Social Order' Takes The Life Out Of Night Life

[britmaveric]

I agree - there are heaps of places open for those who know where to go. Fun can be had, just have to look for it a bit harder.

Honestly I think in the long run this is only temporary - give it a few years and I wager we'll see later closing times again.

[wombat]

Obviously over 20, I'm excluded from the ID formalities. "Have fun Auntie," one of the bouncers mutters in Thai as he waves me through the barricade

Well, maybe 'Auntie' belongs in bed after 1am anyhow?

i got as far as this backhander (silly white whale) about manners and didnt read anymore.

[englishoak]

Great article ............. Spot on too

I came to Thailand in 2000 and lived in BKK for 4 years. It has gone from being a fantastic 24 hr city to a very average city that grinds to a halt after about 2m.

When I arrived there was always soemwhere to go..... drink........... eat ........... and party..... You could pretty much go 24hr anywhere in Bkk and it would be easy to find somewhere new to try. There was so much you found on the nights out...... people you met and interesting bars.... food stalls ........stalls..... This was not just in the center either, all around the suburbs there were things to do ... places to be ..... people to meet..It was in short one of the best cities in the world ......... for the ultimate thai word SANOOK !

During the next 4 years i watched the clubs close down .... stalls shut ...... and eateries close early....

The people I know ..... the small stall holders ...... restauant owners ..... bars ......... clubs .... are all struggling .......

The stall holders still pay for their spaces, but now they have to cut their trading time down to mabe 2- 4 hours in some places...... they have a shorter time to sell, that means less money.

The places to eat close earlier now as there is no custom after a certain time. The hungry steady flow of custom is no longer there from both Thai and farang.......

A night out suddenly becomes a few hours out ........ is it worth going out if you get home at 8pm? It' s not just farang teachers but also the working Thai's....

the suberbs have become sleeepy again after a certain time ..... No more popping in on Noi and her noodle store at the end of the soi at 4 am she's long in bed and up early doing a morning cleaning job to make ends meet. She's a lot more tired now and dos'nt get much satisfaction having to work 2 jobs.....

Ute and friends no longer sell at khaosarn road till the early hours and the 4 hrs they can sell for from 8-12pm are not worth the money they pay....... they now have to split thier time running about 4 separate stalls in different locals to earn the same .... they don't see each other much these days and it's not sanook anymore.....

Noom no longer has a full book ferrying around the tourists and taking care of them for a long night out in bkk.... Sure he gets by but the regular customers are no longer coming to bkk all the time. They are trying new palces..... they are bored with the RCA.. Patpong scene, there was always new places to go ..... not any more ....

Pui's wife now goes to work to help the family ..... Before he would happiily drive around all night in his taxi and making a passable wage ...... Now he sits in traffic with all the other desparate taxi drivers trying to make enough for the rent on his taxi and hoping to get a few 100 bht for his family....

Mus Is doing ok, her 3 falang bf are still sending her money but she's considering trying pattaya as " the farang don't stay in bkk as much as before"

Even the taxi bikes in my soi are down to mabe 2 after 2am ...... trying to get a ride down my soi sometimes became difficult towards the end of my time. I even had to walk

The meetings of friends for a chat and some food in the local food/bar during the early hours no longer is a part of the local scene........

A few friends of mine can over in 2000 ....... WOW was the reaction, the Thai's realy know how to have a good time............ Some different friends came over in 2004..... Wow was the reaction whats with the curfew after 12pm? ... thought this was the city that never sleeps....

I popped back to bkk last in 2005 ...... It is quite simply a city that is losing it's soul ...... Sure you can still go out till all hours .......... but only to certain areas .... and you've got to be in the know...

It's becoming sanitised Some may argue this is progress ...... this is more like giving Thailand a labotomy, it's is losing a fundemental part of it's personality.....

Real people, real stories ........... It's hurting the normal people ...... No question.......

I'm now in my own country saving like mad to retire to Thailand ASAP. I hope that by that time the country will have come to it's senses. I get the feeling it'll not be until a while after boxhead has finally moved on...... 2010?

[sabaijai]

One previous entertainment act still in effect is that in cities with a substantial foreign tourist presence, bars and discos can legally stay open till 2am. The list includes Bangkok, Pattaya, Phuket, Samui and Chiang Mai. Only in Pattaya is the law officially recognized (though the practice in Pattaya now seems to be to let almost anywhere in S Pattaya stay open till 4am, no?). And on Samui and Pha-Ngan the early closings aren't enforced all that much. Of course the article was about BKK so this isn't relevant.

