Scams - An Oldie But A Goodie In Malaysia

[MrWorldwide]

If you've ever watched 'Hustle' or pretty much any George Clooney movie, you will now that there are some clever scams out there, and some less clever scams. This is one of the latter, IMO.

I found myself in the middle of this gem a few years back in KL - even then, I had a pretty good idea where it was going, but more on that later. I'd be surprised if no-one else here had ever come across this, but it seemed like a lot of work for - in my case, at least - very little reward.

There is a very common and standard card game scam played on tourists in Malaysia. The tourist will be shown a foolproof system to win a game of blackjack or poker after being invited to a locals house for dinner. Once the traveller is continuously “winning” under the hosts guidance, a rich friend of the host just happens to show up. (Sense where this is heading?) Once the rich guy loses a few hands, the traveller increases the bet, even making confident trips to the ATM until the host and his mates uncover their foolproof win system, resulting in one poor traveller.

It's surprising travellers fall for this old trick, but locals are smooth talkers so take any games played as a bit of holiday fun only.

The saddest part about this is that our con man friend had recruited his adult children to strike up a conversation with 'the tourist', invite me back to their place for lunch etc. I was very wary, but these were clean-cut folks with excellent English : stark contrast to every other female who had approached me on the streets to that point. This wasnt the southern Phillipines, and no-one seemed to be brandising a machete. I think there may have even been some mention of 'see how real Malaysians live' or somesuch. Of course, it didnt hurt that the girl was a hot 20-something, but who would send an ugly girl out on a mission like that ?

As soon as I got back to their house - which seemed normal enough - I met their mum and dad and everything seemed reasonably above board. Till the cards came out and everyone except dad disappeared. He told me he was a dealer at a casino, but that he was only ever called in to deal for high-rollers. He proceeded to demonstrate how easily he could manipulate 90% of the outcomes without (to my untrained eye) cheating. He also claimed that the high rollers didn't give a damn about the money - it was all about ego and the thrill of the chase yada yada. All of which explained why his family lived in the equivalent of tract housing out in the 'burbs, but you don't go to a man's house and knee him in the groin, do you ?

Throughout most of this, I sat back with my hands on my lap repeating 'That's fantastic, but I don't gamble', which is the truth. Eventually, dad seemed to lose interest, his family magically re-appeared and gave me a lift back to the city. His daughter asked for a few Ringgit for fuel - which was fine with me - but that was the extent of my 'losses' from this fairly odd afternoon. The guy and girl seemed a little embarrassed by it all, but it was still mostly light-hearted banter on the way back. Certainly no attempt to extort serious money from me - their part in the whole thing appeared to be purely as the bait / transport and dad was the criminal mastermind. OK - would-be criminal mastermind.

In hindsight, I believe he was setting me up for a trip to an underground casino where the only Blue in the place would be allowed to win a certain number of hands by his dealer 'friend' - a variant on the scheme outlined above - before the trap was sprung, but hearing 'I don't gamble' made him cut his losses. Every scam I'm aware of relies on the notion that its possible to get something for nothing - when you dont buy into that, the scam is useless. At least the card scammers do have some skill - this guy clearly knew his way around a deck of cards - but another Malaysian crew reportedly spikes one of your tires in the carpark, approaches you as a 'Good Samaritan' willing to help only to rob you when they get close. Not a whole lot of skill there, but hanging around carparks waiting for people to return to their cars seems awfuily tedious to my way of thinking. At least our Blackjack Wizard can keep himself amused while waiting for his kids to return with another potential customer.It has to be a scam : no-one is that keen to show the world that they can manipulate the outcome of a Blackjack game. No-one.

Malaysia - nice country, beautiful women, dumb crooks

[bangkokburning]

Curious...has anyone tried to game them? Such as go in knowing the story, win twice pull up your pantirs and hoof it out if there!

[NeverSure]

I doubt they'd let you leave winners. That's probably why they don't go to legit casinos, either. I suspect they'd start with the old "you can't leave without giving us a chance to get even" deal, and then get tougher if you didn't play along.

I can only tell you I wouldn't go onto their turf, which is something else I learned a long time ago. Stay off the other guy's turf.

[Gary A]

In my humble opinion, anyone who accepts an invitation to go to a stranger's home should not be permitted to be out on the street alone.

[candypants]

not sure why anyone would let themselves be taken to " the equivalent of tract housing out in the 'burbs'" in the first place.

[rgs2001uk]

How do you know they were Malaysians?

Did they claim so?

They almost always are pinoys.

They are taking their scams on a SEA tour....richer pickings

I hear they are active in Cambo too..

