A Thai Selling Land Do They Need Both Husband And Wife To Sign

[WilliamCave]

Hi I am talking to my wife about some property and she wants to buy some land. The land is in a women's name only not her husbands name . And the lady has also borrowed money against he property with the bank.

If she sells the land does she need her husband to sign also or can she sell it with out the husbands signature. The husband is in a bad mental state in a hospital.

Thanks in advance

[Nisasina]

Normally, the landlord/landlady cans sell the land by themselves if there is their only one name into the land property paper, no need to get her husband's signature. the lady cans see it behind her property paper. Even her husband musts sign the document, the lady cans ask his doctor issue the document to confirm his sickness and also the lady should pay the lawyer to write the letter then she cans present those papers to the department of land.

[jamescollister]

Depends on if the land is marital property or she owned it before marriage.

If she owes money to the bank using the land as collateral you have a problem. Jim

[WilliamCave]

Normally, the landlord/landlady cans sell the land by themselves if there is their only one name into the land property paper, no need to get her husband's signature. the lady cans see it behind her property paper. Even her husband musts sign the document, the lady cans ask his doctor issue the document to confirm his sickness and also the lady should pay the lawyer to write the letter then she cans present those papers to the department of land.

She is the only one on the land papers on the back her husband name is not on the dead so she can sell it you are saying ?

[WilliamCave]

Depends on if the land is marital property or she owned it before marriage.

If she owes money to the bank using the land as collateral you have a problem. Jim

The bank loan is payed off first done through the banks when she borrows money to buy the land the bank she deals with pays of the loan and she assumes a new mortage for the land .

Good point about material property she had it given to her by her husband. But it is fully in her name

[rekkie]

Something very similar and very recent, land sale from a company to a thai lady who is married to a Farang. The Farang wanted it in his wife's name. At the land office Pats they insisted that the husband signed for the transfer as well as the thai wife. As the Farang was working abroad the land sale was postponed.

I would therefore suspect that selling would require the two signatures. I would also second the advice about borrowing on land and making sure your lawyer has it in hand that loans or liens are paid off prior to you taking title

[WilliamCave]

Something very similar and very recent, land sale from a company to a thai lady who is married to a Farang. The Farang wanted it in his wife's name. At the land office Pats they insisted that the husband signed for the transfer as well as the thai wife. As the Farang was working abroad the land sale was postponed.

I would therefore suspect that selling would require the two signatures. I would also second the advice about borrowing on land and making sure your lawyer has it in hand that loans or liens are paid off prior to you taking title

My wife talked to the bank about a loan to buy and the bank she would borrow the money from said they pay off the loan on the land directly to the other bank, this would all be done through the banks.

I told her to look in to it further

As to the farang over seas the reason he maybe his wife could not buy the land is because he has to sign off on any ownership to the land. And he needs to have the papers witnessed .

[jamescollister]

Depends on if the land is marital property or she owned it before marriage.

If she owes money to the bank using the land as collateral you have a problem. Jim

The bank loan is payed off first done through the banks when she borrows money to buy the land the bank she deals with pays of the loan and she assumes a new mortage for the land .

Good point about material property she had it given to her by her husband. But it is fully in her name

The way I read your post, the land is communal property and the husband will need to sign. If the husband is in care he may not be able to sign, then you will need a court order, if his wife doesn't already have power of attorney over his affairs.

As to the bank thing, is she just getting a personal loan to pay off the other bank, thus clearing the loan. Sounds a bit complex. Who is holding the title bank or the seller, get a land lawyer to do the deal and make sure it's all above board. jim

[WilliamCave]

Depends on if the land is marital property or she owned it before marriage.

If she owes money to the bank using the land as collateral you have a problem. Jim

The bank loan is payed off first done through the banks when she borrows money to buy the land the bank she deals with pays of the loan and she assumes a new mortage for the land .

Good point about material property she had it given to her by her husband. But it is fully in her name

The way I read your post, the land is communal property and the husband will need to sign. If the husband is in care he may not be able to sign, then you will need a court order, if his wife doesn't already have power of attorney over his affairs.

