Social Order' Takes The Life Out Of Night Life

[Roger_JG]

I seriously doubt that Singapore will ever relax its laws to the extent it will be like what Thailand used to be before Thaksin. Saigon is very much like Bangkok in the early to mid 90s, and I certainly wouldn't hurry to party in a country that considers relaxing its laws by allowing the use of chewing gum in pharmacies a concession to foreign tourism and trade.

Chewing gum thing was because to get the FTA with USA, the state where Wrigley chewing gum is from had a member of the FTA negotation team; nothing to do with tourism, everything to do with self interest of that negotiator.

Singapore is so crazily expensive to club in that it is quite a different scene to here.

Zouk etc are ###### good, but the DnB they play there is not so much my thing; however it seems there needs to be some balance which was somewhat promised by the zoning, and hasn't been carried out yet.

Nonetheless, it used to be crazy to have big clubs pounding music until 6am in residential neighbourhoods, I think we can agree on that. (e.g. RCA 2).

Well spotted. It is all about self interest disguised as personal freedom.

Ah, what shouldn’t we be able to do in the name of our personal freedom, or should I say navel watching?

Sustainable development is all about meeting the needs of our generation without compromising future generations' ability to do the same (WCED,1987)

Would the stone head of the thread get that?

No. it’s just so much more fun to take the piss and tune to navel watching mode.

Of course people sufficiently evolved and educated understand that they have NO right to make Thailand THEIR playground. But obviously many are far from the minimum requirement for understanding that.

There is a middle way in life and in particular in Buddhist life. 2AM is a reasonable closing time (which by the way is a pretty standard closing time in the UK, excl. London) that allows some form of regulation of some forms of entertainment that extends beyond the expats joints, but I am probably already talking into a vacuum…

~R

[p_brownstone]

Just for information.

Some (politically) quite knowledgeable Thai friends with whom I played Golf this morning were of the opinion that if Thaksin resigns and a new interim Prime Minister is Royally appointed - a front runner is ................ Purachai.

As I think someone else said in another Post - better the devil you know!

Patrick

[JimsKnight]

Great article ............. Spot on too

I came to Thailand in 2000 and lived in BKK for 4 years. It has gone from being a fantastic 24 hr city to a very average city that grinds to a halt after about 2m.

When I arrived there was always soemwhere to go..... drink........... eat ........... and party..... You could pretty much go 24hr anywhere in Bkk and it would be easy to find somewhere new to try. There was so much you found on the nights out...... people you met and interesting bars.... food stalls ........stalls..... This was not just in the center either, all around the suburbs there were things to do ... places to be ..... people to meet..It was in short one of the best cities in the world ......... for the ultimate thai word SANOOK !

During the next 4 years i watched the clubs close down .... stalls shut ...... and eateries close early....

The people I know ..... the small stall holders ...... restauant owners ..... bars ......... clubs .... are all struggling .......

A few friends of mine can over in 2000 ....... WOW was the reaction, the Thai's realy know how to have a good time............ Some different friends came over in 2004..... Wow was the reaction whats with the curfew after 12pm? ... thought this was the city that never sleeps....

I popped back to bkk last in 2005 ...... It is quite simply a city that is losing it's soul ...... Sure you can still go out till all hours .......... but only to certain areas .... and you've got to be in the know...

It's becoming sanitised Some may argue this is progress ...... this is more like giving Thailand a labotomy, it's is losing a fundemental part of it's personality.....

Real people, real stories ........... It's hurting the normal people ...... No question.......

I'm now in my own country saving like mad to retire to Thailand ASAP. I hope that by that time the country will have come to it's senses. I get the feeling it'll not be until a while after boxhead has finally moved on...... 2010?

English Oak is telling it like it is folks!

I first came to the promising LOS in 2000 also and can echo all of the above! Vietnam, malaysia, Cambodia etc rub their hands with glee when Thailand began to bring about the 'lame' factor into the nightlife scene of Bangkok, Thailand. Even in the outskirts away from the tourists eyes its the same! The Kareoke joints (mostly what nightlife there is on the fringes of Bangkok shut at 0100 hrs and many wind down at about 1230am for gods sake! The police are out and about checking them all too. The after-hours stuff is poor quality for what whent before!

Every thai I've spoken to from the working girl to the owners have critized the toxin mans policies on night-life restrictions. The Restaurants are open late but few tend to go to them though.