They almost always are pinoys.

Concur, that accent gives them away every time.

They have been in Bkk for years, used to frequent places like the Panthip Plaza, try speaking Thai to them and wait for the excuses to come rolling out, oh I have to go now etc etc.

[MrWorldwide]

They were Malays - I know the difference between Bahasa Malaysia and Tagalog. I've lived with Malaysians in Oz and worked with two Filipinas as recently as 2008. My opinion is that they were beginners - that or dad was some kind of nut. It was amusing either way.

As for getting in the car with two total strangers, where is your sense of adventure, people ? Tell me you've never hopped in a cab with a Thai woman for a trip to some godforsaken part of Bangkok only to find yourself in a dark club surrounded by surly looking Thais ? No - just me again, right ?

(OK - fair cop - it was a brain explosion that I don't plan to repeat. At least not sober.... ).

[MrWorldwide]

In my humble opinion, anyone who accepts an invitation to go to a stranger's home should not be permitted to be out on the street alone.

Based on that, the entire backpacker industry would disappear overnight. Hmm ....

[Gary A]

Just consider me conservative. I don't like the thought of being robbed, beaten or perhaps being killed. I'm just not that adventurous.

[MrWorldwide]

Just consider me conservative. I don't like the thought of being robbed, beaten or perhaps being killed. I'm just not that adventurous.

- I had about a hundred Ringgit, no passport and no ATM or credit card on me

- you can get beaten up pretty much anywhere in an Australian city (granted, getting into a stranger's car is going to improve your chances)

- no-one lives forever

- would anyone risk life imprisonment for the sake of a card scam ?

OK - that might all seem a bit flippant, but I think I had a better chance of all of the above going down in that BKK club. We came out to find a guy being ushered into a cab, bleeding from a stab wound, and his friends in a shouting match with the cabbie (he didnt want the guy bleeding in his cab). Classy place.

(If I can be allowed a moment of speculation, I wonder if my Malay friend may have gotten himself in a little too deep with a casino and been told they needed a few dumb Bule in the club. He made a big show of opening a fresh deck of cards, allowing me to shuffle/cut the deck etc - all standard stage magician stuff - but there were times when he seemed genuinely surprised by the cards he was flipping over. He may have gone into a casino full of misplaced confidence and come out on the wrong side of some very hard men. Or I might have watched one too many Guy Ritchie films )

[TommoPhysicist]

Come and meet my parents and play cards ....... no.

Come and see this really special short-time hotel I know about ....... yes

[uptheos]

Haven't been here long eh?

And as for the line, 'no-one lives forever' you're not likely to be around too long either.

Good story though.

[MrWorldwide]

Come and see this really special short-time hotel I know about ....... yes

KL - fine, Vietnam - no way. We all have our limits.

[bangkokburning]

Oh, I thought this was on the street. Sorry, yeah I agree. Go to strangers home = getting ripped off or conned every time.

My bad.

[Chicog]

Very common in Angeles City, invites to back street card games. Only an idiot would get involved.

[MrWorldwide]

Why go to the PI in the first place ? Talk about living on the edge.

[Chicog]

Why go to the PI in the first place ? Talk about living on the edge.

It's not that bad, and there are parts of Thailand I wouldn't want to hang around at night.

[MrWorldwide]

Why go to the PI in the first place ? Talk about living on the edge.

It's not that bad, and there are parts of Thailand I wouldn't want to hang around at night.

Fair point, and one of those 'parts' is the Soi 3 side of lower Suk .....

The thing that worries me about PI is that they *do* have 'form' - there have been kidnappings for ransom and worse. While some Thai crooks do have guns, there isn't a widespread gun culture - PI seems to be all about guns. Not to mention the risks of HIV infection courtesy of the idiots who think its somehow 'different' to have unprotected sex in PI ....

[IsaanUSA]

I don't understand the scam. What have you got to lose? If you start off winning money, then you would only have your winnings to lose. Where's the scam?

[MrWorldwide]

I don't understand the scam. What have you got to lose? If you start off winning money, then you would only have your winnings to lose. Where's the scam?

The scam kicks in when you start losing and go to the ATM to 'get back on top'. Its hardly unique to SEA - have you never watched gamblers in a casino ? People playing slot machines ? Its a compulsion, and the gambler will always tell himself he can beat the house - it failed in my case because I told them I dont gamble. Repeatedly. If my eyes had lit up when he started showing me how he could manipulate the outcome in a Blackjack game, it may all have been different. Scams only work on the greedy and the gullible - getting into that car may have told them they had a 50% chance of being both. Given that the Army convinced me to jump out of perfectly good aircraft back in the 80s, I guess I really am suggestible (hey, it looked cool in the photos ..). Just not that suggestible.

