Concern Over Plan To Reduce Homework: Thai Education

[Lucie]

Robby exactly. I am an English teacher for Anuban 2 and Prathom 4/5/6 in the far north in Phrae Province. My students do get assigned homework, but it is never more than 30-45 mins a week, and they always learn about it in class; it is just application of what we went over. The assignments change every week so there is constant need to think outside the box when doing assignments. I encourage creativity, and the students are rewarded for their level of work.

My school is a public Government school, and yes the students have a good deal of homework. But many of my students advanced to the regional competitions in Chiang Mai just last month, and 3 of the teams have advanced to compete in Bangkok for best in the country in Computer Science, Science and Math.

I think that the system of "all Thais" does not apply. Yes, there are schools that are exceptions to the rule and have extremely low standards and fail to achieve them. There are also the schools with teachers and faculty that care, and will truly go the extra mile for their students. I believe most schools fall into the latter.

Well, it seems that you know how to get value out of homework - just a little, well-explained beforehand, to reinforce what's been learned in school. I wish more teachers could do that.

But I disagree on your method for judging a school's effectiveness. Entering and winning competitions is not a mark of success. It is part of the constant quest (by school administrators) for recognition, status, and one-upmanship. Students in our school are always in competitions, but I rarely find that the experience taught them anything other than rote recitals of their speech / project.

A good school, and a good teacher, encourages students to learn for themselves, and to develop a love of learning, and the skills to keep learning. It seems from what you say that you do this. But I don't see it in the vast majority of schools and teachers in Thailand. So I disagree with your final statement - I believe that the majority of schools fall into the former category, sadly.

[cup-O-coffee]

A lot of good points herein, but we are still dealing with a crap-Thai system of failures and anathemic Face thinking.

The driver (the student) is no different than literal Thai drivers; they way they operate their cars, the lack of training, skill and recklessness and only using the car for joy rides and to get a thrill out of the experience because they know deep down they are going around and around and will never get anywhere on the road that they are driving on; Nay! the only road they have to drive on.

The road (the goal): a huge loop.

The car (the school) is a maintenance nightmare.

The maintenance crew (the teachers and parents) are aalso a nightmare,equally applied to the good, the bad and the ugly maintenance mechanics contributing to this clusterfuc_k or avoiding their responsibilities for whatever reason.

The manufacturers (government drones and nutless directors; all well-meaning of course) are useless <deleted> who know they have a monopoly on the market. They know that their brand of automobile is the only game in town. They cater to their selfish whims and only think of their job security and their paycheck.

---------------------------

Walk into any typical Thai school and ask to see a curriculum. Ask to see the activities for that week for any class or subject. Ask why there are boxes and junk lying around on the floors cluttering up everything and dust covering it all. Ask anything or for anything and await the preamble of excuses or idiotic digressions.

The way the Thai school system is ran makes me think of just about every Thai business I have ever needed customer service from, or have had to ask the employees for help. I never seem to get a straight answer, and the damned stupid things they need to do to get me zero results astounds the imagination. Ask a manager why the employees on duty are standing around doing nothing instead of going through their inventory and facing the shelves and studying the information on the boxes and items.

The employees are lazy and pre-occupied with something not business related. They have no concept of the product or services they offer. They do not know where their products are located within their own store. Every customer request leads nowhere.

The natives who patronize these Thai ran businesses never complain. Their thinking is all out of whack and to them "broken" equates to "normal". Businesses will remain crappy and so will customer service. Taking advantage of customers and killing the goldern goose will be the norm. School systems and the people who patronize these schools will continue to accept the crap that is shoved down their throats and never do anything about it, because this requires one to step forward and for the others to grow some testicles and back them up. FACE does not allow this.

The ones who excel are the exceptions to the rules. They make up a rather small percentage. They are the ones who have some foreign influence in their lives almost 99% of the time. Nothing except the talk has changed in 2556 years. Foreign children and half halfs with foreign fathers or mothers will continue to excel above the natives and the Thais will remain the same in another 2556 years as they are now; unless they change the meaning of What makes a Thai a Thai? It certainly is not being able to be self-sufficient, but rather dependant upon the charity and gullibility of others.

This is my flame. It is generalized a lot; but it feels good. I have a son who will be running this gauntlet of lunacy. I am glad I am his father and that he will avoid much and learn much because he has a guide through this life until he can be self-sufficient. His road will lead to the horizon and beyond.

As for less homework; does it really matter anyway?

[hansnl]

Reduce homework?

????????????????

Which homework?

Got one in university, one in Mathyom and one in Business school.

Homework?

Which homework?

Two additional university students live in my house.

Homework?

Which homework?

[MaxLee]

People in high status society set a bad example amidst doing corruption and cheating themselves...

[maturebrit]

yes the hi so kids get by with their influential parents and become really spoilt little brats

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[TommoPhysicist]

Worse is how they learn.

