raw emotion. Never mind the facts about what actually happened in this case.

[Jingthing]

I have seen a few very young looking girls being pimped out there in years past. Sometimes you can't tell if they are underage. I'm sure many guys take them out without knowing they just slept with an underage girl.

They would have almost nothing to lose by lying about their age to punters. The punters have everything to lose.

[sfbandung]

Can one have a "legal encounter" with a 13 year old?

It sounds crook to me from every angle, It's hard to know whether to be sad, outraged or stunned.

I have a 12 yr old daughter, the thought of her being in a position like this in a year is shattering.

So for you it is all about raw emotion. Never mind the facts about what actually happened in this case.

You misunderstand me jt. That is exactly what I am saying. We don't know the facts. Is someone else pulling the strings? Did he really have no idea of her age? I merely say that if she is 13 it is sad, I can't help but personalise it as I have a daughter near to her alleged age.

[spectre324]

What's all this over the top conservative language about. Your city has thousands of prostitutes running around and mass corruption. Your country obviously doesn't mind these activities so just tell it how it is.

As far as the guy is concerned. Lock him up, he is sick !!

howm would you know? was the girl hooking? sounds like it to me! and the police let them go into the guest house?

[cup-O-coffee]

The problem begins and ends at "Officers from the Police Region 2 Child and Women Protection Unit were monitoring the 13 year old girl around 4am on Tuesday Morning".

That's where the problem begins and ends. End of story.

Beyond that, I will wager any children being allowed in an envioronment like this would be ripe for the pickings anywhere in the world, whether the children are indoctrinated into this kind of thing, or whether they are your children or my children.

It makes me wonder if my son were to ever wander out of my sight and get lost (a legitimate fear that every father has), if these bastard scum would "monitor" him before contriving a thought to instantly come to him and provide aid and protection? Now I really feel good about runaways and lost children being "monitored" by the police.

[MikeThaison]

The laws are very clear here and in the US. Just because she said she was 19 does not excuse anything. Statutory Rape laws are the same in the states, even if you meet a underage girl in a bar where she has a fake id you are still held liable.

This LOS, women 25 look 13 so I can only imagine a 13 yr looking well, like a 13 year old.

[lemoncake]

The laws are very clear here and in the US. Just because she said she was 19 does not excuse anything. Statutory Rape laws are the same in the states, even if you meet a underage girl in a bar where she has a fake id you are still held liable.

This LOS, women 25 look 13 so I can only imagine a 13 yr looking well, like a 13 year old.

Not excusing his actions, but at 4 am he was most likely tanked, and could hardly tell the difference between man or woman let alone the age, HOWEVER police as OP states was watching the girl, did they not think to remove her or were they waiting for a prey to extort or make an example of?

[terrythai]

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

[NoshowJones]

I am normally quite sceptical of the police and to be honest I think they are probably the most incompetent and corrupt bunch i've ever heard of but on this occasion it seems they might of done some good work.

The fact that they seemed to put out a girl who could look older makes me suspicious but I suppose the only reason why they would of set this up is if the guy is a repeat offender.

Not the only reason, they might know the guy is rich.If so that would mean thousands for them, dollars, not Baht.

[Radar501]

"Officers from the Police Region 2 Child and Women Protection Unit were monitoring the 13 year old girl around 4am on Tuesday Morning".

More like using her as jail bait I would say.

Their task is to protect children, yet they allowed an adult male to approach this girl on Beach Road, chat with her, walk her back to a hotel room and be in the process of undressing before taking ANY preventative action.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Radar501

[brewsterbudgen]

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

I doubt very much that the girl was pre-pubescent, so it's hardly paedophilia.

[montereyjp]

As one poster stated remind oneself to check ID. But as other have stated it is often hard to tell how old these girls are.. I find it interesting that the reporter stated the police where monitoring the 13 year old, how did the police know she was thirteen? It implies she has been rounded up before for hanging out at the coconut bar and as such could be considered entrapment but not in LOS. I cut the guy some slack as I assume he was drunk, maybe new to Pattaya, and took her words she was 19... Now why did the hotel staff / security not ask for her ID? Hmmm, yes some hotels never do but in this case maybe it would have saved this guys assuming they would have been keen enough to actually look at her DOB. If she did have a fake ID would this have exonerated the guy? Since they never consummated the act and assuming she did have a fake ID, would the police just take her into custody? Do you think at any point during this arrest the guy could have bought his way out of it? Since again they never had sex what is the guilty of? I assume he was not openly looking for young girls, at the most he is guilty of being drunk and using bad judgement. As far as the US and as someone mentioned double jeopardy there are new laws that apparently get around this and the guy could be arrested again upon his return to the US. I do not know this guy but maybe he is a perv then he does deserve all the trouble coming his way or maybe he is just a drunken idiot who as stated never had sex with the girl but will be judge and treated as if he did... Again a word to the wise P4P people check ID, check ID, and as I have seen some state in other threads if you have any doubts she is not of age leave her alone and there are plenty of other willing ladies who are clearly of age...

[DiNiro]

Officers from the Police Region 2 Child and Women Protection Unit were monitoring the 13 year old girl around 4am on Tuesday Morning and were about to detain her and take her into care when they saw an approach by the American,

Why do I smell a set up ?

Entrapment to defraud the guy or maybe it was a bust for show, since it made the paper.

Real police work? Fat chance.

This is the same beach that the same police have been allowing the jet ski criminals, assault and rob visitors for YEARS!

