Under The Table Payments In Thailand Alleged To Have Grown From 5-10% To A Minimum Of 30%

[Carioca]

One can either play the thai way or, as in the west, eliminate corruption by paying government officials such exorbitant salaries and pensions that its in their best interest to NOT steal.

[Pimay1]

One can either play the thai way or, as in the west, eliminate corruption by paying government officials such exorbitant salaries and pensions that its in their best interest to NOT steal.

I can only speak for the US. Exorbitant salaries and pensions do not slow down the corruption of the politions there. If requested I can supply many examples.

[scotto]

With all the western companies setting up in thailand and doing business here i wonder how many

of them factor in the 30% graft?

If they have not factored it in to do business here how long will they stay when they get asked all the time?

Could be a big mistake for thai companies and the government, ie no foreign employers no work for thai people?

I no there are many foreign businesses here already but how many actually like paying these theiving bastards

and with the pay hikes paying off crooks it might no longer seem favourable to do business here and pack up

and move back to their home countries?

just wondering.

[Pormax]

So it reported a corruption level of 30%.

Never is the truth written.

So change that to 35 or 40% and that will be more realistic.

Don't expect any change in Thailand.

[EyesWideOpen]

I have always heard the number of 10% , I am a bit surprised at the number of30%..... I have always thought in Asia there are two levels of corruption.

One is sustainable , around 10%. Contractors figure this in and more or less work with it. Sort of like a leach draining away your blood. A bit painful, but workable. But when the corruption number raises higher, such as 30 % or 50%, then the whole system collapses. I call this non functional corruption, where in essence the parasite kills the host. I think that is what Thailand is headed towards sadly. What company in their right mind would locate here knowing 30% of whatever you do here is sucked away by the leeches????

[Beetlejuice]

Institutionalised corruption in Thailand has been prevalent since the Stone Age, it`s almost a cultural thing and it will not be easy for the Thais to change their habits of a lifetime.

The only way to defeat this problem is through the International business communities, if and when Thailand expands into the worldwide markets where business deals by corruption would not be tolerated. Other than that and if left up to they’re own devices, no, nothing will change.

[DiNiro]

The shameless behavior I witness make me think the 'saving face' thing is a farce.

Is 'face' just an excuse to go ballistic when caught?

[Carioca]

One can either play the thai way or, as in the west, eliminate corruption by paying government officials such exorbitant salaries and pensions that its in their best interest to NOT steal.

I can only speak for the US. Exorbitant salaries and pensions do not slow down the corruption of the politions there. If requested I can supply many examples.

Yes, you are exactly right, but importantly, it gives the politicians a whipping boy --government employees-- to draw attention away from their graft. Also it does legitimize graft which enables the US to preach to others.

[Thailand1977]

One can either play the thai way or, as in the west, eliminate corruption by paying government officials such exorbitant salaries and pensions that its in their best interest to NOT steal.

I can only speak for the US. Exorbitant salaries and pensions do not slow down the corruption of the politions there. If requested I can supply many examples.

Yes we've just altered the game so much that making millions to tens of millions from govt contracts is legal.

Crony capitalism.

[Puccini]

“I am an industrialist. I cannot stand anymore because we have to pay under the table so much money," he said. "Before, all right you have to accept that before it was about five and ten per cent. But now it’s a minimum 30 per cent - minimum is 30 per cent."

From 5% to 30%, this is called progress.

Corruption in Asia continues to be a drag on growing economies, draining billions of dollars from economic development and triggering a public backlash in some places

My prediction is that it will have to get a lot worse until there is a public backlash in Thailand. Many years to go, I think, if not decades.

[Puccini]

“I am an industrialist. I cannot stand anymore because we have to pay under the table so much money," he said. "Before, all right you have to accept that before it was about five and ten per cent. But now it’s a minimum 30 per cent - minimum is 30 per cent."

From 5% to 30%, this is called progress.

Corruption in Asia continues to be a drag on growing economies, draining billions of dollars from economic development and triggering a public backlash in some places

My prediction is that it will have to get a lot worse until there is a public backlash in Thailand. Many years to go, I think, if not decades.

[Jawnie]

Many under-cover sting operations are needed. Until Thailand undertakes those, it will not change. Throughout all the discussions and news reports I've seen, I've never once heard anyone in the government or private industry propose under-cover operations and stings. They work.

[Buchholz]

Many under-cover sting operations are needed. Until Thailand undertakes those, it will not change. Throughout all the discussions and news reports I've seen, I've never once heard anyone in the government or private industry propose under-cover operations and stings. They work.

Farang have worked undercover in Thailand. Quite successfully (and pleasing to the undercover volunteer), at that.

PATTAYA VOLUNTEER POLICE INDULGE IN UZBEK STING OPERATION

Undercover Pattaya Tourist Police pretend to solicit sex from foreign women. Four women from Republic of Uzbekistan were arrested.

On the 22nd May 2007, at 02:30 am, Pol. Lt. Col. Withichart Luensukan, Tourist Police Inspector of Pattaya, and his team, planned an operation to nab Uzbek Prostitutes around the night time entertainment areas. The undercover Pattaya Tourist Police officers managed to arrest four ladies who were offering their services.

The foreign undercover officers made arrangements with the four Uzbek women for sexual services at the Pattaya Inn Hotel.

When the love making sessions were concluded, the prostitutes asked for 2,000 baht each.

The undercover representatives gave a total of 8,000 baht to the women, and the police placed them under arrest.

http://www.thaivisa....n-uzbeki-girls/

[slapout]

maybe, just maybe ifthe real numbers are put to the rank and file, where it equates to baht that is stolen they will begen to comprehend.