For my retirement mission and it remains to be seen if the LOS is on the retirement country list!

[kyselak]

Irish leaders in global St Patrick's Day promotion drive

by Andrew Bushe

DUBLIN, March 10, 2006 (AFP) - Ireland's political leaders are

jetting off on a global drive to promote the nation at St Patrick's

Day festivities around the world next week, the government said

Friday.

The Dail, the lower house of parliament, will close down for a

week, during a mass exodus designed to "maximise opportunities for

showcasing Ireland as a world class economy and tourism

destination," it said in a statement.

Expatriate communities across the world -- an estimated 70

million people worldwide claim an Irish connection -- request an

Irish minister's presence to help them celebrate the March 17

holiday, it said.

In all, 29 members of the government are heading for 22

countries on five continents, ranging from the United States,

Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to Japan, China,

Malaysia, Thailand and South Africa.

Prime Minister Bertie Ahern leaves Monday for the United States,

where he will meet US President George W. Bush at the White House.

Four other ministers and five junior ministers will also travel to

that country.

"The special opportunity, unique to Ireland, that the occasion

provides for direct and detailed dialogue with the president of the

US and his administration, and also key players on Capitol Hill, is

exceptionally valued by the government," the statement said.

According to the US Census, 34 million people there claim Irish

ancestry, more than eight times the population of Ireland and

trailing only Americans of German stock.

Visits to the United States will also be used to highlight the

"particular priority" which the government attaches to the issue of

the thousands of "undocumented" illegal Irish immigrants.

Worldwide, the goodwill and attention afforded by March 17

"offers an unrivalled opportunity to promote modern Ireland overseas

and to engage directly on a variety of issues," the government

said.

But Green Party leader Trevor Sargent has criticised the

suspension of parliament for more than a week.

"We are being asked to turn St Patrick's Day into St Patrick's

week, which is unique for most people in this country who expect

next Friday to be the only day that is a holiday," Sargent told

parliament on Thursday.

"This Dail should start to recognise that outside this House

this is completely unacceptable, regardless of the explanations

being put out that some members are going to be on the other side of

the world and therefore we all have to mark time," Sargent said.

The other destinations for Irish politicians are the United Arab

Emirates and Bahrain, Sweden, Norway, France, Italy, Belgium, Czech

Republic, Hungary, Russia as well as Argentina and Chile, the

statement said.

ab/lc/km

AFP 101402 GMT MAR 06

[Orion76]

Some (politically) quite knowledgeable Thai friends with whom I played Golf this morning were of the opinion that if Thaksin resigns and a new interim Prime Minister is Royally appointed - a front runner is ................ Purachai.

[sHUDDER]

Now there's something to think about for those who'd love to see Thaksin resign..... be careful what you wish for.....

Edited March 10, 2006 by Orion76

[jdinasia]

Great article ............. Spot on too

I came to Thailand in 2000 and lived in BKK for 4 years. It has gone from being a fantastic 24 hr city to a very average city that grinds to a halt after about 2m.

When I arrived there was always soemwhere to go..... drink........... eat ........... and party..... You could pretty much go 24hr anywhere in Bkk and it would be easy to find somewhere new to try. There was so much you found on the nights out...... people you met and interesting bars.... food stalls ........stalls..... This was not just in the center either, all around the suburbs there were things to do ... places to be ..... people to meet..It was in short one of the best cities in the world ......... for the ultimate thai word SANOOK !

During the next 4 years i watched the clubs close down .... stalls shut ...... and eateries close early....

The people I know ..... the small stall holders ...... restauant owners ..... bars ......... clubs .... are all struggling .......

A few friends of mine can over in 2000 ....... WOW was the reaction, the Thai's realy know how to have a good time............ Some different friends came over in 2004..... Wow was the reaction whats with the curfew after 12pm? ... thought this was the city that never sleeps....

I popped back to bkk last in 2005 ...... It is quite simply a city that is losing it's soul ...... Sure you can still go out till all hours .......... but only to certain areas .... and you've got to be in the know...

It's becoming sanitised Some may argue this is progress ...... this is more like giving Thailand a labotomy, it's is losing a fundemental part of it's personality.....

Real people, real stories ........... It's hurting the normal people ...... No question.......

I'm now in my own country saving like mad to retire to Thailand ASAP. I hope that by that time the country will have come to it's senses. I get the feeling it'll not be until a while after boxhead has finally moved on...... 2010?

