Upsurge In Retirement Visa Extensions

[ratcatcher]

Exactly! I'm happy in Thailand, I hope I can stay here forever, ... Because I am happy here, and it is a wonderful country...

It's a choice, you can choose to be happy or not.

Have a little Google

Here's a link that might help

http://www.csulb.edu/~tstevens/

I get the impression that you like Thailand? Na?

[Arkady]

Well, this is something that I've been thinking about , who the hell cares if the number of people on retirement visas increases or decreases, or if the most of the applicants r britishers or russians, they, they are not the real problem, the elephant in the room is the huge number of foreigners( of all nationalities and colors) that hav thai families( married to thais, or that have thai husdband/wife) and don't even have the right to earn a living in this country unless you hav a bachellor degree, or lots of money in the bank. we r thousand of people in this situtatuion, and it seems that no one in teh goverment care about us or about the well-being of our thai relative who in most of cases depends on us, at least give us the chance of work freely, eliminate the income requirements to our visa or make it equal to the normal income of a thai 15000 bath/ month ( 400,000 yearly = 33,333/month), and pleace lower the income requirements for pr and citizenship as well, we r human beings and our thai families too.

Nonsense. You didn't have a Thai family when you arrived here. You knew the rules when you created a Thai family and now you think you are special because you entered into the situation you don't like voluntarily.

Hardly fair to those of us who did the actual work to come in to Thailand and call it home legally.

You have no idea how sorry I feel for you.

Perhaps you are like the other poster who figures he is so good he shouldn't have to do what the rest of us do.

Every forum has em "if you dont like it here go back to your own country mob" Give the poster a break for all you know when he came here the visa requirements were 200k which is only slightly above the 15000 per month he is requesting. I sense some desperation in his message and may require some advice which you as ' Im alright Jack' is not capable of providing. Yes I agree there should be certain jobs we can do here that dont require degrees. What they are I dont really know. I would suggest a visa for running a business online in most cases does not effect Thais as long as you pay your taxes

I can understand that point of view but, unfortunately, it is far from realistic. Even those with permanent residence like myself are not allowed to work freely without a work permit. Allowing us to work freely, as in most PR or green card like schemes in the world, should come before allowing people who have simply married a citizen. If fact they recently made it harder for PRs to obtain work permits by scrapping our exemption from having 4 Thai employees. We now also have to prove that there was no Thai available to do the job. Even though we have been approved for life time visas by the minister after a rigorous and lengthy process and paid a fat fee, the implication is still that we should go home to earn our livings as soon as a Thai has been trained up to our job.

Given that they have tightened up qualification requirements for work permit, even for permanent residents, why would they lessen them for people who are married to Thais? The idea is to issue work permits to foreign experts who have skills and experience not otherwise available in Thailand. In their eyes someone without a degree is unlikely to possess such skills. It is a bit broad brush but not very far off the mark. There are loads of opportunities to acquire a degree in later life by distance learning or whatnot. Is working in Thailand is really important to you, why haven't you obtained one?

Re income requirements. Why would any country want to give retirement visas to someone with an income of US$500 a month? The idea is that you don't particularly want extra people living in your country at all but you accept that letting in a few will add some who can contribute something you want to add value to the economy and society, whether this be skills or loot. Why would they think that someone with no skills and income on the poverty line is gong to add any value? What is the relevance of comparing the value they want you to add with the income levels of average Thais who are doing poorly economically?

The way they see it, it is very easy for unmarried or divorced foreign men to come to Thailand on some kind of short stay visa and marry a poor Thai woman who thinks all farang men are rich. Again it is rather broad brush and unfair but not far off the mark. If they have children on their B15,000 a month are those kids going to generate income for private schools and hospitals. No, they are going to be a burden on the state.

I have heard the view from Thai officials that foreigners without skills or wealth should take their Thai wives and kids to live in their own countries which are rich and can provide them with a high level of free social services. Unfair, maybe, but that is the mindset and it is best to be aware of it before settling down and starting a Thai family.

