Thaivisa Poll: Should Thaksin Stay?

[george]

Abac poll: Thaksin should stay

BANGKOK: -- A new public opinion poll by the Abac Poll Centre provides strong support for Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra to resist calls to resign, and remain as leader of the Thai Rak Thai Party.

The poll, conducted on Saturday among 1,284 people 18 and over, in and around Bangkok, found 47.5% believed Mr Thaksin should not end his political career - while 28.9% said he should.

A majority of 54.5% agreed Mr Thaksin should retain leadership of the Thai Rak Thai Party, while just 14.4% disagreed, saying that either caretaker Deputy Prime Minister and Commerce Minister Somkid Jatusripitak, Agriculture and Cooperatives Minister Khunying Sudarat Keyuraphan or former deputy prime minister Purachai Piumsombun should assume the post of party leadership.

Opinions were more mixed on Mr Thaksin's sincerity. Just 38.1% believed he was sincere, and almost one in four - 28.4 percent --did not believe in his sincerity.

The poll also found that 50.7% were concerned about the falling economy, the possibility of a coup d'etat and terrorism resulting from political turmoil, while 29.7% said they were unconcerned.

--TNA 2006-03-05

[gurkle]

The polls also predicted that George Bush was going to lose - whoops!

Edited March 5, 2006 by gurkle

[britmaveric]

In a democratic fashion (election) - Yes!!!

[george]

Thanks for voting!

Tonight's Thaivisa LIVE event was here FYI:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=62126

[jdinasia]

I am glad that we "the farang" don't get a vote. I for one think in terms of long term strengthening of Thai democracy. But i think in terms from the West. This is a completely different culture. Thank goodness the Thai people have a wise and benevolent King that has very much stayed above politics so much that when he does speak; the people listen!

[WISteve]

Well said, jdinasia!

It is not our place to be making these decisions for the Thai people.

Or a mob in the park.

Or a band of self-proclaimed experts, i.e. a group of university intellectuals.

It is in the hands of the electorate. As it should be.

~WISteve

[jdinasia]

a peaceful demonstration exercising the right of peaceful assembly is not a mob

the 'self-proclaimed" experts are not just university intellectuals. They are also commited members of the senate ... business leaders ... members of the royal family etc.

quit thinking this is the USA .. it is not.

[lukamar]

a peaceful demonstration exercising the right of peaceful assembly is not a mob

Beg to differ with you on that... When they refuse to follow democratic principles and withdraw from an election with the sole purpose of disrupting the lawful democratic process of that election, they are nothing more than a mob.

Edited March 6, 2006 by lukamar

[No beleeeeve!]

<<<Well said, jdinasia!

It is not our place to be making these decisions for the Thai people.

Or a mob in the park.

Or a band of self-proclaimed experts, i.e. a group of university intellectuals.

It is in the hands of the electorate. As it should be.>>>

And where did these "mob" people come from? Or the others you mention?

"the electorate" just as you said.

We are here on a forum...a place to discuss things. So, this is EXACTLY where we should be bantering this about. If one cannot use a forum to debate issues big and small, then what is a forum for?

To spout PC statements all day, never offending a soul, and at the same time, never saying anything of substance or interest???

So, we will continue to discuss things that occur in Thailand.

[Thaising]

I doubt this time the abac poll dared to report it accurate.

International Freedom of Exchange March Edition; It appears that Thaksin's popularity is also on the wane, according to a opinion poll released in February. Shortly after the poll was released Assumption University's Abac Poll team were surprised to receive a series of visits from high-ranking military officers and Special Branch police.

[moonoi]

a peaceful demonstration exercising the right of peaceful assembly is not a mob

Beg to differ with you on that... When they refuse to follow democratic principles and withdraw from an election with the sole purpose of disrupting the lawful democratic process of that election, they are nothing more than a mob.

Actually it is upholding democratic priniciples

The people have a democratic right to protest, and likewise the politcal parties have a democratic right not to enter the election. Thats the whole point of democracy...the right to choose.

I can understand the reasons for boycotting the election. They believe that the election will not be fair (EC bought off by TRT/Taksin along with many other "independant" bodies) then the only option they have is to protest. If the system is left as it is TRT will always be the ruling party buying the votes they need and continuing to fill the independant bodies/watchdogs with there own people thereby the "democratically" elected government in reality becomes a dictatorship.

[dan10400]

a peaceful demonstration exercising the right of peaceful assembly is not a mob

Beg to differ with you on that... When they refuse to follow democratic principles and withdraw from an election with the sole purpose of disrupting the lawful democratic process of that election, they are nothing more than a mob.

