F1 2013

[carmine]

'The team will protect Sebastian as usual' (or similar) - Weber on the podium interview. This whole thing will require a lot of work from Honer to get the team feeling back to good again.

There will be no work in repairing of the situation,.Vettel and Webber are officially at war and neither will help each other till season's end, at which point Webber will move on from the team.

Horner will do nothing except Marko & Vettel's bidding, he doesn't have the balls or wherewithal to stand up to either.

Spot on. Personally i think Vettel deserves a one race ban. Thats the only way the message will get through, certainly not by way of a fine but its all hypothetical because cristian Horner hasn't the balls to do either

[wackysleet]

Rix.

Now we come to Lewis and Nico, I have already stated that Lewis made a point of giving credit to Nico but in all honesty after the whole world and his dog heard Nico being told to hold station was a joke and if Lewis had made a point during his interview on the podium of how he tried but could not quite catch Red Bull would have lost him a lot of support.

Don't understand this paragraph. Can you explain again please.

Rix.

Sorry if that seemed confusing but I did credit Lewis with pointing out that Nico was faster than him and that he Nico should have been on the podium in 3rd place rather than him, what appears to be confusing is the fact that after viewers saw and heard what was said over the radio Lewis could not in all honesty have denied Nicos rightful place on the podium and if he {Lewis} had made any suggestion that he deservered the 3rd spot would I think have lost him support, and I know he did not and that's to his credit but I really do not understand why there is so much furore over Seb and Mark but hardly anything being said about Lewis and Nico which was far more blatant that Red Bull.

[rixalex]

Rix.

I think you may have misinterpreted my meaning, I simply meant we don't know if there was an agreement advocated by the team that Seb may or may not have readily agreed with, my doubts on the subject are that the drivers with their past history probably would not have made a personal agreement and it was a team decision and not a drivers decision and at the time in question Seb decided not to adhere to it and as I do not agree with position fixing then drivers should be allowed to race.

David.

Well, i'm pretty convinced Seb would have readily agreed to it had he been the one in front at the closing stages of a race and had Webber been trying to get past.

I too am against the fixing of positions, i just think that all the while FIA say that it's ok, and all the while teams include such policies, the drivers have to either make a stand and make it very clear to the team that they will not abide by it and do not expect their team mate to either, or they go along with it and take the advantages and the disadvantages as and when they have to. They can't straddle both sides of the fence, accepting when it's in their favour, and ignoring when it's not. That is what i feel Seb is guilty of. I think if he wasn't guilty of that, his first response to all this anger against him would of been along the lines of "now hold on a sec, i made it clear that i did not want anything to do with that stupid not passing agreement". He didn't. He has looked bashful and embarrassed.

[rixalex]

Rix.

I have never been an advocate of team orders for drivers but I do understand why it's done with a driver moving over to allow his team mate to become WDC.

Fans should understand that teams are not participating in the sport for the benefit of fans, it's for the publicity of their sponsors and money.

David.

Mosha.

The most exciting bit of the race {I USE THAT TERM LOOSELY} was the little tussle between Mark and Seb, thats what racing should be like.

The procession of Lewis and Nico was an insult to spectators and the teams should apologise to the paying public, without which the sponsors would not bother to advertise their wares.

David.

Must admit i am a bit confused by your position on all this David. Before the race you advised fans to keep in mind that teams are not in this for them, they are in this for the sponsors, and after the race, you seem to be outraged by what you yourself were advising, and demanded an apology from the teams.

[wackysleet]

Rix.

I have made my position clear on what I think of the rules and also my views on what may or may not have taken place because I simply do not know and posters opinions on whether it's right or wrong is subjective.

I post on here my views only and I endeavour not to be controversial or deem other posters views wrong, I do not know what was going through Sebs head at the time so cannot comment but in my view he was not happy with the situation and did what he did possibly out of total frustration.

With Nico the position was such that Nico just sat back fuming at the injustice of it possibly because it is now blatently obvious that Lewis is number 1 and his position is not as strong as Sebs in their respective teams.

David.

[rixalex]

Rix.

With Nico the position was such that Nico just sat back fuming at the injustice of it possibly because it is now blatently obvious that Lewis is number 1 and his position is not as strong as Sebs in their respective teams.

