Thai Soldier Tells Bangkok Court Of ' Men In Black'

[rubl]

But, that's not the point....

The point is that he saw fit to detail the type of weapon, but didn't mention how the MIBs got from the BTS tracks to head towards Henry Dunant. In fact, he didn't even mention that they were on the tracks.

He did also state that they were "hiding behind a pillar". I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that, along the rail bed, itself, there are many "pillars" behind which one could hide. Any pillars would be at stations or at street level.

Could it be that the Thai soldier didn't mention how the MiB got from the BTS tracks because he wasn't looking there with a team send out to cover that part. He was looking around him, mostly forward probably, that's why he saw MiB partially behind pillars.

This is just one of the witnesses being questioned and/or telling what he saw and did. You can't blame this particular person for what others saw, allegedly or true.

[Curt1591]

"He falls into the 'I am not a redshirt supporter but...' category. Different strategy, same objective."

What, pray tell, is my "objective"?

[jackspratt]

[

It is safe to wear red here in Udon every day. Got rid of all my yellow polo shirts. Didn't want my car to be trashed again.

What nonsense.

Given that yellow polo shirts are strongly associated with the King, it is inconceivable that anyone, and particularly a farang, would be picked out for that reason alone.

But I am willing to reconsider that conclusion if you can post a photo of your trashed vehicle, and perhaps a copy of the police report and/or insurance claim.

Nope.

Didn't think so.

[OzMick]

The M16 rifle has a distinctive profile and sound signature. Any experienced officer should be able to distinguish it from either.

There are many variations of M16s. The "sound signature" isn't too different between an M16, M16 variant, or any other semi-auto rifle that will fire that caliber. Yes, the M16 is select-fire. But, if fired upon in full-auto, I'm sure that would have been mentioned.

As far as experience officer goes, I don't know how it works in the Thai army, but in the US armed forces, "Lieutenant" usually means you are fresh out of Uni. In Vietnam, the were some of the dumbest SOBs!

Judging by the Thai Army Colonel who live across the street from me, rank has nothing whatsoever to do with being a knowledgeable soldier.

But, that's not the point....

The point is that he saw fit to detail the type of weapon, but didn't mention how the MIBs got from the BTS tracks to head towards Henry Dunant. In fact, he didn't even mention that they were on the tracks.

He did also state that they were "hiding behind a pillar". I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that, along the rail bed, itself, there are many "pillars" behind which one could hide. Any pillars would be at stations or at street level.

Your original post indicated that you consider an M16 difficult to recognise, and I was pointing out that was not the case. By the time a lieutenant has been commissioned, IMHO he would have heard an M16 fired many hundreds of times, and should easily distinguish that sound signature from that of an AK47 or a 7.62 NATO rifle. If he had stated the variant or even the serial number, I would suspect his testimony. As stated, there is no reason to.

I also believe that even fresh out of college US army lieutenants (many conscripted) would undergo basic training before being sent to a war zone, and would certainly recognise an M16.

Edited March 9, 2013 by OzMick

[jbrain]

The Lieutenant seems to be good at details, he identified one MIB's weapon as an "M16 assault rifle". Personally, with such an eye for detail, and precise testimony, I am puzzled by the lack of mention of how the MIBs jumped, belayed, or maybe flew from the BTS tracks.

Maybe, just maybe, there were more than 2 MIB around.

When I see some BTS guards walking on Sukhumvit at any given day, doesn't mean there are none on at the BTS stations.

Edited March 9, 2013 by jbrain

[rubl]

[

It is safe to wear red here in Udon every day. Got rid of all my yellow polo shirts. Didn't want my car to be trashed again.

What nonsense.

Given that yellow polo shirts are strongly associated with the King, it is inconceivable that anyone, and particularly a farang, would be picked out for that reason alone.

But I am willing to reconsider that conclusion if you can post a photo of your trashed vehicle, and perhaps a copy of the police report and/or insurance claim.

Nope.

Didn't think so.

