Asiaphile Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 This is a good time to avoid Indonesia anyway, for your own safety. They don't want foreigners anymore? The government has decided to discourage tourism and gouge anyone who comes to Indonesia? Don't reward that kind of attitude! Go to Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand - ANYWHERE but Indonesia, until they change their attitude and policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Eye_Of_Sauron Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I endorse this approach. However, I also sold an article for THB6000 that comments on the new visa fees, so I guess I am profiting from others misery. Still, I have lost more money than I care to mention by trusting Indonesians, so never mind. Believe me, if you ever feel grouchy about life and unfairness in Bangkok - its infinitely better than Jakarta. Midnight closing would be the least of your worries there ! (....especially if being beaten after closing time by Ramadhan zealots) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pink Mist Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 you've got my support am never gonna go to indonesia, will go to LOS instead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 This is a good time to avoid Indonesia anyway, for your own safety. They don't want foreigners anymore? The government has decided to discourage tourism and gouge anyone who comes to Indonesia? Don't reward that kind of attitude! Go to Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand - ANYWHERE but Indonesia, until they change their attitude and policy. Why such outrage? Check how much an Indonesian - or a Thai or almost any other Asian citizen - has to pay for a U.S. or U.K. Visa! And THAT fee is non-refundable even if the Visa is refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 After 5 years Indonesia , I will leave for retirement in Thailand by the end of this year. I am almost sure that I will NEVER go back anymore. These might be personal reasons and are subjective. To advise completely negative is one step too far. There are beautiful spots for visiting and sporting.To deal with the population is a matter of personal attitude. When I read some ( many) of the comments in Thai Forum about Thai,I almost would not retire there ,if I would not known better! It is a Kek country so one should know what to expect concerning certain issues. However, 6 years is enough as stated above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 This is a good time to avoid Indonesia anyway, for your own safety. They don't want foreigners anymore? The government has decided to discourage tourism and gouge anyone who comes to Indonesia? Don't reward that kind of attitude! Go to Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand - ANYWHERE but Indonesia, until they change their attitude and policy. Why such outrage? Check how much an Indonesian - or a Thai or almost any other Asian citizen - has to pay for a U.S. or U.K. Visa! And THAT fee is non-refundable even if the Visa is refused. and they are regularly refused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiaphile Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 This is a good time to avoid Indonesia anyway, for your own safety. They don't want foreigners anymore? The government has decided to discourage tourism and gouge anyone who comes to Indonesia? Don't reward that kind of attitude! Go to Malaysia, Philippines, Singapore, Thailand - ANYWHERE but Indonesia, until they change their attitude and policy. Why such outrage? Check how much an Indonesian - or a Thai or almost any other Asian citizen - has to pay for a U.S. or U.K. Visa! And THAT fee is non-refundable even if the Visa is refused. and they are regularly refused. Why such outrage? OK, this is a fair question. Many countries charge for visas or entry stamps, so why not Indonesia? I guess my feeling of outrage is not so much due to the visa policy itself, as to what I think it represents. I once visited Indonesia, back in 1991, spending a good 3 weeks in Bali, Yogja and Jakarta. I had a great time back then - no complaints at all, except for the inexplicably hateful attitude the immigration official displayed at Bali airport. Keep in mind that I'm a clean-cut type, in case you were guessing that I looked like some kind of hippie drug-tourist. I don't know - maybe it was because of my US passport or something. But what has happened in the last 6 years or so, since the economic crisis and the ousting of Suharto? It seems the Islamists have taken over, and Sukarnoputri is just a powerless figurehead president. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't the country been going to ###### ever since? Haven't people become more and more Islamist, anti-foreign, anti-Chinese, anti-Christian, anti-everything-and-everybody-Western? Not that I'm Christian, OK - I'm not. I'm atheist, but I don't usually mention it. But when I read about Indonesian Christians being hacked to death with machetes, or Chinese-Indonesians being raped in the streets, or Westerners being blown to bits in discos and hotels...well, I feel outraged. And though not quite as extreme, you should read about the experiences many people have these days travelling in Indonesia, especially in Sumatra. You can find all kinds of horror stories on LonelyPlanet.com. The level of hatred is utterly astounding. So this is what I'm outraged against. I'd like to go back to the Indonesia I knew and enjoyed back in 1991, but I know that place is gone. I think the government is controlled (or at least heavily influenced) by the Islamists. How else to explain their seeming contempt for tourists and other foreigners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 So, three weeks in 1991 makes you the expert In Sumatra there is a civil war going on.The regular army fights against "islam " seperatists.Negative