David.

We'll only know that if and when the situations are reversed. Unless there is a massive points difference between them, i would be amazed if Nico isn't extended the same "courtesy" of Lewis not being allowed to pass, but we'll have to wait and see.

For what it is worth, Brawn did expressly state when Lewis signed that he would not be given number one status. Proof will be in the pudding. Both drivers will anyway attempt to force the team to effectively treat them as a number one, not by their contract, but by out driving the other. That is what determines the pecking order more than anything... in the long run anyway.

[wackysleet]

Rix.

I have never been an advocate of team orders for drivers but I do understand why it's done with a driver moving over to allow his team mate to become WDC.

Fans should understand that teams are not participating in the sport for the benefit of fans, it's for the publicity of their sponsors and money.

David.

>Mosha.

The most exciting bit of the race {I USE THAT TERM LOOSELY} was the little tussle between Mark and Seb, thats what racing should be like.

The procession of Lewis and Nico was an insult to spectators and the teams should apologise to the paying public, without which the sponsors would not bother to advertise their wares.

David.

Must admit i am a bit confused by your position on all this David. Before the race you advised fans to keep in mind that teams are not in this for them, they are in this for the sponsors, and after the race, you seem to be outraged by what you yourself were advising, and demanded an apology from the teams.

Rix.

There is nothing confusing about what I said in the least, my views have always been the same whoever is receiving the benefits and that includes Fernando, my favourite driver, the point I endeavoured to make was that the fans are the ones who ultimately pay for the sport and without them there would be no sponsors, my problem is that the teams have forgotten that the fans are the important ones in this and concentrate on the sponsors at the expense of the fans.

There is nothing

[rixalex]

Rix.

I have never been an advocate of team orders for drivers but I do understand why it's done with a driver moving over to allow his team mate to become WDC.

Fans should understand that teams are not participating in the sport for the benefit of fans, it's for the publicity of their sponsors and money.

David.

>>Mosha.

The most exciting bit of the race {I USE THAT TERM LOOSELY} was the little tussle between Mark and Seb, thats what racing should be like.

The procession of Lewis and Nico was an insult to spectators and the teams should apologise to the paying public, without which the sponsors would not bother to advertise their wares.

David.lockquote>

Must admit i am a bit confused by your position on all this David. Before the race you advised fans to keep in mind that teams are not in this for them, they are in this for the sponsors, and after the race, you seem to be outraged by what you yourself were advising, and demanded an apology from the teams.

Rix.

There is nothing confusing about what I said in the least, my views have always been the same whoever is receiving the benefits and that includes Fernando, my favourite driver, the point I endeavoured to make was that the fans are the ones who ultimately pay for the sport and without them there would be no sponsors, my problem is that the teams have forgotten that the fans are the important ones in this and concentrate on the sponsors at the expense of the fans.

There is nothing

I guess it is just that i wasn't, previous to this race, aware of how strongly you felt about the business of team orders.. but you are of course not in any way obligated to express your every thought to us on here, so i assume you've always felt this way but never had cause to mention it, either that or you have mentioned it and i missed it.

Whatever the case, i am in full agreement with what you say above. Perhaps the only difference is that my anger is directed not towards the teams, but towards the FIA who, on the back of the "Fernando is faster than you" episode - which was a direct and blatant challenge of the rules book - effectively acquiesced and gave the teams a green light to go ahead and contrive results between their drivers however they pleased, which was a step back in my opinion and has led us to where we are today.

Edited March 27, 2013 by rixalex

[b19bry]

my anger is directed not towards the teams, but towards the FIA who, on the back of the "Fernando is faster than you" episode - which was a direct and blatant challenge of the rules book - effectively acquiesced and gave the teams a green light to go ahead and contrive results between their drivers however they pleased

Well there we have it, always knew the dastardly Alonso would be at the bottom of this

[rixalex]

Although it would be very tough on Mark, and there would be an uproar from a lot of people, from a purely racing perspective, Red Bull would probably in my opinion, be better off giving Mark the heave-ho and getting someone else in to replace him immediately The relationship between those drivers from now until the end of the season is going to be caustic, i don't think Horner has any chance of controlling them, and it could actually end up being quite dangerous. They can't very well get rid of their two-times World Champ, and possibly the best driver on the grid, so it has to be Mark that makes way. Might not even be a bad thing if Horner was replaced as well, as his authority has been publicly challenged. All very drastic i know and i can't really see it happening, but just continuing as they are is a recipe for potential disaster in my opinion.