It's against forum rules to get into too personal data. Also I doubt there are many posters who would like to publish such personal effects.

BTW if pimay1 would post a photo of a vandalized vehicle, what value would it have (to you) ?

[hellodolly]

Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, Thailand's top forensics expert, and a person who sides with no one, concluded

.

Funny how the same Dr. Pornthip can vacillate between being referred to Thailand's top pathologist to Thailand's biggest fool, over her insistence on the reliability of GT200 bomb detector, depending on how she is needed to be portrayed by a particular side on a particular issue.

.

It does seem strange doesn't it? But when you look further in to it the Thailands top pathologist endorsement rings out far more than the one "Top Fool" endorsement. She was involved in a number of investigations during the incidents 0f 2010, including proof of nitrates residue being found in Chualalongkorn Hospital of grenades fired at Sala Daeng (hence the "invasion") and of course this one with the proof of direction of fire, cartridges found etc. Presumably she was a "top fool" when investigating the Sala Daeng incident and probably is "top fool" again when investigating this incident under Abhisit but presenting the info to the Inquest she'll be "top fool' again but from a differenent set of people - it's kind of like that Tharit chap isn't it??

Never paid ity that much attention but I had heard widely conflicting reports about her on other investigations. I couple that fact with Thailand is not really that up on scientific investigation yet. To many Thai Visa readers watch American Television and expect Thailand to be as up to date as the TV shows.

[hellodolly]

The M16 rifle has a distinctive profile and sound signature. Any experienced officer should be able to distinguish it from either.

There are many variations of M16s. The "sound signature" isn't too different between an M16, M16 variant, or any other semi-auto rifle that will fire that caliber. Yes, the M16 is select-fire. But, if fired upon in full-auto, I'm sure that would have been mentioned.

As far as experience officer goes, I don't know how it works in the Thai army, but in the US armed forces, "Lieutenant" usually means you are fresh out of Uni. In Vietnam, the were some of the dumbest SOBs!

Judging by the Thai Army Colonel who live across the street from me, rank has nothing whatsoever to do with being a knowledgeable soldier.

But, that's not the point....

The point is that he saw fit to detail the type of weapon, but didn't mention how the MIBs got from the BTS tracks to head towards Henry Dunant. In fact, he didn't even mention that they were on the tracks.

He did also state that they were "hiding behind a pillar". I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that, along the rail bed, itself, there are many "pillars" behind which one could hide. Any pillars would be at stations or at street level.

Really can not comment on any thing you say but on the other hand the picture does not need explaining. It shows the MIB behind the pillar.

[Buchholz]

Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, Thailand's top forensics expert, and a person who sides with no one, concluded

.

Funny how the same Dr. Pornthip can vacillate between being referred to Thailand's top pathologist to Thailand's biggest fool, over her insistence on the reliability of GT200 bomb detector, depending on how she is needed to be portrayed by a particular side on a particular issue.

.

It does seem strange doesn't it? But when you look further in to it the Thailands top pathologist endorsement rings out far more than the one "Top Fool" endorsement.

Actually, there's been far more claims over the past year ascribing her to fool status. It's only when the agenda is different on a different topic does she return to her previous exalted and credible status.

.

.

[rubl]

Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, Thailand's top forensics expert, and a person who sides with no one, concluded

.

Funny how the same Dr. Pornthip can vacillate between being referred to Thailand's top pathologist to Thailand's biggest fool, over her insistence on the reliability of GT200 bomb detector, depending on how she is needed to be portrayed by a particular side on a particular issue.

.

It does seem strange doesn't it? But when you look further in to it the Thailands top pathologist endorsement rings out far more than the one "Top Fool" endorsement. She was involved in a number of investigations during the incidents 0f 2010, including proof of nitrates residue being found in Chualalongkorn Hospital of grenades fired at Sala Daeng (hence the "invasion") and of course this one with the proof of direction of fire, cartridges found etc. Presumably she was a "top fool" when investigating the Sala Daeng incident and probably is "top fool" again when investigating this incident under Abhisit but presenting the info to the Inquest she'll be "top fool' again but from a differenent set of people - it's kind of like that Tharit chap isn't it??