Actually it is upholding democratic priniciples

The people have a democratic right to protest, and likewise the politcal parties have a democratic right not to enter the election. Thats the whole point of democracy...the right to choose.

I can understand the reasons for boycotting the election. They believe that the election will not be fair (EC bought off by TRT/Taksin along with many other "independant" bodies) then the only option they have is to protest. If the system is left as it is TRT will always be the ruling party buying the votes they need and continuing to fill the independant bodies/watchdogs with there own people thereby the "democratically" elected government in reality becomes a dictatorship.

i concur with moonoi on this. it is not clear that anybody who claims

that people who don't vote are anti-democratic actually even

understand democracy.

when the media is stifled, alleged drug dealers are sumarily executed,

votes bought-n-sold, checks and balances thwarted, etc.,

it is not clear that Thailand even classifies as a real democracy.

[lukamar]

Actually it is upholding democratic priniciples

The people have a democratic right to protest, and likewise the politcal parties have a democratic right not to enter the election. Thats the whole point of democracy...the right to choose.

But to exercise that right knowingly to disrupt an election, as the opposition parties have done, is anarchy not democracy. I think that the opposition leaders and their parties have come close to breaking this part of the elections commision act, if they have not already.

5. Anyone who falsely accuses a candidate of fraud with the intend to have him or her excluded from the race is liable to 5-10 years' imprisonment or a fine of 45,000-200,000 baht and loss of election rights for 10 years.

6. A political party can be dissolved if its leader is found to have colluded in above action.

I can understand the reasons for boycotting the election. They believe that the election will not be fair (EC bought off by TRT/Taksin along with many other "independant" bodies) then the only option they have is to protest. If the system is left as it is TRT will always be the ruling party buying the votes they need and continuing to fill the independant bodies/watchdogs with there own people thereby the "democratically" elected government in reality becomes a dictatorship.

I understand the reason they are boycotting as well they do not have a chance of winning and they know it They have no platform other than the "We Hate TS" one. It's a desperate bid by the leaders of the 3 opposition parties to have a witch hunt in the guise of a democratic rally, because they have no other way of gaining power. If you even half heartedly believe the poll numbers TRT and TS are still the party that the populace wants to run Thailand.

[dan10400]

But to exercise that right knowingly to disrupt an election, as the opposition parties have done, is anarchy not democracy. I think that the opposition leaders and their parties have come close to breaking this part of the elections commision act, if they have not already.

5. Anyone who falsely accuses a candidate of fraud with the intend to have him or her excluded from the race is liable to 5-10 years' imprisonment or a fine of 45,000-200,000 baht and loss of election rights for 10 years.

6. A political party can be dissolved if its leader is found to have colluded in above action.

ok, fine. so in this case, we go to court, lay out all the facts, gather experts,

documents, facts of every type and try the case.

guess who doesn't want to do that?

I can understand the reasons for boycotting the election. They believe that the election will not be fair (EC bought off by TRT/Taksin along with many other "independant" bodies) then the only option they have is to protest. If the system is left as it is TRT will always be the ruling party buying the votes they need and continuing to fill the independant bodies/watchdogs with there own people thereby the "democratically" elected government in reality becomes a dictatorship.

I understand the reason they are boycotting as well they do not have a chance of winning and they know it They have no platform other than the "We Hate TS" one. It's a desperate bid by the leaders of the 3 opposition parties to have a witch hunt in the guise of a democratic rally, because they have no other way of gaining power. If you even half heartedly believe the poll numbers TRT and TS are still the party that the populace wants to run Thailand.

i think the platform is more along the lines of "we think the morally bankrupt

PM Thaksin is not longer qualified to be the leader of thailand".

you fail to recognize that it was not the opposition party who

dissolved parliment. by this action, it seems that Thaksin agrees

more with the opposition that his legitimacy as prime minister is

questionable at this time to go to that extent. If there were

no concerns on his part, this surely seems more undemocratic

that boycotting an election, surely?

[moonoi]

Actually it is upholding democratic priniciples

The people have a democratic right to protest, and likewise the politcal parties have a democratic right not to enter the election. Thats the whole point of democracy...the right to choose.

But to exercise that right knowingly to disrupt an election, as the opposition parties have done, is anarchy not democracy. I think that the opposition leaders and their parties have come close to breaking this part of the elections commision act, if they have not already.

