Your Bike Is My Bike, What Would You Have Done?

[arthurwait]

^^ Apologies for the length of this story ... but it's a complex social structure I witnessed, thus needs to be told in it's entirety for better comprehension.

Also it's not maybe a social structure that you, as the single male (or female) adult in a Thai family might witness. Assuming a family unit of you, your wife and your children. With you as the head of the family ... social structure changes.

So, when MissFarmGirl wrote ... "sometimes one person buy but the whole family use" that is exactly what she is saying.

Maybe also the above story may shed a little light on why your older Thai stepson has this attitude to 'his' bike.

Maybe, just maybe he doesn't view it as 'his' bike, but rather an asset over which he has control and is happy to share and lend to all who ask him. This reasoning would explain his actions.

There is a bit of the ole chestnut of 'Thai Face' involved there also as he gains more face as he lends the bike more and more. Again, maybe ... I'm not the stepson.

I'm not trying to change any readers opnion on anything, just provide a story, a social structure and attitude which might explain the older stepsone's attitude to a material object which is in complete contrast to how you and I were raised.

I agree with theblethers approach on how he dealt with his son

But also I was raised the same as smokie36. With my mum's words being ... Johnny, share your toys ... the more you share, the more you have ... presuming of course that others shared their toys also.

It did my head in when I first witnessed the OP's conundrum first hand ... but such is life in Thailand sometimes ...

What I did find was, once the Family was told that something that was 'owned' by me was not to used by others, they generally respected that

... but don't get me started about my food in the fridge ...

.

Blether, how did you get Davids password ?

[Berkshire]

I not understand everything you write but

sometimes one person buy but the whole family use

I know this crazy thinking for you

sorry but this our way, our thinking

Gentlemen, please let me explain something so the about comment is read in perspective.

MissFarmGirl is Thai.

I'm sure she is not trying to change your thinking but more, maybe, understand how Thai people think about some things. Remembering that all Thais don't think the same, they are not the Borg ... or, as she oftens says to me ... Honey, remember, we are all different.

Below, I'll tell a story that relates to the OP and it might put it in a fresh light of understanding.

OH ... if long stories that explain the facts and relationships bore you ... please fast forward to the next comment ...

I've read your stories and found them rather interesting. I've heard of this sort of "communal" living but didn't think it was still happening, much less in Thailand. What I mean is I've heard of stories about something similar happening in an African village years ago. A foreign guy was there doing some sort of research and had a bicycle. Well some villager came out and decided to take the bike for a spin. Startled, the foreign guy screamed to the villager, "Hey, that's my bike!" Several villagers descended on the scene and finally, it was explained to the foreigner: the villager had no concept of ownership. Everything in the village was shared by everyone, so no one really "owns" anything. Hence, the term "my bike" had no meaning to him.

Anyways, related to this thread, I can understand family members sharing stuff, but not random friends and strangers. But if that's what the kid is accustomed to, might take some explaining and hands-on "training." No need to be a blowhard about it, though. Just explain that the world ain't like what John Lennon envisioned--there is such thing as personal "possessions."

[scotsman]

I have a idea it may work when you buy a motor bike and your son wants to use it then he has to leave a deposit of 300 baht a day if the motor bike comes back in one peice then he gets his 300 baht back if its damaged then you fix it with his 300 baht and he will have to find another 300 baht deposit to take it out again may be this way he will learn to lookafter it.

Regards

Scotsman

[theblether]

^^ Apologies for the length of this story ... but it's a complex social structure I witnessed, thus needs to be told in it's entirety for better comprehension.

Also it's not maybe a social structure that you, as the single male (or female) adult in a Thai family might witness. Assuming a family unit of you, your wife and your children. With you as the head of the family ... social structure changes.

So, when MissFarmGirl wrote ... "sometimes one person buy but the whole family use" that is exactly what she is saying.

Maybe also the above story may shed a little light on why your older Thai stepson has this attitude to 'his' bike.

Maybe, just maybe he doesn't view it as 'his' bike, but rather an asset over which he has control and is happy to share and lend to all who ask him. This reasoning would explain his actions.