With regards TV coverage, i'm wondering how many of you guys watched it on Fox Sports as i did. The timing of the advertising this race was awful. Every time they cut away for ads - a lot of the ads were advertising themselves... how ridiculous is that? - it was at a crucial time, like when pit stops were happening. I didn't even get to see Lewis's diversion in the pit lane to visit some old friends, which did sound very amusing. Were you guys watching it on Star Sports or some other channel?

[Ace of Pop]

Evert time i hear Fernando i expect Abba to popup singing. Id prefer that, im not a Fan of his, Nico ,Mark and Button i like .

[candypants]

Mosha.

Wasn't it at Brazil last season that Mark nearly put Seb into the wall and then publicly stated that Fernando deserved to win the WDC so it's hardly surprising that they don't get on.

David.

indeed, there was also a race last year when they had to box webber early because he wasn't moving over when bidden.

there is a history there, and given how hard seb had to work in the last race to win by a remarkably narrow margin, i am not surprised he went for maximum points.

[candypants]

'The team will protect Sebastian as usual' (or similar) - Weber on the podium interview. This whole thing will require a lot of work from Honer to get the team feeling back to good again.

There will be no work in repairing of the situation,.Vettel and Webber are officially at war and neither will help each other till season's end, at which point Webber will move on from the team.

Horner will do nothing except Marko & Vettel's bidding, he doesn't have the balls or wherewithal to stand up to either.

Spot on. Personally i think Vettel deserves a one race ban. Thats the only way the message will get through, certainly not by way of a fine but its all hypothetical because cristian Horner hasn't the balls to do either

wouldn't banning his 3 times wdc from collecting points in the next race hamper redbulls progress in both the drivers and constructors championships?

why would any team principle in his right mind bite off his nose to spite his face?

Edited March 28, 2013 by candypants

[rixalex]

'The team will protect Sebastian as usual' (or similar) - Weber on the podium interview. This whole thing will require a lot of work from Honer to get the team feeling back to good again.

There will be no work in repairing of the situation,.Vettel and Webber are officially at war and neither will help each other till season's end, at which point Webber will move on from the team.

Horner will do nothing except Marko & Vettel's bidding, he doesn't have the balls or wherewithal to stand up to either.

Spot on. Personally i think Vettel deserves a one race ban. Thats the only way the message will get through, certainly not by way of a fine but its all hypothetical because cristian Horner hasn't the balls to do either

wouldn't banning his 3 times wdc from collecting points in the next race hamper redbulls progress in both the drivers and constructors championships?

why would any team principle in his right mind bite off his nose to spite his face?

Yes i can't understand that idea either. John Watson has been saying the same sort of thing. I do agree though that something needs to happen and that Horner needs to somehow reassert his authority and show who is boss.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/mar/25/sebastian-vettel-mark-webber-ban

[Mosha]

Although it would be very tough on Mark, and there would be an uproar from a lot of people, from a purely racing perspective, Red Bull would probably in my opinion, be better off giving Mark the heave-ho and getting someone else in to replace him immediately The relationship between those drivers from now until the end of the season is going to be caustic, i don't think Horner has any chance of controlling them, and it could actually end up being quite dangerous. They can't very well get rid of their two-times World Champ, and possibly the best driver on the grid, so it has to be Mark that makes way. Might not even be a bad thing if Horner was replaced as well, as his authority has been publicly challenged. All very drastic i know and i can't really see it happening, but just continuing as they are is a recipe for potential disaster in my opinion.

With regards TV coverage, i'm wondering how many of you guys watched it on Fox Sports as i did. The timing of the advertising this race was awful. Every time they cut away for ads - a lot of the ads were advertising themselves... how ridiculous is that? - it was at a crucial time, like when pit stops were happening. I didn't even get to see Lewis's diversion in the pit lane to visit some old friends, which did sound very amusing. Were you guys watching it on Star Sports or some other channel?

It wasn't caustic before?

