Raised The Price, Huh?

[mrkapom]

Hello all

I've been living in Thailand for abotu a year, and learning Thai for 7 months or so, mostly by myself, plus a couple months of formal classes. My Thai is not great by any means, but I can usually make myself understood in everyday situations. However, I've run into one problem repeatedly, have tried several ways of dealing with it without success, and wonder if anyone can help me with it, linguistically or culturally.

Here is the problematic situation: Over the last year, prices on several things I regularly consume have gone up. Any time I've tried to comment on this, saying some version of "oh, the price has gone up, huh?" the Thai person seems to have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about. When I try to explain, it only increases the confusion, and what is intended to be nothing more than a casual, small-talk remark turns into a mess of confusion and awkwardness.

For example, I went to a street cart today, a place I go about 2 or 3 times a month, it always has the same people working, and I always order the same dish there (i.e. they recognize me and know my regular order, although I usually don't talk to them beyond ordering/thanking them). Last week, the price was 40 baht for ข้าวหมกไก่ with ข้าวพิเศษ, today it was 45. I was surprised, having already gotten 40 baht out of my wallet, then looked at the menu and saw that they had raised all the prices by 5 baht. I said:

โอ้45บาท.... แพงขึ้นใช่ไหมครับ

Instead of her confirming that yes, the price has gone up (which is all I want), I got a blank look and she repeated the price (this is usually what happens), explaining that it was more expensive that the posted menu price because it was พิเศษ. I tried again with something like this, speaking more slowly and clearly this time, just in case that was the problem:

ใช่เข้าใจแล้วครับ แต่แพงขึ้นใช่ไหม

As repeating the phrase had (shockingly) gotten me nowhere, I tried to explain:

เมื่อก่อนจานพิเศษราคา40บาทแต่ตอนนี้ราคา45บาทใช่ไหม (a nod from her, then I tried to connect it back to what I was saying in the beginning) ก็แพงขึ้นใช่ไหมครับ

She still looked extremely confused, although I don't know if it was because she didn't understand, or if she was just wondering why I was so intent on making this observation and getting her to affirm it. I asked her if she understood me, and she said she did, but the look on her face and stifled laughter as I walked away suggested that she either didn't understand and/or generally thought I was an odd duck.

So, what gives? Am I really mangling it that badly? Or would it be better to say something like "it was cheaper before" rather than "it's more expensive than before," or maybe asking a question instead of using chai mai, or maybe expressing it in an entirely different way?

Would Thais simply not make this comment, or perhaps just not give the response I'm expecting? (As I said, all I'm expecting them to do it say "chai" or "keun" or something that shows they understood me).

Also, I'm sure there is a more proper phrase, but is my version really unintelligible? My pronunciation is not great, but based on general experience, I don't think it was the problem.

Better phrasing is appreciated, as well as any other suggestions/comments/help with understanding the trouble. I find it very frustrating to be unable to communicate this simple idea, and really don't understand why this comment is always such a train wreck.

Thanks a lot!

PS I just got a friend's opinion, he says ขึ้นราคาอีกแล้วหรอ would be a good way to say it. Yes? No? Other thoughts?

[arthurwait]

I'm no expert but aren't you saying expensive up as opposed to more expensive or price up ?

Try what your friend said raka kirn eeg or ( wan nee) paeng gra. That makes more sense to me when translated to English, I maybe wrong as it may not translate well to Thai.

[mrkapom]

Yes, I am saying expensive up...

My understanding was that this would translate roughly to "more expensive than before." I learned that "keun" (or "long," depending on if it's increasing or decreasing) is used to compare something to itself, as opposed to "gwah", which is used to compare one thing to another. In my mind, I was saying something like, "It's more expensive than it was before, isn't it?"

Please somebody correct me if this is not accurate or I am misunderstanding something.

[patri]

Your wording is absolutely right and understandable, but the common phrase would be "ขึ้นราคา".

In case you wan a confirmation, you can just simply ask "ขึ้นราคาหรือเปล่า" or "ขึ้นราคาใช่ไหม"

[Richard W]

Isn't the issue that the food is less cheap, rather than more expensive?

[Radar501]

I know in the big department stores, when they are having a sale, they put up signs ลดราคา (reduce price), so it makes sense to me that to increase price, ขึ้นราคา would be correct.

IMO, saying ขึ้นราคาใช่ไหม is like saying "You have put up the price, haven't you?" requesting a confirmation of what you already know. Saying ขึ้นราคาหรือ is closer to "Have you put up the price??" indicating a touch of surprise or regret.

[tgeezer]

Just to back up everyone else, you said 'oh the price has gone up, huh.

But you didn't say that in Thai. You said oh, 45 Baht. More expensive is that correct?

แพง still means making a high charge in Thai and it is a judgement. They are surprised because you came regularly, and now you are saying that it was expensive then and now the situation is even worse. What can they say, I expect that they would be gob smacked if they saw you again, but perhaps not; they just don't understand these farang.

The price has increased, so any comment would be to state the obvious, but if you want to be conversational you could say Oh, the price up by 5 baht, huh? never mind still good I am sure. I would say that as a farang not sure about Thais.

I am not good at exclamations I do my own but it would be: โอโห ราคาขึ้น 5 บาทหรือไม่เป็นอารมณ์ครับ คงยังอร่อยกระมัง

I would be trying out อารมณ์ and กระมัง they won't comment on that, probably think that I know what I am saying and they don't, especially if they are Bumans or Low.

Edit: how do you like ราคายังดีอยู่ ? instead of all that BS about taste, this has the advantage of staying on topic.