There is a bit of the ole chestnut of 'Thai Face' involved there also as he gains more face as he lends the bike more and more. Again, maybe ... I'm not the stepson.

I'm not trying to change any readers opnion on anything, just provide a story, a social structure and attitude which might explain the older stepsone's attitude to a material object which is in complete contrast to how you and I were raised.

I agree with theblethers approach on how he dealt with his son

But also I was raised the same as smokie36. With my mum's words being ... Johnny, share your toys ... the more you share, the more you have ... presuming of course that others shared their toys also.

It did my head in when I first witnessed the OP's conundrum first hand ... but such is life in Thailand sometimes ...

What I did find was, once the Family was told that something that was 'owned' by me was not to used by others, they generally respected that

... but don't get me started about my food in the fridge ...

.

Blether, how did you get Davids password ?

Yes I admit I'm having an effect upon fellow posters.

[chrisrazz]

Reading this thread has filled my mind with many past experiences to do with family etc. I don't want to go into specific incidents, yet I share a similar position to the OP. My first impressions, on meeting our 2 lads 17 years ago, remain firmly imprinted in my memory. The elder, nice character, very eager to please and consequently easily manipulated. He completes high school. The younger, smarter, less outgoing, independent and in consequence a bit of a handful. He left school with a year to go. They have both had bikes as gifts from us. Both bikes are gone. Forward to the present. The elder, his wife and daughter live with us, collectively they own nothing, he is constantly getting fooled by others due to his desire to be the nice guy. The younger and his wife have moved on, learned a trade, have their own bike, hi if, tv etc, they make good money for Thailand and look after their hard earned possessions, though, we suspect that the bulk of their money is sent to her parents as they now have a car but no visible income. This is fine, his wife cannot have kids, she is an only child and the family have land etc. I'm not unhappy that the elder is with us, he is a good loving father and he does work around the place, I'd much rather they remain a strong family unit, unlike the majority of cases were the parents leave the village to seek crap jobs and grandma looks after the children, for a fee mind, with resulting parental disconnect, where mum and dad feel guilt and over indulge the kids to the detriment of the grandmas ability to control.

Coming to Thailand, we foreigners have a responsibility not to interfere with the status quo. If you over indulge you are seen as a benchmark, we need to set the example, that though by comparison wealthy, that wealth had to be earned. I can cite many examples of foreigners buggering up their lives, and those close to them, by the desire to show off how 'big' a man they are. The key is not in helping them, but teaching and showing them how to help themselves, and if they are not my immediate family and show no interest in helping themselves they can get lost.

I can cite many examples of foreigners buggering up their lives, and those close to them, by the desire to show off how 'big' a man they are

I could cite many examples of farangs having their lives buggered up by those closest to them, their wife, and her desire to act the mia farang, curry favour, gain face and try to buy status in the village.

Often the poor sap has no idea whats going on around him.

I have stated before about not getting involved witha woman with kids, another example of what not to get involved with is a woman who has a sister/family member married to a farang.

He has set the benchmark,can you compete, are you a Cheap Charlie, black heart etc etc, why you no love me same same him.

I have to say I agree with to a considerable extent. Though you need to be in the situation first, and, then adapt. I was the first foreigner in the village. We came a couple of times a year, made good the family home etc. Then lo and behold, the other village ladies want a piece of this amazing foreigner action (not me btw) and the talk was I'm going to get a richer one and so on. Competitive one up womanship. One women went and got a a foreigner who "is so rich, you can't even look at him", while she was still married. She now knows he's just as much a fraud as she is and I hope they are happy together. To some extent my involvement with a poor Thai family is somewhat responsible for this attitude and the subsequent foreigner arrivals have made the situation even more acute. Those we call friends are married to ladies of their own general age, have taken their wives to live in their home country to see first hand the reality of life in a 'rich' country, their wives speak the husbands language fluently, they work and gain some independence. Those we avoid are with ladies half their age, think they can move to thailand without the wife seeing his culture, he wants and expects a bed partner, cook and nursemaid, she's only with him for the money, add a language barrier that frustrates the relationship further, what is left is a complete sham. Oh yeah, for all you guys, learn some Thai, know when your the subject of conversation, because some of the stuff my wife tells me about these men and their women is often beyond belief.