[rixalex]

Although it would be very tough on Mark, and there would be an uproar from a lot of people, from a purely racing perspective, Red Bull would probably in my opinion, be better off giving Mark the heave-ho and getting someone else in to replace him immediately The relationship between those drivers from now until the end of the season is going to be caustic, i don't think Horner has any chance of controlling them, and it could actually end up being quite dangerous. They can't very well get rid of their two-times World Champ, and possibly the best driver on the grid, so it has to be Mark that makes way. Might not even be a bad thing if Horner was replaced as well, as his authority has been publicly challenged. All very drastic i know and i can't really see it happening, but just continuing as they are is a recipe for potential disaster in my opinion.

With regards TV coverage, i'm wondering how many of you guys watched it on Fox Sports as i did. The timing of the advertising this race was awful. Every time they cut away for ads - a lot of the ads were advertising themselves... how ridiculous is that? - it was at a crucial time, like when pit stops were happening. I didn't even get to see Lewis's diversion in the pit lane to visit some old friends, which did sound very amusing. Were you guys watching it on Star Sports or some other channel?

It wasn't caustic before?

Caustic to the degree of them publicly arguing and being visibly enraged. No i don't think so, but anyway, if what Horner says is true:

Team principal Christian Horner revealed Vettel apologised to the whole Red Bull factory this week.

"He's said he can't turn back the clock but he's accepted what he did was wrong," Horner said.

"He's apologised to the team and to every single member of staff for his actions, because he recognises the team is vitally important and being part of the team is a crucial aspect to being able to challenge for those championships."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21967790

...well then they should put it behind them and just hope that in the next few races the two drivers don't end up fighting for the same bit of track, because if they do, neither will give an inch and a coming together will in my opinion be highly likely. If nothing else, i guess it will be interesting, and that's no bad thing!

Edited March 29, 2013 by rixalex

[candypants]

Although it would be very tough on Mark, and there would be an uproar from a lot of people, from a purely racing perspective, Red Bull would probably in my opinion, be better off giving Mark the heave-ho and getting someone else in to replace him immediately The relationship between those drivers from now until the end of the season is going to be caustic, i don't think Horner has any chance of controlling them, and it could actually end up being quite dangerous. They can't very well get rid of their two-times World Champ, and possibly the best driver on the grid, so it has to be Mark that makes way. Might not even be a bad thing if Horner was replaced as well, as his authority has been publicly challenged. All very drastic i know and i can't really see it happening, but just continuing as they are is a recipe for potential disaster in my opinion.

With regards TV coverage, i'm wondering how many of you guys watched it on Fox Sports as i did. The timing of the advertising this race was awful. Every time they cut away for ads - a lot of the ads were advertising themselves... how ridiculous is that? - it was at a crucial time, like when pit stops were happening. I didn't even get to see Lewis's diversion in the pit lane to visit some old friends, which did sound very amusing. Were you guys watching it on Star Sports or some other channel?

i watched the HD coverage on true, and we commented that the were far les interruptions. lewis' pit wanderings were also broadcast.

no exotic super cars ads at all was another bonus

[rixalex]

Although it would be very tough on Mark, and there would be an uproar from a lot of people, from a purely racing perspective, Red Bull would probably in my opinion, be better off giving Mark the heave-ho and getting someone else in to replace him immediately The relationship between those drivers from now until the end of the season is going to be caustic, i don't think Horner has any chance of controlling them, and it could actually end up being quite dangerous. They can't very well get rid of their two-times World Champ, and possibly the best driver on the grid, so it has to be Mark that makes way. Might not even be a bad thing if Horner was replaced as well, as his authority has been publicly challenged. All very drastic i know and i can't really see it happening, but just continuing as they are is a recipe for potential disaster in my opinion.

With regards TV coverage, i'm wondering how many of you guys watched it on Fox Sports as i did. The timing of the advertising this race was awful. Every time they cut away for ads - a lot of the ads were advertising themselves... how ridiculous is that? - it was at a crucial time, like when pit stops were happening. I didn't even get to see Lewis's diversion in the pit lane to visit some old friends, which did sound very amusing. Were you guys watching it on Star Sports or some other channel?

i watched the HD coverage on true, and we commented that the were far les interruptions. lewis' pit wanderings were also broadcast.

no exotic super cars ads at all was another bonus

That's bizarre. As far as i know, there is only one HD channel broadcasting F1 on True and that is Fox Sports. I was glued to the TV the whole time, and at the time Lewis came into the pits and made his blunder, they were showing ads. Were you watching it on Fox too?