[laislica]

Thailand has a good offer. It is not the best in the world if you're only evaluating visa offers, which in real life, is only one factor. Having a bank account option is very unusual. Many is a vague word. Some countries require the annual import and some do not. The biggest downside of Thailand's program is no path to permanent residence.

I couldn't agree more, having overstay fines and the need to make 90 day reports always in your mind is a drag at times.

I'd like to spend the winters in Thailand and the summer in Spain - following the sun

Of course, this type of life style is quite expensive, the need to have the resources to live in both locations, plus travel costs for two, however, this is my choice and I spend my money with no regrets. There are no pockets in a shroud.

I love the Thai way of doing things where family comes first, second and last

Whilst the Thais, generally, are not rich in a monetary sense, they are rich beyond belief in their ability to "take care" in a family sense and I honestly feel that those riches are Priceless "to quote Mastercard!".

Any BS that has to be endured with the arduous travel, (I have a 7 hour train journey, an overnight wait in Madrid airport, 14 hours of flying in two stints with a couple of hours to change planes at half way), or with immigration in order to stay here is trivial when compared to the sheer joy of being here.

However, if the immigration was simplified, think of all the ex-pats that I would never have met whilst waiting for the paperwork to be completed.

In every cloud there is a silver lining.

What would be a blessing is if the Farang Whingers started to love and enjoy their time here and started to look for the good in anything and everything.

It's a choice, you can choose to be happy or not.

Have a little Google

Here's a link that might help

http://www.csulb.edu/~tstevens/

Not only do I like it I completely agree with it. I don't have the money to maintain a residency in two countries and not sure I would if I did. But what you said about the Thai richness in families is so right on. A fact so easy to over look for many expats in there drive for material possessions. Sadly there are way to many of them here and slowly the Thais are looking towards materialism.

My wife and her family are Thai through and through to the point where if the food is not Thai it is no good a cording to my wife. (you can imagine traveling outside the country with her) I pay 5,500 baht a month for her mothers lodging. I had to put in some improvements such as a western toilet which the wife's brother traveled 100 Kilometers to do plus other repairs before she moved in. I looked over the premisses and told the wife that if she wanted I would spend more for her mother. For me with my western upbringing it was a dump but to the Thai way of thinking it was very nice and the family chipped in to make it more accommodating for her.

This is a way of life that we don't see that much of in the western world. There is some of it like my brother who is always looking for projects he can do for the family as he loves doing that sort of things and he has run out of them at his own house. It is his form of relaxing. But you don't see a lot of that in the Western world.

I am not a big fan of the reporting system here but it is a very minor issue and as you say I have met some very interesting people in my waiting at immigration.

I agree, I am very lucky on many fronts.

I'd just turned 70 when I arrived in Thailand and have a reasonable pension (and had a few quid in the bank)..

I didn't go to the usual bar Haunts and only learned about that side of Thailand by reading books like Stephen Leather's book Private Dancer (Freely available on the internet).

I was loaned a copy of Thailand Fever and read it at least three times. It really helped me to understand the Thai way of being.

There seems to be a certain group on TV that haven't got the hang of using money and they are often miserable and mean spirited and have very little joy in their lives. They are too concerned with either making more and more money or hanging on the what they have.

How about this quote from a song by Beth Nielson Chapman:

Reach till you know how far, Trust till you know how true

Give till you know how much Loves inside of you

For this we shed our skin, Feel where each breath begins

Bleed as we pick the rose, Fall back with both eyes closed

All for the love we want......

and, from another of her songs:

How heavy the empty heart,

How light the heart that's full.

Sometimes I have to trust what I can't know

Those three lines are inspirational and make visa requirements pale in the sunset.

Enjoy every moment in The Land of Smiles.

[indyuk]

Ther're 50,000 British Citizens living in Thailand. Some British migrants are rich and some are so not rich. Howver most of us seem have a better life than the average Thai and most us intend to stay. A liitle immigration burocrasy is necessary to ensure that we don't exploit the ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence.