[TommoPhysicist]

I've always found such stories to be not entirely accurate, the person in question usually has concepts for "his" but is missing the concept for "yours".

Edited February 18, 2013 by TommoPhysicist

[rattler]

Its not what I would do, but I wouldnt have allowed any sharing to start with, share in the family maybe ok and depends who bought the thing? , but if i had financed it I would make it very clear any abuse and Id sell it or even give it away.

But at the back of my mind this is NOT a child, he's 26..............sorry take that back, forgot we are in Thailand.

I like this " one person buy the whole family use" when it breaks do the whole family pay to fix it too????

Sorry rattler but the boy in question is 16 the 26 year old is his older brother as clearly stated in the OP.

AH ok sorry im probably totally lost in the plot, anyway he is learning bad habits!!

[Briggsy]

The Thai Chinese certainly would not be having this, "I need to share your motorbike/car as I haven't got one" rubbish. You want a motorbike, mortgage your rice crop for next year.

I'm already holding a couple of those, not on rice though but these were for extended family not under my roof

That's a start but you really want to get the whole village in hock to you. The first one who misses an instalment, enforce payment using every method possible. This is required as an example to the others. After taking everything they own and indenturing them to labour for the next 5 years, give them back a small token, perhaps a hovel, to show you are compassionate.

Soon you will own every family in the village. If they want something from you, you must have something in return. This is the Thai Chinese way. Do this and they will respect you. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile.

[Pormax]

I agree it isa matter of putting your foot down.

My 15 year old neice (who lives with us) needs a motorbike to go to the new school 25kms away at the start of the new school year. So yesterday we bought a new honda, in my wife's name (as no Thai I believe can own a vehicle until 21or 25 years old).

First though I set out the rules.

1. She has to go and get her licence.

2. If she goes outside the village she must always wear a hemut.

3. Nobody but direct family can use it.

4. It must be left at our house, Not other family's houses when she is not using it.

5. It is her responsibility to keep it clean.

Then she was told that breaking of any of the first 4 rules will mean no motorbike, other than for going to and returning from school, for a month. Second offence 2 months.

Now I await the outcome. hopefully what I have said will get through.

I think it will, because she came home last week saying a friend of hers was very scared to go home as another friend borrowed her motorbike and had an accident, where the bike was seriously damaged and could not be driven home.

I think if given the opportunity a set of rules is the way to go and they might learn there is penalties if the rules are broken which would help them in life anyway.

The op problem is a difficult one and there no easy answer

I have been here 12 years married 8 of them and I am still trying to get to grips with the Thai family way of life but one thing I have noticed and it drives me crazy that they don't seem to have much respect for your stuff when they come for a occasional visit to our house the kids are just wild we have a two story house a and they are up and down in and out of all the rooms bashing you stereo and furniture whilst the adult are sitting round eating and talking with not a care in the world .

Now I can tell you my wife is not happy about it either but after the mayhem has stopped and they have gone back home and we sit and have a quite ( I don't shout anymore its bad for your health) word her response is `` I know but what can I do they are family`` case closed

Now I understand some of this as we go to village now and again and of course its mayhem there as well in fact its even worse as there is more kids there and the house is always busy but of course everybody sits outside on the concrete patio on mats and and there is always many motorbikes there and yes everybody rides them to the local shop which is about 100m away its a free for all

Best of luck the op.

I live out in a village though fortunate most of my wife's family live in BKK. Having said that my son is 8 and he has friends come around to play on the computers.

The new one is MINE and while my son can use it, NOBODY ELSE is allowed on it and the other 2 are older models that they can all use.

In the house the rules are Daddy's rules.

I use a kitchen timer with a maximum of 1 hour on the computer and then off for at least an hour.

There is NO shouting in the house, if you want to shout go outside.

NO running up and down the stairs.

Before you go home pick up and put away ALL the toys.

Any problems Daddy rules on and my word is final.

If you don't like it tell your parents or anybody who you think might care.

If they come and whine to me the answer is that in MY house we use MY rules and I don't care what you do in your house.

If you don't like it, go home, nobody forced you to come here.

It has worked for me for years fortunately because my wife backs me up.