Can only speak of Pattaya, as I run a bar here, but the word of a 2am closure has not come to the authorities ears. Officially it is 1 am in Pattaya. There are rumors that Walking Street area gets an official 3am, but so far only rumors.

Fact is that practically all bars open longer, 2, 3, 4am or all night. Always with the help of a friendly guy in brown, and by dimming lights low, or turning the music down, or just hoping that the police guy coming up the street is from Pattaya, not from Chonburi or Bangkok.

For the unsuspicious tourist this all looks a bit weird, to say the least. Anyway, I'm off to Sinapore to test the waters soon!

Sunny

Thanks for clarifying the situation in Pattaya. On the books Pattaya comes under the offical 2am closing time. That law is ignored in Chiang Mai as well, 1am being the time the police try to enforce if they don't get their 1000B per each add'l half hour payment.

Great article ............. Spot on too

I came to Thailand in 2000 and lived in BKK for 4 years. It has gone from being a fantastic 24 hr city to a very average city that grinds to a halt after about 2m.

When I arrived there was always soemwhere to go..... drink........... eat ........... and party..... You could pretty much go 24hr anywhere in Bkk and it would be easy to find somewhere new to try. There was so much you found on the nights out...... people you met and interesting bars.... food stalls ........stalls..... This was not just in the center either, all around the suburbs there were things to do ... places to be ..... people to meet..It was in short one of the best cities in the world ......... for the ultimate thai word SANOOK !

During the next 4 years i watched the clubs close down .... stalls shut ...... and eateries close early....

The people I know ..... the small stall holders ...... restauant owners ..... bars ......... clubs .... are all struggling .......

The stall holders still pay for their spaces, but now they have to cut their trading time down to mabe 2- 4 hours in some places...... they have a shorter time to sell, that means less money.

The places to eat close earlier now as there is no custom after a certain time. The hungry steady flow of custom is no longer there from both Thai and farang.......

A night out suddenly becomes a few hours out ........ is it worth going out if you get home at 8pm? It' s not just farang teachers but also the working Thai's....

the suberbs have become sleeepy again after a certain time ..... No more popping in on Noi and her noodle store at the end of the soi at 4 am she's long in bed and up early doing a morning cleaning job to make ends meet. She's a lot more tired now and dos'nt get much satisfaction having to work 2 jobs.....

Ute and friends no longer sell at khaosarn road till the early hours and the 4 hrs they can sell for from 8-12pm are not worth the money they pay....... they now have to split thier time running about 4 separate stalls in different locals to earn the same .... they don't see each other much these days and it's not sanook anymore.....

Noom no longer has a full book ferrying around the tourists and taking care of them for a long night out in bkk.... Sure he gets by but the regular customers are no longer coming to bkk all the time. They are trying new palces..... they are bored with the RCA.. Patpong scene, there was always new places to go ..... not any more ....

Pui's wife now goes to work to help the family ..... Before he would happiily drive around all night in his taxi and making a passable wage ...... Now he sits in traffic with all the other desparate taxi drivers trying to make enough for the rent on his taxi and hoping to get a few 100 bht for his family....

Mus Is doing ok, her 3 falang bf are still sending her money but she's considering trying pattaya as " the farang don't stay in bkk as much as before"

Even the taxi bikes in my soi are down to mabe 2 after 2am ...... trying to get a ride down my soi sometimes became difficult towards the end of my time. I even had to walk

The meetings of friends for a chat and some food in the local food/bar during the early hours no longer is a part of the local scene........

A few friends of mine can over in 2000 ....... WOW was the reaction, the Thai's realy know how to have a good time............ Some different friends came over in 2004..... Wow was the reaction whats with the curfew after 12pm? ... thought this was the city that never sleeps....

I popped back to bkk last in 2005 ...... It is quite simply a city that is losing it's soul ...... Sure you can still go out till all hours .......... but only to certain areas .... and you've got to be in the know...

It's becoming sanitised Some may argue this is progress ...... this is more like giving Thailand a labotomy, it's is losing a fundemental part of it's personality.....

Real people, real stories ........... It's hurting the normal people ...... No question.......

I'm now in my own country saving like mad to retire to Thailand ASAP. I hope that by that time the country will have come to it's senses. I get the feeling it'll not be until a while after boxhead has finally moved on...... 2010?

NGOs estimate around 100,000 jobs were lost as the new puritan order took hold.

[Crash999]

Well one thing for sure.......Thailand is losing mass tourist dollars to Cities like Shanghai where the club scene is booming!

I lived in Thailand most recently from 2003-2005 and now I live in China. I really really DO NOT LIKE China :-) Thai culture and life is so much better...for me :-) However the one thing I really enjoy is staying up till 5am dancing and partying with my friends about 1 time a month. 2am is when I start to get warmed up!