Edited February 5, 2013 by indyuk

[Pimay1]

Ther're 50,000 British Citizens living in Thailand. Some British migrants are rich and some are so not rich. Howver most of us seem have a better life than the average Thai and most us intend to stay. A liitle immigration burocrasy is necessary to ensure that we don't exploit the ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence.

Wow learn something every day. I never knew you Brits came here for the purpose of exploiting the ordinary Thai people. Shame on you.

[hellodolly]

Ther're 50,000 British Citizens living in Thailand. Some British migrants are rich and some are so not rich. Howver most of us seem have a better life than the average Thai and most us intend to stay. A liitle immigration burocrasy is necessary to ensure that we don't exploit the ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence.

Well I was reading it and nodding my head in agreement. That is until I came to this part. " ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence."

My experience is if you give them half a chance they will respond to you with good will.

Perhaps it is the people you hang around with or your attitude to them. Try a smile and a little laugh and see how it works for you does wonders for me.

Edit

When I say do0es wonders for me I mean not only are they far more receptive tio me but I feel better.

Particularly when I am mangling the little bit of Thai that I know.

Edited February 5, 2013 by hellodolly

[Pimay1]

Ther're 50,000 British Citizens living in Thailand. Some British migrants are rich and some are so not rich. Howver most of us seem have a better life than the average Thai and most us intend to stay. A liitle immigration burocrasy is necessary to ensure that we don't exploit the ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence.

Well I was reading it and nodding my head in agreement. That is until I came to this part. " ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence."

My experience is if you give them half a chance they will respond to you with good will.

Perhaps it is the people you hang around with or your attitude to them. Try a smile and a little laugh and see how it works for you does wonders for me.

Works the same for us yanks. Treat people like you want to be treated. It's a no brainer.

[granuaile]

Everywhere I have lived or visited in Thailand I have rarely experienced anything other than smiles and warmth, they even assure me my Thai is good (though I know it isn't ). Whether living in Bangplad, Minburi, or Chatuchak, visiting Kanchanaburi or Chiang Mai, I have found that civility and a smile usually are returned with the same, and invitations to sit and drink.

Ther're 50,000 British Citizens living in Thailand. Some British migrants are rich and some are so not rich. Howver most of us seem have a better life than the average Thai and most us intend to stay. A liitle immigration burocrasy is necessary to ensure that we don't exploit the ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence.

Well I was reading it and nodding my head in agreement. That is until I came to this part. " ordinary Thai people who at best just about manage to tolerate our presence."

My experience is if you give them half a chance they will respond to you with good will.

Perhaps it is the people you hang around with or your attitude to them. Try a smile and a little laugh and see how it works for you does wonders for me.

Edit

When I say do0es wonders for me I mean not only are they far more receptive tio me but I feel better.

Particularly when I am mangling the little bit of Thai that I know.

[Om85]

Well, this is something that I've been thinking about , who the hell cares if the number of people on retirement visas increases or decreases, or if the most of the applicants r britishers or russians, they, they are not the real problem, the elephant in the room is the huge number of foreigners( of all nationalities and colors) that hav thai families( married to thais, or that have thai husdband/wife) and don't even have the right to earn a living in this country unless you hav a bachellor degree, or lots of money in the bank. we r thousand of people in this situtatuion, and it seems that no one in teh goverment care about us or about the well-being of our thai relative who in most of cases depends on us, at least give us the chance of work freely, eliminate the income requirements to our visa or make it equal to the normal income of a thai 15000 bath/ month ( 400,000 yearly = 33,333/month), and pleace lower the income requirements for pr and citizenship as well, we r human beings and our thai families too.

Nonsense. You didn't have a Thai family when you arrived here. You knew the rules when you created a Thai family and now you think you are special because you entered into the situation you don't like voluntarily.

Hardly fair to those of us who did the actual work to come in to Thailand and call it home legally.

You have no idea how sorry I feel for you.

