What Men Want

[kat]

I think you just made a lot of guys here on the forum quite curious about your looks...you must be stunning Lady (or is it girl?)

LaoPo

Well, from what I've witnessed, it's quite easy to manipulate most men on this forum into some kind of virtual lust, just by portraying one's self as some sort of "teddy girl" (thanks Khall!), or by posting post-op or bedroom-styled, glossed-up, vanity photos.

I'm a woman, LaoPo. I have my good days, and my bad days, like every other woman. I tend to rely more on my intellect and truth more than my looks. I'm honest to a fault, but I'm real, and also compassionate. I don't really wear makeup because I've always preferred more sleep in the morning, but lately I feel that I should find the time to wear makeup for fun. I've always appealed to males of all ages since I was thirteen, and somehow, this hasn't slowed down even though I am well over thirty. The 10 and 12-year-old boys that had obvious crushes on me this year were a combination of good, hard-working students, and the smart but delinquent, with associated attitude problems. I think I was just able to inspire something in themselves about their intelligence and worth. It made me proud to be a teacher.

I don't actually see any contradiction, which is why I think it's a fallacious argument. As many men have already pointed out in this thread what they want in a wife or good friend and what they want in a quick shag is entirely opposite. The "experiment" is carried out in a bar, where we can assume most men are there to find the latter

The lawyer then complains that men say they prefer intelligent women on a forum that itself presumably discusses more intellectually challenging matters.

Where's the contradiction in that?

Men like a woman who can hold a decent conversation (and vice versa). When they want to have that conversation rather depends if they are at a dinner party or on the lash after work. A bar is usually the venue for foolish light-hearted banter rather than a debate on the socio-economics of tax harmonisation in Europe.

I also take issue with the way, in the articles you posted, that marriage is used as a measure of what men want, or how 'successful' in love a woman is. Marriage is not the be all and end all. For many, myself included, it is not even a goal. Many intelligent men - and women! - are not married by choice - a thought that does not seem to occur to the researchers. I'd say around 80% of my friends are not married. They are however in loving, stable relationships, with men their equals.

In fact one could play the devil's advocate and say that the more intelligent, highly educated and independent a woman is, the less she wants or needs to be married (note: I did not say the less she needs a man). The statistics are thus more a case of women's choice, than men not desiring them.

The author opened the article with the words " ... Enough of the men on this forum accusing us of being vacuous, materialistic, image-obsessed bimbos! ... " but then goes on to state what many men actually pursue. These contradictions were not the author's, but the combined criticisms and demonstrated preferences of certain types of men.

Also, unless you are very familiar with the social culture of Thailand and this forum in particular, I would advise you to refrain from using the opinions of men here as some sort of random survey of what most men want. This is a very self-selected group *(who very much fit the contradictions I might add; just have yourself a look around at some of their discussions about Western women, and then what most of them end up marrying).

So yes, I disagree with your initial interpretation of the author's statement, but agree that venue was limited. However, there are also plenty of relationships that have begun in a bar/pub, so I think it is a bit of a blanket statement to say that they are all looking for one-night-stands. Some are looking for attractive women with the promise of sex at some point. I've actually met some of my boyfriends in bars/clubs, *and there have been plenty of other similar articles that analyze the singles scene of bars/pubs/clubs in major metropolitan areas. Some are pure meat markets, and some are very good singles' venues. *There is often a good mix of different club scenes in major cities, especially New York. The research I participated in was held across a wide variety of these scenes. However, there was a definite difference in response (bimbo/bright) depending on neighborhood venues. The uptown venues (older and more conservative) produced results that were more in line with the "bimbo" hypothesis.

I agree with you on the marriage point, in terms of it being a choice rather than a measure, but I think the articles were written mostly in reaction to the first one that came out by the "low-intelligence" writer. It goes without saying that a large proportion of modern, successful women are forgoing marriage; that's already been reported widely.

I find all this "what men want" discussion to be pointless. When you meet someone, you either click or you don't, you can't force someone to like you, he will either be intersted or not & regardless of how you act or think he wants you to act, your true nature will always come out in the end.

I saw a funny book the other day called something like "he just not that into you" it was a honest guide to why some men don't call or why the guy you like doesn't ask you out again.

Once you have reached the stage where you can call your relationship a relationship he already knows you have bad habits & still likes you for them. And I don't know about anyone else but I don't want have in-depth intellectual conversations with my man, I have girlfriends to discuss girlie things with, work for my mental stimulation & my husband for the nookie & lovin & talks about our future.