I also moved to Shanghai from Thailand. Fortunately I managed to escape from there recently. Tourists flooding to Shanghai because of the club scene there? C'mon now!

The popular argument that 'Thailand is losing X tourist dollars to Y because of early closings' is weak at best. The obviously false assumption is that there were a large amount of people who traveled to Thailand whose late-night clubbing activities were so important that they now no longer go there. If this were such a huge impact on tourism itself then we'd have seen it already.

Let's remember what spurred the social order crusade. Rewind to circa 1999 and RCA was full of 'dek tiow' as young as 13 or 14. Yaa baa (amphetamines) was a major problem in schools, drunk driving was ignored, clubs and bars sprang up in quiet suburban streets.

Purachai's crusade was a popular one among parents (who by no coincidence, can vote)- get the kids back in schools, off the drugs, and put the nightlife scene under control.

The lingering effects of the social crusade are age checks, 1am closings, and drug testing. The farang bars suffer because unlike the popular Thai spots where people will arrive at 8pm to get a seat, farang tend to head out later and naturally in far fewer numbers. Remember the Thai bars also close down at 1am or so but if you look at Thonglor you'll see that the scene there isn't suffering at all- RCA has sprung back to life as well.

The farang bars are also suffering due to corruption- as they're relatively high profile spots, there's a disproportionate amount of drug raids at the farang bars relative to elsewhere. Nothing like standing in line at 3am waiting to take a piss test to disuade one from making a return visit.

If I were granted omnipotent powers, I'd only make a minor change- allow closings at 4am on Friday and Saturday night. For the rest of us working stiffs, parents, and families on holiday the 1am closing rule during the week is fine. Oh, and tell the boys in brown to lay off the drug raids.

Edited March 4, 2006 by Crash999

[Sunny Valentine]

Quote:

The popular argument that 'Thailand is losing X tourist dollars to Y because of early closings' is weak at best. The obviously false assumption is that there were a large amount of people who traveled to Thailand whose late-night clubbing activities were so important that they now no longer go there. If this were such a huge impact on tourism itself then we'd have seen it already.

(endquote, sorry the Javascript gone made now again ...)

Look at the figures, please! While the tourist figures eem to still go up, you might find that it mostly asian tourists that are coming in bigger numbers, while westerners are on the decline.

No problem with this, but when you look at the spending habits, it paints a totally different picture. Lots of Asians come on prepaid group tours. They more often than not don't even have Thai Baht in their pocket to spend. My wife runs a beer bar in Pattaya next to one of those boxing rings. This bar is ringside so it gets lots of Tiawanese and Korean customers in groups. They come in a flock of 10 or 20 people, everyone gets a Singha/Heineken/Cola (bill to be paid by the tour guide, who also gets some kind of kickback for patronising this bar ...), and they watch the crap boxing, some guests engage in playing bar games with the girls. Quite often they hand out some individual tips: ALWAYS in Korean Won or Dollars, sometimes we get Chinese, Taiwanese or Japanese Money, but NEVER EVER a girl told me she got 20 or whatever amount in BAHT!

Quote:

Let's remember what spurred the social order crusade. Rewind to circa 1999 and RCA was full of 'dek tiow' as young as 13 or 14. Yaa baa (amphetamines) was a major problem in schools, drunk driving was ignored, clubs and bars sprang up in quiet suburban streets.

Purachai's crusade was a popular one among parents (who by no coincidence, can vote)- get the kids back in schools, off the drugs, and put the nightlife scene under control.

(Endquote)

True, but they clearly did not understand the difference between controlling the nightlife and killing it. This is a very sensitive area, make too many mistakes and the patient is in Coma, like today.

Quote:

The lingering effects of the social crusade are age checks, 1am closings, and drug testing. The farang bars suffer because unlike the popular Thai spots where people will arrive at 8pm to get a seat, farang tend to head out later and naturally in far fewer numbers. Remember the Thai bars also close down at 1am or so but if you look at Thonglor you'll see that the scene there isn't suffering at all- RCA has sprung back to life as well.

(Endquote)

Well, it has nowhere in the world proven successful in the long run that don't listening to the tourist's wishes can be successful. In fact, while I see a serious decline in western family as well as recreational tourist numbers, the sex tourists are most likely those that can adopt to the new scenario easily......

One more thing: Thai bars (in more remote areas at least) never close because of rules or regulations. I just remember last Year when I went to Udon Thani during the Elections in February, we could not get a glass of wine at farang bars or restaurants in town, but all Mekhong shacks at my wife's village 10 Kilometer away were doing a roaring trade with the locals as well as police men drinking away till the wee hours ....