Perhaps you are like the other poster who figures he is so good he shouldn't have to do what the rest of us do.

Every forum has em "if you dont like it here go back to your own country mob" Give the poster a break for all you know when he came here the visa requirements were 200k which is only slightly above the 15000 per month he is requesting. I sense some desperation in his message and may require some advice which you as ' Im alright Jack' is not capable of providing. Yes I agree there should be certain jobs we can do here that dont require degrees. What they are I dont really know. I would suggest a visa for running a business online in most cases does not effect Thais as long as you pay your taxes

I can understand that point of view but, unfortunately, it is far from realistic. Even those with permanent residence like myself are not allowed to work freely without a work permit. Allowing us to work freely, as in most PR or green card like schemes in the world, should come before allowing people who have simply married a citizen. If fact they recently made it harder for PRs to obtain work permits by scrapping our exemption from having 4 Thai employees. We now also have to prove that there was no Thai available to do the job. Even though we have been approved for life time visas by the minister after a rigorous and lengthy process and paid a fat fee, the implication is still that we should go home to earn our livings as soon as a Thai has been trained up to our job.

Given that they have tightened up qualification requirements for work permit, even for permanent residents, why would they lessen them for people who are married to Thais? The idea is to issue work permits to foreign experts who have skills and experience not otherwise available in Thailand. In their eyes someone without a degree is unlikely to possess such skills. It is a bit broad brush but not very far off the mark. There are loads of opportunities to acquire a degree in later life by distance learning or whatnot. Is working in Thailand is really important to you, why haven't you obtained one?

Re income requirements. Why would any country want to give retirement visas to someone with an income of US$500 a month? The idea is that you don't particularly want extra people living in your country at all but you accept that letting in a few will add some who can contribute something you want to add value to the economy and society, whether this be skills or loot. Why would they think that someone with no skills and income on the poverty line is gong to add any value? What is the relevance of comparing the value they want you to add with the income levels of average Thais who are doing poorly economically?

The way they see it, it is very easy for unmarried or divorced foreign men to come to Thailand on some kind of short stay visa and marry a poor Thai woman who thinks all farang men are rich. Again it is rather broad brush and unfair but not far off the mark. If they have children on their B15,000 a month are those kids going to generate income for private schools and hospitals. No, they are going to be a burden on the state.

I have heard the view from Thai officials that foreigners without skills or wealth should take their Thai wives and kids to live in their own countries which are rich and can provide them with a high level of free social services. Unfair, maybe, but that is the mindset and it is best to be aware of it before settling down and starting a Thai family.

Arkady, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

Edited February 5, 2013 by Om85

[Arkady]

, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

I don't think it is as easy in many countries as you suggest. For example I worked for a company with a subsidiary in Singapore and two of our Singaporean employees were forced to relocate to Johore and commute from there because they had married Malaysian women and the Singapore govt refused to grant their wives residence. There are also numerous Europeans and Americans who will disagree with you because they have lawfully wedded Thais or people from other lesser developed countries and find they are unable to obtain visas for their spouses to come and live with them in their home country. Yes, more developed countries tend to allow foreign spouses of their citizens to work once they have obtained residence but they are selective about the spouses they let in. Thailand does things the other way round. They let in everyone but don't give them the automatic right to work simply because they are married to a national.

Don't get me wrong. I would be happy to benefit from more rights as a spouse of a Thai and/or as a PR but you can't have it both ways. If Thailand adopted the Western approach of giving spouses of its citizens the automatic right to work, you can absolutely sure they would also adopt the Western approach of being selective about which spouses they allowed in. At any rate I think they would argue that they made it easier for foreign men with Thai wives to obtain Thai citizenship in 2008 by remove the requirement for them to have PR first and that nothing more needs to be done.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Arkady

[whybother]

Arkady, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

"Forced" to work illegally?

[moe666]

Thailand has a good offer. It is not the best in the world if you're only evaluating visa offers, which in real life, is only one factor. Having a bank account option is very unusual. Many is a vague word. Some countries require the annual import and some do not. The biggest downside of Thailand's program is no path to permanent residence.