Edited February 12, 2013 by tgeezer

[Mole]

There really wasn't anything "wrong" grammatically with what you said. I'm pretty sure they understood perfectly what you said. However, the "faux pas" is more to even commenting about things being more expensive. I don't think they really want to hear nor "small talk" about this issue.

If price has gone up, there's really nothing much to say and they were probably not really that interested to talk about it. And especially not a waitress who's just doing their job.

Perhaps if you talked with the owner of the establishment you may get some response, but I'm pretty sure they're really not that interested in some farang บ่น about prices gone up.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Mole

[tgeezer]

There really wasn't anything "wrong" grammatically with what you said. However, the "faux pas" is more to even commenting about things being more expensive. I don't think they really want to hear nor "small talk" about this issue.

If price has gone up, there's really nothing much to say and they were probably not really that interested to talk about it. And especially not a waitress who's just doing their job.

Perhaps if you talked with the owner of the establishment you may get some response, but I'm pretty sure they're really not that interested in some farang บ่น about prices gone up.

So you don't think that แพง means any more in Thai than it has come to mean in English?

When I added Bumans or Low I thought like you, they couldn't care less, but then thought that in a street stall the owner is within hearing usually and it would be more for her benefit.

[cgphuket]

Yes, I am saying expensive up...

My understanding was that this would translate roughly to "more expensive than before." I learned that "keun" (or "long," depending on if it's increasing or decreasing) is used to compare something to itself, as opposed to "gwah", which is used to compare one thing to another. In my mind, I was saying something like, "It's more expensive than it was before, isn't it?"

Please somebody correct me if this is not accurate or I am misunderstanding something.

Try "this expensive more, why" or "this expensive more, yes?" Of course in Thai (I dont write thai words in English as there is no perfect translation).

[tgeezer]

There really wasn't anything "wrong" grammatically with what you said. However, the "faux pas" is more to even commenting about things being more expensive. I don't think they really want to hear nor "small talk" about this issue.

If price has gone up, there's really nothing much to say and they were probably not really that interested to talk about it. And especially not a waitress who's just doing their job.

Perhaps if you talked with the owner of the establishment you may get some response, but I'm pretty sure they're really not that interested in some farang บ่น about prices gone up.

So you don't think that แพง means any more in Thai than it has come to mean in English?

When I added Bumans or Low I thought like you, they couldn't care less, but then thought that in a street stall the owner is within hearing usually and it would be more for her benefit.

Edit: Also farang are not expected to do as Thais do, and if we feel it, we wouldn't be true to ourselves if we didn't say it. Thais get used to this from us, perhaps it is asking too much from a lowly worker at a street stall though. They don't consider that they could ever be on chatting terms with us, we don't see the the gulf between us that they see, but as a regular customer one feels that one should be nice to them. We should perhaps consider the occasional tip, but that might introduce some anxiety among nationals who would then compare badly with us.

[Mole]

As a Thai, I can say that I would not have made any comments about prices going up...

But you farangs may like to express things more directly. But don't be surprised if you get ignored or they pretend to not understand you in order to save face.

Even if the servers were Burmese or Lao, their Thai may not be really good to begin with, so it's no surprise if you get a blank stare.

Also, even if they were Thai and perfectly understood what's being said, a blank stare could also really just mean they really don't wanna comment about it. The owner would probably not really have appreciated if they did anyway.

Edited February 12, 2013 by Mole

[meadish_sweetball]

As a Thai, I can say that I would not have made any comments about prices going up...

I often hear Thais (well, mostly Northern Thais, in case they behave differently for some reason?) complaining about price hikes in my everyday life. My hunch is that whether one would comment or not is more a matter of personality than of culture.

[Mole]

There's a difference complaining about prices going up among oneself and complaining to a shopkeeper.

[meadish_sweetball]

I agree. But what I meant in this case was complaining directly to the shopkeeper.

[rgs2001uk]

There's a difference complaining about prices going up among oneself and complaining to a shopkeeper.

At the local mom n pop store I use here in Bkk, a local was caught shoplifting by the owner, the excuse, if your prices werent so high I wouldnt need to steal.

Brilliant stuff.

[mrkapom]

Wow, thank you everyone for all the responses, I didn't expect nearly so many. It seems to be primarily a cultural issue rather than a problem with my grammar or word choice.

Perhaps if you talked with the owner of the establishment you may get some response, but I'm pretty sure they're really not that interested in some farang บ่น about prices gone up.

But you farangs may like to express things more directly. But don't be surprised if you get ignored or they pretend to not understand you in order to save face.

I guess I still don't understand the full extent of the "face" concept here. I didn't care at all that the price had gone up 5 baht, and didn't mean to sound like I was complaining. It never occurred to me that they might take it as complaining. In my mind it was about as normal a comment as, "pretty hot today, huh?" to which I expect nothing more than a "yup, sure is." It was really just an observation, and I definitely have no plans to talk to the owner about it.

Thanks again!

[GarryP]

Your friend was right. ขึ้นราคาอีกแล้วหรอ would be better.

[realthaideal]

Glad you're listening. And yes, there is a less than subtle distinction in saying that a price has gone up vs saying something is more expensive. As another said, "expensive" is a value judgement and can sound harsh to the Thai ear. You most often hear them saying แพง as they're walking away or talking to a friend. To say it directly someone is pretty strong. I do, however, often mentioning in a passive asking way about "Prices have gone up already, huh ?" When I follow it with something about how food prices everywhere are so expensive now (even in the markets), it takes the pressure off the individual seller and they're quite comfortable talking about the economy, the price of gas, and everything else.

If you don't already throw around เศรษฐกิจ (setthakit/economy), you should. Since the economic downturn it's a word that everyone's ready to add their thoughts about.