Quote:

The farang bars are also suffering due to corruption- as they're relatively high profile spots, there's a disproportionate amount of drug raids at the farang bars relative to elsewhere. Nothing like standing in line at 3am waiting to take a piss test to disuade one from making a return visit.

(endquote)

True. Fact is also, they never seem to find anything. So why are they keeping up with this bullshit? They probably want the tourists out of Thailand ......

Quote:

If I were granted omnipotent powers, I'd only make a minor change- allow closings at 4am on Friday and Saturday night. For the rest of us working stiffs, parents, and families on holiday the 1am closing rule during the week is fine. Oh, and tell the boys in brown to lay off the drug raids.

(Endquote)

Might be fine for you. Professional Sextourists often mention they would prefer the bars to close 10 or 11 pm, as they would not have to pay the barfine. Others might like the extra hour more, or two or.

Why not let the market decide?

Sunny

[JXXXL]

One group that hasn't been focused on are the Asia expats living around the region. I lived in Singapore for four years and it would be common for groups of expats to go to Bangkok for a weekend of partying and golf. We would often do this 1-2 times per month, stay in a five star hotel and spend 10-20K each per day on golf and sanuk.

These expat groups would come from Singapore, HK and Japan mostly, and would spend BIG money compared to the family tourists and backpackers. Lets not forget the gay crown who love to party in nice clubs, they are mostly affluent and BIG spenders as well.

I can tell you that most of my expat friends are staying in Singapore or doing to PI or Jakarta for sanuk. From what I see, these policies play right into promoting low-end sex tourists who love to drink and patronize the hookers out on the street. This is also the group who like to hang out at darkened beer bars or after hour shop houses. Is this what Thailand wants to become? Thailand is becoming MUCH more of a down market destination compared to other cities in the region. Thailand is driving away the affulent single tourists and replacing them with cheap skate package and sex tourists.

Another great example of Thai bumbling.

Edited March 4, 2006 by JXXXL

[Crash999]

Look at the figures, please! While the tourist figures eem to still go up, you might find that it mostly asian tourists that are coming in bigger numbers, while westerners are on the decline. No problem with this, but when you look at the spending habits, it paints a totally different picture. Lots of Asians come on prepaid group tours. They more often than not don't even have Thai Baht in their pocket to spend. My wife runs a beer bar in Pattaya next to one of those boxing rings.

Yes let's look at the figures from the TAT:

- Tourism 2000-2004 up 23%, average expenditure per tourist per day up 7%

- Tourists from East Asia up 22% (Korea up 103%, China up 11%)

- Tourists from Europe up 21% (UK up 32%, Russia up 140%)

- Tourists from Americas up 18% (US up 17%)

- Tourists from South Asia up 38% (India up 48%)

- Tourists from Oceana up 23% (Australia up 22%)

- Tourists from Middle East up 45%

- Tourists from Africa up 3%

It's clear that tourism is up in a big way. The 2005 numbers are even better, though it's not broken down yet by nationality. What is clear is the big increase in tourists from places like Russia, India, and Korea- whereas their numbers still are much less than the tourists coming from Europe, the difference can easily be seen in places like Pattaya.

Well, it has nowhere in the world proven successful in the long run that don't listening to the tourist's wishes can be successful. In fact, while I see a serious decline in western family as well as recreational tourist numbers, the sex tourists are most likely those that can adopt to the new scenario easily......

The evidence doesn't support your thinking. The amount of tourists is up, the hotel industry is thriving, real estate in places like Samui, Phuket, and even Pattaya is hot, restaurants (not late-night gwei-tiao stalls) are doing well, and so on. Certainly I don't know of any families on holiday who complain about 1am closing times in bars and clubs.

Fact is early closings hasn't affected tourism much if at all. The biggest affect is the loss of drink revenue to bars and clubs and the closing of primarily farang-populated bars.

Now I'm not saying I like the idea of 1am closings, but one has to be realistic in terms of what the ramifications are.

[sconway1]

Awesome article... I've travelled to BKK for the last 5 years for business and have witnessed the decline first hand. However there is one experience I'd like to share that completely negates your 'recent investment' comment.