I couldn't agree more, having overstay fines and the need to make 90 day reports always in your mind is a drag at times.

I'd like to spend the winters in Thailand and the summer in Spain - following the sun

Of course, this type of life style is quite expensive, the need to have the resources to live in both locations, plus travel costs for two, however, this is my choice and I spend my money with no regrets. There are no pockets in a shroud.

I love the Thai way of doing things where family comes first, second and last

Whilst the Thais, generally, are not rich in a monetary sense, they are rich beyond belief in their ability to "take care" in a family sense and I honestly feel that those riches are Priceless "to quote Mastercard!".

Any BS that has to be endured with the arduous travel, (I have a 7 hour train journey, an overnight wait in Madrid airport, 14 hours of flying in two stints with a couple of hours to change planes at half way), or with immigration in order to stay here is trivial when compared to the sheer joy of being here.

However, if the immigration was simplified, think of all the ex-pats that I would never have met whilst waiting for the paperwork to be completed.

In every cloud there is a silver lining.

What would be a blessing is if the Farang Whingers started to love and enjoy their time here and started to look for the good in anything and everything.

It's a choice, you can choose to be happy or not.

Have a little Google

Here's a link that might help

http://www.csulb.edu/~tstevens/

Not only do I like it I completely agree with it. I don't have the money to maintain a residency in two countries and not sure I would if I did. But what you said about the Thai richness in families is so right on. A fact so easy to over look for many expats in there drive for material possessions. Sadly there are way to many of them here and slowly the Thais are looking towards materialism.

My wife and her family are Thai through and through to the point where if the food is not Thai it is no good a cording to my wife. (you can imagine traveling outside the country with her) I pay 5,500 baht a month for her mothers lodging. I had to put in some improvements such as a western toilet which the wife's brother traveled 100 Kilometers to do plus other repairs before she moved in. I looked over the premisses and told the wife that if she wanted I would spend more for her mother. For me with my western upbringing it was a dump but to the Thai way of thinking it was very nice and the family chipped in to make it more accommodating for her.

This is a way of life that we don't see that much of in the western world. There is some of it like my brother who is always looking for projects he can do for the family as he loves doing that sort of things and he has run out of them at his own house. It is his form of relaxing. But you don't see a lot of that in the Western world.

I am not a big fan of the reporting system here but it is a very minor issue and as you say I have met some very interesting people in my waiting at immigration.

I agree, I am very lucky on many fronts.

I'd just turned 70 when I arrived in Thailand and have a reasonable pension (and had a few quid in the bank)..

I didn't go to the usual bar Haunts and only learned about that side of Thailand by reading books like Stephen Leather's book Private Dancer (Freely available on the internet).

I was loaned a copy of Thailand Fever and read it at least three times. It really helped me to understand the Thai way of being.

There seems to be a certain group on TV that haven't got the hang of using money and they are often miserable and mean spirited and have very little joy in their lives. They are too concerned with either making more and more money or hanging on the what they have.

How about this quote from a song by Beth Nielson Chapman:

Reach till you know how far, Trust till you know how true

Give till you know how much Loves inside of you

For this we shed our skin, Feel where each breath begins

Bleed as we pick the rose, Fall back with both eyes closed

All for the love we want......

and, from another of her songs:

How heavy the empty heart,

How light the heart that's full.

Sometimes I have to trust what I can't know

Those three lines are inspirational and make visa requirements pale in the sunset.

Enjoy every moment in The Land of Smiles.

hehehe if wwhat you learned about a aspect of Thai life came from a couple of books your knowledge is deficient

[Om85]

, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

I don't think it is as easy in many countries as you suggest. For example I worked for a company with a subsidiary in Singapore and two of our Singaporean employees were forced to relocate to Johore and commute from there because they had married Malaysian women and the Singapore govt refused to grant their wives residence. There are also numerous Europeans and Americans who will disagree with you because they have lawfully wedded Thais or people from other lesser developed countries and find they are unable to obtain visas for their spouses to come and live with them in their home country. Yes, more developed countries tend to allow foreign spouses of their citizens to work once they have obtained residence but they are selective about the spouses they let in. Thailand does things the other way round. They let in everyone but don't give them the automatic right to work simply because they are married to a national.

