Gridlocked: The Sad History And Frightening Future Of Bangkok Traffic

[tw25rw]

Need more public transport. More buses/taxis/trains and make tuk-tuks into actual public transport instead of just a tourist rip off.

Discourage private car ownership, at least of vehicles over a certain capacity and weight. Make it so that electric vehicles are more attractive that petrol/diesel.

Knock through some of the sois that end in dead ends so the side sois can take up some of the load.

Enable more satellite towns to develop so that people live and work outside the city

[doctorproc156]

I would guarantee it is greater than the tax refund, so in the end the car owner is losing.

No, they win. They get face from having a car.

I know a middle-aged Thai teacher who lives in a section of the school with another teacher, they both work there 6 days a week, earn less than12k p/m, they both have cars.

I honestly don't think it has that much to do with face, the matter of fact is that the public transport is still pathetic and you still need a car to get around to the suburbs. We just have to bite our tongues until the 10 promised train lines are built. After which there will be a natural increase in commuters and less cars. It's just a matter of waiting now.

[maidu]

Lots of good suggestions on this thread. Reminds me of why I don't travel to Bkk unless I absolutely have to. Similarly, I suggest to farang who feel stuck in Bkk, to try and find a way to leave, unless they REALLY have to be there. It's ironic that the highest property prices in Thailand are at the least habitable places.

Another suggestion: dedicated traffic lights for right turns at intersections. In that way, two lanes could be moving concurrently, rather than the one (out of four) which is what currently happens in Thailand. Also, on-the-spot fines for those who go through a red light - particularly if they get stuck in an intersection blocking traverse traffic (very common in Thailand). Another common factor in Thailand is exceptionally selfish driving, which is something can only change from peoples' personal habits. Thai drivers are rude without even knowing they're being rude - because the many rude things they do while driving, are not defined as 'rude' by Thai standards.

[cbrer]

I honestly don't think it has that much to do with face, the matter of fact is that the public transport is still pathetic and you still need a car to get around to the suburbs.

Incorrect.

The sheer range of public transport is fantastic.

Minivans every 20 minutes to every suburb. Buses, endless taxis, etc.

The problem is that the roads are so full of single passenger cars that they take too long to get there.

[finnomick1]

With this new car rebate policy........does the new owner have to possess a "REAL" licence to drive?

DOUBT IT!!

No they don't -- my wife's sister just bought her first car using a government loan. No license, no previous driving experience. The insurance company doesn't ask if one has a license or if one has had previous driving experience. She's been driving now for about 3 months and luckily ( I'd say amazingly ) hasn't had any scrapes......yet. And for the record, I am totally against what she is doing.

[doctorproc156]

I honestly don't think it has that much to do with face, the matter of fact is that the public transport is still pathetic and you still need a car to get around to the suburbs.

Incorrect.

The sheer range of public transport is fantastic.

Minivans every 20 minutes to every suburb. Buses, endless taxis, etc.

The problem is that the roads are so full of single passenger cars that they take too long to get there.

Maybe for the well off but getting to places with a taxi everyday especially isn't exactly affordable for everyone. You could say there are songtheaws and minivans during the day, but past a certain hour, taxis would be your only option.

[iluvbeaches]

I highly recommend people try to use the MRT (the other sky train, the subway) which besides before and after work hours can be totally empty, 6 trains, runs often and well air conditioned. Hopefully with new lines planned it will provide an option except of course you are heading to lower sukhumvit.

[singa-traz]

O yes, Bangkok is the 2:end worst traffic town behind Delhi in the world

My friends in Jakarta claim that traffic there is equally or even worse than Bangkok.

[MrHammer]

O yes, Bangkok is the 2:end worst traffic town behind Delhi in the world

My friends in Jakarta claim that traffic there is equally or even worse than Bangkok.

Manila is equally bad but without the motocy. However, Bangkok needs to ask itself if it wants to belong with third world dumps such as Delhi, Jakarta and Manila.

[cbrer]

I honestly don't think it has that much to do with face, the matter of fact is that the public transport is still pathetic and you still need a car to get around to the suburbs.