5. Anyone who falsely accuses a candidate of fraud with the intend to have him or her excluded from the race is liable to 5-10 years' imprisonment or a fine of 45,000-200,000 baht and loss of election rights for 10 years.

6. A political party can be dissolved if its leader is found to have colluded in above action.

I can understand the reasons for boycotting the election. They believe that the election will not be fair (EC bought off by TRT/Taksin along with many other "independant" bodies) then the only option they have is to protest. If the system is left as it is TRT will always be the ruling party buying the votes they need and continuing to fill the independant bodies/watchdogs with there own people thereby the "democratically" elected government in reality becomes a dictatorship.

I understand the reason they are boycotting as well they do not have a chance of winning and they know it They have no platform other than the "We Hate TS" one. It's a desperate bid by the leaders of the 3 opposition parties to have a witch hunt in the guise of a democratic rally, because they have no other way of gaining power. If you even half heartedly believe the poll numbers TRT and TS are still the party that the populace wants to run Thailand.

Anarchy is the complete breakdown of law and order. I think you misunderstand the meaning of this word. What the opposition are doing certainly does not create anarchy. In fact the right to peaceful protest is not just a democratic one its also constitutional. When the system of checks and balances for the government fails then there is no other option.

Now I agree with you that if PAD/Opposition parties were to incite violence and to break the law then yes anarchy might ensue. But they have not done, in fact they have specifically said to all of those protesters supporting them, not to break the law, not to cause violence and not rise to the challenge of any pro-taksin supporter that may try to goad them into a violent encounter.

You have protests in the US/UK (anti-war) and France (Farmers), its all part of the democratic process.

and with regards to this statement:

I think that the opposition leaders and their parties have come close to breaking this part of the elections commision act, if they have not already

If that were true then TRT are equally guilty, which is the reason why the EC doesn't do anything....it would open up an even bigger kettle of fish.....

Edited March 6, 2006 by moonoi

[lukamar]

Anarchy is the complete breakdown of law and order. I think you misunderstand the meaning of this word.

Anarchy is also "denial of any authority or established order" according to Websters.

When the system of checks and balances for the government fails then there is no other option.

There is an option, to form a party with a decent platform and campaign in the fields and the cities and defeat the government in an election, it may not be any of the existing parties. From what my wife has told me election corruption and vote buying was just as rampant prior to the TRT. You just have to work harder than the other party to get your people elected. Not running any candidates is foolish at best, protest as they will they will not elect anyone. At best they will end up with another election in a few months, at worst riots or a coupe.

Now I agree with you that if PAD/Opposition parties were to incite violence and to break the law then yes anarchy might ensue. But they have not done, in fact they have specifically said to all of those protesters supporting them, not to break the law, not to cause violence and not rise to the challenge of any pro-taksin supporter that may try to goad them into a violent encounter.

I also hope it does not turn violent in any way... but if it did you would have to think it would tend to favor the PAD stance and allow the military to step in to quell the situation. You have to wonder given their decisions of late if they are saying one thing but wishing for another. Unfortunately if this happened democracy in Thailand would be setback significantly.

[mogoso]

when the media is stifled, alleged drug dealers are sumarily executed,

votes bought-n-sold, checks and balances thwarted, etc.,

it is not clear that Thailand even classifies as a real democracy.

I beg to differ. In the US the democratic party finds it convient to pay voters for their time. why in Chicago even the dead have been voting democratic for years.

[dan10400]

when the media is stifled, alleged drug dealers are sumarily executed,

votes bought-n-sold, checks and balances thwarted, etc.,

it is not clear that Thailand even classifies as a real democracy.

I beg to differ. In the US the democratic party finds it convient to pay voters for their time. why in Chicago even the dead have been voting democratic for years.

that may or may not be true, but you point is off topic. Thaksin isn't

holding an office within the US.

[francois]

hi'

I'm afraid that HM the King has to intervene in this, ask toxin to step down for the good of the country, avoid bloodshell like in 92, and set proper election by an interim gov, with enough time for mp's to change side or stay same and political side to calm down a bit, Thailand is in danger these days

francois

[monty]

There is an option, to form a party with a decent platform and campaign in the fields and the cities and defeat the government in an election, it may not be any of the existing parties. From what my wife has told me election corruption and vote buying was just as rampant prior to the TRT

This might a tiny bit difficult if the party to try to beat is owned by the richest person in Thailand!

Simply by virtue of his(or his family, business relations,...) financial might, any election is decided in his favour already!