On my last trip (Dec thru mid Feb)I was invited by some friends to what they said was a new 'late night' spot open in Siam Square... Now hearing this immediately got my attention and curiousity stirred... Having been in Siam Square regularly for the daytime shopping and the limited (but clearly defined) night life (CM2, Hard Rock) I was certain if it wasn't one of the 2 obvious venues it was going to be some hidden dive, full of smoke, more people then recommended and me looking for the nearest fire exit for the 'just in case'. The first question I asked was 'is it open past 2am' and I was amazed to by the resounding 'YES' that was replied... Which was followed by 'great music, a kick ass place, amazing drinks and a great great crowd'! Now mind you, this was coming from a thai person (no pun intended). Well, to my suprise we roll up to a place in the center of Siam Square, directly across from Novotel in the open... The place was everthing, I mean EVERYTHING my friend said and more... This was one of the sexiest, cleanest, most fun place I had been to in years... In Thailand or any other place for that matter. Now I've frequented Q-Bar, Bed, Sin, Mystique (when it lived) and several spots in BKK (that don't really deserve an honorable mention) but all of the nights at these places summed up did not compare to the night(s) I had in this place! And get this, the bar staff/management/owners from Q-Bar, Bed, Funky Dojo (patpong) and Mystique were all there... All of them! I spotted several groups of the 'BKK club owners guild' (for lack of a better name) everynight I was there and I was there at least 15 times... My friends couldn't keep out of this place... Two floors, with a glass floor dance floor on the second level so you can see ppl dancing upstairs and down, VIP sections, reasonable drink prices, beautiful decor, that was elegant but not opulent and 1 of the best sound systems I've heard in a midsize club in BKK. Everynight I was there it was full (350+) of gorgeous ppl, both foreign and domestic...

I left BKK in late January and heard that the brown-suits had been visiting my new party-home and giving grief. No pissing in a cup or anything like that but making them close earlier (3:15-4am)... I am looking forward to coming back to BKK and seeing if this place is still online, for if it is I am a sworn patron...

Last I heard they opened a restaurant, were moving the party to earlier during the day, something about an afterwork soiree starting at 5 or 6pm daily... I think that is a great idea! Finish work, eat, party and be home before 10pm....

If anyone has any news on the this place (It was called Red something RedZone I think) please fill my void...

Thanx

[tomchaam]

Similar article appeared recently in New York Times...

[Sunny Valentine]

You're looking into a 2000 to 2004 statistic. As the big cutback on tourist nightlife happened in 2004, these figures are worthless. I have seen (sorry, can't provide details now) some regional statistics from 2004 to 2005 that show the reversal in the trend that we experience.

Another thing: In case you identify family tourism with Mom, Pop and two brats, you're possibly right. But the bid revenue figures from tourists are made from families without children, or couples, and I know at least twenty of them who decided to not go to Thailand after the closure last Year. They are the ones who patronise the expensive retaurants, the 4 or 5 star hotels, and the more exclusive clubs.

Sunny

Look at the figures, please! While the tourist figures eem to still go up, you might find that it mostly asian tourists that are coming in bigger numbers, while westerners are on the decline. No problem with this, but when you look at the spending habits, it paints a totally different picture. Lots of Asians come on prepaid group tours. They more often than not don't even have Thai Baht in their pocket to spend. My wife runs a beer bar in Pattaya next to one of those boxing rings.

Yes let's look at the figures from the TAT:

- Tourism 2000-2004 up 23%, average expenditure per tourist per day up 7%

- Tourists from East Asia up 22% (Korea up 103%, China up 11%)

- Tourists from Europe up 21% (UK up 32%, Russia up 140%)

- Tourists from Americas up 18% (US up 17%)

- Tourists from South Asia up 38% (India up 48%)

- Tourists from Oceana up 23% (Australia up 22%)

- Tourists from Middle East up 45%

- Tourists from Africa up 3%

It's clear that tourism is up in a big way. The 2005 numbers are even better, though it's not broken down yet by nationality. What is clear is the big increase in tourists from places like Russia, India, and Korea- whereas their numbers still are much less than the tourists coming from Europe, the difference can easily be seen in places like Pattaya.

Well, it has nowhere in the world proven successful in the long run that don't listening to the tourist's wishes can be successful. In fact, while I see a serious decline in western family as well as recreational tourist numbers, the sex tourists are most likely those that can adopt to the new scenario easily......

The evidence doesn't support your thinking. The amount of tourists is up, the hotel industry is thriving, real estate in places like Samui, Phuket, and even Pattaya is hot, restaurants (not late-night gwei-tiao stalls) are doing well, and so on. Certainly I don't know of any families on holiday who complain about 1am closing times in bars and clubs.

Fact is early closings hasn't affected tourism much if at all. The biggest affect is the loss of drink revenue to bars and clubs and the closing of primarily farang-populated bars.

Now I'm not saying I like the idea of 1am closings, but one has to be realistic in terms of what the ramifications are.

[Butterfly]

I was in Singapore not long ago, and the place has changed a lot. They had been capitalizing on the night scene for the last 5 years while Bangkok was becoming a provincial little town. Bangkok is done, Singapore is next. Wait until this becomes well know around the world, and Bangkok will be a thing of the past.