Well, for a discussion that you find pointless, you've certainly been able to add a few points

this is all fascinating but now it's going off topic. I'm sure some people are happy with a partner who pretends to love them & who enjoys being played but can keep all the eggs in their basket & some of us like a partner who actually does love us & has no need to manipulate or pout/do silent treatement & live within a more equal structure

To remind everyone the topic is "what men want" NOT " let's slag off western women AGAIN" ok.

Precisely

*edit

Edited March 11, 2006 by kat

[Boo]

Pointless in the sense of there is no standard receipe for what men want, I thought the rest of my post made that clear? Obviously not

[kat]

Well, being that this is a discussion forum, and this is a discussion thread of which you are a participant, I find your comment rather pointless, as a matter of fact

[kat]

Actually, I just tried to edit the above post but I guess it's too late. I'd like to apologize for the above statement, because I think it's petty.

Sorry.

Edited March 11, 2006 by kat

[HarryHerb]

Well, from what I've witnessed, it's quite easy to manipulate most men on this forum into some kind of virtual lust, just by portraying one's self as some sort of "teddy girl" (thanks Khall!), or by posting post-op or bedroom-styled, glossed-up, vanity photos.

How true. And how sad.

Also, unless you are very familiar with the social culture of Thailand and this forum in particular, I would advise you to refrain from using the opinions of men here as some sort of random survey of what most men want. This is a very self-selected group *(who very much fit the contradictions I might add; just have yourself a look around at some of their discussions about Western women, and then what most of them end up marrying).

I was using these opinions precisely to prove that any "random" survey of an entire gender's opinions is impossible - including yours and the experiment done by the female lawyer-slash-model-slash-social-commentator.

Men's desires and opinions, I would like to assume, are as subtle, complex and contradictory as women's. They differ according to the individual, the situation and, yes, even the time of day. So therefore there simply is no contradiction (I repeat) in wanting on the one hand to discuss issues on a forum with an intelligent woman and entering into a physical relationship with someone dumb but whom they find non-threatening and attractive. It is a personal choice.

Thankfully there are many other men whose egos are able to withstand an equal partner.

[LaoPo]

I think you just made a lot of guys here on the forum quite curious about your looks...you must be stunning Lady (or is it girl?)

LaoPo

Well, from what I've witnessed, it's quite easy to manipulate most men on this forum into some kind of virtual lust, just by portraying one's self as some sort of "teddy girl" (thanks Khall!), or by posting post-op or bedroom-styled, glossed-up, vanity photos.

I'm a woman, LaoPo. I have my good days, and my bad days, like every other woman. I tend to rely more on my intellect and truth more than my looks. I'm honest to a fault, but I'm real, and also compassionate. I don't really wear makeup because I've always preferred more sleep in the morning, but lately I feel that I should find the time to wear makeup for fun. I've always appealed to males of all ages since I was thirteen, and somehow, this hasn't slowed down even though I am well over thirty. The 10 and 12-year-old boys that had obvious crushes on me this year were a combination of good, hard-working students, and the smart but delinquent, with associated attitude problems. I think I was just able to inspire something in themselves about their intelligence and worth. It made me proud to be a teacher.

I was trying to make a compliment to you but I can assure you that I've never felt any kind of 'virtual lust' towards you not even when you mentioned that two 10-12 year old boys/students had a crush on you.

Maybe it's because I'm a man since I can't quite follow your comments and views but it's odd to believe that these young boys had a crush on you (a lady-teacher of well over 30 -your words-) just because of your or their intelligence and 'truth/worth'.

But, no doubt, according to your selfdescription you have to have a kind of charisma that is unique to men of all ages. So, I think you're blessed in some way but I feel a bit strange about your remark "it's quite easy to manipulate most men on this forum" since I wonder why you or any other Lady on this forum would like to 'manipulate' the men on this forum?

I am a very honest and sincere man and, just speaking for myself, never tried or will try to manipulate or deceive a Lady on this forum or anywhere else.

Why would I?

BTW...I'm a very happily married man and have never felt more happy in my life....so it would be difficult (if not impossible) for me to have a crush on you, ever! No offence meant though.

sincerely

LaoPo

[kat]

HH:

You don't see a contradiction between men complaining about shallow, self-obsessed, materialistic and dumb women, and then going out and banging the first woman they find with these attributes? I don't know what you call a contradiction, but in this case I definitely see a discrepancy between what men say, and what they do. I agree that there is longterm and shorterm desire, but there is a cultural backlash in the West right now against modern relationships. This doesn't mean that every man desires or craves a pre-modern relationship or woman, or even wants the same things, but there is definitely a phenomenom right now concerning "what men want" concerning "traditional" and "modern" women. *And increasingly, a larger proportion of Western men are eschewing women with "modern" values and higher education for those without. However, there is a definite overwhelming demographic to many of these men. Does this mean that ALL of them are exactly the same - of course not. You do not need identical subjects to ascertain a pattern. That's an overgeneralization, of which arguments that state "we are all the same, or we are all different" are not exempt.