It's a bit low to remind us of this 'honest mistake' of storming a hospital. Also then only UDD leader Dr. weng already apologized saying

something like 'not planned, carried away, no harm done'. THe grenades fired only killed one and wounded a few others, none of them red shirts, so don't worry.

2010-05-07

"MD Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand, stated today that she had not firmly specified the origins of grenade launcher that attacked the

multi-colored Alliance of Patriots at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010. She asked all involved parties not to make any conclusions

just yet."

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-225722653/thailand-md-khunying-pornthip.html

BTW does this refer to this case?

"Former ranger arrested for allegedly firing M79 at BTS Saladaeng"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Former-ranger-arrested-for-allegedly-firing-M79-at-30144956.html

[waza]

Dr. Pornthip Rojanasunand, Thailand's top forensics expert, and a person who sides with no one, concluded

.

Funny how the same Dr. Pornthip can vacillate between being referred to Thailand's top pathologist to Thailand's biggest fool, over her insistence on the reliability of GT200 bomb detector, depending on how she is needed to be portrayed by a particular side on a particular issue.

.

It does seem strange doesn't it? But when you look further in to it the Thailands top pathologist endorsement rings out far more than the one "Top Fool" endorsement. She was involved in a number of investigations during the incidents 0f 2010, including proof of nitrates residue being found in Chualalongkorn Hospital of grenades fired at Sala Daeng (hence the "invasion") and of course this one with the proof of direction of fire, cartridges found etc. Presumably she was a "top fool" when investigating the Sala Daeng incident and probably is "top fool" again when investigating this incident under Abhisit but presenting the info to the Inquest she'll be "top fool' again but from a differenent set of people - it's kind of like that Tharit chap isn't it??

It's a bit low to remind us of this 'honest mistake' of storming a hospital. Also then only UDD leader Dr. weng already apologized saying

something like 'not planned, carried away, no harm done'. THe grenades fired only killed one and wounded a few others, none of them red shirts, so don't worry.

2010-05-07

"MD Khunying Pornthip Rojanasunand, stated today that she had not firmly specified the origins of grenade launcher that attacked the

multi-colored Alliance of Patriots at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010. She asked all involved parties not to make any conclusions

just yet."

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-225722653/thailand-md-khunying-pornthip.html

BTW does this refer to this case?

"Former ranger arrested for allegedly firing M79 at BTS Saladaeng"

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Former-ranger-arrested-for-allegedly-firing-M79-at-30144956.html

In the words of Dick Dastardly, "Drat, drat, and double drat!, Triple drat!, Curses, foiled again! eh Muttley"

Edited March 9, 2013 by waza

[Thaddeus]

He'll still want a medal.

[Curt1591]

Really can not comment on any thing you say but on the other hand the picture does not need explaining. It shows the MIB behind the pillar.

Possibly, it does need explaining ...

Wall: http://tinyurl.com/wall-v-pillar

Pillar: http://tinyurl.com/pillar-v-wall

The type of weapon used, and whether or not the lieutenant is qualified to discern the type, is irrelevant. My point was simple.

We are shown a photo, in the context of of the discussion of this article, implying that the guys in the photo are the "MIBs" in question.

The lieutenant is detailed enough to mention the type of weapon they used, but not how they exited the tracks. With soldiers to their right, soldiers to their left, and soldiers on the tracks, I think that would have been a bigger part of the story.

Access to the BTS tracks has always been an issue. Soldiers, for quite some time, had occupied all the stations. Soldiers, for quite some time, occupied the tracks. After the temple incident, Suthep explained it away. Apparently, that day, the day with so much action, the soldiers didn't occupy the tracks, only the stations, stations that do not overlook the temple. I always wondered, if what Suthep says was true, how did the MIB get on the tracks?

But now, we have a highly qualified, expert lieutenant, telling us that soldiers were providing cover from those tracks. This would make it even harder for MIB to get there and/or escape from there.

