Old Lady Came To My Door, What She Asked Sickened Me.

[scorpio]

I feel chills when I read theses stories because I have a daughter and my heart drops the inocense of a child taken.

My wife was in a public bathroom about a month ago and written in Thai on the stall wall was a story.

It read something like this my wife told me.

"" I am 17 years old my mom died recently and I was a virgin. Then my dad took me to the bar with him and he sold me to another man for the night my father told me I owed him for raising me. And she finished with , ,, I wrote this on the wall because I have no one now to talk to .

To tell u about me I work in the oil industry with mostly men a lot of tough guys work hard many hours a day pushing steel pipe, bolt ups hard work I am a tough son of bitch.

But when I read about and hear theses things gets my heart turns to mush brings tears and I think of my kids. So I am not that tough.

In my prayers today

Thanks for listening

nice one william,

[keemapoot]

I live in a village near Korat and there are plenty of kids living with their grandparents as the parents are off working.

Yeah, I've seen some of these young parents who are "off working." They drink, gamble, blow their money on other things and give little, if any, to the grandparents, who are saddled with actually caring for, raising and paying for the unplanned kid.

One kid I know of fathered a child at 16, the mother disappeared, and this kid dumped the baby with grandma. He then went off to "work" and I heard he never gave a cent and never visited the kids. He one day showed up with a shiny new Honda CBR motorcycle which he was showing off. The next time I heard of him he was in prison.

Obviously you have to question the parenting skills of the grandparents to allow that behavior in their son in the first place. There is too much tolerance of irresponsible behavior by many Thai parents.

On the other hand, I'm sure many struggle to earn a living and leaving the kid with grandma is the only way.

[Mrjlh]

What the OP has written often times leads to a more serious issues and we don't always here about. In mid 2011, I was very fortunate to have two Thai Lady friends that helped me when we were out one evening bar hopping in the Patapong (-sp-) area of Bangkok. While passing a bar I noticed a very young looking girl sitting at a table. Something in her face said "help". I mentioned it to my friends and at first they said don't get involved. Not my nature I'm a retired cop. After some discussion they agreed to help me. Luckily for me, one of my friends knew who to call for exploited children. It sure wasn't the local BiB. First, problem was to determine how old this girl was. Second was to see if she was in fact in trouble. So one of my friends hung back out of sight. If we gave her a signal she was to make contact with that agency. (At the moment I can't recall the exact agency name...Human Trafficking and Exploitation..I think. Their phone number is actually posted several places in the area). Anyway my other friend and I went in looking for a "third party" to join us for some fun that night. Of course Mama son wanted us to use a different lady but we stuck fast with the younger girl. Didn't take long to find out the girl was in fact underage and she was being sold for 3000B for the night. We gave my other friend the high sign. She secretly took photos of us in the bar. I excused myself to the men's room where I took photos of the baht bills with my cell phone camera. That done we walked her out, down the soi to a cab and left very quickly. While in the cab I got the call from my other friend to go a location near the National Police Station where we would be met. A really nice Thai Lady and several plain clothed officers met us and simply asked the young girl if she need help or not. She was actually given a choice because of the dangerous nature of the gangs involved. You could tell the girl was really frightened but after some discussion in Thai she finally said OK. She also said her older sister worked at a different bar in the area. Later that night several bars were raided under what was called "general sweep" of the area. Made the papers too. The girl and her sister were taken to a shelter and later released to some responsible relatives. Mama son was busted and currently in jail. Several other young girls were also discovered and freed. Got my 3000B back...surprise me too! It came out that the two sisters were sold to a foreign man by their mother just like the OP stated. But in this case, the foreigner a Frenchman, sold them again. Last I heard he was being sought.

Some people will say just leave it alone but that's not fair for the child caught up in this mess. If asked to do it again I surely would. If I could take the the parties out behind the barn for some street justice I surely would. I'm just glad I saw what I saw when I did. I have seen it before and did not know what I could do about it. I would never do it alone and was glad I had two friends who were not only Thai but decided to help.

[Scully]

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

-Scully-

Just curious.

What you are doing in a rural Isaan village, alone? Without a Thai spouse? If you had one, nobody would come knocking.

The people think you lonely and need a companion.

I moved here wih a long haired type 5 years ago, split up and then returned to Issan after a stint in the UK.

Great people,cheap living, great weather and more women you can shake a shitty stick at. Why would you get married when there are hundreds of 20 plus women wanting a western trial

[Scully]

I believe you can marry a 13 year old with a judge's permission.

Monk's wedding would be against the law.

It's sad but common.

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

Actually, need to be 15 to get an ID card.

I actually thought that until my friends daughter has gone off the rails and he assures me it's 13 so he can find her work. He could be wrong though.

