Efforts To Protect Thai Crocodiles

[webfact]

Efforts to protect Thai crocodiles
JANJIRA PONGRAI
THE NATION



BANGKOK: -- The authorities have joined forces with the private sector to conserve Thai crocodiles (C.siamensis) whose population in the wild is now only 200.

Department of National Parks, Wildlife and Conservation deputy chief Teerapat Prayunsit said yesterday that the crocodile conservation and release-to-nature project in a venture by his office, the Department of Fisheries, crocodile-breeding businesses and Mahidol University had improved the situation from near extinction since 2005. There were now 200 crocodiles in the wild. In the second phase, they would assess habitats, especially Kaeng Krajan National Park's Phetchaburi River, to release Thai crocodiles, which would also be tagged with radio devices to study behaviour and survival rate in the next eight months to one year, he added.

Fisheries Department chief Wimol Jantrarotai said the second phase comprised habitat study, genetic identification of the fresh-water crocodile, research on key infectious diseases in crocodiles, community participation promotion and releasing crocodiles into nature. He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products. It would also help lift trade blockage by the US against Thai crocodile products, which stipulates a condition that Thailand must conserve crocodiles in the wild.

Crocodile Cooperative of Thailand president Yossapong Temsiripong said the private sector saw the importance and supported wild-crocodile conservation.


-- The Nation 2013-03-01

[Locationthailand]

I wonder how the crocs signed the census questionnaire to establish 200 left in the wilds of Thailand? If one goes to the crocodile farm at Samut Prakhan it would be easy enough to take 100 and release them to the wilds. They are being farmed so there is no shortage and there are quite a few farms who can supply. The balance is, are they free to roam or in controlled communities?

Edited March 1, 2013 by Locationthailand

[Pimay1]

I wonder how the crocs signed the census questionnaire to establish 200 left in the wilds of Thailand? If one goes to the crocodile farm at Samut Prakhan it would be easy enough to take 100 and release them to the wilds. They are being farmed so there is no shortage and there are quite a few farms who can supply. The balance is, are they free to roam or in controlled communities?

There are probably a few on the loose that did not get caught during the flood.

[A Member]

Is this a euphemism for " Thai politicians, VIPs and rich taking care of themselves " ?

[noitom]

They are probably sweating out that some big movie star, a la Leo, will get on the Thai croc case.

[Robby nz]

I wonder how the crocs signed the census questionnaire to establish 200 left in the wilds of Thailand? If one goes to the crocodile farm at Samut Prakhan it would be easy enough to take 100 and release them to the wilds. They are being farmed so there is no shortage and there are quite a few farms who can supply. The balance is, are they free to roam or in controlled communities?

The ones in the farms are a completely different animal.

You do some good posts but try checking your facts on this one before you post on this subject again

[cycloneJ]

some info from the IUCN Red List of Threatened Species site here, classed as 'critically endangered' since 1996

Scientific Name: Crocodylus siamensis

Species Authority: Schneider, 1801

Common Name/s: English – Siamese Crocodile, French – Crocodile du Siam, Spanish – Cocodrilo de Siam, Cocodrilo du Siam

2012: Crocodylus siamensis is among the most threatened crocodilians.

In 1992 it was reported as virtually extinct in the wild (Thorbjarnarson 1992) and in 1996 was accorded the IUCN Red List status of ‘Critically Endangered' (Baillie and Groombridge 1996). This status remains unchanged.

Field surveys, nearly all conducted since 2000, have confirmed that extant populations persist, but that all are severely diminished and fragmented. Over the past decade new information on the ecology of the species has been documented, although C. siamensis remains one of the least known crocodilians. Commercial hunting for the skin trade and collection of live animals to stock crocodile farms, in the mid- and late-twentieth century respectively, are considered to be the principal causes for its decline.

Current threats include illegal collection of eggs, juveniles and adults, habitat loss, incidental capture with fishing gear, and the inherent vulnerability of remnant populations due to their small size.

This species qualifies as Critically Endangered.

Global populations have been severely reduced, almost certainly by over 80% in the past 75 years / three generations (assuming a generation time of 25 years), principally due to hunting. All remnant subpopulations are small and fragmented. Most current threats, including illegal collection and habitat loss or degradation, are ongoing, suggesting that without conservation interventions, extant populations will continue to decline.

*****

Also - more here at arkive Siamese crocodile fact file

Edited March 1, 2013 by cycloneJ

[wilcopops]

I wonder how the crocs signed the census questionnaire to establish 200 left in the wilds of Thailand? If one goes to the crocodile farm at Samut Prakhan it would be easy enough to take 100 and release them to the wilds. They are being farmed so there is no shortage and there are quite a few farms who can supply. The balance is, are they free to roam or in controlled communities?

