Obama Calls For More Gun Control

[chuckd]

Fast and Furious put how many guns on the street compared to many guns cartels purchase illegal from US each and every month.

The problem in Mexico is if you give weapons to government forces to fight cartels they just end up in hands of cartel. Lines are blurred and most police and federal officers are aligned with one of the many cartels in some form or fashion.

The cartels also have MANPADs, RPGs, Barrett 50s. 5.7s, 50 cal mounted machine guns and whatever they want.

70,000 US weapons confiscated in Mexico in five years. The 2,000 fast and furious weapons have zero impact down there and just something else to politicize by people who really do not even care about the plight of theMexucan people or else they would focus on something that mattered.

Since you claim to be an attorney, I am certain you would want all the facts to come out on the alleged 70,000 US sourced weapons that have been found in Mexico during the past five years.

You do realize this number also includes US MANUFACTURED weapons legally exported to other countries by the manufacturer and purchased abroad don't you?

The cartels having heavier weaponry than semi-automatic rifles and handguns also means they were not purchased legally in the US, since none of the weapons you mentioned are available for across the counter purchase in the US.

You seem to believe 2,000 weapons are insignificant in the total picture. Try and tell that to the family of Brian Terry.

Your plea on behalf of the Mexican people is commendable. What have you done lately to help these poor souls?

[F430murci]

Fast and Furious put how many guns on the street compared to many guns cartels purchase illegal from US each and every month.

The problem in Mexico is if you give weapons to government forces to fight cartels they just end up in hands of cartel. Lines are blurred and most police and federal officers are aligned with one of the many cartels in some form or fashion.

The cartels also have MANPADs, RPGs, Barrett 50s. 5.7s, 50 cal mounted machine guns and whatever they want.

70,000 US weapons confiscated in Mexico in five years. The 2,000 fast and furious weapons have zero impact down there and just something else to politicize by people who really do not even care about the plight of theMexucan people or else they would focus on something that mattered.

Since you claim to be an attorney, I am certain you would want all the facts to come out on the alleged 70,000 US sourced weapons that have been found in Mexico during the past five years.

You do realize this number also includes US MANUFACTURED weapons legally exported to other countries by the manufacturer and purchased abroad don't you?

The cartels having heavier weaponry than semi-automatic rifles and handguns also means they were not purchased legally in the US, since none of the weapons you mentioned are available for across the counter purchase in the US.

You seem to believe 2,000 weapons are insignificant in the total picture. Try and tell that to the family of Brian Terry.

Your plea on behalf of the Mexican people is commendable. What have you done lately to help these poor souls?

Logic and analytical ability is completely lacking. The sole point of 70,000 confiscated is that 2,000 is insignificant and made zero difference in what is going on down there. 70,000 is a small fraction of total guns.

These cartels have huge stock piles of weapons. Here is an article stating 2,000 US weapons entering Mexico EACH DAY back in 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/28/AR2007102801654.html

Of course SOME of the weapons are purchased illegally . . . Cartels, however, drive over the border and buy anything they want at huge premiums. Many weapons are purchased through various loop holes in US.

Excerpt from Article cited above:

The U.S. weapons -- as many as 2,000 enter Mexico each day, according to a Mexican government study -- are crucial tools in an astoundingly barbaric war between rival cartels that has cost 4,000 lives in the past 18 months and sent law enforcement agencies in Washington and Mexico City into crisis mode.

These drug traffickers, with their steady supply of U.S. weaponry, are the target of President Bush's proposed $500 million U.S. aid package to help Mexico battle cartels. Officials with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF, hope that some of the money will be used to give Mexican police chiefs greater access to U.S. databases for gun traces. Currently, the traces can be made only through federal police headquarters in Mexico City. Many police chiefs do not even bother to make requests because of the inevitable bureaucratic delays.

Corrupt customs officials help smuggle weapons into Mexico, earning as much as $1 million for large shipments, police here say. The weapons are often bought legally at gun shows in Arizona and other border states where loopholes allow criminals to stock up without background checks.

Edited February 24, 2013 by F430murci

[chuckd]

Fast and Furious put how many guns on the street compared to many guns cartels purchase illegal from US each and every month.

The problem in Mexico is if you give weapons to government forces to fight cartels they just end up in hands of cartel. Lines are blurred and most police and federal officers are aligned with one of the many cartels in some form or fashion.