[jamhar]

Thanks for the heads up.

This is information i certainly didnt want to know,

but being relatively new to TL,

Its information i needed to know.

[Payboy]

Actually, need to be 15 to get an ID card.

Changed to 7, a couple of years ago I think.

[doggie888888]

I know of a woman who asked an unmarried and unrelated older man to take her young daughter and "look after her". That woman was a prostitute.

Oh wait, it's not Thailand. It's called Les miserables and these are all French people.

[Semper]

Naturally shocked I told her to leave and did so in a manner that I wasn't happy.

You mean that you didn't ask her if she had something a bit older in stock? That's shocking!

[LburtonL]

Who said anything about sex? Maybe the woman just could not afford to look after the girl. If I was living here full time I would like to take care of a young girl on the verge of puberty. I might be able to guide her in a way that would be beneficial for her in the future.

Can't be serious

Edited February 14, 2013 by LburtonL

[Berkshire]

You gotta love Thai culture!!

Surely you're not ignorant enough to believe that this sort of despicable behavior is a "Thai" thing.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/07/nebraska-mother-gets-more-prison-time-for-prostituting-2-daughters-ages-7-and/?intcmp=obinsite

[TommoPhysicist]

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

Actually, need to be 15 to get an ID card.

Rules were changed last year, over 7 get ID cards now.

Can leave school at 13, can't get job until 15.

(At 13 they work on the farm and for the family until 15)

Edited February 14, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[HeijoshinCool]

This is a disturbing story. I don't know why the chances of this women getting caught out are but I'm sure karma will eventually catch up with her.

Hopefully a karma ghia with a Thai driver.

[rene123]

I feel chills when I read theses stories because I have a daughter and my heart drops the inocense of a child taken.

My wife was in a public bathroom about a month ago and written in Thai on the stall wall was a story.

It read something like this my wife told me.

"" I am 17 years old my mom died recently and I was a virgin. Then my dad took me to the bar with him and he sold me to another man for the night my father told me I owed him for raising me. And she finished with , ,, I wrote this on the wall because I have no one now to talk to .

To tell u about me I work in the oil industry with mostly men a lot of tough guys work hard many hours a day pushing steel pipe, bolt ups hard work I am a tough son of bitch.

But when I read about and hear theses things gets my heart turns to mush brings tears and I think of my kids. So I am not that tough.

In my prayers today

Thanks for listening

That story just made me cry. I think it would make most western adults cry. I can hear the despair in the young woman's writing.

[rene123]

Well done, Mrjlh. Every little bit helps. Unfortunately, we can't nail all the scumbags on earth. I hope the little girls survive to lead a better life. It bothers me when I see the beggers using children and babies as "bait" at night. What chance do those children have of growing up with any choices in life. The answer is NONE.

[SteeleJoe]

Who said anything about sex? Maybe the woman just could not afford to look after the girl. If I was living here full time I would like to take care of a young girl on the verge of puberty. I might be able to guide her in a way that would be beneficial for her in the future.

so you would trust your daughter to go of with a stranger if he never mentioned sex, whats wrong with people here.

No, but I'm not in a desperate situation. Many young women in western countries give up their babies because they can not afford to look after them. It just happens more often in 3rd world countries. I'm not denying the fact that some Asian women sell their daughters into prostitution. From what I've read, that was common in Thailand about 30 years ago, but with the improving economy there are fewer of those brothels in Thailand today. However, it still seems to go on in surrounding countries like Laos and Cambodia. Also what I've read, the sale of young girls for marriage is quite common in India.

And, if you do any research it has been discovered that Joseph bought Mary, the mother of Jesus, when she was only 12 years old. If you believe in the virgin birth then I have a bridge for sale... cheap.

Wow. OK allowing for your errr...interesting theory that maybe she just wanted the guy to buy the child in order to raise her...

Fewer of which brothels today?

What in the world does the allegedly common sale of young girls for marriage in India have to do with this?

And not only do not get the relevance of the Bronze Age fairy tale about Mary, even if it were true so what? Stoning adulterers, slavery and human sacrifice also went on then - should that have bearing on how we judge such things now?

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa ap

[muythai2013]

i dont care who bought mary, so build that bridge.

I was a Buddhist monk, you assume i'm christian yes.

[noob7]

In case, she's really the mother, she will get you a written permission in exchange for the 500k. In there, she agrees, that you are the legal bf of her daughter.

That was even (the letter) enough, in the late 90's, to let the police step aside, if a westener got checked with 14/15/16 years old girl.

Since 2008, the legal age, for having intercourse with a kid is 15. So I think, the letter of permission of the parents will work even for a 12 years old.

If there is no 'force', the police will step aside.

If they wanna get extra money, the mum will take the 500k, and in the evening the police will knock on your door, to get their 500k.