OK, give 30+% off the top of budget (90 billion US) for corruption (cabinet, MP's etc).

Contractors, agents, etc will skim 10% via commission, substandard or shorting material, etc.

Then the local civil servents charge 10% to do what they are paid to do, in a timely manner.

The RTP are a institutional unto themselves, who knows what they end up with on the local level.

Now a budget of 90 billion US, loses 30 billion, up front to corruption

Another 10% goes to contractors/middlemen, etc

Another 10% is paid by working/taxpaying public in dealings with the civil servants

Add a little for the BIB, including rewards for drugs which are seized, property, etc

Now that rounds off (without BIB local tea money) to about 40 billion US. With a population of 75 million people, thats a lot of money that each family is being screwed out of, even if they are paid 500 baht to vote.

[NoshowJones]

What's new here ?

There isn't a single clean millionaire in this country .

All corrupt to the bone.

There isn't a single clean millionaire in any country, that's why they are millionaires in the first place.

[OzMick]

What's new here ?

There isn't a single clean millionaire in this country .

All corrupt to the bone.

There isn't a single clean millionaire in any country, that's why they are millionaires in the first place.

I have been a millionaire in quite a few different countries - Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia and others with crap currency - without resorting to corruption.

[NoshowJones]

What's new here ?

There isn't a single clean millionaire in this country .

All corrupt to the bone.

There isn't a single clean millionaire in any country, that's why they are millionaires in the first place.

I have been a millionaire in quite a few different countries - Cambodia, Laos, Indonesia and others with crap currency - without resorting to corruption.

I should have said a millionaire in British Pounds.

[Thai at Heart]

With all the western companies setting up in thailand and doing business here i wonder how many

of them factor in the 30% graft?

If they have not factored it in to do business here how long will they stay when they get asked all the time?

Could be a big mistake for thai companies and the government, ie no foreign employers no work for thai people?

I no there are many foreign businesses here already but how many actually like paying these theiving bastards

and with the pay hikes paying off crooks it might no longer seem favourable to do business here and pack up

and move back to their home countries?

just wondering.

The really big boys coming in here take strategic partnerships or employ strategic employees at high levels to insulate themselves from this mess. Paying a bit here or there to get licenses done, etc, is hardly ever going to break the bank, it is when someone comes along and actually enforces the law about your emmission standards, or waste, or employment practices and threatens to close you down that it gets your attention.

So, the foreign companies largely comply with or exceed the regulations, so no one really ever comes down on them like a ton of bricks, or they are strategically partnered with massive Thai companies in say the chemicals industry that NO ONE dares to mess with.

[GazR]

To the best of my knowledge, the former head of the Foreign Chambers of Commerce was the first to publicly state that - under the current government - corruption had reached dizzying new heights (well, as high as Chatchai's infamous "buffet cabinet" anyway) of 30%.

So now you know why they now call 'him' Mister Thirty Percent, not Square-Face.

[MongersSyndicate]

Farang have worked undercover in Thailand. Quite successfully (and pleasing to the undercover volunteer), at that.

Farangs come to Thailand for all what it has to offer, not realizing that it is all mostly due to the corruption and careless attitudes that they like to despise.

If Thailand was moralizing and corruption-free it would basically be like Malaysia, one of the most boring countries in Asia and its just next door.

So instead of playing "upholder fo the law", adopting moralizing stances and trying to "straighten up" Thailand, the "knights in armor" guys could do themselves and us all a favor and move to Malaysia instead.

But wait... no corruption, no feudalim and enforcement of family-dad-morality also means no pussy (even for free)... You can't have your cake and eat it.

[Buchholz]

Farang have worked undercover in Thailand. Quite successfully (and pleasing to the undercover volunteer), at that.

Farangs come to Thailand for all what it has to offer, not realizing that it is all mostly due to the corruption and careless attitudes that they like to despise.

If Thailand was moralizing and corruption-free it would basically be like Malaysia, one of the most boring countries in Asia and its just next door.

So instead of playing "upholder fo the law", adopting moralizing stances and trying to "straighten up" Thailand, the "knights in armor" guys could do themselves and us all a favor and move to Malaysia instead.

But wait... no corruption, no feudalim and enforcement of family-dad-morality also means no pussy (even for free)... You can't have your cake and eat it.

Not much chance for Thailand to be considered "boring" when as a part of one's official duties, one gets to consummate a tryst with a hooker... and then busts her.

.

[Tatsujin]

"alleged" lmfao

[DekDaeng]

What Thai folks fail to realize is that every satang that is paid in bribes is coming out of their pockets - every bridge, every mile of road, every public building, every piece of infrastructure is taking money out of the citizens' pockets and putting into the pockets of crooks. I saw the Bangkok post today talking of the bidding for part of the proposed Red Line was under scrutiny because the two companies bidding for part of it had the same members of their boards.

It will never end.

It's worse than that. The projects that get 'done' are the ones that are engineered for easy under the table payments - irrespective of whether or not they are the ones that are most in the public interest. Look at Pattayas proposed tunnels under Sukhumvit. Why go underground? Because underground costs 3 times more than above ground!

And when it all falls apart in five years eg Bali Hai pier, built with raw rebar & iron - over salt water! then there is no come back, because the contractors have the perfect defense - "I sent x mill baht to yr swiss a/c so shut TF up!"

[hellodolly]

A friend of mine in the school supply business tells me the bastards steal 35% of the school budget.

Not surprised really.

And misapply 70% of the rest.