[candypants]

yes. Fox, truevisions Bangkok.

we laughed like hell when ham went visiting

in fact, there was at least one momentwhere there was no commentary for about a minute, we figured it was the due to commercials on the sky feed we weren't seeing.

It was by far not the typical Slater we will be back after the break as the first round o stops begins

[rixalex]

yes. Fox, truevisions Bangkok.

we laughed like hell when ham went visiting

in fact, there was at least one momentwhere there was no commentary for about a minute, we figured it was the due to commercials on the sky feed we weren't seeing.

It was by far not the typical Slater we will be back after the break as the first round o stops begins

Sky Sports coverage that is broadcast in the UK does not have ads, as it bloody well should be!

Thinking about it, i did watch the evening broadcast which was a reshowing of the race from the afternoon. Perhaps they decided to throw in ads at different times and that's why i missed it and you didn't. Speaking of the reshowings, would it really be so difficult for them to press the pause button when they go to ads, so that we might be able to watch the entire race without missing anything. One wouldn't of thought so, but there you go.

Didn't understand your last sentence. Are you saying that Slater is coming back?! Please no!

Edited March 29, 2013 by rixalex

[carmine]

'The team will protect Sebastian as usual' (or similar) - Weber on the podium interview. This whole thing will require a lot of work from Honer to get the team feeling back to good again.

There will be no work in repairing of the situation,.Vettel and Webber are officially at war and neither will help each other till season's end, at which point Webber will move on from the team.

Horner will do nothing except Marko & Vettel's bidding, he doesn't have the balls or wherewithal to stand up to either.

Spot on. Personally i think Vettel deserves a one race ban. Thats the only way the message will get through, certainly not by way of a fine but its all hypothetical because cristian Horner hasn't the balls to do either

wouldn't banning his 3 times wdc from collecting points in the next race hamper redbulls progress in both the drivers and constructors championships?

why would any team principle in his right mind bite off his nose to spite his face?

The way its going there we be an "off" with the two of them which will be even more damaging. Vettel needs pulling in line and Horner needs to show he's not really the doormat he looks. If there is anything similar in the future..and there almost certainly will be, then there could be a very nasty accident.

The best way to have sorted it would have been for Webber to punch Vettels lights out. I can think of a number of past drivers that would have approved of it this way. Just have it out, shake hands and move on.

[rixalex]

The best way to have sorted it would have been for Webber to punch Vettels lights out. I can think of a number of past drivers that would have approved of it this way. Just have it out, shake hands and move on.

I was shocked to see the other day in Vettel's stats column that he only weighs 58kg, so Mark might actually stand a chance in a fist fight.

[carmine]

Although it would be very tough on Mark, and there would be an uproar from a lot of people, from a purely racing perspective, Red Bull would probably in my opinion, be better off giving Mark the heave-ho and getting someone else in to replace him immediately The relationship between those drivers from now until the end of the season is going to be caustic, i don't think Horner has any chance of controlling them, and it could actually end up being quite dangerous. They can't very well get rid of their two-times World Champ, and possibly the best driver on the grid, so it has to be Mark that makes way. Might not even be a bad thing if Horner was replaced as well, as his authority has been publicly challenged. All very drastic i know and i can't really see it happening, but just continuing as they are is a recipe for potential disaster in my opinion.

With regards TV coverage, i'm wondering how many of you guys watched it on Fox Sports as i did. The timing of the advertising this race was awful. Every time they cut away for ads - a lot of the ads were advertising themselves... how ridiculous is that? - it was at a crucial time, like when pit stops were happening. I didn't even get to see Lewis's diversion in the pit lane to visit some old friends, which did sound very amusing. Were you guys watching it on Star Sports or some other channel?

It wasn't caustic before?

Caustic to the degree of them publicly arguing and being visibly enraged. No i don't think so, but anyway, if what Horner says is true:

Team principal Christian Horner revealed Vettel apologised to the whole Red Bull factory this week.