English Oak is telling it like it is folks!

I first came to the promising LOS in 2000 also and can echo all of the above! Vietnam, malaysia, Cambodia etc rub their hands with glee when Thailand began to bring about the 'lame' factor into the nightlife scene of Bangkok, Thailand. Even in the outskirts away from the tourists eyes its the same! The Kareoke joints (mostly what nightlife there is on the fringes of Bangkok shut at 0100 hrs and many wind down at about 1230am for gods sake! The police are out and about checking them all too. The after-hours stuff is poor quality for what whent before!

Every thai I've spoken to from the working girl to the owners have critized the toxin mans policies on night-life restrictions. The Restaurants are open late but few tend to go to them though.

For my retirement mission and it remains to be seen if the LOS is on the retirement country list!

OK ... 2 Tourists heard from! Lived here for a few years .. partied here for a few more on top of that ... things have changed but hel_l all things do everywhere ... It was really funny to read about the other ASEAN countries being so excited about the changes here!

Yes to some degree you have to be somewhat "in the know" to find hopping afterhours places. Just the same as in NYC or London etc. Sad for you guys that it just doesn't measure up .. but maybe it's for the best :-)

[kyselak]

Irish leaders in global St Patrick's Day promotion drive

by Andrew Bushe

DUBLIN, March 10, 2006 (AFP) - Ireland's political leaders are

jetting off on a global drive to promote the nation at St Patrick's

Day festivities around the world next week, the government said

Friday.

In all, 29 members of the government are heading for 22

countries on five continents, ranging from the United States,

Britain, Canada, Australia and New Zealand to Japan, China,

Malaysia, Thailand and South Africa.

well, it's a bit strange to quote one's own mail but here we go: at least for Malaysia (where I lived for 5 years) they shouldn't worry. The Irish in KL have a whale of a time and meet in not inexpensive hotels and drink *till they have to call the ambulance*,

[englishoak]

OK ... 2 Tourists heard from! Lived here for a few years .. partied here for a few more on top of that

Hardly tourist, I had a business there for that time too.......... and no it did fine thanks just moved on. Curious to know what time period you have to be somewhere before the old dodgers deem to accept you as an expat?

Yes to some degree you have to be somewhat "in the know" to find hopping afterhours places. Just the same as in NYC or London etc. Sad for you guys that it just doesn't measure up .. but maybe it's for the best :-)

Never said I was'nt in the know, thats not the point I or the other post was making ..... kindly learn to read and consider the point of the post before trying to lay the "iv'e been here for ages and i'm an expert" line down.

*jeez some people*

[jdinasia]

Hun ... you've been gone a long time and ..

"I popped back to bkk last in 2005 ...... It is quite simply a city that is losing it's soul ...... Sure you can still go out till all hours .......... but only to certain areas .... and you've got to be in the know..."

When I go to London or Atlanta I am now a tourist ... (strange how that works .... if you pop back in in 2005 ... then you don't live there ... hence ... "a tourist") <well ... guess you could be a business traveller instead ... same results though>

But really ... No problem ... I always admire tourists that are sad that when they travel someplace they can't party 'til 4 or 6am! After all that's why I get on a plane and travel 10-18 hours ... to spend my time in bars!

Edited March 12, 2006 by jdinasia

[englishoak]

As said before you obviously miss the point............. "hun"

[jdinasia]

EngOak "Hardly tourist, I had a business there for that time too.......... and no it did fine thanks just moved on. Curious to know what time period you have to be somewhere before the old dodgers deem to accept you as an expat? "

Are you a tourist when you come to Bangkok or not? If you don't live here then the answer would seem obvious. If you are then just accept that "2 tourists heard from" was an accurate observation and move on.

[englishoak]

Depends on the definition of tourist..... but just to keep you happy lets have a look....

Chambers dictionary....tourist.......... meaning....excurtionist, globe-trotter, explorer,voyager,

sightseer,holidaymaker,journeyer,traveller,tripper,visitor,trekker,day-tripper

I Guess that covers just about everyone going anywhere ......... funny but I never thought about the fact that when I go to Tesco's I am in fact a tourist or mabe a day-tripper doing some shopping

I always thought of a tourist as someone on vacation or going somewhere new as in sightseeing, I never considered it the same thing when having another purpose.... visiting relatives at xmas would be considered touristing ? when living in BKK going back to see family in uk is being a tourist ? going to another location to do business?