I don't think you understand how animal populations are assessed.

If you have a basic knowledge of any particular animals needs, habits and habitat you can then look for evidence of that animal in a particular area and from spoor, footprints and observing the amount of suitable prey etc make quite an accurate assessment.

the FARMED crocs are mostly hybrids - a cross with the estuarine species - this hybrid grows quicker is bigger and unfortunately more aggressive - it would be a problem on many fronts if they were released into the wild.

Simply releasing crocs - even the right species - into the wild is not necessarily a solution as before doing so one has to ensure that the situation and environment is capable of supporting the new animals. Quite apart from habitat and food sources there is also the need to protect the animals from poachers and those who simply see them as a threat to their livelihood.

Edited March 1, 2013 by wilcopops

[Payboy]

He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products.

How did we get from "Efforts to protect Thai crocodiles" to this in the same article?

[Pimay1]

He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products.

How did we get from "Efforts to protect Thai crocodiles" to this in the same article?

Maybe Science Minister Plod is planning on opening a new restaurant selling crocodile steaks like he did in Chiang Mai selling endangered species steaks.

[Bagwan]

Some time ago there was a newspaper article that said that there were about 7 Thai crocs in the wild. If the numbers have risen to 200 then this is good news, for the crocs at least. Surely crocodile products from Thailand are from saurians bred and raised in captivity so why a problem. In spite of the poor dental hygiene of crocs they do not develop gum or blood disorders and I understand that work is being undertaken to isolate that element of croc blood that brings this about so that it may be used as an effective anti sepsis on humans.

[wealth]

There's a petition going on over the illegal ivory trade in Thailand

http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_elephants/?fp

Ironically there will be an internationalmeeting in Thailand about endangered species coming up soon

There should be another petition going for crocs as well and any and all endangered species, especially farangs

[Robby nz]

He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products.

How did we get from "Efforts to protect Thai crocodiles" to this in the same article?

If you had read and understood the article you would have seen that by identifying DNA etc they are able to tell which species the products that are for sale are from.

This means that those selling products from farmed, non thai crocs, can prove that what they are selling is not from an endangered species.

[Payboy]

He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products.

How did we get from "Efforts to protect Thai crocodiles" to this in the same article?

If you had read and understood the article you would have seen that by identifying DNA etc they are able to tell which species the products that are for sale are from.

This means that those selling products from farmed, non thai crocs, can prove that what they are selling is not from an endangered species.

Really? You read that in the OP? Where?

[ginjag]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

[Pimay1]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

The kids come by here every day with a fishnet bag. It is small lizzards in it. They sell them for food. They are so small there is barely enough for one bite. I think in a few years these little critters will be no more.

[ginjag]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

The kids come by here every day with a fishnet bag. It is small lizzards in it. They sell them for food. They are so small there is barely enough for one bite. I think in a few years these little critters will be no more.

All the CRACKDOWNS that are published -how many are applied long term, Really who does believe any of it, it's a play for time and the brainwashed Thai people into thinking some thing is happening, Ha Ha. the only protection here is THEIR...bank accounts.

[wilcopops]

"Fisheries Department chief Wimol Jantrarotai said the second phase comprised habitat study, genetic identification of the fresh-water crocodile, research on key infectious diseases in crocodiles, community participation promotion and releasing crocodiles into nature. He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products. It would also help lift trade blockage by the US against Thai crocodile products, which stipulates a condition that Thailand must conserve crocodiles in the wild."

Really just goes to show how shabby the government thinking/logic ids on conservation in general

[DocN]

As long as people are poor enough and uneducated enough to fully understand and/or care what it means, when a species goes extinct, the killing will go on.

Crocs, tigers...there was a discussion on here not too long ago, where ( I guess) educated people said, they wouldn't mind for the King Cobra to go extinct, because they don't like snakes very much and some 50 people get killed every year by snake bites.

Now imagine you are pisspoor and a dead crocodile will feed your family for 4 days....

[Robby nz]

He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products.

How did we get from "Efforts to protect Thai crocodiles" to this in the same article?

If you had read and understood the article you would have seen that by identifying DNA etc they are able to tell which species the products that are for sale are from.

This means that those selling products from farmed, non thai crocs, can prove that what they are selling is not from an endangered species.

Really? You read that in the OP? Where?