If you get something to calculate and you calculate it right but the way you think yourself than it is wrong. Because you need to copy exact the steps the teacher told. Every non-conform thinking is wrong....

The Thai education system is designed to teach students conformity and obedience.

It is a very successful system.

Homework adds nothing to this aim, and is therefore pointless

Edited January 31, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[maturebrit]

basic arithmetic is sadly lacking . surely you noticed how they reach for a calculator in most stores etc..

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hellodolly]

basic arithmetic is sadly lacking . surely you noticed how they reach for a calculator in most stores etc..

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

They are now learning in grade 1 to reach for as pad. Not a lot of hope in sight with this type mentality running the show.

Does any one know how much the government is spending on education compared to the rice scheme?

[MaxLee]

Thai education system children learn zero about social behavior which is essential for international relationship building.

Edited January 31, 2013 by MaxLee

[tominbkk]

basic arithmetic is sadly lacking . surely you noticed how they reach for a calculator in most stores etc..

I was going to mention that. The little store I get my 2-3 cans of Chang from about 4 nights a week (for the last 10 years or so) has the same 2 people working there all the time. Never once have they tried to figure out the price without the calculator. Sad, when a beer is 30 baht each, especially...

[attento]

Although I have not researched this, I would guess that the value obtained from homework is closely related to the value obtained from Classwork. The most valuable homework will be done by those students fortunate enough to have inspiring teachers. Also, there may be teachers who believe that parents expect to see homework being given, and that they will value the teacher accordingly. The old "quantity v. quality" arguement. Surely, the "right" amount of homework will vary according to the classroom progress. It cannot be a fixed amount.

[mca]

Democrat leader Abhisit Vejjajiva sees the homework-reduction move as a "junior populist policy" that could indulge children.

Come on Mark. You should follow DPM Chalerm's example of if you can't find anything sensible to say it's better to remain silent.

[notmyself]

One only has to look around at what the Thai education system spits out

[Psych01]

I am sorry, as I understand it "homework" -- which I hated as a student -- was to confirm that the student understood what was taught in the class and to involve the parents, having taught here in Thailand, I was proved wrong. The problem is not the homework, it is the system in which these poor students are brought up in, both socially and academically.

[maturebrit]

I am sorry, as I understand it "homework" -- which I hated as a student -- was to confirm that the student understood what was taught in the class and to involve the parents, having taught here in Thailand, I was proved wrong. The problem is not the homework, it is the system in which these poor students are brought up in, both socially and academically.

dead right..... I hated homework.... but worked for my Hons Degree under my own motivation...

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[backtonormal]

Thai students and children get no guidance on "prioritizing" tasks and work. They have no work ethic or sense of reward for "achievement. They are not driven by achievement success. They are driven by "compatibility" and fraternity with their sakdi na network and pecking order. When it comes to schoolwork they have no discipline, the work has little meaning or application. They waste time and dilly dally about chit chatting and playing games and uploading pictures.

They have never been taught "order" and priority of work tasks. It doesn't mean anything in Thai culture. Homework in Thailand is merely busy work , it is not designed to teach or for students to learn and take interest. Thailand education is a sham and everyone knows it. They are not prepared for adult life. Everyone who knows and understands Thailand knows that the system is broken long before homework is assigned. Assigning homework at any level of volume in Thailand is an exercise in futility.

Worse is how they learn.

If you get something to calculate and you calculate it right but the way you think yourself than it is wrong. Because you need to copy exact the steps the teacher told. Every non-conform thinking is wrong....

I taught my son a different way to do long division to help him overcome his block. It was working but one day his book came home covered in red ink. The answers were correct but he had not done the working out the way the teacher had told him.

Also in maths the children are not allowed to do their working out in their answer book (presuming bcos it does not look beautiful) they are given a notebook. Problem being that when he would come to review previous work the answers were there but the way he got to the answer was in another book which was god knows where.

[Ian Curtis]

I hear many many word spoken about this topic and (in my opinion) I don't see the basic question, "What is homework for?" I will soon give an example of what I believe 'homework' ought to be.

But first;

In prehistoric times I was head of mathematics and physics at a comprehensive school in England during the days of 'O' levels and 'A' levels in Nuffield physics and SMP mathematics.

Obviously, these standards have collapsed and this level is now only attained during the 1st year of a B.Sc. degree if not the 2nd year!

Upon reading the comments regarding the poor standard of Thai state schools, and I do concur that they are abysmally low, I also feel that the British education system has lowered its standards too, especially in my subjects. I therefore feel that we have very little to shout about.

One quick glance around the UK and what do we see? The University of ........ which in its hay-day was is a Technical College, a College of Art, a Domestic Science College. a Teacher Training College or the University of the Bricklayers Arms!