The cartels also have MANPADs, RPGs, Barrett 50s. 5.7s, 50 cal mounted machine guns and whatever they want.

70,000 US weapons confiscated in Mexico in five years. The 2,000 fast and furious weapons have zero impact down there and just something else to politicize by people who really do not even care about the plight of theMexucan people or else they would focus on something that mattered.

Since you claim to be an attorney, I am certain you would want all the facts to come out on the alleged 70,000 US sourced weapons that have been found in Mexico during the past five years.

You do realize this number also includes US MANUFACTURED weapons legally exported to other countries by the manufacturer and purchased abroad don't you?

The cartels having heavier weaponry than semi-automatic rifles and handguns also means they were not purchased legally in the US, since none of the weapons you mentioned are available for across the counter purchase in the US.

You seem to believe 2,000 weapons are insignificant in the total picture. Try and tell that to the family of Brian Terry.

Your plea on behalf of the Mexican people is commendable. What have you done lately to help these poor souls?

Logic and analytical ability is completely lacking. The sole point of 70,000 confiscated is that 2,000 is insignificant and made zero difference in what is going on down there. 70,000 is a small fraction of total guns.

These cartels have huge stock piles of weapons. Here is an article stating 2,000 US weapons entering Mexico EACH DAY back in 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/28/AR2007102801654.html

Of course SOME of the weapons are purchased illegally . . . Cartels, however, drive over the border and buy anything they want at huge premiums. Many weapons are purchased through various loop holes in US.

Excerpt from Article cited above:

The U.S. weapons -- as many as 2,000 enter Mexico each day, according to a Mexican government study -- are crucial tools in an astoundingly barbaric war between rival cartels that has cost 4,000 lives in the past 18 months and sent law enforcement agencies in Washington and Mexico City into crisis mode.

These drug traffickers, with their steady supply of U.S. weaponry, are the target of President Bush's proposed $500 million U.S. aid package to help Mexico battle cartels. Officials with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF, hope that some of the money will be used to give Mexican police chiefs greater access to U.S. databases for gun traces. Currently, the traces can be made only through federal police headquarters in Mexico City. Many police chiefs do not even bother to make requests because of the inevitable bureaucratic delays.

Corrupt customs officials help smuggle weapons into Mexico, earning as much as $1 million for large shipments, police here say. The weapons are often bought legally at gun shows in Arizona and other border states where loopholes allow criminals to stock up without background checks.

Logic and analytical ability works both ways.

What you are claiming is since the 2,000 weapons sent to Mexico is such a small drop in the bucket to the 70,000 US "sourced" weapons found, the DOJ and Obama administration did nothing wrong and can be excused.

To an upstanding attorney such as yourself, I would have thought you would be particularly upset that the government would be complicit in a gun running operation to drug cartels in Mexico.

Please advise if I am incorrect in interpreting your written comments.

[Morden]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

[Chicog]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

Absolutely - organised by the NRA and the Republican party, both of whom have no interest in anything other than hobbling Obama until he leaves office.

[chuckd]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

Absolutely - organised by the NRA and the Republican party, both of whom have no interest in anything other than hobbling Obama until he leaves office.

You guys are hilarious.

Maybe you should be worrying more about your horse food sources than guns in America.

[Chicog]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

Absolutely - organised by the NRA and the Republican party, both of whom have no interest in anything other than hobbling Obama until he leaves office.

You guys are hilarious.

Maybe you should be worrying more about your horse food sources than guns in America.

Maybe I don't care so much about what goes into mince (and frankly Horse should be the least of peoples' worries).

[Morden]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

Absolutely - organised by the NRA and the Republican party, both of whom have no interest in anything other than hobbling Obama until he leaves office.

And I suspect that there's a racist element to some of that.

[sustento]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

Absolutely - organised by the NRA and the Republican party, both of whom have no interest in anything other than hobbling Obama until he leaves office.

You guys are hilarious.

Maybe you should be worrying more about your horse food sources than guns in America.

Horse meat hasn't killed any schoolchildren recently...

[Morden]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

Absolutely - organised by the NRA and the Republican party, both of whom have no interest in anything other than hobbling Obama until he leaves office.

You guys are hilarious.

Maybe you should be worrying more about your horse food sources than guns in America.