Yes I too have the same mentality as you.

Not always appreciated or understood but the family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules

in my house.

[David48]

Yes I too have the same mentality as you.

Not always appreciated or understood but the family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my house.

Out of curiosity ... wouldn't the statement above be more like ... "but the my family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my our house" ... or is the family really a 3rd party in the social arrangement and it truly your house and your family are simply guests in it?

I understand the concept of wishing to be the alpha male and rule the roost ... but I would prefer to be an inclusive father rather then an exclusive one. Just seems to work better in Thailand ... less conflict and all that.

[His Masters Voice]

Have three treasures which to hold and keep.

The first is mercy, for from mercy comes courage.

The second is frugality, from which comes generosity to others.

The third is humility, for from it comes leadership."

[robblok]

Yes I too have the same mentality as you.

Not always appreciated or understood but the family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my house.

Out of curiosity ... wouldn't the statement above be more like ... "but the my family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my our house" ... or is the family really a 3rd party in the social arrangement and it truly your house and your family are simply guests in it?

I understand the concept of wishing to be the alpha male and rule the roost ... but I would prefer to be an inclusive father rather then an exclusive one. Just seems to work better in Thailand ... less conflict and all that.

Often here if your not the alpha male your all walked over. It of course depends on the family how they are. In some cases you really have to be tough. I was Mr Nice always, believe me it does not help. Better to set rules and stick by them else your setting yourself up for grief.

David, you have never really lived here for a prolonged period or have you ?. I think those who just visit for a while never really see these problems as they usually come later.

All my wive her friends know that i just walk if they are more then half an hour too late (unless there is a real valid excuse). Now i seldom have to wait anymore for people showing up and canceling appointments. Saves me a lot of grief, maybe not as bad if your on a holiday and have all the time int he world and just sometimes encounter the problem. Same with other stuff, you come here for a bit and leave its just not the same.

Then again different people handle situations different I have learned not to let people walk all over me and use culture as an excuse.

[Scottythai]

Yes I too have the same mentality as you.

Not always appreciated or understood but the family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my house.

Out of curiosity ... wouldn't the statement above be more like ... "but the my family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my our house" ... or is the family really a 3rd party in the social arrangement and it truly your house and your family are simply guests in it?

I understand the concept of wishing to be the alpha male and rule the roost ... but I would prefer to be an inclusive father rather then an exclusive one. Just seems to work better in Thailand ... less conflict and all that.

I see what you are saying but when it comes to some posessions you have to draw a line. In the case of teh bike the OP sounds like a very sharing and giving guy who will let his step son use teh bike. But it also seems like he is getting taken on a serious ride. As he is the owner and will pay for all the repairs would you not want to claim some ownership for the bike? Or would you find everyone who rode it in the last month and hold out a hat for repair donations? I would find the hat woul dbe quite empty compares to the wear and tear on the bike.

No on the other side I think some of the posters you quoted are coming off a bit hard. Maybe it was the way they were brought up or maybe they have had stuff miss treated and wish to rectify this by inforcing the rules. I for one have a nice bike and I let some people use it. But it goes out with the ideals of return it as it was lent to you or you will pay the cost. One thing about posting sometimes its hard to tell the mood of the poster when its just words on a screen.

[jambco984]

Yes I too have the same mentality as you.

Not always appreciated or understood but the family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my house.

Out of curiosity ... wouldn't the statement above be more like ... "but the my family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my our house" ... or is the family really a 3rd party in the social arrangement and it truly your house and your family are simply guests in it?

I understand the concept of wishing to be the alpha male and rule the roost ... but I would prefer to be an inclusive father rather then an exclusive one. Just seems to work better in Thailand ... less conflict and all that.

I see what you are saying but when it comes to some posessions you have to draw a line. In the case of teh bike the OP sounds like a very sharing and giving guy who will let his step son use teh bike. But it also seems like he is getting taken on a serious ride. As he is the owner and will pay for all the repairs would you not want to claim some ownership for the bike? Or would you find everyone who rode it in the last month and hold out a hat for repair donations? I would find the hat woul dbe quite empty compares to the wear and tear on the bike.