Don't get me wrong. I would be happy to benefit from more rights as a spouse of a Thai and/or as a PR but you can't have it both ways. If Thailand adopted the Western approach of giving spouses of its citizens the automatic right to work, you can absolutely sure they would also adopt the Western approach of being selective about which spouses they allowed in. At any rate I think they would argue that they made it easier for foreign men with Thai wives to obtain Thai citizenship in 2008 by remove the requirement for them to have PR first and that nothing more needs to be done.

The example about Malaysia and Singapore is not valid cuz there is always tensions between malaysia and singapore, but in singapore once you get married to a singaporean, is very easy to work and to get the pr, I am not saying that people who marry a Thai should be authomaticaly allowed to come to live and work here, of course they should check and be sure that is a true marriege not a fraud , exactly like they do in west, and in japan, but once you have passed the necessary checks, then you should be allowed to come in an work freely, almost all my familly live in the US and I still don't know one single case in which and american citizen married to a foreigner could not get a visa and a greend card to his/her husband/wife unless she/he had any kind of criminal record or something like that, I also think that people with pr should be allowed to work here without restrictions but that is another topic Edited February 6, 2013 by Om85

[Om85]

Arkady, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

[whybother]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

[Pimay1]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

[BWPattaya]

Arkady, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

That is what is termed a cognitive distortion. They choose to work illegally, they are not forced to.

On your other note. I used to work in the UK with a Malaysian national. She married an English man. Her Malaysian nationality was revoked by Malaysia because she married a foreigner. When they both retired they wanted to move to Penang under the "Malasia, My second home" program but were prevented from doing so. They retired to Thailand and travel to Penang whenever they want.

[Pimay1]

Arkady, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

My friend I think you have forced and choose a bit confused.

For an examole. I want to move to Chicago. I do the homework and know before moving there there unemployment is 50% and the Mayor has made a decree that anyone wanting to move to Chicago to work must deposit $10,000 in a local bank to insure they will not be on the welfare roll. I don't have $10,000 but I choose to go there anyway. When I arrive I go to the employment office to register for employment. The ask me for my bank ststement showing $10,000. I tell the them I don't have that much. Then I am not meeting the qualifications for employment.

I really want to stay in Chicago so I CHOOSE to break the law by working illegally in the city. I am not forced to do this. It is my own independent decision because I do not have to stay there.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Pimay1

[TommoPhysicist]

For an examole. I want to move to Chicago. I do the homework and know before moving there there unemployment is 50% and the Mayor has made a decree that anyone wanting to move to Chicago to work must deposit $10,000 in a local bank to insure they will not be on the welfare roll. I don't have $10,000 but I choose to go there anyway. When I arrive I go to the employment office to register for employment. The ask me for my bank ststement showing $10,000. I tell the them I don't have that much. Then I am not meeting the qualifications for employment.

I really want to stay in Chicago so I CHOOSE to break the law by working illegally in the city. I am not forced to do this. It is my own independent decision because I do not have to stay there.

How about, if you had $10,000 moved to Chicago, married a local lady, had three children, then ran out of money 15 years later?

[Pimay1]

For an examole. I want to move to Chicago. I do the homework and know before moving there there unemployment is 50% and the Mayor has made a decree that anyone wanting to move to Chicago to work must deposit $10,000 in a local bank to insure they will not be on the welfare roll. I don't have $10,000 but I choose to go there anyway. When I arrive I go to the employment office to register for employment. The ask me for my bank ststement showing $10,000. I tell the them I don't have that much. Then I am not meeting the qualifications for employment.