Unfortunately, arguing anything red vs yellow demonstrates how nothing will ever change in.

One side can not always be right, while another side is always wrong. But, this is what so many firmly believe.

[yoshiwara]

"He falls into the 'I am not a redshirt supporter but...' category. Different strategy, same objective."

What, pray tell, is my "objective"?

Red whitewash.

[jackspratt]

[

It is safe to wear red here in Udon every day. Got rid of all my yellow polo shirts. Didn't want my car to be trashed again.

What nonsense.

Given that yellow polo shirts are strongly associated with the King, it is inconceivable that anyone, and particularly a farang, would be picked out for that reason alone.

But I am willing to reconsider that conclusion if you can post a photo of your trashed vehicle, and perhaps a copy of the police report and/or insurance claim.

Nope.

Didn't think so.

It's against forum rules to get into too personal data. Also I doubt there are many posters who would like to publish such personal effects.

BTW if pimay1 would post a photo of a vandalized vehicle, what value would it have (to you) ?

It's about making things up ie credibility.

p.s. Your attempt at Modding is noted.

Edited March 10, 2013 by jackspratt

[Pimay1]

[

It is safe to wear red here in Udon every day. Got rid of all my yellow polo shirts. Didn't want my car to be trashed again.

What nonsense. Given that yellow polo shirts are strongly associated with the King, it is inconceivable that anyone, and particularly a farang, would be picked out for that reason alone. But I am willing to reconsider that conclusion if you can post a photo of your trashed vehicle, and perhaps a copy of the police report and/or insurance claim.

Nope. Didn't think so.

It's against forum rules to get into too personal data. Also I doubt there are many posters who would like to publish such personal effects. BTW if pimay1 would post a photo of a vandalized vehicle, what value would it have (to you) ?

It's about making things up ie credibility. p.s. Your attempt at Modding is noted.

I posted about this incident when it happened. If you think I made it up then up to you.

[OzMick]

Really can not comment on any thing you say but on the other hand the picture does not need explaining. It shows the MIB behind the pillar.

Possibly, it does need explaining ...

Wall: http://tinyurl.com/wall-v-pillar

Pillar: http://tinyurl.com/pillar-v-wall

Black shirt snipers at temple.jpg

The type of weapon used, and whether or not the lieutenant is qualified to discern the type, is irrelevant. My point was simple.

We are shown a photo, in the context of of the discussion of this article, implying that the guys in the photo are the "MIBs" in question.

The lieutenant is detailed enough to mention the type of weapon they used, but not how they exited the tracks. With soldiers to their right, soldiers to their left, and soldiers on the tracks, I think that would have been a bigger part of the story.

Access to the BTS tracks has always been an issue. Soldiers, for quite some time, had occupied all the stations. Soldiers, for quite some time, occupied the tracks. After the temple incident, Suthep explained it away. Apparently, that day, the day with so much action, the soldiers didn't occupy the tracks, only the stations, stations that do not overlook the temple. I always wondered, if what Suthep says was true, how did the MIB get on the tracks?

But now, we have a highly qualified, expert lieutenant, telling us that soldiers were providing cover from those tracks. This would make it even harder for MIB to get there and/or escape from there.

Unfortunately, arguing anything red vs yellow demonstrates how nothing will ever change in.

One side can not always be right, while another side is always wrong. But, this is what so many firmly believe.

The lieutenant gave evidence that he saw them clearly, carrying the type of weapon used in the attack on the wat (but irrelevant). There are photographs showing them there.

He didn't give evidence as to where they went, most likely because he doesn't know. Neither you nor anybody else here knows. Does ignorance trump witness and photographic evidence?

[whybother]

<snip

He did also state that they were "hiding behind a pillar". I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that, along the rail bed, itself, there are many "pillars" behind which one could hide. Any pillars would be at stations or at street level.

Between the Ratchaprasong intersection and Siam Station, there are two levels of tracks, so the lower track level would have pillars.