No on the other side I think some of the posters you quoted are coming off a bit hard. Maybe it was the way they were brought up or maybe they have had stuff miss treated and wish to rectify this by inforcing the rules. I for one have a nice bike and I let some people use it. But it goes out with the ideals of return it as it was lent to you or you will pay the cost. One thing about posting sometimes its hard to tell the mood of the poster when its just words on a screen.

I must admit my post came off as pretty narky but I assure I was not trying to be rude.

Like you said it goes out with the ideals of return it as it was lent to you. These are near on my sentiments only I tell everyone

You break it, you pay for it. I get a smile ok ok ok and off they go, no problems as yet

[TheWalkingMan]

Get him a bicycle. Good for health and the environment.

[robblok]

Ill give a few examples of what being Mr Nice gets me.

I loan out my small motorbike to my wifes brother when he is doing odd jobs near our place. I never ask him to fill it up i always pay. So a few times I ended up with no fuel, other times i have given him money only to find the bike not to be filled up to what i thought it should be, did it again to test with sufficient money to fill it up completely 120 bt. Get half a tank, told him that i don't like him cheating me and next time he should fill the bike up himself. Also had the bike returned with a flat. So now im a lot less nice.

Had him mind the house while we were away... result liquor cabinet plundered and wifes small money gone. Some sad story that he fell and needed money to go to the Dr. Later found out it was not like that. Wife of course does not like this and feels real ashamed, she already told me to be more tough. I never had a problem loaning stuff before but repaying kindness with small teft is stupid.

It of course depends on the persons in a family but in general many Thais don't think of action and result or tomorrow. With these kind of types you have to be tough or else you loose.

We are lucky that her brother has upset some people here in the village now and won't be doing odd jobs anymore (his loss he was making ok money) our win as we wont see him anymore and don't have to refuse him. Sometimes being nice helps.. sometimes it does not.

Before all of this i was thinking of buying the guy some tools so he could make more money, gf already said it was a bad idea that the tools might be pawned or sold or not taken care off. After this i believe her.. but in general i like to be able to be nice to family and help them. But i hate it when i get taken advantage of and i won't loan money once you start that its the end.

Edited February 19, 2013 by robblok

[David48]

Yes I too have the same mentality as you.

Not always appreciated or understood but the family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my house.

Out of curiosity ... wouldn't the statement above be more like ... "but the my family are beginning to understand and accept that I set the rules in my our house" ... or is the family really a 3rd party in the social arrangement and it truly your house and your family are simply guests in it?

I understand the concept of wishing to be the alpha male and rule the roost ... but I would prefer to be an inclusive father rather then an exclusive one. Just seems to work better in Thailand ... less conflict and all that.

I see what you are saying but when it comes to some posessions you have to draw a line. In the case of teh bike the OP sounds like a very sharing and giving guy who will let his step son use teh bike. But it also seems like he is getting taken on a serious ride. As he is the owner and will pay for all the repairs would you not want to claim some ownership for the bike? Or would you find everyone who rode it in the last month and hold out a hat for repair donations? I would find the hat woul dbe quite empty compares to the wear and tear on the bike.

No on the other side I think some of the posters you quoted are coming off a bit hard. Maybe it was the way they were brought up or maybe they have had stuff miss treated and wish to rectify this by inforcing the rules. I for one have a nice bike and I let some people use it. But it goes out with the ideals of return it as it was lent to you or you will pay the cost. One thing about posting sometimes its hard to tell the mood of the poster when its just words on a screen.

Hi Scottythai ... just to pick up on one point.

I was replying to the post from Pormax ... not to that from the OP.

You can almost imagine he is Moses on the Mountain and dictating the Pormax commandants. Thou shall not in my house …

Where ever happened to you and your wife being in a partnership in which you both contribute?

You can have a strong presence without having to dominate the landscape.

BTW ... you make some valid points above in relation to what the Opening Post contains ...

Edited February 19, 2013 by David48

[David48]

David, you have never really lived here for a prolonged period or have you ?. I think those who just visit for a while never really see these problems as they usually come later.

You know ... some people can see more in a day then others can in a year ... or a lifetime.

Not referring to you of course ... ... I still remember your postings when the big flood was on a few years back.