I would be more inclined to describe myself and other members with family/friends in thailand as visitors but according to the above it means the same anyway. It also infers that going anyplace other than in your house makes you a tourist

So congrats on being 100% correct JD point to you.....

[jdinasia]

Hmmm when I return to "home" (any of several places where I have lived long term ... still pay taxes etc ...) then I don't consider myself a tourist.

When I return to Hua Hin where I have lived in the past I do considermyself a tourist :-)

But I guess resorting to symantics is worth it ... even when it doesn't support your point!

I guess when I move from BKK to Krabi ... or Siem Reap I will consider myself a tourist in BKK. (unless I own a condo in BKK to return to :-)

[englishoak]

hmmm strange word "tourist"......... mabe i'll open a new topic and ask the other tv members ...... might be interesting

[Hermano Lobo]

'Social Order' , 'Social Order' ? More like the basis for a 'Dictators Charter'.

It should be called Social Control.

Not only in Thailand ! Ever heard of the The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill ?

Hardly the sexiest sounding name but it is highly dangerous if you live in the UK?

The 'Rump' Parliament tried it during the time of Oliver Cromwell -He kicked it out!

Try these links:-

(1) Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill

(2) The Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill

Heil everybody !

Edited March 15, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[Hermano Lobo]

A sad, but accurate report.

The worst part is the pushing underground of parts of the scene, taking them

out of official view and control.

Pushed some of it underground, and parts of it on to the sidewalk.

Just amazing logic being used when closing down these venues at an earlier hour, and then allowing street vendors to set up shop right down the soi selling Jack Daniel’s and such well after said closing times.

Maybe they are attempting to turn BKK into a Marti Gras street festival after hours.

The Nation Newspaper published my letter when I made similar points:-

Navigating Third World pavements and early closing

[ChiangMaiThai]

Somehow I don't think people will be turning up in droves in Singapore.

Yes, no one is interested in a world class casino, soem of the best shopping in the world and 24/7 nightlife. Are you an ignorant Thai politician? Eventually, Thailand will see all the tourists and more importantly, all the money flooding into Singpaore and they will come to their senses.

THAKSIN ORK PAI!

[jdinasia]

somehow I think that Life in Thailand with the beaches, fun clubs and bars, great food, better people etc ... will keep the people coming back to Thailand :-)

[cclub75]

somehow I think that Life in Thailand with the beaches, fun clubs and bars, great food, better people etc ... will keep the people coming back to Thailand :-)

Sure. But it would be even better with... simply... freedom of choice.

Free to end the night early, free to end it very late.

Within a proper legal framework (zoning for instance etc.).

I mean : just plain common sense, nothing fancy or complicated.

Right now, we just suffer psychotic people in power who act like they punish people (the so called "social order" campain).

Anyway, soon everything will go back to "normal".

We are going to have a weak prime minister, whose main job will be to please all the factions (in asian politic we call that "maintain the harmony") and therefore won't have time to pursue lunatics and grandioses ideas of change.

My only political agenda and ambition : to be free to order a whisky on the rocks at 5 AM.

Sorry.

[jdinasia]

lol ... let me know where you are ... i'll let you know where to get that drink ;-)

[Hermano Lobo]

I wrote this about 18 months ago. I wonder if it still applies ?

Stickman's guide to Bangkok

Readers' Submissions

A Thai Nightmare

By Comrade

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I had a dream. In the dream I was visiting Thailand after a break of about three years. I walked down Soi 4 Nana tai past what was N.E.P, it had become a shopping centre. There were pictures of Premier Thaksin everywhere, Thailand had become a Republic. The open bar in front of the Nana Hotel had become a fast pizza franchise. I then caught the Skytrain and Subway to Soi Cowboy. The bars and gogos had gone and except for a couple of restaurants it was a pedestrian street full of ladies clothes and shoe shops. Another trip on the Subway and Sky train with their warnings of heavy fines for dropping chewing gum and cigarettes brought me to what was Chatuchak Market, it had become a large bus station. Undeterred I travelled to Patpong in the evening to look for some designer copies and cheap CDs. Patpong had become a couple of streets with expensive shops and the market stalls had disappeared. A fading sign said 'Fight Piracy !' The shops had closed at 6pm and there was not a cheap CD or cheap anything in sight. Everywhere the Thais looked wary and glanced away not wanting to return eye contact. Cowed and serious the smiles had gone. I took some money from an ATM with retinal recognition, the money exchange shop next door quoted Euros, the pound sterling had disappeared. As in Hong Kong the Thais mostly used electronic cards instead of money. Bangkok had become as expensive as Europe. The streets were spotlessly clean and the beggars and stray dogs had disappeared.