[Robby nz]

It would appear that this is the first time any of the army who were on the scene that day have been asked to tell what they saw.

Now we have an army officer testifying in court under oath as to what he saw.

I understand the 'under oath' bit will mean nothing to red supporters as it means nothing to the reds however there are some in this world who do take it seriously and until I see otherwise I for one would be prepared to give this officer the benefit of the doubt particularly when what he says is backed up by Pix from a different source.

I suspect there will be many other soldiers who were there on the day who could also give evidence of what they saw, If they were asked.

Like the soldiers who were sent after the men in black on that day.

I suspect it would not be to difficult to identify these men and call them as witnesses so then they could corroborate or refute the officers story.

But then again corruption could rear its ugly head and someone could get rich very quick if they said the right thing.

Yea if a country, government is built on corruption you are never going to know what is the truth.

[hellodolly]

[

It is safe to wear red here in Udon every day. Got rid of all my yellow polo shirts. Didn't want my car to be trashed again.

What nonsense. Given that yellow polo shirts are strongly associated with the King, it is inconceivable that anyone, and particularly a farang, would be picked out for that reason alone. But I am willing to reconsider that conclusion if you can post a photo of your trashed vehicle, and perhaps a copy of the police report and/or insurance claim.

Nope. Didn't think so.

It's against forum rules to get into too personal data. Also I doubt there are many posters who would like to publish such personal effects. BTW if pimay1 would post a photo of a vandalized vehicle, what value would it have (to you) ?

It's about making things up ie credibility. p.s. Your attempt at Modding is noted.

I posted about this incident when it happened. If you think I made it up then up to you.

Here we are three years down the line and the red shirts continue with their denial despite well documented proof of their involvement.

The length they will go to.

A picture

copy of the police report

copy of the insurance claim.

He forgot to mention a copy of your rental agreement to prove you live in Udon.

I wonder what kind of proof he would need to believe the red shirts burned up a fire engine here in Chiang Mai.

Smarts are not there long suit. If any one disagrees with that statement pray tell what burning up a fire engine accomplishes.

Just picked this up on another thread posted today.

Pretty well speaks to the red shirts denial system.

"

KHON Kaen: -- Hundreds of red shirts yesterday gathered in Khon Kaen University before a Democrat Party rally at the venue.

They also set up a stage on a loudspeaker truck with leaders giving a

speech at the same time as the Democrats. Udon Thani red shirts leader

Kwanchai Sarakham (Praipana) observed the rally in the area.

Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, former secretary-general Suthep

Thaugsuban, spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, MP Issara Somchai and

Withoon Nambutr took part in the rally.

Democrat MP Satit Wongnongtaey posted on Twitter that the red shirts had

sealed the entrance to the university and had told the people via

community radio that the Democrats' rally had been cancelled. However,

the rally, which was scheduled to scrutinise the government on the

amnesty law and its loans, went on as scheduled."

A real bunch of Democratic lovers those red shirts in Udon Thani. I bet they were all graduates of the red shirt school on Democracy. If some one disagrees with you do not show them where they are wrong and you are right (an impossibility) instead shout louder than them and lie.

Edited March 10, 2013 by hellodolly

[Pimay1]

It's about making things up ie credibility. p.s. Your attempt at Modding is noted.

I posted about this incident when it happened. If you think I made it up then up to you.

Here we are three years down the line and the red shirts continue with their denial despite well documented proof of their involvement.

The length they will go to.

A picture

copy of the police report

copy of the insurance claim.

He forgot to mention a copy of your rental agreement to prove you live in Udon.

I wonder what kind of proof he would need to believe the red shirts burned up a fire engine here in Chiang Mai.

Smarts are not there long suit. If any one disagrees with that statement pray tell what burning up a fire engine accomplishes.

Just picked this up on another thread posted today.

Pretty well speaks to the red shirts denial system.

"

KHON Kaen: -- Hundreds of red shirts yesterday gathered in Khon Kaen University before a Democrat Party rally at the venue.