In a direct answer to your question, I'm not to sure what a 'prolonged period' is (mileage varies), but of the past 12 months I spent close to 6 of those in Thailand. Had to get a new Passport recently ... counted 15 trips to the Kingdom.

[robblok]

David, you have never really lived here for a prolonged period or have you ?. I think those who just visit for a while never really see these problems as they usually come later.

You know ... some people can see more in a day then others can in a year ... or a lifetime.

Not referring to you of course ... ... I still remember your postings when the big flood was on a few years back.

In a direct answer to your question, I'm not to sure what a 'prolonged period' is (mileage varies), but of the past 12 months I spent close to 6 of those in Thailand. Had to get a new Passport recently ... counted 15 trips to the Kingdom.

David, not to put you down and you are right some people see more in a day then others in a year or lifetime. I lead a pretty easy life and others might see a lot more. I am working a lot still so that takes time.

But my point is more (i assume and it can be a ####p to assume) that you don't have a house here or a place that you call your own. I guess your more or less here as a guest or in temporary rented places. This is is of course totally different from living here and seeing your stuff get abused.

That is my view of course its always different when you really are here for a prolonged period without going back. It took me a year or more to leave holiday mode behind me (even though i had been in Thailand often). In general that first period your much more forgiving and you really open your eyes after really living here. Most expats that live here will agree with this and most that don't will not agree.

This is just my view and i can be wrong in my views.

To add.. i had a nice delta angle grinder from Holland, loaned it out.. only to get it back broken. Its not the cost, its just hard to replace. Experiences like that just teach you to be more careful with your stuff and being alpha dog setting demands to make sure it does not happen again. If you are too easy your often taken for a fool.

Edited February 19, 2013 by robblok

[impulse]

Ill give a few examples of what being Mr Nice gets me.

All true stories, I believe. But for each of those stories I can give another from my (extended) childhood where the neighbors loaned me something, gave me something, let me do something or took me somewhere, and I screwed up, And each time, the neighbor who was put out showed me where I was wrong and steered me on a path to a better man. I'll never forget a lot of those lessons, though they probably forgave and forgot my indiscretions the next day. The loss was never more than a few bucks, but the lessons I learned were worth more to the neighbors, who had kids of their own, transgressing on my parents- and learning,

I'm not suggesting to put your financial well being in jeopardy, but as adults, we can have a bigger effect on local neighborhood kids than we may think. Are some of the neighbor kids going to abuse a kindness? Yeah, probably. But a lot of them will reflect back on what they have done wrong and come away better for it.

I'm not a Hillary fan (though she is growing on me), but she got it right when she said "It takes a village to raise a child" Sorry if that's a misquote- but the gist is there.

Or you can take the path of the cold, sterile fenced off subdivision neighborhoods today, and leave raising and nurturing the kids to the "pros" who have been doing a not-so-wonderful job IMHO. Keep your goodies locked up and out of reach of everyone who isn't authorized and...

[David48]

Where did I live this past time? ... I explained it here ... and in the next 4 posts

How do I view life in Thailand ... a small snapshot can be read here ... and the following pages there after.

[maxme]

Where did I live this past time? ... I explained it here ... and in the next 4 posts

How do I view life in Thailand ... a small snapshot can be read here ... and the following pages there after.

People view Thailand from different perspectives depending on several factors... such as family, friendship circel and even geography. What may be true for one may be false for another.

The mind set of Thais vary depending where you are but mostly because of who you hang out with.

David lives the same way as a majority of Thais do, so to me he is a valid source.

[robblok]

Where did I live this past time? ... I explained it here ... and in the next 4 posts

How do I view life in Thailand ... a small snapshot can be read here ... and the following pages there after.

Ok David, seems like a lot of communal property but still now your own stuff being used and abused. Anyway i really take of my hat for you as I could not live like that but it explains a lot of your GF's feelings and idea's. Here people do live a lot more independent GF is BKK based and so is her family though that does not mean everyone is good (look at her brother).

How they live and think is a lot more closer to what i think is normal (for me) so that is the kind of girls and kind of families i would prefer to hang out with. I am pretty sure i would not enjoy a situation like yours. But if you are ok with it then good, but everyone is different and there are different Thais with different values around to choose from.