Horse meat hasn't killed any schoolchildren recently...

Quite so. Those trying to divert attention from the issue are getting desperate in their attempts.

[chuckd]

You guys are really getting entertaining. Keep it up.

I enjoy this monkey see...monkey do act you all seem to have mastered.

Edited February 24, 2013 by chuckd

[submaniac]

Monkey see monkey do. The entire thread is a massive circle jerk going around in circles by people who don't know anything about guns condemning a country they don't live in. Whatever they say it doesn't change the fact that Obama doesn't have enough congressional votes to do anything.

[Morden]

Monkey see monkey do. The entire thread is a massive circle jerk going around in circles by people who don't know anything about guns condemning a country they don't live in. Whatever they say it doesn't change the fact that Obama doesn't have enough congressional votes to do anything.

Chappie, you are making a big assumption if you believe that people here don't know about guns. And no-one is condemning a country.

I've noticed that none of the any-person-any-gun-anywhere brigade have shown any feelings for those kids who were killed, their families or the kids that saw the massacre and survived.

[F430murci]

Isn't all this stuff about Fast and Furious a smoke screen to divert attention from the fact that the US has a sickness that needs to be dealt with?

Absolutely. Smoke screen is best one can do with such a perverted position . . . and then acting like they suddenly care about Mexico over something like Fast and Futious when their policies place the same amount of guns in Mexico every day. Then again, we are dealing with a mentality that hates the government and thinks the ATF is evil.

[F430murci]

Fast and Furious put how many guns on the street compared to many guns cartels purchase illegal from US each and every month.

The problem in Mexico is if you give weapons to government forces to fight cartels they just end up in hands of cartel. Lines are blurred and most police and federal officers are aligned with one of the many cartels in some form or fashion.

The cartels also have MANPADs, RPGs, Barrett 50s. 5.7s, 50 cal mounted machine guns and whatever they want.

70,000 US weapons confiscated in Mexico in five years. The 2,000 fast and furious weapons have zero impact down there and just something else to politicize by people who really do not even care about the plight of theMexucan people or else they would focus on something that mattered.

Since you claim to be an attorney, I am certain you would want all the facts to come out on the alleged 70,000 US sourced weapons that have been found in Mexico during the past five years.

You do realize this number also includes US MANUFACTURED weapons legally exported to other countries by the manufacturer and purchased abroad don't you?

The cartels having heavier weaponry than semi-automatic rifles and handguns also means they were not purchased legally in the US, since none of the weapons you mentioned are available for across the counter purchase in the US.

You seem to believe 2,000 weapons are insignificant in the total picture. Try and tell that to the family of Brian Terry.

Your plea on behalf of the Mexican people is commendable. What have you done lately to help these poor souls?

Logic and analytical ability is completely lacking. The sole point of 70,000 confiscated is that 2,000 is insignificant and made zero difference in what is going on down there. 70,000 is a small fraction of total guns.

These cartels have huge stock piles of weapons. Here is an article stating 2,000 US weapons entering Mexico EACH DAY back in 2007.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/28/AR2007102801654.html

Of course SOME of the weapons are purchased illegally . . . Cartels, however, drive over the border and buy anything they want at huge premiums. Many weapons are purchased through various loop holes in US.

Excerpt from Article cited above:

The U.S. weapons -- as many as 2,000 enter Mexico each day, according to a Mexican government study -- are crucial tools in an astoundingly barbaric war between rival cartels that has cost 4,000 lives in the past 18 months and sent law enforcement agencies in Washington and Mexico City into crisis mode.

These drug traffickers, with their steady supply of U.S. weaponry, are the target of President Bush's proposed $500 million U.S. aid package to help Mexico battle cartels. Officials with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, or ATF, hope that some of the money will be used to give Mexican police chiefs greater access to U.S. databases for gun traces. Currently, the traces can be made only through federal police headquarters in Mexico City. Many police chiefs do not even bother to make requests because of the inevitable bureaucratic delays.

Corrupt customs officials help smuggle weapons into Mexico, earning as much as $1 million for large shipments, police here say. The weapons are often bought legally at gun shows in Arizona and other border states where loopholes allow criminals to stock up without background checks.

Logic and analytical ability works both ways.