Is the recent publicity/pressure on the jet ski criminals forcing the police to look elsewhere for the lost income?

[lemoncake]

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

valid points if the whole incident took place in a shopping mall or elsewhere during "normal" hours, NOT at 4am on the beach.

do you know many 13 year old hanging around on the streets at 4am?

[NoshowJones]

You mean ID card, have to be 15 for one of these, if no card, then they are underage. Anyway, what 13 year old Thai girl would be carrying a passport?

[WayneThompson]

I've met Neal before while diving.

He seemed like such a good bloke.

He was a very funny guy. Ex US serviceman.

[tragickingdom]

This is how police forces worldwide catch most criminals: by sheer luck and coincidence. But why where they after the girl or was it simply entrapment and is the police using the girl as bait?

[prestburypark]

I would like to see a timeline..where she was before she went out, where they started monitoring her, why they did not pick her up on sight if she was going to be taken into care?

But it could be that she was with the authorities already and was "let out"? Then followed? This is the hub of the sting operation after all. And if soliciting is illegal, who really approached whom?

No sympathy for paedos from me, but this stinks of a setup. Has she got a history of soliciting? Too many questionable things here.

[terrythai]

A Paedophile is a paedophile is a paedophile!

People trying to make excuses for this behaviour because she probably approached him, and she lied about her age and he may not have known her true age are pathetic.

If you are not a paedophile you do not proposition a girl without ensuring she is of legal age especially when the majority of asian girls look younger than what they are.

If you are not sure of her age, but you are certain you are not a paedophile, then you walk away.

I doubt very much that the girl was pre-pubescent, so it's hardly paedophilia.

It is what it is.

(generally age 11 years or younger, though specific diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13)

[BOBBYTIN]

If it's a setup then that would make me respect the police work even more.

Setup or not, a 13 year old in broad morning daylight and wanting to have sex with her is a very lock-uppable offense no matter what the circumstances.

(Yes I'd take a more sympathetic view if it was a dolled up 15 year old at 3am at some disco.)

So 4 am is broad daylight in your part of Thailand ?

Did you look at the picture of the girl in the article? She's as tall as the officers surrounding her.

I smell a rat.

i know this guy,he is a nice bloke,sorry to see this,but a 13 year old out at 3am,on the beach,i does sound a bit suspect.

[monty]

Can one have a "legal encounter" with a 13 year old?

It sounds crook to me from every angle, It's hard to know whether to be sad, outraged or stunned.

I have a 12 yr old daughter, the thought of her being in a position like this in a year is shattering.

Chance of her getting in that position is smallish at best.

It is the difference of parents trying to provide for and protecting their children, as opposed to families encouraging their daughters to hit the big city and try to make a living (blink blink) good enough to allow perpetual drunkenness of, and new motorbikes / ute for, the family members back home.

What on earth is she doing there at 4 am????????

[BOBBYTIN]

I've met Neal before while diving.

He seemed like such a good bloke.

He was a very funny guy. Ex US serviceman.

i live near him,and ,yes he is a nice bloke,hope this is cleared soon,at this moment his company dont know this news yet.

[Jingthing]

Points that should be in his defense in a fair system:

He did ask her age.

She did lie about her age.

Is it conceivable that her look could have been of legal age?

How drunk was he?

How is his vision?

Entrapment is used by different countries. However for pedo entrapment, it is much more ethical if they can DOCUMENT the accused was looking for underage and believed the victim was underage. Classic example: police stings using internet chat sites. In this case, both of those key elements may be missing.

Catching real pedos is one thing. Catching accidental pedos that really aren't motivated that way is kind of tragic.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Jingthing

[OMGImInPattaya]

In a case like this, is the accused held on remand or given bail?

If convicted, would he be deported (after serving time in Thailand) and, if so, would he face charges in the US?

Bail is possible, if convicted it means blacklisting.

V

There will be no charges in the US if he is sentenced in Thailand. You cannot be convicted twice for the same offence. If he would skip bail and flee the country to the US he could face prosecution in the US.

This is not really correct because the exact crime that could/would be charged in each jurisdiction most likely is different or the full panoply of charges wouldn't be made in Thailand so there would be these additional criminal counts that could be charged by the US authorities.

Basically, this guy is screwed.

[peacetrain72]

What about the girls. Not much hope to be anything else 'but', in some places like Pattaya. Was disconcerting to see two year old girls during songkran being cheered on by farang and thai alike for dancing gogo on top of the bar. Great education and sadly there will always be people willing to exploit these kids.

Thai jail for 4-20yrs, you think that would sufficient deterant.

[Mario2008]

In a case like this, is the accused held on remand or given bail?

If convicted, would he be deported (after serving time in Thailand) and, if so, would he face charges in the US?

Bail is possible, if convicted it means blacklisting.

V

There will be no charges in the US if he is sentenced in Thailand. You cannot be convicted twice for the same offence. If he would skip bail and flee the country to the US he could face prosecution in the US.

This is not really correct because the exact crime that could/would be charged in each jurisdiction most likely is different or the full panoply of charges wouldn't be made in Thailand so there would be these additional criminal counts that could be charged by the US authorities.

Basically, this guy is screwed.

There could be additional charges, but not something as "statutory rape" as for that he would already have been convicted.

But that kind of additional charges are not that likely, most will be already dealt with in the Thai convistion. What is more likly is that he could face measures as that he might have problems getting a new US-passport to travel abroad, needs to register as a sex-offender, get parol supervison, etc.