EDITORIAL

Concern about social norms on fringe of law

The Nation

Police officers' demands for 'ang pao' at the end of a slippery slope

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In a way, Chalerm Yoobamrung is right. Police demands for Chinese New Year "gifts" from business people are normal, or even traditional. He nonchalantly dismissed a security camera footage showing three cops seeking "ang pao" from an Indian tailor as something totally acceptable. To add to what Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit.

Supporters of the deputy prime minister may consider him to be pragmatic. It's a "tradition" and who are we to change tradition, end of story. And when Chalerm, who supervises the Royal Thai Police, is of that opinion, who are we to argue? Society may have to agree with Chalerm that the only mistake the three policemen made was to demand "ang pao", or Chinese New Year giveaways, from an Indian.

When the line between extortion and bribery is blurred, or when we are not sure whether it's either of them or a combination, let's call it a traditional gift. And if it is all right for police to get the gifts from Chinese business people during their New Year, maybe Thai police can raid Western-based corporate headquarters during Christmas and Indian communities during their festivals. Now that gift-taking is tradition in Chalerm's eyes, probably we should go all the way.

Make no mistake. Police seeking "ang pao" from a tailor is less controversial than those getting "paid" by brothel owners or gambling den operators. However, whether or not the "ang pao" mission is part of the learning curve remains to be seen. Obviously, Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm does not believe that the three cops in the Indian shop will grow more audacious in the future.

The three policemen are a product of a system plagued with such traditions. In Chalerm's opinion, doing away with the practice is impossible. He suggested that it takes two to tango, but he seemed to overlook the fundamental why business people have to present gifts to the authorities in the first place. In other words, while it has become a "tradition" among the businessmen, it likely used to be downright extortion in the past.

Whatever it used to be, it doesn't matter now. Or so Chalerm believes. He even asked the media not to get carried away and play up the story. It was by no means extortion, he insisted. According to the deputy prime minister, if you condemn the three cops' behaviour, you condemn a social norm. Police, with the exception of some low-ranking rotten apples, are enjoying a good image, and the media must not slap the entire force with a bad stereotype, he said.

In fact, Chalerm doesn't have to worry too much. The "gift-seeking" story will disappear from the media soon, if it has not already. Some "punishment" may have been handed down on the three policemen and that will be it. While the public may see deep-rooted corruption as the crux of the matter, Chalerm is thinking differently. There is no need to overhaul the police, he stressed.

Where does this leave us? Obviously, it leaves us in a society that is no different today from the moment the three cops entered the tailor's shop a few days ago. It's no different because nothing happened then that needs to be fixed now. In the eyes of someone who arguably matters most, the three men were just "observing a tradition".

Only in Thailand can something found lying at the bottom of a slippery slope be called a social norm. The Indian shop visit was physically harmless and there was no obvious intimidation involved, so Chalerm see no needs to remedy the system. We are left wondering if many of our politicians in power, who are former police, used to give "ang pao" to visiting police or receive some when they were wearing the uniform. "Tradition", after all, is something that has been practised for a long while.

-- The Nation 2013-02-17

I think our beloved PM Yingluck "I am the real PM" Shinawatra, should reconsider her stance on her position. After all, Chalerm is not the only one in her Cabinet, that shares these Ideologies. I think she would serve herself better as the "Puppet".

"He even asked the media not to get carried away and play up the story. It was by no means extortion, he insisted"

Another request from the big C not to report the news if it contradicts his way of thinking. Get the feeling there would be no free press if he had his way. Dangerous, mad and corrupt to the core. Scary man for all his clownish behaviours and ridiculous statements.

Concern about social norms on fringe of law

Fringe? this sort of behaviour is smack bang at the centre of the law.

This is what you get when the 3 stooges run the show

It's a bit like people who eat a lot of garlic who don't notice the smell. Chalerm is so corrupt himself that the stench of corruption becomes undetectable, a "social norm".

OTOH even if he recognised it, the last thing he wants is a clean up of the RTP, because he knows exactly where that would lead - looking at "unusually wealthy" BIB members and ex-members. And who's the most ostentatious.

In the meantime, in other developments, it seems that Thai folks have lost the edge on bursting in to laughter for the slightest reason, talking incessantly about food being 'aroi' in the lift after lunch - or any time for that matter - and in general never facing reality.

The other newspaper sites a survey stating that Thai's now rank a lowly 12th in the world sanuk ratings,

Which is surprising given the fact that Chalerm is a first rate comedian.