I really want to stay in Chicago so I CHOOSE to break the law by working illegally in the city. I am not forced to do this. It is my own independent decision because I do not have to stay there.

How about, if you had $10,000 moved to Chicago, married a local lady, had three children, then ran out of money 15 years later?

I would have to obey the law of Chicago at that time. I would probably try to source the funds if possible but if not I'm screwed and probably sell my house and move to another place without such strigent requirements.

[Om85]

Arkady, it seems to me that you missundertood what I was saying, first of all as I wrote in other posts, I don't have only one degree but two, I don't have any economical problems neither, now I have all the requirements to apply for both PR and Citizenship, but I do know many people, europeans, asians, africans and asians who are married to Thais and are foreced to work illegaly here( teaching, english, chinese or working in restaurants, bars etc without wp) because for one reason or another they don't have the resourses to get a degree,the age or others.I think that as in most of countries people married or that have children should be allow to work freely in order to provide for their families, the same should apply for those with PR.

People that come to retire/ work/ invest here are a completly different thing, they don't need to come here, they come here just because they want, but people who have family not. For example in japan, spain, costa rica, panama, us, mexico, r. dominicana,singapore, italy and many other countries people that are married to a national can engage in any kind of payed activity, why? because of humanitarians reasons, and I don't really understant how so many people in this forum can't see that, just to give an example in the case of war, must of investors, retirees etc will be the first in leaving this country, but I just can't, cuz my familly and the familly of my wife to whish I am profoundly indebted( that I see as my own too) live here and they r not going to desert their country, that's my point of view, I still dont have the Thai citizenship but I consider thailand so dear and so beloved as my own motherland and hopefully in the near future I will get my citizenship too, that's all what I meant when I wrote my post.

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

My friend I think you have forced and choose a bit confused.

For an examole. I want to move to Chicago. I do the homework and know before moving there there unemployment is 50% and the Mayor has made a decree that anyone wanting to move to Chicago to work must deposit $10,000 in a local bank to insure they will not be on the welfare roll. I don't have $10,000 but I choose to go there anyway. When I arrive I go to the employment office to register for employment. The ask me for my bank ststement showing $10,000. I tell the them I don't have that much. Then I am not meeting the qualifications for employment.

I really want to stay in Chicago so I CHOOSE to break the law by working illegally in the city. I am not forced to do this. It is my own independent decision because I do not have to stay there.

My, friend, u r talking about business, where you can choose where/when to go , I am talking about family, love and family.

[Om85]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

Indeed, when you can't earn your daily bread legally, then you are forced to do it illegally, otherwise u'll starve.

[Kripe]

Well, this is something that I've been thinking about , who the hell cares if the number of people on retirement visas increases or decreases, or if the most of the applicants r britishers or russians, they, they are not the real problem, the elephant in the room is the huge number of foreigners( of all nationalities and colors) that hav thai families( married to thais, or that have thai husdband/wife) and don't even have the right to earn a living in this country unless you hav a bachellor degree, or lots of money in the bank. we r thousand of people in this situtatuion, and it seems that no one in teh goverment care about us or about the well-being of our thai relative who in most of cases depends on us, at least give us the chance of work freely, eliminate the income requirements to our visa or make it equal to the normal income of a thai 15000 bath/ month ( 400,000 yearly = 33,333/month), and pleace lower the income requirements for pr and citizenship as well, we r human beings and our thai families too.

Please check the immigration rules for your own contry - where I come form Thais has to show they have 40.000 THB for every month they want to stay - this is even if they come for holyday...

Is not the same going on vacations that going cuz ur husband/wife/son/doughter live there, I'm not talking about tourism.