I also understand (not totally sure) that nowadays in the UK, one can fail an exam at the end of a university term and then be allowed a re-sit. If this is so, then surely a University degree is meaningless?

Back to the question of, 'to set or not to set homework'.

I've tried attaching an XLS file and it didn't work so I'll try and explain.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF MATHEMATICS HOMEWORK FOR 11 and 12 YEAR OLDS What is it teaching? 1 Logical thinking 2 It incorporates reflections and rotations to see whether or not 1 shape is the same as a previous shape

X imagine this as a solitary square. There is just 1 arrangement

x x these are 2 squares; There is just 1 arrangement

x x x or x x

x these are 3 squares showing just 2 arrangement

x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x these are 4 squares showing just 5 unique arrangements

Continue by finding out how many unique ways are there for 5 squares, 6, 7, . . . .

I add here that the children loved doing this kind of work x 1 1st Another might be the triangle numbers: x x 3 2nd x x x 6 3rd x x x x 10 4th x x x x x 15 5th . . . 100th Who can find a connection? What is the 100th triangle number? And so on

And then another homework could be (It follows from the triangle numbers)

Make yourself a closed region and draw a straight line through it. Amazingly you find you have two regions

Now draw another line to cut through your first line and . . . yes . . . you get 4 regions.

Now draw a third line to cut the first two BUT, your new line must not pass through the intersecting point. You were expecting 8 but you got 7

The drawings become difficult but most children should be able to find the next two

lines 1 2 3 4 5 6 . . . . . . . .100

regions 2 4 7 11

Who can find the connection?

______________________________________________________________________________________________

I feel that setting homework very much depends on what the subject is. Simply setting homework for the sake of it becomes a meaningless exercise. If you think about maths, then there are four options;

you either set it such that they can do it in which case it is pointless or

you set a meaningful question which can make pupils feel that they are no good at maths (in their language) and give up or

you set something interesting (as in the above) which is not that easy or

don't set any or hardly any (I prefer this)

During my time there (I and many of us left because of the falling standards imposed on us by the UK Gov by replacing 'O' levels with something called GCSEs), my policy was to keep the 'O' level classes with the same teacher for their last 3 years before taking the exams (at age 16). In my case, my pupils were lucky (if you call it that) if I set 10 pieces of homework in these 3 years - not one of my pupils ever failed in 10 years much to the chagrin of my headmaster because he simply did not agree with my attitude to homework. Also, I had better things to do rather than sit somewhere marking 30 books!

However, an English teacher would have a different point of view because they would, for example, require their pupils to read something and comment, which would be a straightforward piece of homework.

So, my brief conclusion is that is nigh on impossible to devise hard and fast rules regarding homework. It is the teaching and the teachers who can set the standards given that they have a flexible syllabus and also that they know their subjects!!

[Ian Curtis]

I hear many many word spoken about this topic and (in my opinion) I don't see the basic question, "What is homework for?" I will soon give an example of what I believe 'homework' ought to be.

But first;

In prehistoric times I was head of mathematics and physics at a comprehensive school in England during the days of 'O' levels and 'A' levels in Nuffield physics and SMP mathematics.

Obviously, these standards have collapsed and this level is now only attained during the 1st year of a B.Sc. degree if not the 2nd year!

Upon reading the comments regarding the poor standard of Thai state schools, and I do concur that they are abysmally low, I also feel that the British education system has lowered its standards too, especially in my subjects. I therefore feel that we have very little to shout about.

One quick glance around the UK and what do we see? The University of ........ which in its hay-day was is a Technical College, a College of Art, a Domestic Science College. a Teacher Training College or the University of the Bricklayers Arms!

I also understand (not totally sure) that nowadays in the UK, one can fail an exam at the end of a university term and then be allowed a re-sit. If this is so, then surely a University degree is meaningless?

Back to the question of, 'to set or not to set homework'.

I've tried attaching an XLS file and it didn't work so I'll try and explain.

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF MATHEMATICS HOMEWORK FOR 11 and 12 YEAR OLDS What is it teaching? 1 Logical thinking 2 It incorporates reflections and rotations to see whether or not 1 shape is the same as a previous shape

X imagine this as a solitary square. There is just 1 arrangement

x x these are 2 squares; There is just 1 arrangement

x x x or x x

x these are 3 squares showing just 2 arrangement

x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

x x x x x x these are 4 squares showing just 5 unique arrangements

Continue by finding out how many unique ways are there for 5 squares, 6, 7, . . . .

I add here that the children loved doing this kind of work x 1 1st Another might be the triangle numbers: x x 3 2nd x x x 6 3rd x x x x 10 4th x x x x x 15 5th . . . 100th Who can find a connection? What is the 100th triangle number? And so on

And then another homework could be (It follows from the triangle numbers)

Make yourself a closed region and draw a straight line through it. Amazingly you find you have two regions

Now draw another line to cut through your first line and . . . yes . . . you get 4 regions.