And because the girl isn't a virgin, anymore, you couldn't even proof, that you didn't do something.!

Also, because you aren't Chinese Sex mafia, the daughter could even leave you, the next day. Or would you, like the guy's from the big massage parlors, go after the parents, in case the daughter isn't fulfilling the contract?

Probably not, so....!

no offence but how do you come to know so much about it.

I'm long enough in Thailand have open eyes and ears.

Change you subjects in chatting with young(est) females, and you will get much more information, as usual.

But do you want that?

[krisb]

Well Ive read enough. Sad story.

hope this gets closed soon, its a touchy touchy subject

[rct99q]

Well I am not sure what part of Isan the OP lives in but I too live in rural Northeast (52 months continuous and counting) and have never heard of one story similar to this. My wife and family are well connected in the village and after talking with her about this subject it was made explicitly clear this would not happen near our village.

Police would be called and the Thai person would be traced and the child removed and taken into custody to be relocated with other family members (if possible and not saying they would be any better but there is always a chance). A young girl in the next village to ours was abandoned by her parents and my wife and mother in law took her in for a 4 months until we could track down responsible family members down south. She was obviously shaken by the turn of events but in no way did she feel abandoned.

So for those rene123 bashers......the wording may not have been the best but understand the sentiments of the statement. I too would not turn my back on any person who required assistance.

So my advice would be.....

Call the tourist police, give them a statement as to what happened, describe the two people as best you can, provide dates, times and as much detail as possible. Go on record with these details start getting a history of events in case it happens again or you hear of it happening again you have a police report. If you are too scared to tell them the same story as you have put in TV then I guess that is up to you.

[rct99q]

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

-Scully-

Just curious.

What you are doing in a rural Isaan village, alone? Without a Thai spouse? If you had one, nobody would come knocking.

The people think you lonely and need a companion.

I moved here wih a long haired type 5 years ago, split up and then returned to Issan after a stint in the UK.

Great people,cheap living, great weather and more women you can shake a shitty stick at. Why would you get married when there are hundreds of 20 plus women wanting a western trial

This statement from you just sounds ..... bad. Sorry. But you seem to have the attitude that you can shake a shitty stick at woman, there are lot's of them and you made it painfully obvious by using the "20 plus" you want us to believe you have never had younger. Ever asked one of the hundreds you have shaken your shitty stick at for ID.

Please excuse me as I have to go throw up and take a shower after reading this post.

[ALFREDO]

I believe you can marry a 13 year old with a judge's permission.

Monk's wedding would be against the law.

It's sad but common.

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

Actually, need to be 15 to get an ID card.

Sorry, no that is not right any more.

"Starting from July 10, district offices will also issue national identification cards for children. The move is in response to the 2011 National Identification Card Act, which requires that Thais aged between seven and 70 years carry the cards."

[Morakot]

Sowing the green rice is a Thai tradition. However, she may not have been offering you the child for sex, she may have been offering you the child as a servant/ slave. After all she may have felt that a single male in a house needs a house keeper.

Six years wages up front for a domestic servant in rural Issan.

Edited February 14, 2013 by Morakot

[WilliamCave]

I believe you can marry a 13 year old with a judge's permission.

Monk's wedding would be against the law.

It's sad but common.

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

Actually, need to be 15 to get an ID card.

My son is 7 years old and has his Thai ID card and bank account

[FritsSikkink]

In case, she's really the mother, she will get you a written permission in exchange for the 500k. In there, she agrees, that you are the legal bf of her daughter.

That was even (the letter) enough, in the late 90's, to let the police step aside, if a westener got checked with 14/15/16 years old girl.

Since 2008, the legal age, for having intercourse with a kid is 15. So I think, the letter of permission of the parents will work even for a 12 years old.

If there is no 'force', the police will step aside.

If they wanna get extra money, the mum will take the 500k, and in the evening the police will knock on your door, to get their 500k.

And because the girl isn't a virgin, anymore, you couldn't even proof, that you didn't do something.!

Also, because you aren't Chinese Sex mafia, the daughter could even leave you, the next day. Or would you, like the guy's from the big massage parlors, go after the parents, in case the daughter isn't fulfilling the contract?

Probably not, so....!

no offence but how do you come to know so much about it.

I'm long enough in Thailand have open eyes and ears.

Change you subjects in chatting with young(est) females, and you will get much more information, as usual.

But do you want that?

Why did you do that?

[CHRISTIANa9]

Six year wages for B500,000. I don't think so.

[ALFREDO]

Didn't take long to find out the girl was in fact underage

How old-young was she? A month younger, than tolerated by the authorities, or some years?

As far as I read, about helping out, slightly younger girls or just young girls to get away from that RED lights, most come back.