travel advise from all embassies world wide. Don't glorify the Suharto period ( he embazzled USD 16 Bilj. for him and his family and crownies).Trying to change all that is a gigantic task and almost impossible, to my humble opinion. Everywhere in the world nations are struggling. Tourist abduction in the Philipines and South America f.e. My point is;If one goes to a third world country either for work or as a tourist,don't expect everything to be (almost) the same as at home. I agree that there is a growing support for Islam. I n the begin 80's the Saoudies pumped milons of dollars into the country,only for Islamitic schools with fundamental teaching. This is the result! However not everybody is as fanatic as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiaphile Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 So, three weeks in 1991 makes you the expert In Sumatra there is a civil war going on.The regular army fights against "islam " seperatists.Negative travel advise from all embassies world wide. Don't glorify the Suharto period ( he embazzled USD 16 Bilj. for him and his family and crownies).Trying to change all that is a gigantic task and almost impossible, to my humble opinion. Everywhere in the world nations are struggling. Tourist abduction in the Philipines and South America f.e. My point is;If one goes to a third world country either for work or as a tourist,don't expect everything to be (almost) the same as at home. I agree that there is a growing support for Islam. I n the begin 80's the Saoudies pumped milons of dollars into the country,only for Islamitic schools with fundamental teaching. This is the result! However not everybody is as fanatic as you think. Hey, I never claimed to be any kind of expert! I do know about the civil war in Aceh - but these horror stories were from elsewhere in Sumatra. I never read about anyone who travelled to Aceh, at least not on lonelyplanet.com I wasn't glorifying Suharto - only saying that that era was infinitely better than the current one. So what if he stole billions - the country was booming and everyone was becoming better off, except maybe the Islamists, who hate progress and happiness and liberated women. How many billions are the Islamist thugs in the current government embezzeling? I guess we'll only know after they're turned out of power - many decades from now? Yep, it's the Saudis. You betcha. I hate those people. Because they hate everyone else, and are the primary cause of all the terrorism we see in the world today, from the Balkans to Israel to Chechnya to Iraq, Afghanistan, Thailand, Philippines and Indonesia. Not to mention 9/11. God I hate the Saudis. Finally, I never said "everybody in Indonesia is a fanatic", and I find it annoying when people have to reply like that. Other than that, cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 I was in 1972 in Pattaya,I wished it was still like that! No reaction on my line ; visiting a third world country ...... For all the other writing;may be we differ in opinion.Well let it be like that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiaphile Posted February 12, 2004 Author Share Posted February 12, 2004 Yeah, we can just leave it at that. By the way, how WAS Pattaya in '72? I'd love to hear about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 Yeah, we can just leave it at that. By the way, how WAS Pattaya in '72? I'd love to hear about it. That might have been around the time Dutch married his Thai wife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dutch Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 No dr.PP I met her in November 76 on an airplane and married in August 77. Pattaya was a fishers village! In principal I don't visit Pattaya as I don't want to be looked at as a sextourist. Later on I visited with family Bang Saen, north of Pattaya. I was the only farang around.For my style of live,perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 12, 2004 Share Posted February 12, 2004 No dr.PP I met her in November 76 on an airplane and married in August 77. Pattaya was a fishers village! In principal I don't visit Pattaya as I don't want to be looked at as a sextourist. Later on I visited with family Bang Saen, north of Pattaya. I was the only farang around.For my style of live,perfect. Ahhhh the old Pattaya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiaphile Posted February 13, 2004 Author Share Posted February 13, 2004 So Dutch, would you say that Laos or Cambodia today remind you of Thailand 30 years ago? Or is there some place in Thailand that reminds you of the old Pattaya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 No dr.PP I met her in November 76 on an airplane and married in August 77. Pattaya was a fishers village! In principal I don't visit Pattaya as I don't want to be looked at as a sextourist. Later on I visited with family Bang Saen, north of Pattaya. I was the only farang around.For my style of live,perfect. Ahhhh the old Pattaya Interesting to consider how little attitudes change here - or how solutions to problems are arrived at. About 30 years ago the Pattaya Authorities cut down a magnificent old tree in the middle of Beach Road - just outside the (then) Dolf Ricks' restaurant - because a few people were driving into it. Today they propose a curfew for all under 18's because some of them misbehave. TIT - always choose the easy way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Eye_Of_Sauron Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 This is a perfect example of a topic thats gone completely off-topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_Pat_Pong Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 This is a perfect example of a topic thats gone completely off-topic. I agree....and it is going nowhere....bye bye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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