As to the bank thing, is she just getting a personal loan to pay off the other bank, thus clearing the loan. Sounds a bit complex. Who is holding the title bank or the seller, get a land lawyer to do the deal and make sure it's all above board. jim

Thanks for the info I was worried about that part of the land ownership the wife wants to sell the land with out the husbands knowledge as he is in a mental hospital at his time. As to the loan my wife will be getting a mortage from her bank to buy the property and as she has a loan out on the property now that has to be paid of first.

[misterme]

If married in Thailand, both husband and wife must sign.

In terms of who needs to sign:

It does not matter if the property is in one name or both. It does not matter if the property was bought before or after the marriage. Same with bank loans, etc.

The spouse is required to be informed and authorize with signature.

Do not confuse this with 'whose property is it?' OPs question is not about division of assets, only about land title office procedure.

Spouse has to sign... 100%

[WilliamCave]

If married in Thailand, both husband and wife must sign.

In terms of who needs to sign:

It does not matter if the property is in one name or both. It does not matter if the property was bought before or after the marriage. Same with bank loans, etc.

The spouse is required to be informed and authorize with signature.

Do not confuse this with 'whose property is it?' OPs question is not about division of assets, only about land title office procedure.

Spouse has to sign... 100%

Thanks for the info ill tell my wife about this ,

The thing bothers me is I didn't want his family coming after my wife later and taking the land back and she louses all her money because it would have been a illegal transaction .

I am also amassed at how often land deals go bad in Thailand because people don't do the research or hire a lands lawyer to handle things.

[jamescollister]

If married in Thailand, both husband and wife must sign.

In terms of who needs to sign:

It does not matter if the property is in one name or both. It does not matter if the property was bought before or after the marriage. Same with bank loans, etc.

The spouse is required to be informed and authorize with signature.

Do not confuse this with 'whose property is it?' OPs question is not about division of assets, only about land title office procedure.

Spouse has to sign... 100%

Not so, land inherited or owned prior to marriage is not classed as communal property under the civil code. Will find it and post. the laws governing it. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

Normally, the landlord/landlady cans sell the land by themselves if there is their only one name into the land property paper, no need to get her husband's signature. the lady cans see it behind her property paper. Even her husband musts sign the document, the lady cans ask his doctor issue the document to confirm his sickness and also the lady should pay the lawyer to write the letter then she cans present those papers to the department of land.

She is the only one on the land papers on the back her husband name is not on the dead so she can sell it you are saying ?

As Jim already said ......... depends on the date she married.

Purchased before married ....... can sell alone (unless wedding gift).

Purchased after marriage ...... can't sell (unless husband signed Sin suan tua declaration)

Inherited .......... can sell alone.

The land office has quite detailed documentation on how the land was acquired, which isn't shown on the Chanote.

PS

If she is getting a bank loan, don't worry bank will check.

Edited February 9, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[WilliamCave]

If married in Thailand, both husband and wife must sign.

In terms of who needs to sign:

It does not matter if the property is in one name or both. It does not matter if the property was bought before or after the marriage. Same with bank loans, etc.

The spouse is required to be informed and authorize with signature.

Do not confuse this with 'whose property is it?' OPs question is not about division of assets, only about land title office procedure.

Spouse has to sign... 100%

Not so, land inherited or owned prior to marriage is not classed as communal property under the civil code. Will find it and post. the laws governing it. Jim

I'll watch for your post thanks

[jamescollister]

Section 1473

Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

Section 1470. Properties of husband and wife except in so far as they are set aside as Sin Suan Tua, are Sin Somros.

Section 1471. Sin Suan Tua consists of:

(1) property belonging to either spouse before marriage

(2) property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse

(3) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift

(4) Khongman.

Section 1472. As regards to Sin Suan Tua, if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Where the Sin Suan Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property or the money, such other property shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1473. Each spouse is manager of his or her Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1474. Sin Somros consists of: (1) property acquired during marriage; (2) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will of gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros; (3) fruits of Sin Suan Tua.

In case of doubt as to whether a property in Sin Somros or not shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

Section 1475. Where any Sin Somros is property of the kind mentioned in Section 456 of this Code or has documentary title, either husband or wife may apply for having his or her name entered in the documents as co-owners.