Incorrect.

The sheer range of public transport is fantastic.

Minivans every 20 minutes to every suburb. Buses, endless taxis, etc.

The problem is that the roads are so full of single passenger cars that they take too long to get there.

Maybe for the well off but getting to places with a taxi everyday especially isn't exactly affordable for everyone. You could say there are songtheaws and minivans during the day, but past a certain hour, taxis would be your only option.

Minivans go from about 4am until about midnight.

[NoshowJones]

Thirty-one-year-old motorcycle cab driver Surachai Thankam insists that, “the problem is mainly caused by the traffic police’s inability to control the traffic lights.”

Perhaps not letting the Police manually control the lights or traffic might help . . . traffic light automation is done for a reason and if it's done properly results in increased traffic flow throughout. But then there would be no justification for the number of Police and . . .

I was sitting on the 26 bus coming from Minburi, there was a policeman controlling the lights, he then stopped a motorcyclist and booked him, while he was booking the motorcyclist, the lights were kept at red for at least fifteen minutes. Can you imagine the traffic congestion this caused?

[NoshowJones]

I would guarantee it is greater than the tax refund, so in the end the car owner is losing.

No, they win. They get face from having a car.

I know a middle-aged Thai teacher who lives in a section of the school with another teacher, they both work there 6 days a week, earn less than12k p/m, they both have cars.

Thai teachers getting less than 12000 Baht per month? No, they must be Philipinos.

[NoshowJones]

Need more public transport. More buses/taxis/trains and make tuk-tuks into actual public transport instead of just a tourist rip off.

Discourage private car ownership, at least of vehicles over a certain capacity and weight. Make it so that electric vehicles are more attractive that petrol/diesel.

Knock through some of the sois that end in dead ends so the side sois can take up some of the load.

Enable more satellite towns to develop so that people live and work outside the city

What? All these Thai drivers speeding through the sois? You will then have about five times the normal annual amount of fatalities on the roads, but again life is so cheap here nobody would bother. Also, what about all the poor soi dogs? Now there's an idea, that will decrease the dog population.

[NoshowJones]

With this new car rebate policy........does the new owner have to possess a "REAL" licence to drive?

DOUBT IT!!

No they don't -- my wife's sister just bought her first car using a government loan. No license, no previous driving experience. The insurance company doesn't ask if one has a license or if one has had previous driving experience. She's been driving now for about 3 months and luckily ( I'd say amazingly ) hasn't had any scrapes......yet. And for the record, I am totally against what she is doing.

Why do you think the insurance company doesn't ask about a licence? So they won't have to fork out after an accident.

[Will2011]

In Bangkok, the main problem is that there are not enough roads. Saying there are too many cars is an irrational statement. The proportion of car owners are way higher in large western cities.

Edited February 4, 2013 by Will2011

[cbrer]

I would guarantee it is greater than the tax refund, so in the end the car owner is losing.

No, they win. They get face from having a car.

I know a middle-aged Thai teacher who lives in a section of the school with another teacher, they both work there 6 days a week, earn less than12k p/m, they both have cars.

Thai teachers getting less than 12000 Baht per month? No, they must be Philipinos.

Incorrect.

[doctorproc156]

In Bangkok, the main problem is that there are not enough roads. Saying there are too many cars is an irrational statement. The proportion of car owners are way higher in large western cities.

The city is far too dense, the city planning is horrific with A LOT of development being done without analyzing the flow rate of traffic to resident density ratio. In western cities there are usually more than a few ways to get somewhere but with Thailands' "Soi and Tanon" style of development they are really shooting themselves in the foot.

Edited February 4, 2013 by anantha92

[cbrer]

What do people expect in jungle countries?

[tw25rw]

Need more public transport. More buses/taxis/trains and make tuk-tuks into actual public transport instead of just a tourist rip off.

Discourage private car ownership, at least of vehicles over a certain capacity and weight. Make it so that electric vehicles are more attractive that petrol/diesel.