The Expat community in Singapore is much more vibrant than the one here. They have the nice restaurants (while here, they keep closing down one after the others because no enough business), the girls, the night clubs (Ministry of Sound is the hot place over there, and soon Q-Bar), and a great business environment. They have everything.

All we have is Taxsin and his silly social order

[Roger_JG]

Clearly you like playing pool. I thought the focus was more on the nightlife regarding night clubs rather than pool halls. I was on Silom 2 last Friday night, Tapas and the other place opposite went on til around 1:30 to 2:00. If one hour really bothers you then go out an hour earlier.

Yes and commies should live in China and anyone moaning shoud "go home"....just because 2.00am is OK for you it doesn't mean it suits everyone....

I'm sure my customers would be somewhat perlexed if I went out an hour earlier as I work till 9.30 most nights. add to that going home ,changing, eating, showering and there's not a lot of time left. The point about long or 24 hr opening is that it gives you a coice of where and when. The article is interestng because it is written from a foeiegn and therefore potential tourist point of view. The point being that the effects of the draconian restrictions is now being felt abroad and this cannot bode well for tourism in Bkk.

I am curious to know what kind of tourists we are taliking about here?

I wouldn't think that people come to Thailland for the nightlife ! Ibiza is there for that, or the greek isles...

So is it the backpackers? Too skint to have any money to go clubbing, they seems to only pile up in Kao San Road, scared to go anywhere else that could be unsafe...

The Familly + 2 kids? They stay in Jomtiem and enjoy the beach and the hotel pool...

So who are we talking about? The lone cowboy looking for a second life on lease on Viagra?

Could well be. Not sure that's the kind of tourism any country would really like to have...

There are plenty of opportunity for fun in BKK.

~R

[bkkmadness]

So is it the backpackers? Too skint to have any money to go clubbing, they seems to only pile up in Kao San Road, scared to go anywhere else that could be unsafe...

They also inject money and improve the economy into areas that many tourists wouldn't otherwise go to. Remember when Samui was a backpacker island? In fact, at one point Thailand was a country full of backpackers and very few package tourists.

anyway, bit off topic.

[wilko]

Let's remember what spurred the social order crusade. Rewind to circa 1999 and RCA was full of 'dek tiow' as young as 13 or 14. Yaa baa (amphetamines) was a major problem in schools, drunk driving was ignored, clubs and bars sprang up in quiet suburban streets.

Purachai's crusade was a popular one among parents (who by no coincidence, can vote)- get the kids back in schools, off the drugs, and put the nightlife scene under control.

A connection between closing times and drugs or underage law breakinng is somewhat tenuous I would have thought..

[Rumpole]

did any one hear the rumour that the Chinese government had given the Thais ultimatum's that if the -sex trade wasnt cleaned up that they would barr chineses tourist's from visiting Thailand in number's,

I doubt very much if there is any truth to this rumour. China has a burgeoning domestic sex trade of its own, often controlled by members of the Party and provincial governments. Much that is on offer in Thailand is equally available in the PRC - often at much cheaper prices (at least for the locals). The police seem to either have given up on trying to enforce the no prostitution laws, or else they have been warned off.

I recently spent a couple of weeks in Thailand after an absence of three years (been visiting since 1986 and also lived there on and off for extended periods). I didn't go specifically for the night life, which is perhaps just as well as this really does seem to be severely curtailed - much of Bangkok seemed to be dead, dark and dreary after midnight. Perhaps, as others have remarked, this is because I was essentially a tourist and am no longer au fait with where to go. Whilst the country may have other things to offer, a kick-ass night life is certainly no longer one of them. Pales into insignificance compared to Hong Kong, and even Shanghai is better, IMHO.

Edited March 5, 2006 by Rumpole

[Rumpole]

From what I see, these policies play right into promoting low-end sex tourists who love to drink and patronize the hookers out on the street. This is also the group who like to hang out at darkened beer bars or after hour shop houses. Is this what Thailand wants to become? Thailand is becoming MUCH more of a down market destination compared to other cities in the region. Another great example of Thai bumbling.

Very well said. This was precisely my impression, too.

[Crash999]

You're looking into a 2000 to 2004 statistic. As the big cutback on tourist nightlife happened in 2004, these figures are worthless. I have seen (sorry, can't provide details now) some regional statistics from 2004 to 2005 that show the reversal in the trend that we experience.

The numbers for 2005 are there on the TAT website, they're just not broken down into as much detail. And guess what? Tourism was up as a whole again in '05. The social order crusade happened several years ago, certainly not in 2004.