Section 1476. In managing the Sin Somros in the following cases, the husband and wife have to be joint manager, or one spouse has to obtain consent from the other: (1) Selling, exchanging, sale with the right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgageable movable property. (2) Creating or distinguishing the whole or a part of the servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or charge on immovable property. (3) Letting immovable property for more than three years. (4) Lending money (5) Making a gift unless it is a gift for charitable, social or moral purposes and is auitable to the family condition. (6) Making a compromise. (7) Submitting a dispute to arbitration. (8) Putting up the property as guarantee or security with a competent official or the Court.

The management of the Sin Somros in any case other than those provided in paragraph one can be made only by one spouse without having to obtain consent from the other.

[WilliamCave]

Section 1473

Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

Section 1470. Properties of husband and wife except in so far as they are set aside as Sin Suan Tua, are Sin Somros.

Section 1471. Sin Suan Tua consists of:

(1) property belonging to either spouse before marriage

(2) property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse

(3) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift

(4) Khongman.

Section 1472. As regards to Sin Suan Tua, if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Where the Sin Suan Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property or the money, such other property shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1473. Each spouse is manager of his or her Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1474. Sin Somros consists of: (1) property acquired during marriage; (2) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will of gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros; (3) fruits of Sin Suan Tua.

In case of doubt as to whether a property in Sin Somros or not shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

Section 1475. Where any Sin Somros is property of the kind mentioned in Section 456 of this Code or has documentary title, either husband or wife may apply for having his or her name entered in the documents as co-owners.

Section 1476. In managing the Sin Somros in the following cases, the husband and wife have to be joint manager, or one spouse has to obtain consent from the other: (1) Selling, exchanging, sale with the right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgageable movable property. (2) Creating or distinguishing the whole or a part of the servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or charge on immovable property. (3) Letting immovable property for more than three years. (4) Lending money (5) Making a gift unless it is a gift for charitable, social or moral purposes and is auitable to the family condition. (6) Making a compromise. (7) Submitting a dispute to arbitration. (8) Putting up the property as guarantee or security with a competent official or the Court.

The management of the Sin Somros in any case other than those provided in paragraph one can be made only by one spouse without having to obtain consent from the other.

Normally, the landlord/landlady cans sell the land by themselves if there is their only one name into the land property paper, no need to get her husband's signature. the lady cans see it behind her property paper. Even her husband musts sign the document, the lady cans ask his doctor issue the document to confirm his sickness and also the lady should pay the lawyer to write the letter then she cans present those papers to the department of land.

Good

She is the only one on the land papers on the back her husband name is not on the dead so she can sell it you are saying ?

As Jim already said ......... depends on the date she married.

Purchased before married ....... can sell alone (unless wedding gift).

Purchased after marriage ...... can't sell (unless husband signed Sin suan tua declaration)

Inherited .......... can sell alone.

The land office has quite detailed documentation on how the land was acquired, which isn't shown on the Chanote.

PS

If she is getting a bank loan, don't worry bank will check.

God info now this raises another question how she was able to get a bank loan for 2 million bath with out her husbands concent

As he is mentally ill. So next is call the lands office tomorrow and ask them about. Land. Thanks

[TommoPhysicist]

God info now this raises another question how she was able to get a bank loan for 2 million bath with out her husbands concent

As he is mentally ill. So next is call the lands office tomorrow and ask them about. Land. Thanks

The question that always enters my mind at this point is .........

Why are you as a foreigner (who can't speak Thai), attempting to deal with a Thai land office (who can't speak English), about a subject in which you are not allowed to legally participate.

Your wife is Thai so let her get on with it, really not your business, and you (eventually) will be asked to sign a form saying not your business.

Oh, and good luck at the bank, when your wife attempts to get a home loan and drags you along, and the bank can't speak English, nobody there really understands the concept of pensions, but they still want you to explain that in Thai, and sign a document to say you will guarantee the loan, despite you signing a form at the land office to declare it's nothing to do with you.

Edited February 9, 2013 by TommoPhysicist