"He's said he can't turn back the clock but he's accepted what he did was wrong," Horner said.

"He's apologised to the team and to every single member of staff for his actions, because he recognises the team is vitally important and being part of the team is a crucial aspect to being able to challenge for those championships."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/21967790

...well then they should put it behind them and just hope that in the next few races the two drivers don't end up fighting for the same bit of track, because if they do, neither will give an inch and a coming together will in my opinion be highly likely. If nothing else, i guess it will be interesting, and that's no bad thing!

I would say that is a pathetic attenpt by Horner at saving HIS face. i doubt it if Vettel regrets anything. I knew exactly what he was doing and he knew he would get away with it and he has. He's becoming more like Schumacher with every season.

And that business of Horner on the radio! What was it "come on Seb, this is silly!! <deleted> he might aswell be saying OOH stop it Seb it tickles!!

I loathe the whole idea of team orders but at the end of the day if that is what is agreed then it must be followed. Its down to F1 to ban it for the good of the sport.

[carmine]

The best way to have sorted it would have been for Webber to punch Vettels lights out. I can think of a number of past drivers that would have approved of it this way. Just have it out, shake hands and move on.

I was shocked to see the other day in Vettel's stats column that he only weighs 58kg, so Mark might actually stand a chance in a fist fight.

Yes and i was thinking it would probably only take a punch too! I really think some situations are best sorted out the old fashioned way. I remember Irvine copping one from Senna and yet they still moved on and got along

[Mosha]

Having said that Red Bull have said they will stop issuing team orders. Vettel has said he would probably ignore them again. Speaks volumes about him.

[rixalex]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22105955

A good article on the Webber / Vettel situation.

Those guys have got more baggage than the baggage reclaim hall at Swampy.

As someone said before, perhaps an old fashioned pit-garage square-off with a few traded blows might of helped clear the air, which must be positively festering in China now.

[wackysleet]

At least Seb has said he would do the same again and is not hiding behind the so called team orders. Mark has on numerous occassions in the recent past totally ignored team orders when he has felt like it but what a situation when you know the only chance you have of beating your team mate is when he is told to let you win, a very satisfying moment I don't think.

Please. all you knowledgable pundits out there explain to me how a team running two totally different strategies can decide that the one strategy that is suspect and may/likely fail can be given preference over the strategy that is shown to be performing better and is the more appropiate under the circumstances.

What really dismays me about posters on here who purport to be fans have never complained about Lewis blatant disregard for team orders at Monaco during his race with his team mate Fernando and only obeyed instructions when Ron Dennis took over the radio and blasted him.

[Mosha]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22105955

A good article on the Webber / Vettel situation.

Those guys have got more baggage than the baggage reclaim hall at Swampy.

As someone said before, perhaps an old fashioned pit-garage square-off with a few traded blows might of helped clear the air, which must be positively festering in China now.

Red Bull sat the situation is "settled".

[rixalex]

At least Seb has said he would do the same again and is not hiding behind the so called team orders.

Seb doesn't hide behind team orders? Well, I agree that Seb really doesn't need team orders as he is such a good driver, but the fact remains that he has benefited from team orders in the past, and so unless he was opposed to being given an advantage over Mark in the past and argued against it, i don't really see how he can be opposed when it works in the other direction. Kind of cherry picking when you think team orders should be adhered to and when you think they shouldn't. Not that i'm saying Mark is innocent of the same sort of hypocrisy in the past, or for that matter any of the other drivers.

[Mosha]

At least Seb has said he would do the same again and is not hiding behind the so called team orders. Mark has on numerous occassions in the recent past totally ignored team orders when he has felt like it but what a situation when you know the only chance you have of beating your team mate is when he is told to let you win, a very satisfying moment I don't think.

Please. all you knowledgable pundits out there explain to me how a team running two totally different strategies can decide that the one strategy that is suspect and may/likely fail can be given preference over the strategy that is shown to be performing better and is the more appropiate under the circumstances.

What really dismays me about posters on here who purport to be fans have never complained about Lewis blatant disregard for team orders at Monaco during his race with his team mate Fernando and only obeyed instructions when Ron Dennis took over the radio and blasted him.

I can't remember watching that one. I'm not a fan of Monaco, it's the one location that really bores the tits off of me.