Unfortunately, elections worldwide, are most often decided by which party has the best fundraisers.

TRT most definately does not need any fundraisers...

[george]

Bangkok poll says Thaksin should resign

BANGKOK: -- Nearly half of the people in Bangkok, Thailand's capital, believe caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra should resign, an opinion poll conducted on Monday revealed.

A survey of 2,117 Bangkok residents found that 48.2 per cent thought Thaksin should resign, 35.5 per cent thought he should stay on and the remainder had no opinion, an ABAC poll conducted by Assumption University concluded.

The opinion poll was taken on Monday, following a mass anti-Thaksin demonstration Sunday night that saw up to 100,000 people march on Government House in Bangkok to demand the prime minister's immediate resignation.

The rallies are expected to continue nightly until Thaksin steps down or the so-far peaceful protests turn bloody.

"Now everyone is watching Thaksin's common sense and sense of responsibility towards society," said Nopphadorn Kanika, director of the ABAC Centre.

Anti-Thaksin protests have been escalating since the prime minister's family sold off their 49 per cent stake in their clan-owned Shin Corp to Singapore Temasek Holding on January 23 for 73.3 billion baht (1.9 billion dollars).

The enormous transaction was finessed through the stock market to be tax free, adding to the first family's already enormous wealth made off government concessions in telecommunications, aviation and media.

Many have also criticized the prime minister for selling sensitive business sectors, including Thailand's national satellite network, to a foreign company. Temasek is an investment arm of the Singaporean government.

In response to the growing groundswell of disapproval of his premiership, Thaksin on February 24 dissolved parliament and called for a snap election on April 2.

The polls have been boycotted by Thailand's three main opposition parties on the grounds that they don't want to participate in an election that will only serve to legitimize Thaksin's embattled premiership.

Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai party, campaigning on populist policies that have endeared them to the rural poor, won the 2001 and 2005 elections and is expected to win, hands down, the April 2 polls.

But with no opposition parties contesting the race, the legitimacy of Thaksin's premiership remains in question.

--DPA 2006-03-06

[jdinasia]

Anarchy is the complete breakdown of law and order. I think you misunderstand the meaning of this word.

Anarchy is also "denial of any authority or established order" according to Websters.

When the system of checks and balances for the government fails then there is no other option.

There is an option, to form a party with a decent platform and campaign in the fields and the cities and defeat the government in an election, it may not be any of the existing parties. From what my wife has told me election corruption and vote buying was just as rampant prior to the TRT. You just have to work harder than the other party to get your people elected. Not running any candidates is foolish at best, protest as they will they will not elect anyone. At best they will end up with another election in a few months, at worst riots or a coupe.

Well forming a party won't happen now ... in fact cannot happen. The people that have been with TRT but would change cannot either .... The party system rules here. (Think party machines in New Orleans in the 50's etc) Not running anyone makes sense while things are this out of balance.

Now I agree with you that if PAD/Opposition parties were to incite violence and to break the law then yes anarchy might ensue. But they have not done, in fact they have specifically said to all of those protesters supporting them, not to break the law, not to cause violence and not rise to the challenge of any pro-taksin supporter that may try to goad them into a violent encounter.

I also hope it does not turn violent in any way... but if it did you would have to think it would tend to favor the PAD stance and allow the military to step in to quell the situation. You have to wonder given their decisions of late if they are saying one thing but wishing for another. Unfortunately if this happened democracy in Thailand would be setback significantly.

Edited March 6, 2006 by jdinasia

[WISteve]

"the 'self-proclaimed" experts are not just university intellectuals. They are also commited members of the senate ... business leaders ... members of the royal family etc."

And they all have one thing in common.....they have one vote.

I'm certainly NOT discouraging the free expression of opinions, whether of thai nationals or members of this forum. But don't get the notion that our POLL is in anyway credible or really matters in the end.

~WISteve

[lukamar]

Well forming a party won't happen now ... in fact cannot happen. The people that have been with TRT but would change cannot either .... The party system rules here. (Think party machines in New Orleans in the 50's etc) Not running anyone makes sense while things are this out of balance.

I did not necessarily mean for this election. It looks to me, and I'm often wrong, that the situation is good for a new group to align itself and form a new party rather soon. If that party could be a bit more representative nationwide than what is offered now they would have a good chance of forming a government down the road. All the parties leaders now seem to have a personal agenda of some sort or another. If a new party could find a low key but charismatic leader and have a reasonable platform that appealed to a wide range of people both urban and rural it could be a force to be reckoned with in very short order.