Driven from the wish to earn money fast, mainly or pushed, from parents, relatives, BF, ect.

My long time (a decade!) GF, deep in debt from gaming and also confronted with my own money shortage problems,

which handicaps her continuously playing "HIGH LOW" dice game, has no time to wait, if I sort out my financial shortcomings.

Living with tight money and no gaming and lottery, is a NO! For her.

Her only idea, back to the RED lights to solve that quickly for some time.

I took her out from the Bar scene, when she was just 20 and 2-3 month there in Soi Bangla.

As its always said - "Can take her out of the BAR, but the BAR not out of her!"

Edited February 14, 2013 by ALFREDO

[frankold]

Sowing the green rice is a Thai tradition. However, she may not have been offering you the child for sex, she may have been offering you the child as a servant/ slave. After all she may have felt that a single male in a house needs a house keeper.

By the sound of it she didn't care what the child was used for provided the money was forthcoming.

[ALFREDO]

So it's a case of completing miminal schooling recieving your Thai ID card and your good to go, very sad.

-Scully-

Just curious.

What you are doing in a rural Isaan village, alone? Without a Thai spouse? If you had one, nobody would come knocking.

The people think you lonely and need a companion.

I moved here wih a long haired type 5 years ago, split up and then returned to Issan after a stint in the UK.

Great people,cheap living, great weather and more women you can shake a shitty stick at. Why would you get married when there are hundreds of 20 plus women wanting a western trial

So, the "Old woman" had the right idea, in the bigger picture, only a to young girl available.

How did you know she was 12? Old Ladies talk, ID card, your estimate?

The surrounding willows there, now not been grazed already?

Edited February 14, 2013 by ALFREDO

[hopdafru]

Well I am not sure what part of Isan the OP lives in but I too live in rural Northeast (52 months continuous and counting) and have never heard of one story similar to this. My wife and family are well connected in the village and after talking with her about this subject it was made explicitly clear this would not happen near our village.

Police would be called and the Thai person would be traced and the child removed and taken into custody to be relocated with other family members (if possible and not saying they would be any better but there is always a chance). A young girl in the next village to ours was abandoned by her parents and my wife and mother in law took her in for a 4 months until we could track down responsible family members down south. She was obviously shaken by the turn of events but in no way did she feel abandoned.

So for those rene123 bashers......the wording may not have been the best but understand the sentiments of the statement. I too would not turn my back on any person who required assistance.

So my advice would be.....

Call the tourist police, give them a statement as to what happened, describe the two people as best you can, provide dates, times and as much detail as possible. Go on record with these details start getting a history of events in case it happens again or you hear of it happening again you have a police report. If you are too scared to tell them the same story as you have put in TV then I guess that is up to you.

There are plenty of places providing underage girls from across the border in the northeast... won't detail here... not a single girl over 18, dozens well under, with no advertizing/lights and armed guys sitting outside. Easy to find out about them and short time starts at 200thb. (for those wondering it's for local consumption, not falang), local law enforcement gets freebies.

Saw it first hand at several occasions while working for NGO / CSEC.

You need joint action from specialized teams/authorities in both countries (ie thailand and country of origin of the girls) for anything to happen. Calling locally won't do anything, calling abroad could initiate action. Very dangerous though...

I'm curious to hear what your wife / family would say about this, and if you would call the (local) police to make a report.

Just sayin' as from your post I concluded (wrongly perhaps?) that 52 months - or more - in Issaan doesn't give access to this kind of stuff unless one insistently scratches the surface. no pun intended.

Also, given the increasing divide between rich and poor, access to credit etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of this happening in the region, including 'offering' 12 year old brides/girls to more well off foreigners, be they falang or Asian.

Actually, as I write this, I can also see how - in some cases - a child would be perceived better off with a falang (mixed) family especially given for example the recent story of the 12 yo birman girl burned and cut repeatedly over 5 years by a couple in a neighboring country. (many, many more such similar stories I am sad to say)

Perhaps something should be done to make it not too difficult to adopt these kids (it's easier to make a positive difference in their life when they are younger), there are many good people out there who can't have kids of their own and face very complex paperwork / procedures to do so; too much paranoia perhaps (I know a falang/lao couple who adopted 3 kids without parents from the mountains although local adoption is illegal here in Laos - kudos to them and the local authorities who made it really easy on the basis of common sense)

Also not every parent / grandmother / family member (in the OP's type of situation) is out there directly gambling/drinking their money away, some are simply in such difficult situations for us to even conceive that they are desperate to find a way for a better future for these kids. I don't know of any parent (except maybe some extremely rare exceptions), who would go on and simply sell off their kids no questions asked and not hoping for a better future.

touchy touchy subject indeed - sorry for the long post.

Edited February 14, 2013 by hopdafru