Once again, a valid argument can be made that certain sectors have been affected but as for tourism it just isn't showing. And if party-goers are being substituted for families then the TAT would consider that a job well done.

[Crash999]

A connection between closing times and drugs or underage law breakinng is somewhat tenuous I would have thought..

Closing time enforcement was more closely related to the entertainment zones- enforcement of the (already existing) law regarding closing hours all over the country and create entertainment zones whereby bars and clubs would be allowed to open late. The theory was with enforcement the bars and clubs would slowly migrate towards those designated zones thus reducing the sprawl. Only problem is the entertainment zones never appeared.

[jdinasia]

No "news" in this article :-) The author speaking/understanding Thai should have still been able to be out at fun wild discos until at least 6am.

Without being restricted to sidewalks or second stoty black curtained .....

But nothing compared to the good ol' days right? In fact a lot of these late night discos are bars are just plain crap, and even then nights happen when no booze is allowed. Even Ratchada soi 6 was closed down for 2 nights the other week.

Life must be sooo hard for people that just come to Thailand to whore around and drink til 6am! Losing the tourist $$ from guys that only spend it in discos and ladybars certainly is made up by getting tourists that actually see daylight!

That being said, those of us that live here .. should ... a) be able to find a place to party anytime from about noon until 6am. and speak enough Thai to accomplish that ;-)

I certainly have never had trouble being out at places with a good crowd and great music any night that I have wanted to ...

[bkkmadness]

No "news" in this article :-) The author speaking/understanding Thai should have still been able to be out at fun wild discos until at least 6am.

Without being restricted to sidewalks or second stoty black curtained .....

But nothing compared to the good ol' days right? In fact a lot of these late night discos are bars are just plain crap, and even then nights happen when no booze is allowed. Even Ratchada soi 6 was closed down for 2 nights the other week.

Life must be sooo hard for people that just come to Thailand to whore around and drink til 6am! Losing the tourist $$ from guys that only spend it in discos and ladybars certainly is made up by getting tourists that actually see daylight!

That being said, those of us that live here .. should ... a) be able to find a place to party anytime from about noon until 6am. and speak enough Thai to accomplish that ;-)

I certainly have never had trouble being out at places with a good crowd and great music any night that I have wanted to ...

It's so tiresome to deal with people that can't be bothered to read through all the posts on the thread and just rehash old statements always of course chucking in the 'whores' comments.

The point is, there..........is..................less..................of...............a.....

.......selection.............of bars..................to..................go......................to............

.....after...............a................certain... time (is that slow enough for you to understand dude?) and thats annoying for people that live here much more than tourists I would have thought.

It doesn't matter if you are fluent in Thai, its a fact that remains.

[Roger_JG]

No "news" in this article :-) The author speaking/understanding Thai should have still been able to be out at fun wild discos until at least 6am.

Without being restricted to sidewalks or second stoty black curtained .....

But nothing compared to the good ol' days right? In fact a lot of these late night discos are bars are just plain crap, and even then nights happen when no booze is allowed. Even Ratchada soi 6 was closed down for 2 nights the other week.

Life must be sooo hard for people that just come to Thailand to whore around and drink til 6am! Losing the tourist $$ from guys that only spend it in discos and ladybars certainly is made up by getting tourists that actually see daylight!

That being said, those of us that live here .. should ... a) be able to find a place to party anytime from about noon until 6am. and speak enough Thai to accomplish that ;-)

I certainly have never had trouble being out at places with a good crowd and great music any night that I have wanted to ...

It's so tiresome to deal with people that can't be bothered to read through all the posts on the thread and just rehash old statements always of course chucking in the 'whores' comments.

The point is, there..........is..................less..................of...............a.....

.......selection.............of bars..................to..................go......................to............

.....after...............a................certain... time (is that slow enough for you to understand dude?) and thats annoying for people that live here much more than tourists I would have thought.

It doesn't matter if you are fluent in Thai, its a fact that remains.

So why is it annoying?

How many places do you need exactly? How many do you have available now? Isn't that not enough? How many more would you like?

Why should bars open 24/7? In your opinion, is that a political and social choice that should be on a political manifesto in a modern democracy as a priority? Is that the future of mankind? 24/7 drink and booze?

Do you ever question the basis of your personal entertainment? what's behind ?

If not, I recommend: Susan Hunter's "AIDS in SE Asia: A continent in peril". You'll get the point then of a 2AM closure.

Because you see, the 2AM closure time is not just to annoy the expats and party-tourists, that's the tip of the iceberg. SE Asia is sitting on a time bomb which if not stopped will have direr consequences than you being annoyed.