So its the social norm for police officers to extort funds from business operators, perhaps next week summary executions of those business operators who do not pay up will be the social norm, how far will calling criminal activities the social norm go?

This is what you get when the 3 stooges run the show

If only there were just the 3.

This is what you get when the 3 stooges run the show

If only there were just the 3.

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

Social norms.... Is that something you made up in Thailand???? To my knowledge there is just SOCIAL STATUS AND FACE, so don't you ever talk about Social norms in Thailand...

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

No, he represents the LACK of law and order in this country, when the top cop comes out with the dribble he does you really do need to wonder how far down he and his kind will take this country.

We are left wondering if many of our politicians in power, who are former police, used to give "ang pao" to visiting police or receive some when they were wearing the uniform. "Tradition", after all, is something that has been practised for a long while

No need to wonder Mr. Editor, you already know the answer.

Social norm.......

What a phrase.

This isnt a slippery slope

The officers in that picture looked mincing and arrogant

The public show from Chalerm Yoobamrung implies complicitness

The "officers" willingness to ask for money in front of customers shows no fear of repercussion

No the slope isnt slippery,

the slope is vertical

How you can even try to compare the present Thai 'social norms' or 'fringe of the law' to the real world, is beyond me.

The one thing I will give the Thai government credit for, they have managed to take the various concepts of government "checks and balances" from other countries, twist and turn it to every purpose, but that, for which it was orginally designed, Then find enough unethical people to implement/explain it, and a voting population who seemly could give a rats arse less. that this is considered a joke by the real world.

The moment that Chalerm's son Duangchalerm shot an off-duty Policeman in an RCA nightclub was a litmus test for Thai justice and on a broader spread; Thai society.

It failed.

Sure, it had happened many times before; the rich dodging justice (murderous dictators, Prime Minister's family etc) but Thais thought that their society was changing for the better. It hasn't. If anything it has been festering and getting worse. With the advent of social media, we can now see the clear inequalities in Thai society, the failings of the Police and the justice system, and the apparent silent approval for unethical and immoral behaviour.

That this thuggish oaf has risen to become Deputy Prime Minister is not a mistake, it's not a one off; it's the end product of a system within a society that has failed it's people.

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Concern about social norms on fringe of law

Fringe? this sort of behaviour is smack bang at the centre of the law.

Social Norms covers a multitude of sins. A friend who is a member of a dating site was asked by a Thai lady if he was married as it was " against Thai tradition to get involved with a married man " ! Whatever next ?

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

No, he represents the LACK of law and order in this country, when the top cop comes out with the dribble he does you really do need to wonder how far down he and his kind will take this country.

and be allowed to by an ambivalent electorate to busy with other things to care.

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

No, he represents the LACK of law and order in this country, when the top cop comes out with the dribble he does you really do need to wonder how far down he and his kind will take this country.

He does have one good asset. He IS level headed to some degree, even if it's the wrong degree, as he dribbles from both sides of his mouth ..

-mel.

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

Yes, I can.

Traditional Extortion, a 'social norm", or a new form of extortion.

It is STILL EXTORTION by the police, who ostensibly

in most lands are tasked to stop extortion.

Indian shop owner:

a )

Either I pay them and get robbed a little regularly,

or

b )

when I get robbed big, they don't show up fast,

and when they do, they are more likely to find the culprit,.

and split the take with them, and do this every time from now on.

Edited February 17, 201313 yr by animatic

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

An unfortunate comment considering his son's previous.

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

An unfortunate comment considering his son's previous.

A Freudian slip showing in a big way.

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

Chalerm didn't say the part you have underlined, the reporter did. The reporter said "to add to what Chalerm said a little bit,' the phrase following was his opinion.

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

No, he represents the LACK of law and order in this country, when the top cop comes out with the dribble he does you really do need to wonder how far down he and his kind will take this country.

Chalerm didn't say it, the writer of the editorial said those words. It was his opinion. It wasn't Chalerm's drivel.

"... Chalerm said a little bit, the shop owner should consider himself to be lucky that no gun was pointed to his head during the visit."

Can anyone believe this idiot running the Thai Police? T.i.T. And HE represents law and order???

An unfortunate comment considering his son's previous.

A Freudian slip showing in a big way.

Definitely no Freudian slip, he didn't say it. Read the sentence again.

Wonder why Chalerm declined the offer of 'tae-ear' from Chuwit. He said he had about enough to live.what does about enough means?