Of course we are all different, with complex and not very complex desires, but I think underneath all of these differences there are definite patterns about what men and women want. So much so, that it is a topic that has come up a lot recently, across many different categories. And in my view, the information and patterns emerging from some of these discussions do not seem very random at all.

LaoPo quote: "... was trying to make a compliment to you but I can assure you that I've never felt any kind of 'virtual lust' towards you not even when you mentioned that two 10-12 year old boys/students had a crush on you."

I'm sorry LP - I should have made it more clear that I wasn't directing these sentiments at you personally. I was speaking in general. I never even considered that your comment was anything more than a very nice compliment. Thanks very much

Edited March 11, 2006 by kat

[sbk]

I have to wonder how much of this age based? We get so many younger people here (average age is 23) and the guys are far more open to the idea of an equal woman than alot of the men posting here. I think that the latest generation has come of age in a time when women have always worked (everybody's mother works) and women expect to work. The "traditional" values that so many men here espouse are not embraced by the majority of these youngsters, as near as I can tell.

[britmaveric]

LaoPo - having met Kat I can assure you she's a sweetheart. I'll admit her intelligence is what would first attract me and she is quite lovely too.

[kat]

Thanks Brit. Although admittedly, I don't know whether to take that as a compliment or a back-handed comment about how I look.

[Boo]

kat Today, 2006-03-11 11:38:49 | Post #94|

Actually, I just tried to edit the above post but I guess it's too late. I'd like to apologize for the above statement, because I think it's petty.

Sorry.

[LaoPo]

Britmaveric and Kat:

Both your remarks show a fine example how men and women look to the world, themselves and each other........different, and that is the beauty of our world and love in general.

Of course! men and women are, and think different that's why we prefer not to live alone and find ourselves the most unique partner and share our lives with.

For better and for worse.....

LaoPo

Edited March 11, 2006 by LaoPo

[kat]

Boo: Is there a reason that you needed to include my IP in your response?

Edited March 11, 2006 by kat

[Boo]

no

[kat]

Right. Speaking of petty ...

Thanks for not letting me stand out there alone

[Boo]

your ip is visible when copied & pasted. why u think it is an issue when quoted is paranoia, nothing more..

Don't make issues of things that aren't there Kat. I will remove it if it makes you feel better.

[will2go]

HAH!!! skip all the gushy crap - Usher put it as succinctly as anyone could in his tune, what men want is "A LADY IN THE STREET AND A FREAK IN THE BED" - period (of course if she has some wit to go along with this it will help ensure that the "want" endures...).

[kat]

If I wanted to make an issue of of it, I woudn't have made a joke about it.

I don't know enough about the implications of quoting an IP as you just did. Maybe it is visible when copied and pasted, but I've never seen it visibly quoted like this, and most likely neither have a lot of people.

Edited March 11, 2006 by kat

[HarryHerb]

increasingly, a larger proportion of Western men are eschewing women with "modern" values and higher education for those without. However, there is a definite overwhelming demographic to many of these men. Does this mean that ALL of them are exactly the same - of course not. You do not need identical subjects to ascertain a pattern. That's an overgeneralization, of which arguments that state "we are all the same, or we are all different" are not exempt.

There are 2 points here

1) That men say they prefer intelligent women then sleep with airheads.

2) That men prefer airheads full stop.

1) I still maintain there is nothing contradictory in this behaviour - we are talking about different types of women being required for different situations. They prefer intelligent women for conversation / socialising / work colleagues and airheads for sex. All you can infer from this is they don't like to be challenged in bed! I am not condoning this, simply saying it is their personal choice.

2) I don't believe this to be a particularly new phenomenon - although as sbk points out, the trend should in theory be going in the other direction as younger men have for the most part been brought up to accept women as their equals.

I am a great disbeliever in generalisations and I also agree that statements that veer in the opposite direction overlook the fact that there are clear patterns of behaviour. My issue was simply to make it clear that not all men prefer airheads, only a certain demographic - as you now point out, so finally it seems we agree on something

As to why there is this increase, one could also look to women themselves. After all, many men just want whatever women will give them To go back to the original post, the ubiquity of bimbo Paris Hilton / Nicole Ritchie type 'role models', who do nothing except look available (I was going to say 'pretty', but thought better of it) and live from another man's money - in this case Daddy's - has certainly altered younger men's imaginations, as well as those of the younger women who seek to emulate them.