A smartly dressed policeman seemed to be on every street corner, they were checking bags as there had been a terrorist alert. CCTV cameras were beginning to sprout like mushrooms and monitored the progress of cars digitally. Cars were charged to drive in Bangkok, their journeys tracked electronically. In the dream I watched a policeman fine a pedestrian for dropping a cigarette end. On the way back to my hotel I passed a book shop, the newspapers outside had full front page coverage of European Federation President Blair meeting Premier Thaksin to discuss the Asian Union, big smiles all round.

My hotel was quiet and the staff appeared polite but subdued as if frightened of something. A sign in the almost empty hotel bar said 'Closes at 10pm' the staff looked bored or sad.

The next day I took a luxury aircon bus to Pattaya to look up an old friend. I walked through Soi Diamond to get to Walking Street. The gogos and bars that were left were closed and boarded up. A sign outside my friend's gogo had faded with age. It stated that he had gone back to 'NZ' and then gave a barely readable address. Walking Street had become a fashion shopping precinct rather like Bond Street in London. Again pictures of Premier Thaksin dominated public areas, they had replaced Rama V, echoes of North Korea. There was not a farang in sight. The bars had gone.

Where the Thai Boxing ring and 'Dolls House' Go-go had been there was now a shopping mall. The escalator that led to the 'Peppermint A-Go go' now led to a designer shoe shop and a McDonalds. Stone faced security guards stood where once there were 'service girls'. The ladyboy disco now sold ice-cream. I saw shops offering 'Traditional Massage Only'. The word 'only' was made to stand out. No girl asked if I wanted to come in. Just like Bangkok the Thais looked serious and cowed, afraid to make eye-contact with a Farang, I felt like an outcast. A group of neatly dressed school children scurried past, they wore badges on their uniforms which said 'Young Pioneers' in English and Thai. Suspicious eyes flicked in my direction. I awaited denouncement.

Beach Road was full of families from India, Australia and what looked like Malays or Indonesians with their muslim attire. At least there were a few Australian farangs, I couldn't miss the accent. A large sign invited you to 'DisneyAsia'-Pattaya only 10 kms away. Accompanying that sign was another, triumphanting Thai rice production for the 'Asian Union'. Most of the bars on Beach Road and the sois had gone, the girlie bars had been replaced by either hotels or expensive shops run by Indians. There were a few Swiss and Belgian restaurants but few Farangs in them. Other bars had become fashionable ice-cream parlours all fighting for trade. Like Bangkok everywhere looked spotlessly clean. One bar had a sign saying No singing, No dancing. There wasn't any music and the televisions showed endless football matches or programmes on farming. It reminded me of Greece under the Colonels. Dismayed and with a heavy heart I returned to Bangkok and then to the airport cutting my holiday short. Arriving at Don Muang another sign proclaimed that the new airport 'Thaksin International' was due to open on time in 2010, they were now using the western calendar.

I awoke in a cold sweat, it was after all, just a dream.

Strange dreams and nightmares are made of unusual things.

Stickman says:

Scary stuff!

Edited March 23, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[jdinasia]

Sounds nice if it means that it cleans up Nana and Patters a bit :-)

[marquess]

I was having a discussion about this with a Thai student the other day. He said that he was fed up to being told to go home at 1 or 2 am. I told him that apart from the women, the night life here sucked, and that if you liked clubbing, your better off with a trip to Roponggi or Electric Avenue in Tokyo, all night and no restrictions, more variety of music too! That a%% hole, believes he knows, best, it will only get worst if he stays in power, just look at the way the internet is going?

[Hermano Lobo]

I wrote this because I believed that Tax-the-Sin the part time PM wanted to turn Thailand into another Singapore. At the moment I understand that Singapore has a better nightlife ?

Thaksin surrounded himself by holier than thou drink not, dance not, have fun not types who in a word are WEIRD ! It makes one wonder whether Tax-the-sin is like that himself ? But what does he care he is a pig-in-poo Billionaire ?