~R

[bkkmadness]

So why is it annoying?

Because it simply is when your choice of entertainment is restricted. And this is a statement from someone who doesn't go out a great deal, but would like more choice when he does.

How many places do you need exactly?

More.

How many do you have available now?

Quite a few.

Isn't that not enough?

Obviously not.

How many more would you like?

As many as possible.

Why should bars open 24/7?

Why not?

In your opinion, is that a political and social choice that should be on a political manifesto in a modern democracy as a priority?

Obviously not as a priority, that's a bit ridiculous but since its what we are discussing in this thread I voiced my opinions on it.

Do you think that early closing hours for the business owners that do not bribe the police to stay open late is better?

Is that the future of mankind? 24/7 drink and booze?

Are we talking about the future of mankind here? I think not.

Do you ever question the basis of your personal entertainment? what's behind ?

Well, I like to go out and play a bit of pool at night, is that ok with you?

If not, I recommend: Susan Hunter's "AIDS in SE Asia: A continent in peril". You'll get the point then of a 2AM closure.

Are you suggesting that if I play pool and have a drink after 2 am I will catch AIDS?

[joinme2leave]

Are you suggesting that if I play pool and have a drink after 2 am I will catch AIDS?

[englishoak]

Yes let's look at the figures from the TAT:

- Tourism 2000-2004 up 23%, average expenditure per tourist per day up 7%

- Tourists from East Asia up 22% (Korea up 103%, China up 11%)

- Tourists from Europe up 21% (UK up 32%, Russia up 140%)

- Tourists from Americas up 18% (US up 17%)

- Tourists from South Asia up 38% (India up 48%)

- Tourists from Oceana up 23% (Australia up 22%)

- Tourists from Middle East up 45%

- Tourists from Africa up 3%

It's clear that tourism is up in a big way. The 2005 numbers are even better, though it's not broken down yet by nationality. What is clear is the big increase in tourists from places like Russia, India, and Korea- whereas their numbers still are much less than the tourists coming from Europe, the difference can easily be seen in places like Pattaya.

What a load of propagandist rubbish.Of course TAT would never falsify the figures to make everything look good would they?

Are you suggesting that if I play pool and have a drink after 2 am I will catch AIDS?

thank you bkkmadness for saving me the trouble..... jeez some people

[fourbaht]

Great response BKK I would guess Rogers EX BG wife wont let him out any more so he assumes none of us should be allowed out, tourists or dwellers.

Aids is predominantly a Thai - Thai problem, I am not saying its not a Thai Farrang problem but the majority are Thai - Thai sex workers from the information I have read up on over the years, and this crack down has had little or no effect on the Thai Thai sex industry.

Its all about control, or being seen to control the evil farrangs, lets remember who instigated these measures and where his popularity lies.

Having lived here under various regimes I must say the Thai people I know which is a reasonably wide cross section of society are mostly against this crack down.

[Roger_JG]

If not, I recommend: Susan Hunter's "AIDS in SE Asia: A continent in peril". You'll get the point then of a 2AM closure.

Are you suggesting that if I play pool and have a drink after 2 am I will catch AIDS?

I am suggesting that you and others are shortsighted...

~R

[bkkmadness]

If not, I recommend: Susan Hunter's "AIDS in SE Asia: A continent in peril". You'll get the point then of a 2AM closure.

Are you suggesting that if I play pool and have a drink after 2 am I will catch AIDS?

I am suggesting that you and others are shortsighted...

~R

Since I don't have the book to hand, could you just give us a little insight on why the earlier closing of bars effects the AIDs rate in Thailand?

I'm honestly interested to discuss it, as it sounds like a bit of a wild theory.

[Patex]

bkkmadness,

If it is all about playing pool why not get yourself a table??

All these people, bored to death by themselfes, whining for entertainment, shouldn't carry their boredom to foreign countries.

How sad one's life must be, traveling the half planet just for sex&drugs&R&R?

[bkkmadness]

bkkmadness,

If it is all about playing pool why not get yourself a table??

All these people, bored to death by themselfes, whining for entertainment, shouldn't carry their boredom to foreign countries.

How sad one's life must be, traveling the half planet just for sex&drugs&R&R?

Well its obviously not just about the pool, I was using an example, I kinda hoped people would have picked up on that.

Besides, would I have to buy a table and then bring in loads of players as well?

You'll find many Thai people disagree with the regulations as well, do you suggest they all move to foreign countries?

Nothing to do with a sad life, I'm sure most people like to go out once in a while, and who's talking about drugs and sex here? Is that all you associate with Bangkok nightlife?

Edited March 5, 2006 by bkkmadness