If they want to stay the required money is even higher :-)

[Om85]

Well, this is something that I've been thinking about , who the hell cares if the number of people on retirement visas increases or decreases, or if the most of the applicants r britishers or russians, they, they are not the real problem, the elephant in the room is the huge number of foreigners( of all nationalities and colors) that hav thai families( married to thais, or that have thai husdband/wife) and don't even have the right to earn a living in this country unless you hav a bachellor degree, or lots of money in the bank. we r thousand of people in this situtatuion, and it seems that no one in teh goverment care about us or about the well-being of our thai relative who in most of cases depends on us, at least give us the chance of work freely, eliminate the income requirements to our visa or make it equal to the normal income of a thai 15000 bath/ month ( 400,000 yearly = 33,333/month), and pleace lower the income requirements for pr and citizenship as well, we r human beings and our thai families too.

Please check the immigration rules for your own contry - where I come form Thais has to show they have 40.000 THB for every month they want to stay - this is even if they come for holyday...

Is not the same going on vacations that going cuz ur husband/wife/son/doughter live there, I'm not talking about tourism.

If they want to stay the required money is even higher :-)

Maybe in your country, but in mines is not like tha, fortunately

[Pimay1]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

Indeed, when you can't earn your daily bread legally, then you are forced to do it illegally, otherwise u'll starve.

No one forced me to come to this country. I chose to come here. I knew what the monetary requirements were for me to stay here long term before I made the decision to come here. I did not come here expecting to find a job and support my family. This is putting the cart before the horse and would have been a very unwise.

[Om85]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

Indeed, when you can't earn your daily bread legally, then you are forced to do it illegally, otherwise u'll starve.

No one forced me to come to this country. I chose to come here. I knew what the monetary requirements were for me to stay here long term before I made the decision to come here. I did not come here expecting to find a job and support my family. This is putting the cart before the horse and would have been a very unwise.

You just don\t get it .

[hellodolly]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

Indeed, when you can't earn your daily bread legally, then you are forced to do it illegally, otherwise u'll starve.

No one forced me to come to this country. I chose to come here. I knew what the monetary requirements were for me to stay here long term before I made the decision to come here. I did not come here expecting to find a job and support my family. This is putting the cart before the horse and would have been a very unwise.

You just don\t get it .

I guess I don't either. I knew the requirements before coming here and if I can not make them I can return to where I came from and the nanny government will take care of me.

Can you explain where I am wrong?

[Pimay1]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

Indeed, when you can't earn your daily bread legally, then you are forced to do it illegally, otherwise u'll starve.

No one forced me to come to this country. I chose to come here. I knew what the monetary requirements were for me to stay here long term before I made the decision to come here. I did not come here expecting to find a job and support my family. This is putting the cart before the horse and would have been a very unwise.

You just don\t get it .

Ok if you say so. Please tell me why the situation I described does not apply to you and every other foreigner wishing to come to Thailand and remain here long term. Why is your situation different?

[Om85]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

Indeed, when you can't earn your daily bread legally, then you are forced to do it illegally, otherwise u'll starve.

No one forced me to come to this country. I chose to come here. I knew what the monetary requirements were for me to stay here long term before I made the decision to come here. I did not come here expecting to find a job and support my family. This is putting the cart before the horse and would have been a very unwise.

You just don\t get it .

Ok if you say so. Please tell me why the situation I described does not apply to you and every other foreigner wishing to come to Thailand and remain here long term. Why is your situation different?

I already explained the sistuation and my points of view in another posts, hav no time for this.

[Pimay1]

"Forced" to work illegally?

Yes, forced to work illegally since they can't get a wp, and there are many of them out there.

Is that like being forced to rob a 7/11?

There is a world of difference in being forced and choosing to do something.

Indeed, when you can't earn your daily bread legally, then you are forced to do it illegally, otherwise u'll starve.

No one forced me to come to this country. I chose to come here. I knew what the monetary requirements were for me to stay here long term before I made the decision to come here. I did not come here expecting to find a job and support my family. This is putting the cart before the horse and would have been a very unwise.

You just don\t get it .

Ok if you say so. Please tell me why the situation I described does not apply to you and every other foreigner wishing to come to Thailand and remain here long term. Why is your situation different?

I already explained the sistuation and my points of view in another posts, hav no time for this.

As you wish. Have a nice Sunday.