[boppia]

Thaksin is absolutely a criminal. That's a word that just doesn't seem to come up. He should be booted from office. He has exploited Thailand from day one with his companies. He has recieved so many tax breaks and special exceptions for his comapnies along the way and in the end he screws over the people to take even more. He and his family deserve nothing now. They would be smart to leave this country. Thaksin staying on driving the people to the edge of violence just goes to show how selfish a pig he is.

As for those of you who want to keep him in I can't understand you unless you support oppressive governments. Lots of people love Marcos still. Lots of people love Singapores ridiculous laws. Lots of people loved Mao, Stalin, Hitler, George Bush, all of the people who see taking away choice and information as a way to keep the world a wonderful place. Don't respond to this as this information should be censored. You can't know the truth. Don't think just follow.

[lukamar]

Don't think just follow.

Seems to be the root of the problem, if more people would think instead of just following the world would be a better place.

Edited March 6, 2006 by lukamar

[britmaveric]

Thaksin is absolutely a criminal. That's a word that just doesn't seem to come up. He should be booted from office. He has exploited Thailand from day one with his companies. He has recieved so many tax breaks and special exceptions for his comapnies along the way and in the end he screws over the people to take even more. He and his family deserve nothing now. They would be smart to leave this country. Thaksin staying on driving the people to the edge of violence just goes to show how selfish a pig he is.

As for those of you who want to keep him in I can't understand you unless you support oppressive governments. Lots of people love Marcos still. Lots of people love Singapores ridiculous laws. Lots of people loved Mao, Stalin, Hitler, George Bush, all of the people who see taking away choice and information as a way to keep the world a wonderful place. Don't respond to this as this information should be censored. You can't know the truth. Don't think just follow.

Luckily democracy is about choice if the people make a bad choice they have an opportunity to send the candidate packing in an election.

[Thaising]

Latest News. Due to political uncertainty, Dusit poll will stop doing survey for the time being, this is to prevent thais from misunderstanding during present time crisis.

[Orion76]

All parties engage in vote buying, this was going on long before TRT and the only way to run in a Thai election. All the opposition parties buy votes too or they wouldn’t have won a single seat in the house.

It’s the system that is rotten, Thaksin is simply playing the game by the same rules as everyone else only he is better at it. His opposition is as bad as he is and the main reason they are crying foul is because they have been outmaneuvered. Do you think if TRT is thrown out of the house the next ruling party will push through any reform that is against the best interest of the ruling party?

Booting Thaksin out of office now won’t improve anything and will be against the will of the vast majority of the Thai people who elected Thaksin and who will vote for him again in the next election. A minority elite in the capital deciding what’s best for the rest of the country is not democratic, even if they are right.

If the opposition wants to make a difference they should be more patient, learn from Thaksin and try to beat him at his own game, for example by doing more to appeal to the rural voter in future elections. Even if they lose the next one or two elections they should fight to win more seats in the house and instead of crying foul against one man who is simply smarter and better at playing the system they should cry foul against the system itself and try to change it from within, for example by publicly exposing what’s wrong with it and lobbying for reform and putting better checks and balances in place. It may be a slow process but it’s the democratic way of doing politics.

Edited March 7, 2006 by Orion76

[lukamar]

All parties engage in vote buying, this was going on long before TRT and the only way to run in a Thai election. All the opposition parties buy votes too or they wouldn’t have won a single seat in the house.

It’s the system that is rotten, Thaksin is simply playing the game by the same rules as everyone else only he is better at it. His opposition is as bad as he is and the main reason they are crying foul is because they have been outmaneuvered. Do you think if TRT is thrown out of the house the next ruling party will push through any reform that is against the best interest of the ruling party?

Booting Thaksin out of office now won’t improve anything and will be against the will of the vast majority of the Thai people who elected Thaksin and who will vote for him again in the next election. A minority elite in the capital deciding what’s best for the rest of the country is not democratic, even if they are right.

If the opposition wants to make a difference they should be more patient, learn from Thaksin and try to beat him at his own game, for example by doing more to appeal to the rural voter in future elections. Even if they lose the next one or two elections they should fight to win more seats in the house and instead of crying foul against one man who is simply smarter and better at playing the system they should cry foul against the system itself and try to change it from within, for example by publicly exposing what’s wrong with it and lobbying for reform and putting better checks and balances in place. It may be a slow process but it’s the democratic way of doing politics.

Congratulations you are one of those that understand what has, is and will go on in Thai politics.