As others have speculated, the real fun would come when you realised you were being taken and attempted to leave the casino. Thankfully, my arms and legs still work, despite all that parachuting and getting into cars with strangers in KL.

[IsaanUSA]

Ahhhh, I see. So as long as you don't dip into your wallet, then you would be fine. Just as you said....people get greedy.

I've never gambled in a shady Asian gambling den. Is 2000 baht enough to play for a few hours?

[MrWorldwide]

I doubt that 2k baht would get you very far, but I expect they would be happy to take your money. Here in Oz, the pubs and clubs are more than happy to take entire pay packets and pensions, but put up a huge fight when there is any attempt to address our gambling addiction problem.

Much better off spending that 2k baht on beer, IMO. You still end up with nothing, but you might be less inclined to go to the ATM the next day and repeat the experience - that's where gambling seems to really do people in.

[aussiebebe]

Reading this thread about the Malaysian blackjack scam reminded me of a great 2008 movie '21' about a group of MIT kids who counted cards to win in Vegas - I wonder if the Malaysian father in the story was counting? Interestingly some of the actual Vegas casinos from the original story agreed to let the movie be shot on their premises. Counting cards is really hard and the casinos probably thought lots of people would come and try and win blackjack games after seeing the movie.

[Tolley]

Very old scam tried on me in Bangkok in 1981. Agree with another poster who said anybody who goes back to someone elses place they dont know shouldnt be out on the streets alone.

[F4UCorsair]

I'm with tolley and others who say you're nuts to go back to someone's place alone!!! Securing the required number of signatures to have such a person committed springs to mind.

[kevvy]

Just consider me conservative. I don't like the thought of being robbed, beaten or perhaps being killed. I'm just not that adventurous.

- I had about a hundred Ringgit, no passport and no ATM or credit card on me

- you can get beaten up pretty much anywhere in an Australian city (granted, getting into a stranger's car is going to improve your chances)

- no-one lives forever

- would anyone risk life imprisonment for the sake of a card scam ?

OK - that might all seem a bit flippant, but I think I had a better chance of all of the above going down in that BKK club. We came out to find a guy being ushered into a cab, bleeding from a stab wound, and his friends in a shouting match with the cabbie (he didnt want the guy bleeding in his cab). Classy place.

(If I can be allowed a moment of speculation, I wonder if my Malay friend may have gotten himself in a little too deep with a casino and been told they needed a few dumb Bule in the club. He made a big show of opening a fresh deck of cards, allowing me to shuffle/cut the deck etc - all standard stage magician stuff - but there were times when he seemed genuinely surprised by the cards he was flipping over. He may have gone into a casino full of misplaced confidence and come out on the wrong side of some very hard men. Or I might have watched one too many Guy Ritchie films )

you can be beaten up in any city , not just Australian

[mrdome]

I must not look like a player as nobody has "invited" me yet - and thank the Buddhas! Strangers will usually not invite you to come home with them, unless they see a return worth their while (there are exceptions, of course but they are usually found among folk who have next to nothing, in my experience).

The best "home invite" story I have ever heard was dad picking up a backpacker in the Indian Himalayan region, wanting to check out if his daughter - soon to be married to a foreigner - could make love "the English way". Story was called the "Shimla Shag" and may have been an entirely imagined one

[retell]

sounds to me as the same scam where they cheated some thai woman out of her house ans some jewellery about a year back ?

no worry for me i hate card games and betting the best way to win any bet is not to bet win win for sure

see if i can find that old post

[MrWorldwide]

I'm with tolley and others who say you're nuts to go back to someone's place alone!!! Securing the required number of signatures to have such a person committed springs to mind.

I promise not to do it again, Your Honor !

Actually, that's not entirely true - the dire prognostications of several in this thread have inspired me to take on my personal 'no-go' zone:

http://www.jakarta100bars.com/2009/01/stadium-jalan-hayam-wuruk.html

Read some of the comments below that review and ask yourself if you would even set foot in that club.

[genobkk]

I think that scam may have been tried on me several years back. KL plaza some middle age guy is chatting saying his daughter is scared to go study in the states, of course after I told him him I was from the states. He talked about how young and pretty she was and invited me to their place. He wanted me to talk about the US and then play cards later. This whole thing seemed odd and something was not right for sure. I politely said no and went about my day.

If something seems odd and not right then you can bet it is not for sure, maybe it was the same scam, I think playing cards was mentioned but once again it was years ago.