They also set up a stage on a loudspeaker truck with leaders giving a

speech at the same time as the Democrats. Udon Thani red shirts leader

Kwanchai Sarakham (Praipana) observed the rally in the area.

Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, former secretary-general Suthep

Thaugsuban, spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut, MP Issara Somchai and

Withoon Nambutr took part in the rally.

Democrat MP Satit Wongnongtaey posted on Twitter that the red shirts had

sealed the entrance to the university and had told the people via

community radio that the Democrats' rally had been cancelled. However,

the rally, which was scheduled to scrutinise the government on the

amnesty law and its loans, went on as scheduled."

A real bunch of Democratic lovers those red shirts in Udon Thani. I bet they were all graduates of the red shirt school on Democracy. If some one disagrees with you do not show them where they are wrong and you are right (an impossibility) instead shout louder than them and lie.

Chiang Mai?

Khon Kaen?

What have they got to do with Pimay's reference to a highly improbable "trashing" of his car by Udon "red shirts" at some unknown time in the past?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/february/22/newsid_4245000/4245877.stm

Are you related?

And let's not start on credibility.

Let's call a truce guys. What I described indeed happened. But it is not worth arguing over.

[animatic]

Really can not comment on any thing you say but on the other hand the picture does not need explaining. It shows the MIB behind the pillar.

Possibly, it does need explaining ...

Wall: http://tinyurl.com/wall-v-pillar

Pillar: http://tinyurl.com/pillar-v-wall

Black shirt snipers at temple.jpg

The type of weapon used, and whether or not the lieutenant is qualified to discern the type, is irrelevant. My point was simple.

We are shown a photo, in the context of of the discussion of this article, implying that the guys in the photo are the "MIBs" in question.

The lieutenant is detailed enough to mention the type of weapon they used, but not how they exited the tracks. With soldiers to their right, soldiers to their left, and soldiers on the tracks, I think that would have been a bigger part of the story.

Access to the BTS tracks has always been an issue. Soldiers, for quite some time, had occupied all the stations. Soldiers, for quite some time, occupied the tracks. After the temple incident, Suthep explained it away. Apparently, that day, the day with so much action, the soldiers didn't occupy the tracks, only the stations, stations that do not overlook the temple. I always wondered, if what Suthep says was true, how did the MIB get on the tracks?

But now, we have a highly qualified, expert lieutenant, telling us that soldiers were providing cover from those tracks. This would make it even harder for MIB to get there and/or escape from there.

Unfortunately, arguing anything red vs yellow demonstrates how nothing will ever change in.

One side can not always be right, while another side is always wrong. But, this is what so many firmly believe.

The lieutenant gave evidence that he saw them clearly, carrying the type of weapon used in the attack on the wat (but irrelevant). There are photographs showing them there.

He didn't give evidence as to where they went, most likely because he doesn't know. Neither you nor anybody else here knows. Does ignorance trump witness and photographic evidence?

It is not beyond the pale that a Lieutenant would have some binoculars available to him in this situation.

[waza]

Back on topic its good to hear a credible eye witness who just states the fact. Its a pity that some member try to turn what was a horror story into a fairy tale.

PS: Maybe thats why the red supporters use Fairy tale and cartoon charaters for their avatars.

[jackspratt]

Back on topic its good to hear a credible eye witness who just states the fact. Its a pity that some member try to turn what was a horror story into a fairy tale.

PS: Maybe thats why the red supporters use Fairy tale and cartoon charaters for their avatars.

What conclusion should we draw from the fact that you use a lot of bull for your avatar?

Edited March 10, 2013 by jackspratt

[waza]

Back on topic its good to hear a credible eye witness who just states the fact. Its a pity that some member try to turn what was a horror story into a fairy tale.

PS: Maybe thats why the red supporters use Fairy tale and cartoon charaters for their avatars.

What conclusion should we draw from the fact that you use a lot of bull for your avatar?

RED bull

PS: Good to see someone admits they are a red supporter most say " I dont support Thaksin, but"

Edited March 10, 2013 by waza

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.