Now draw a third line to cut the first two BUT, your new line must not pass through the intersecting point. You were expecting 8 but you got 7

The drawings become difficult but most children should be able to find the next two

lines 1 2 3 4 5 6 . . . . . . . .100

regions 2 4 7 11

Who can find the connection?

______________________________________________________________________________________________

I feel that setting homework very much depends on what the subject is. Simply setting homework for the sake of it becomes a meaningless exercise. If you think about maths, then there are four options;

you either set it such that they can do it in which case it is pointless or

you set a meaningful question which can make pupils feel that they are no good at maths (in their language) and give up or

you set something interesting (as in the above) which is not that easy or

don't set any or hardly any (I prefer this)

During my time there (I and many of us left because of the falling standards imposed on us by the UK Gov by replacing 'O' levels with something called GCSEs), my policy was to keep the 'O' level classes with the same teacher for their last 3 years before taking the exams (at age 16). In my case, my pupils were lucky (if you call it that) if I set 10 pieces of homework in these 3 years - not one of my pupils ever failed in 10 years much to the chagrin of my headmaster because he simply did not agree with my attitude to homework. Also, I had better things to do rather than sit somewhere marking 30 books!

However, an English teacher would have a different point of view because they would, for example, require their pupils to read something and comment, which would be a straightforward piece of homework.

So, my brief conclusion is that is nigh on impossible to devise hard and fast rules regarding homework. It is the teaching and the teachers who can set the standards given that they have a flexible syllabus and also that they know their subjects!!

Blast ; it's come out all jumbled up so it will be difficult to follow - sorry about that

[Tywais]

I taught my son a different way to do long division to help him overcome his block. It was working but one day his book came home covered in red ink. The answers were correct but he had not done the working out the way the teacher had told him.

Interestingly enough I had the same thing happen but was showing how to do algebra simplification and equation solving. Guess my logical 'shortcuts' weren't acceptable even though it arrived at the correct answer.

[backtonormal]

What will happen to all those providers of 'extra classes' outside of school whose job is to complete the homework from the students' day school? Job losses on the horizon in this sector....

On another note, I've been regularly checking the homework of my 6-year old boy from a private school in Chiang Mai. It usually takes him about 10 minutes. His last maths homework contained questions like 1+0= and 2+3= . I have been teaching him maths myself on average for 30 mins 2 or 3 times a week during term time for the last year or so. He can add and subtract 3-digit numbers and multiply 2 and 1 digit numbers. I'm not saying this to show off. I totally believe that all kids have the potential to do this at that age and that many Thai schools are letting their students down terribly by not recognizing their potential at all.

If you don't want to leave the degree of your child's aptitude to some chance genetic predisposition, and don't want to allow the Thai school system to let your child's brain - a pinnacle of thousands of years of human evolution - stagnate and never approach its true potential then I thoroughly recommend spending a bit of time teaching them basic maths and English in your own home at an early age.

The way homework is set and done is just a tiny part of what's wrong with education in Thai schools, but it shouldn't be done away with.

I once watched a 5 year old kindergarten 1 student do mental arithmetic at the board with her teacher and arrive at 3 digit answers. The student had ability but was taking extra classes. In discussion with the class teacher she told me in K1 children only learn to the number 5 (value). Whattttttt!!!!!!!!! Just before leaving I listen to the class repeat the date in English and Thai It was the 27th of the month...you work it out

[backtonormal]

Worse is how they learn.

If you get something to calculate and you calculate it right but the way you think yourself than it is wrong. Because you need to copy exact the steps the teacher told. Every non-conform thinking is wrong....

The Thai education system is designed to teach students conformity and obedience.

It is a very successful system.

Homework adds nothing to this aim, and is therefore pointless

conformity and obedience to the culture, which is whats stopping them learning. Stop basing the education around the culture

[Lucie]

Although I have not researched this, I would guess that the value obtained from homework is closely related to the value obtained from Classwork. The most valuable homework will be done by those students fortunate enough to have inspiring teachers. Also, there may be teachers who believe that parents expect to see homework being given, and that they will value the teacher accordingly. The old "quantity v. quality" arguement. Surely, the "right" amount of homework will vary according to the classroom progress. It cannot be a fixed amount.

Yes, yes and yes. I am one of those teachers who sets homework partly because the parents (and school) expect it. Some of them ask me to set homework every day, but I draw the line at once or twice a week. Some weeks I give them a little task that we could have done in class, just so there's something for the parents to see. I think it's good for the parents to get involved a bit.

On the other hand, I also have to make sure that the homework isn't essential to the kids' learning, as there are other parents who never check their kid's homework diary and so the homework is never done... Then I have to make sure I reward those who DID the homework without being too judgemental on the ones who DIDN'T...

Being a teacher is like tightrope walking.