Knock through some of the sois that end in dead ends so the side sois can take up some of the load.

Enable more satellite towns to develop so that people live and work outside the city

What? All these Thai drivers speeding through the sois? You will then have about five times the normal annual amount of fatalities on the roads, but again life is so cheap here nobody would bother. Also, what about all the poor soi dogs? Now there's an idea, that will decrease the dog population.

Speed humps?

There needs to be some way that these side roads take some of the load.

Though I have noticed that even where drivers could bypass some traffic jams, they still prefer to sit there.

[MrHammer]

There are definitely too many taxis. Sometimes you may sit in a traffic jam and 7/10 cars are taxis. The traffic police certainly also only make the problem worse. A good example is the Asoke-Petchburi road, where massive congestion is the norm when the traffic police lets the lights run one way for ten minutes, then half a minute the other way. A lot of times, when you're stuck in traffic, you can count on seeing the traffic police 'directing' traffic at junction. They're really not helping. Of course, Bangkok also needs a lot more public transport. Large areas of the city like Banglamphoo and Ramkhamhaeng have no MRT or Skytrain. Of course, if you're smart, you'll use canal and river boats to get to those destinations. More enjoyable as well. But that aside, the traffic is a serious health hazard, particularly if you're in an accident or get suddenly ill. Will an ambulance even be able to get you to a hospital?

It would be nice if the Thais could just get going on building these extra lines for the Skytrain and MRT, alternatively digging some tunnels for car traffic. But as we all know, Thailand is in no rush to change their country to first world status. They could have been first world a long time ago if they had wanted to. However, I suppose the ruling class prefers a lower level for the commoners and their cheap labor while they jet to Paris, New York and London. Certainly having spent years abroad would have given some ideas as to how to lift Thailand up. When that hasn't happened, I think it's fair to conclude that the elite prefers things the way they are. Similar situation as in the Philippines were select families are rich beyond imagination, but refuse to do even the smallest of social reform.

Sometimes it's wise to remember that Thailand has a rate of military coups in line with sub-sahara Africa.

[Locationthailand]

Hello .... hellooooo.... is any Minister, Town Planner or cop reading any of this...... Oh okay. Then forget it!

[tw25rw]

I would have more taxis, or keep it the same, and discourage private cars.

[Caipirinha]

The thing I've noticed the biggest problem with is that all the traffic is forced onto the main roads almost exclusively. Looking at a roadmap of Bangkok it's amazing how many dead ends there are everywhere. In every other country I've visited going down a sidestreet usually gets you somewhere but in Thailand and especially in Bangkok you are most often left looking at a wall at the end.

Sadly it's way too late to do anything about it without demolishing large parts of the city so the only way The Big Mango can come to grips with it's traffic right now is to expand public transportation, and they need to expand it alot and cover the whole city.

But as TiT I doubt we'll see any real improvement any time soon. Do expect alot of appointed investigative boards followed by useless laws that will be both ineffective and largely ignored though

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[Furbie]

O yes, Bangkok is the 2:end worst traffic town behind Delhi in the world

My friends in Jakarta claim that traffic there is equally or even worse than Bangkok.

I can confirm from personal experience; traffic in Jakarta is as bad, or even worse, than Bangkok.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Furbie

[Furbie]

It's really a great deal simpler than this article states, and the history is irrelevant to solving the problem today. Basically, there are far too many parking spaces in businesses and workplaces in the inner city, and far too few public transport means throughout the city. If drivers knew they could not park in the inner city, as London, Paris, New York, Tokyo, etc etc drivers know, because city authorities have ensured that building owners and managers cannot provide large numbers of parking spaces, then they would not use their cars to go to work, to go on business, or to go on free time errands in the inner city. Instead they would use the multiple public transport means, especially buses using bus lanes and a comprehensive subway system, to travel around the city. That's the way Bangkok should go. The solution is fundamentally simple to state -- but in the Thai political and cultural context almost impossible to implement. So Bangkok will always be a transportation disaster. Misery, misery, misery.