[will2go]

after reading her message in 'piercing down there', I think I may want Uma...

[kat]

after reading her message in 'piercing down there', I think I may want Uma...

55555 That's even funnier.

[britmaveric]

Thanks Brit. Although admittedly, I don't know whether to take that as a compliment or a back-handed comment about how I look.

Compliment love! You are beautiful no doubt about it, in case anyone doubted what I said in my previous post.

[kat]

increasingly, a larger proportion of Western men are eschewing women with "modern" values and higher education for those without. However, there is a definite overwhelming demographic to many of these men. Does this mean that ALL of them are exactly the same - of course not. You do not need identical subjects to ascertain a pattern. That's an overgeneralization, of which arguments that state "we are all the same, or we are all different" are not exempt.

There are 2 points here

1) That men say they prefer intelligent women then sleep with airheads.

2) That men prefer airheads full stop.

1) I still maintain there is nothing contradictory in this behaviour - we are talking about different types of women being required for different situations. They prefer intelligent women for conversation / socialising / work colleagues and airheads for sex. All you can infer from this is they don't like to be challenged in bed! I am not condoning this, simply saying it is their personal choice.

2) I don't believe this to be a particularly new phenomenon - although as sbk points out, the trend should in theory be going in the other direction as younger men have for the most part been brought up to accept women as their equals.

I am a great disbeliever in generalisations and I also agree that statements that veer in the opposite direction overlook the fact that there are clear patterns of behaviour. My issue was simply to make it clear that not all men prefer airheads, only a certain demographic - as you now point out, so finally it seems we agree on something

As to why there is this increase, one could also look to women themselves. After all, many men just want whatever women will give them To go back to the original post, the ubiquity of bimbo Paris Hilton / Nicole Ritchie type 'role models', who do nothing except look available (I was going to say 'pretty', but thought better of it) and live from another man's money - in this case Daddy's - has certainly altered younger men's imaginations, as well as those of the younger women who seek to emulate them.

1. Well, if men are sleeping with airheads and choosing them for sexual relationships rather than equally attractive but brainy women, then you are summing up the entire point of the article: men are more sexually attracted to less intelligent women.

2. I already made that point in one of my first points, the articles I quoted also made that point, SBK has now made the same point, I alluded to this very point again when I mentioned demographics and "older and conservative", and you are now concurring with said point.

... Yeah, I agree.

Brit's quote: "Compliment love! You are beautiful no doubt about it, in case anyone doubted what I said in my previous post. "

are you breathing a sigh of relief there, mate? You just pulled yourself out of boatloads of trouble with that one

Edited March 11, 2006 by kat

[chuchok]

You have to ask yourself then, what is the reason that men are sleeping with airheads and choosing them for sexual relationships rather than equally attractive but intelligent women?

[britmaveric]

You have to ask yourself then, what is the reason that men are sleeping with airheads and choosing them for sexual relationships rather than equally attractive but intelligent women?

Lazy and can't be bothered to put in the work that a real relationship requires would be my best guess. I'm pretty confident that beautiful/intelligent women have also gone the shallow route on a number of occassions and have Teddy Boys.

[chuchok]

You have to ask yourself then, what is the reason that men are sleeping with airheads and choosing them for sexual relationships rather than equally attractive but intelligent women?

Lazy and can't be bothered to put in the work that a real relationship requires would be my best guess. I'm pretty confident that beautiful/intelligent women have also gone the shallow route on a number of occassions and have Teddy Boys.

Nooo brit, surely not!

[Boo]

Secret for you chuckok, women like a good looking airhead man on occasion too but tend to lose interest pretty quick after the initial lust phase. (so I have heard )

[chuchok]

Secret for you chuckok, women like a good looking airhead man on occasion too but tend to lose interest pretty quick after the initial lust phase (so I have heard )

I'm sure both species can relate to that. i've been told that "pretty quick" has been measured in milli-seconds....

Edited March 11, 2006 by chuchok

[Boo]

Yeah, I've met him

[HarryHerb]

Secret for you chuckok, women like a good looking airhead man on occasion too but tend to lose interest pretty quick after the initial lust phase. (so I have heard )

Not so secret Boo - how else d'you explain the popularity of the somewhat intellectually challenged David Beckham? He can't string a sentence together (not to mention his squeaky voice) but most women would snap Posh in two to jump into bed with him.

But marry him, or even interview him at a press conference? Yawn. No thanks.

And where's the contradiction in that?