Fisheries Department chief Wimol Jantrarotai said the second phase comprised habitat study, genetic identification of the fresh-water crocodile, research on key infectious diseases in crocodiles, community participation promotion and releasing crocodiles into nature. He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products. It would also help lift trade blockage by the US against Thai crocodile products, which stipulates a condition that Thailand must conserve crocodiles in the wild.

By being able to genetically identify the Thai croc and its parts this knowledge can then be applied to products from the farmed species.

Products for sale to the customer can then be positively identified as coming from a non endangered species.

I would imagine those legitimately selling croc products (like the farmers) would want this to happen so would be very happy to go along with any testing and labeling procedure that was put in place.

[Robby nz]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

What a lot of crap.

Thailand is full of birds, try going for a trip through Lao and you will see the difference, not a bird anywhere.

On our last trip round the Bolivan platau and the 4000 islands the only birds we saw were half a dozen sparrows on one of the islands and later we saw a mist net hanging up so someone was after them.

Sorry mods for going off topic but when I see fools who hate it so much being here that they have to have a go at every thing Thai it gets up my nose.

[Payboy]

He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products.

How did we get from "Efforts to protect Thai crocodiles" to this in the same article?

If you had read and understood the article you would have seen that by identifying DNA etc they are able to tell which species the products that are for sale are from.

This means that those selling products from farmed, non thai crocs, can prove that what they are selling is not from an endangered species.

Really? You read that in the OP? Where?

Fisheries Department chief Wimol Jantrarotai said the second phase comprised habitat study, genetic identification of the fresh-water crocodile, research on key infectious diseases in crocodiles, community participation promotion and releasing crocodiles into nature. He said this project would boost the confidence of customers of Thai crocodile products. It would also help lift trade blockage by the US against Thai crocodile products, which stipulates a condition that Thailand must conserve crocodiles in the wild.

By being able to genetically identify the Thai croc and its parts this knowledge can then be applied to products from the farmed species.

Products for sale to the customer can then be positively identified as coming from a non endangered species.

I would imagine those legitimately selling croc products (like the farmers) would want this to happen so would be very happy to go along with any testing and labeling procedure that was put in place.

Sorry, but that's neither here not there. A freshwater croc in the wild will have the same DNA as a captive freshwater croc. Unless I find a RFID chip in my croc steak or croc-skin shoes, there's no way of knowing whether that croc was wild or farmed.

[wilcopops]

I would have thought that any true Siam croc would have DNA sufficiently different from a farm hybrid to make an ID

[Payboy]

I would have thought that any true Siam croc would have DNA sufficiently different from a farm hybrid to make an ID

I would be very surprised if indeed Thai croc breeders are genetically modifying their livestock.

[ginjag]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

What a lot of crap.

Thailand is full of birds, try going for a trip through Lao and you will see the difference, not a bird anywhere.

On our last trip round the Bolivan platau and the 4000 islands the only birds we saw were half a dozen sparrows on one of the islands and later we saw a mist net hanging up so someone was after them.

Sorry mods for going off topic but when I see fools who hate it so much being here that they have to have a go at every thing Thai it gets up my nose.

I love it here, and just because I told a home truth you say it's crap, o.k. but we are talking about Thai NOT LAOS yes you are off topic.

pray o so Mr. traveller-do tell me where I can see beautiful birds---Wildlife--- here ??? been here 31 years and lived in so many provinces, yet to use my nice binoculars. You tell me where and I will go and photo them. people in denial get up my nose.----good if they can protect the crocs, some lovely shoes and handbags around -not to mention Sting ray purses and wallets. I do not bash the nice things Thailand offers.

[wilcopops]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

What a lot of crap.

Thailand is full of birds, try going for a trip through Lao and you will see the difference, not a bird anywhere.

On our last trip round the Bolivan platau and the 4000 islands the only birds we saw were half a dozen sparrows on one of the islands and later we saw a mist net hanging up so someone was after them.

Sorry mods for going off topic but when I see fools who hate it so much being here that they have to have a go at every thing Thai it gets up my nose.

I love it here, and just because I told a home truth you say it's crap, o.k. but we are talking about Thai NOT LAOS yes you are off topic.

pray o so Mr. traveller-do tell me where I can see beautiful birds---Wildlife--- here ??? been here 31 years and lived in so many provinces, yet to use my nice binoculars. You tell me where and I will go and photo them. people in denial get up my nose.----good if they can protect the crocs, some lovely shoes and handbags around -not to mention Sting ray purses and wallets. I do not bash the nice things Thailand offers.

Thailand is actually famous amongst twitchers as one of the best places in the world for bird-spotting. I think rather than jmping to conclusions from your own (limited?) personal experience, you might check up on this before making unfounded claims.