Still I keep to my values and my gf wanted me and I am foreign so she has to adapt and i adapt a bit to her. Its not like foreigner should adapt 100% both go half way. Same for the family if they say but this is the Thai way.. my answer but I am not Thai (if it conflicts with my ideas). I see no reason to give up my identity or to accept everything because its the Thai way (as there is not 1 Thai way but its often used as an excuse)

[robblok]

Ill give a few examples of what being Mr Nice gets me.

All true stories, I believe. But for each of those stories I can give another from my (extended) childhood where the neighbors loaned me something, gave me something, let me do something or took me somewhere, and I screwed up, And each time, the neighbor who was put out showed me where I was wrong and steered me on a path to a better man. I'll never forget a lot of those lessons, though they probably forgave and forgot my indiscretions the next day. The loss was never more than a few bucks, but the lessons I learned were worth more to the neighbors, who had kids of their own, transgressing on my parents- and learning,

I'm not suggesting to put your financial well being in jeopardy, but as adults, we can have a bigger effect on local neighborhood kids than we may think. Are some of the neighbor kids going to abuse a kindness? Yeah, probably. But a lot of them will reflect back on what they have done wrong and come away better for it.

I'm not a Hillary fan (though she is growing on me), but she got it right when she said "It takes a village to raise a child" Sorry if that's a misquote- but the gist is there.

Or you can take the path of the cold, sterile fenced off subdivision neighborhoods today, and leave raising and nurturing the kids to the "pros" who have been doing a not-so-wonderful job IMHO. Keep your goodies locked up and out of reach of everyone who isn't authorized and...

Thing is if the mistakes were not repeated or it did not got worse id probably go on being nice but there was no improvement. So here the tough line works. Power is respected here just look how people bow to their superiors here. Being too weak does not get you much in Thailand just look how the culture is here and how those in power behave. They use their power and are still respected, look at all the weak farangs that end up dead once their GF has scammed them out of all of his money because he was too trusting.

I tried a did not work now i try B they can't get a thing anymore. Abuse my trust and you loose it, be good and get rewarded.

I bet you showed some improvement or else they would have given up on you too.

[barky]

I not understand everything you write but

sometimes one person buy but the whole family use

I know this crazy thinking for you

sorry but this our way, our thinking

No you didn't understand. He said clearly that the vast majority of people who were riding the bike were NOT family!

[canuckamuck]

I find that if you put up a fuss over little things, they hesitate over asking to use more important items.

Yes it makes you look like a tightwad, but does that matter?

Also, you should have your own bike and make sure it is a tall one so most of them can't ride it anyhow.

If there needs be a community bike, there are plenty of older models around that will give you a few years and you won't lose any sleep over them.

[David48]

Any chance the OP wants to re-visit and share what was decided to do?

I'd love to know what was decided.

[teacher17]

In Thailand, I do think it's more common for people to "borrow" things. My example is, though not about a motorbike, is...my BF had a nice guitar and let his friend borrow it. Then, without asking my BF, his friend let another friend borrow it (someone we did not know). That friend ended up letting ANOTHER friend borrow it...aaaand we haven't seen it since. In the west, we would consider this stealing...but my BF just shrugged and said he'd just get another one. I, on the other hand, was pretty angry that his "friend" would lose it....although the BF said his friend gave him 1,000 baht for losing it...which is ridiculous, because the guitar cost at least 8,000 bath.

Also, my sandals keep on turning up at my BF's mother's house...borrowing shoes without asking...quite normal I guess. Bit annoying though...

As for a motorbike...we do let family members use out motorbike, but usually they let us know first. If a friend asks to borrow a motorbike for 5 minutes, we'll let them. But if it's someone we don't know, no way. Sounds like your step-son basically let ANYONE use it...which I would put a stop to. You never know (as in the case of my BF's guitar) who may end up not returning it....

[joey88tc]

people out there will except 100% of our money, but also dont want to accept any of our values or beleifs

[OxfordWill]

Thais will share one bike with their family and friends and refusing to do so would probably be akin to a mild social suicide for the young man