What you are claiming is since the 2,000 weapons sent to Mexico is such a small drop in the bucket to the 70,000 US "sourced" weapons found, the DOJ and Obama administration did nothing wrong and can be excused.

To an upstanding attorney such as yourself, I would have thought you would be particularly upset that the government would be complicit in a gun running operation to drug cartels in Mexico.

Please advise if I am incorrect in interpreting your written comments.

As is usual, when reasoning and logic is against you, you revert to misrepresentations and personal attacks or attacking the messenger.

I do not condone Fast and Furious, but I believe the focus should remain on the bigger issue from which the actual problem arises.

Disingenuous to make such a huge deal about 2,000 guns under Fast and Furious yet condone the gravamen of the problem that permits the same amount of guns to enter Mexico daily.

Something about not seeing forest for the trees comes to mind. Difficult to tell if intentional or incapable.

[submaniac]

Chappie, you are making a big assumption if you believe that people here don't know about guns. And no-one is condemning a country.

It's not an assumption. It is an articulation of fact based upon your previous posts and responses.

1. You do not own a gun. Your wife owns a gun.

2. You come from a country which bans civilian handgun ownership, and owerniship of semi-automatic rifles.

3. You posted previously that everyone who doesn't own a gunsafe was irresponsible and should not be allowed to own a gun. Then I pointed out to you that a hunting or targe rifle will have a barrel in excess of 24 inches, making the use of a gunsafe impractical as they would weigh at least 400lbs. I then asked you if you were so knowledgeable about guns, about bullet caliber and grain suitable for hunting whitetail dear, which you avoided responding too. That's actually not a difficult question because anyone who knows guns would know the anwer to that question off the top of their head.

You are the equivalent of someone watching someone else changing the oil on their car, and then claiming to be an expert mechanic.

Edited February 25, 2013 by submaniac

[Morden]

Chappie, you are making a big assumption if you believe that people here don't know about guns. And no-one is condemning a country.

It's not an assumption. It is an articulation of fact based upon your previous posts and responses.

1. You do not own a gun. Your wife owns a gun.

2. You come from a country which bans civilian handgun ownership, and owerniship of semi-automatic rifles.

3. You posted previously that everyone who doesn't own a gunsafe was irresponsible and should not be allowed to own a gun. Then I pointed out to you that a hunting or targe rifle will have a barrel in excess of 24 inches, making the use of a gunsafe impractical as they would weigh at least 400lbs. I then asked you if you were so knowledgeable about guns, about bullet caliber and grain suitable for hunting whitetail dear, which you avoided responding too. That's actually not a difficult question because anyone who knows guns would know the anwer to that question off the top of their head.

You are the equivalent of someone watching someone else changing the oil on their car, and then claiming to be an expert mechanic.

1. I use the gun and practice at the gun club. That gives me more knowledge and experience than someone who doesn't have access to a gun or does but does use it or practice.

2. Yes, and the UK has had no massacres of children since.

3. Was it you who said that you were too weak to get a gun safe up stairs? Poor excuse for not taking proper precautions. I have no interest in hunting white tailed deer and still would not if we had such creatures here. Therefore I don't need knowledge of such a thing. I need no more knowledge of bullet calibre and grain than I have for our own purposes . I do know that the slaughter of human beings in the US needs some changes.

I'm flattered that you have been interested enough to research my posts but I hope that you won't be stalking me.

Your recent posts suggest that you are somewhat stressed by posts that don't agree with you. Take it easy. Calm down.

The issue is that certain types of weapon are being used for massacres in the US and that clearly suggests something has to change. How would you feel if a child of yours was in the mortuary with four holes in him or her?

Your points are yet another attempt to divert attention from the real issue.

Perhaps you should be grateful that some non-US citizens care more about what's happening than some Americans seem to.

[Chicog]

Monkey see monkey do. The entire thread is a massive circle jerk going around in circles by people who don't know anything about guns condemning a country they don't live in. Whatever they say it doesn't change the fact that Obama doesn't have enough congressional votes to do anything.

"Circle Jerk".

That's a couple of people that seem obsessed with onanism, and they are both on the NRA's side.

Coincidence?

[Scott]

I am done monitoring this thread. Some of you certainly shouldn't have a gun and others shouldn't have fingers to post with.

This has deteriorate to a personal mudslinging match between too many people.

//Closed//