THe situation with flora and fauna worldwide is desperate, but it doesn't help if people don't get their facts straight when voicing concern.

Edited March 3, 2013 by wilcopops

[HeavyDrinker]

I have to agree with Maniwaring on this one. Thailand is an amazing place to be a birdwatcher...

Was out this morning watching the cranes as they prepare to fly North....stunning....

[Pimay1]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

What a lot of crap.

Thailand is full of birds, try going for a trip through Lao and you will see the difference, not a bird anywhere.

On our last trip round the Bolivan platau and the 4000 islands the only birds we saw were half a dozen sparrows on one of the islands and later we saw a mist net hanging up so someone was after them.

Sorry mods for going off topic but when I see fools who hate it so much being here that they have to have a go at every thing Thai it gets up my nose.

I love it here, and just because I told a home truth you say it's crap, o.k. but we are talking about Thai NOT LAOS yes you are off topic.

pray o so Mr. traveller-do tell me where I can see beautiful birds---Wildlife--- here ??? been here 31 years and lived in so many provinces, yet to use my nice binoculars. You tell me where and I will go and photo them. people in denial get up my nose.----good if they can protect the crocs, some lovely shoes and handbags around -not to mention Sting ray purses and wallets. I do not bash the nice things Thailand offers.

Thailand is actually famous amongst twitchers as one of the best places in the world for bird-spotting. I think rather than jmping to conclusions from your own (limited?) personal experience, you might check up on this before making unfounded claims.

THe situation with flora and fauna worldwide is desperate, but it doesn't help if people don't get their facts straight when voicing concern.

I'm going to let you guys duke it out but this is what I have observed since 1994 when I first came here. I'll only spark for Esaan because I have not traveled around Thailand very much. Up here until about a year ago it was quite rare to see anything except a sparrow. The folks here hunted anything and everything. I think they passed a law concerning the long guns these guys use and I don't see them any more. Now the birds are starting to come back which is good of course. But it will take a long time to repopulate.

[ginjag]

Big talk as usual to pacify some readers, Business as usual as they say.

Tusks for sale, coloured lizards, beautiful snakes, amongst dozens of examples, Just a thought the geographical location of Thailand, similar to say Sri Lanka, in Sri Lanka anywhere you go you will see birds of every variety in towns and villages, I have lived in many places in Thailand and in near all I have rarely come accross ANY beautiful birds.

Sorry to say but the youth are encouraged to catapult anything that moves here and they are supported by their parents. MONEY again GREED. The lack of kindness to animals is a feature of Thai thinking. They do not care in general. BUT there are a few in this land that care, but that is not enough. Take the policeman caught with tusks---example.

What a lot of crap.

Thailand is full of birds, try going for a trip through Lao and you will see the difference, not a bird anywhere.

On our last trip round the Bolivan platau and the 4000 islands the only birds we saw were half a dozen sparrows on one of the islands and later we saw a mist net hanging up so someone was after them.

Sorry mods for going off topic but when I see fools who hate it so much being here that they have to have a go at every thing Thai it gets up my nose.

I love it here, and just because I told a home truth you say it's crap, o.k. but we are talking about Thai NOT LAOS yes you are off topic.

pray o so Mr. traveller-do tell me where I can see beautiful birds---Wildlife--- here ??? been here 31 years and lived in so many provinces, yet to use my nice binoculars. You tell me where and I will go and photo them. people in denial get up my nose.----good if they can protect the crocs, some lovely shoes and handbags around -not to mention Sting ray purses and wallets. I do not bash the nice things Thailand offers.

Thailand is actually famous amongst twitchers as one of the best places in the world for bird-spotting. I think rather than jmping to conclusions from your own (limited?) personal experience, you might check up on this before making unfounded claims.

THe situation with flora and fauna worldwide is desperate, but it doesn't help if people don't get their facts straight when voicing concern.

WILCOPOPS, you say my LIMITED-experience, my claims are not unfounded, I do not include national parks, OR lakes and the like.

I am talking about RURAL Thailand -towns and villages, get it ??? I see beautiful stork and cranes locally, but fail to see woodpecker-kingfisher- humming birds etc LOCALLY. HOw many true crocks are left now in Thai natural wild. ??? most areas are getting too polluted and species are rare.

I try to grow the kind of flowers in my garden to attract butterfly-birds, and I would love to see Thais in general giving this the same thought.

This morning I did see 1 wagtail and 50 sparrows, I love to protect, I am NOT THAI BASHING.just sorry they do not regard wildlife as I do.

[Payboy]

At least there's enough birds that really matter.