Good points, but I think the Sky Train could count as a subway system, except above ground. But adding capacity to this would surely help.

During the oil embargo of the 1970's, some larger USA Cities tried reducing there dependance on fuel by implimenting and odd even days for driving the family car to work. On one day only even numbered license plate drivers could drive and on the next day it was only odd numbered ones, which went on for 6 days. Everyone could drive on Sunday. Public Transportation and Taxi's could drive every day. If caught out of date you were fined. Remember the term "Car Pooling"?

Not only was this a success in reducing the amount of fuel consumed, but also polution and especially the amount of traffic in the city. So I think something like this could work in Bangkok if the larger organizations in the city helped set up a car Pool Program with co-workers and the government pushing for this and doing mass advertising, Public Transportation capacity, especially the Sky Train, was increased, and these laws were enforced. There is a workable solution to this problem. It is just that the people may not be willing to make the sacrifice required to make this happen.

.

Your suggestion actually only works for a short time. Several South American cities have tried this and people simply buy a second car. Now car ownership is through the roof, and some families with two commuters have four cars, so the underlying problem remains.

As mentioned, Bangkok needs to start with vigorously enforcing traffic laws – no stopping or standing, no loading –unloading, no lane splitting, etc. The police can be taken out of the booths, and made to enforce the law instead of making it worse by playing with the lights. They should also keep the vendors off of the main roads. All of this can be done right away and will have immediate benefits.

More public transport is also desperately needed. I do take issue with building more roads – more road capacity will be taken up by more cars – we’ve seen this in the US, you can’t build the roads fast enough. An integrated and efficient public transport system is what’s called for. Once a better grasp of the situation is revealed, issues such as higher registration tax for stickers to drive in Bangkok can be addressed.

Finally, Bangkok needs far more independence from the central government. Unless I am mistaken, the governor’s office does not control the police, and you can’t fix the problem without them. The governor’s office should have control over the roads (it only has the sidewalks now) and traffic enforcement. This way, the people in Bangkok can hold the city directly accountable for these issues. Having the central government accountable is meaningless when their voting base doesn’t even live here.

[planr]

Your suggestion actually only works for a short time. Several South American cities have tried this and people simply buy a second car. Now car ownership is through the roof, and some families with two commuters have four cars, so the underlying problem remains.

As mentioned, Bangkok needs to start with vigorously enforcing traffic laws – no stopping or standing, no loading –unloading, no lane splitting, etc. The police can be taken out of the booths, and made to enforce the law instead of making it worse by playing with the lights. They should also keep the vendors off of the main roads. All of this can be done right away and will have immediate benefits.

This is absolutely true. One of the major downsides of people buying a second car in these instances is not the increased ownership itself, but that the second cars were/are often very old, polluting, unsafe, etc because very few people could/can afford to be another brand new car to circumvent the rules. And +1 on the enforcement.

More public transport is also desperately needed. I do take issue with building more roads – more road capacity will be taken up by more cars – we’ve seen this in the US, you can’t build the roads fast enough. An integrated and efficient public transport system is what’s called for. Once a better grasp of the situation is revealed, issues such as higher registration tax for stickers to drive in Bangkok can be addressed.

More roads = More cars is known as Induced Demand and is well known throughout the world. It became relevant in the "modern" transport world in the 1930s in New York as Robert Moses went on his parkway building binge. I see many people (including the author of the article) have the idea that because roads only account for 8% of Bangkok's land area, it means more roads are needed. A fallacious argument if I've ever heard one.

Finally, Bangkok needs far more independence from the central government. Unless I am mistaken, the governor’s office does not control the police, and you can’t fix the problem without them. The governor’s office should have control over the roads (it only has the sidewalks now) and traffic enforcement. This way, the people in Bangkok can hold the city directly accountable for these issues. Having the central government accountable is meaningless when their voting base doesn’t even live here.

The BMA is a prisoner in its own house (meaning Thailand). You're correct that the Metropolitan Police who control the roads are merely the "local branch" of the national police and are not under the jurisdiction of the BMA.