Phuket Poll: Russian Tourists Equals ' No Money, No Matter'

[webfact]

Phuket Poll: Russian tourists equals 'No money, no matter'

The Phuket Gazette

In the media spotlight, Cherng Talay Administrative Organization (OrBorTor) President Ma-ann Samran holds up a license proving that a local business catering to Russian tourists in Phuket is operating legally. Photo: Christian Mouchet

PHUKET: -- In the latest Phuket Gazette online reader poll, asking whether the tourism infrastructure in Phuket is sufficiently developed to handle all the Russian visitors, 44% said it doesn’t matter, because very little Russian money reaches the pockets of Phuket residents anyway.

The remaining responses were evenly divided between those who believe the infrastructure for Russian tourists is sufficient, those who think we need more Russian-focused businesses and speakers, and those who think all we need is more Russian speakers.

When results were broken down per respondent group, a difference of opinion emerged between local foreign residents and Thai residents.

Local foreign residents felt twice as strongly as Thais and tourists that Phuket needs more Russian-speaking staff.

Thai residents, however, believe Phuket needs more than just additional Russian speakers. They outvoted foreign residents and tourists 2 to 1 in saying that Phuket needs more businesses to cater to Russians as well as more Russian speakers.

Of the 1,145 readers who responded to the poll (click here), only 5.5% had no opinion.

For the full poll results, click here.

Source: http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket_news/2013/Phuket-Poll-Russian-tourists-equals-No-money-no-matter-20436.html

-- Phuket Gazette 2013-03-09

[Guest]

44% said it doesn’t matter, because very little Russian money reaches the pockets of Phuket residents anyway.

This is one part I don't understand, how people can get to this conclusion. When there is inflow of people, it means that money is coming in. The money is spent mostly here in Phuket.

This money will be going down to for example bus drivers, hotels, restaurants etc. which employ locals.. who will buy food for their families, buy motorbikes or cars pay taxes etc.

Businesses make also some profit, which is spend to make new constructions -> money recycles again. Some part, will be sent back to the Russia or Turkey as profit of the operation.

[cheesyd]

Most Russian ( & Chinese) tourists are on package deals, money paid upfront before they leave home for all accomm, food, tours etc. Small businesses don't benefit, only a select few resorts, tour businesses. Money isn't as evenly spread around as with independent European visitors.

[Guest]

Yes, but the selected hotels will be hiring new staff and transportation companies more vans and drivers. Old small business owners can now apply to work for these larger companies. They will not get the same money as before naturally, which at least on transportation part, is a great thing.

Small economy failed with the greed. Now it's just a bit different economy. Still the money flows in, even if it's not put directly to hand of the small businesses. This change has been expected for an while.

Tourists has voted with their hard earned money.

[nakhonandy]

Have to agree with Cheesyd here.

I imagine Phuket is similar to Pattaya with regards Russians and indeed the newer Asian tourists.

Everything is paid up front and they use their money very sparsly.

All the money goes to selected businesses and very little elsewhere.

The only businesses that benefit from the Russians are the 7elevens and the various food marts where they buy booze and snacks before retreating to the beach/hotel/appartment.

Other than a minority they are never seen in bars or restaurants.

How do the local businesses benefit from that?

[RamblingSam]

From what I'm aware of many of these 'All in' package holidays, much of money goes to the travel organisers and the money for whatever trips, events are paid for, goes to 'falangs' who then probably sub-contract these out to Thais at as cheap as possible prices. While it may well mean that in theory tourists might not get'ripped off' their money goes to a much smaller and 'select' number of Thai's than would normally be the case, as the travel organisers and their cronies want to keep as much of the tourist's money as they can. Maybe I am being excessively cynical, but seems to be my impression of how these organisers operate!

[nakhonandy]

From what I'm aware of many of these 'All in' package holidays, much of money goes to the travel organisers and the money for whatever trips, events are paid for, goes to 'falangs' who then probably sub-contract these out to Thais at as cheap as possible prices. While it may well mean that in theory tourists might not get'ripped off' their money goes to a much smaller and 'select' number of Thai's than would normally be the case, as the travel organisers and their cronies want to keep as much of the tourist's money as they can. Maybe I am being excessively cynical, but seems to be my impression of how these organisers operate!

Not cynical at all, accurate, that is exactly how it works.

[Guest]

For the money itself it does not matter if it's paid before the trip or during the trip. What matters is how much money is paid to Thailand and Phuket. This is in overall scene.

When the trips have been paid upfront, the money is paid to the organizing companies, which then will move the money here. As they are larger entities, they can negotiate way better deals with the local companies than a person or family traveling by themselves could ever do.

This is a transformation from boutique services towards to the mass market. For customers this is a great news as they have larger companies to do the negotiations for them. They will get lower prices for almost the same experience if they would do trips by themselves.

The small companies can reinvent themselves by offering something new.. or they can offer their services to the larger companies, which will give steady income even on lower rates that they used to get.

In the larger picture when there is more money coming in to Phuket, it means that there is more taxes paid and therefore more money to be spend to the infrastructure (well.. to the 'studies' of new infrastructure).

There is more people who will need to eat, drink have a bit of fun, get their transportation, accommodation etc. etc. Money will flow from one layer to another.

There will also be new people who are going to buy their dream 'summer homes' in Phuket. Maybe some more construction, which requires work to be done here.

Some of the old type of rip-off businesses will be gone at some point and be replaced with more healthy business models. This will take years.

Phuket eradicated the European tourists some time ago by not giving a dump about the tourists and how they _feel_. Now it's time to adapt to the new Phuket, which is going to go forward, just a bit different way as it was done before.

[spidermike007]

Anybody know what percentage of overall tourists to Phuket are Russian? I was recently there, and it felt like 50% or more. Is that just in the high (winter) season? Any info would be appreciated.

[iSabai]

For the money itself it does not matter if it's paid before the trip or during the trip. What matters is how much money is paid to Thailand and Phuket. This is in overall scene.

When the trips have been paid upfront, the money is paid to the organizing companies, which then will move the money here. As they are larger entities, they can negotiate way better deals with the local companies than a person or family traveling by themselves could ever do.

This is a transformation from boutique services towards to the mass market. For customers this is a great news as they have larger companies to do the negotiations for them. They will get lower prices for almost the same experience if they would do trips by themselves.

The small companies can reinvent themselves by offering something new.. or they can offer their services to the larger companies, which will give steady income even on lower rates that they used to get.

In the larger picture when there is more money coming in to Phuket, it means that there is more taxes paid and therefore more money to be spend to the infrastructure (well.. to the 'studies' of new infrastructure).

There is more people who will need to eat, drink have a bit of fun, get their transportation, accommodation etc. etc. Money will flow from one layer to another.

There will also be new people who are going to buy their dream 'summer homes' in Phuket. Maybe some more construction, which requires work to be done here.

Some of the old type of rip-off businesses will be gone at some point and be replaced with more healthy business models. This will take years.

Phuket eradicated the European tourists some time ago by not giving a dump about the tourists and how they _feel_. Now it's time to adapt to the new Phuket, which is going to go forward, just a bit different way as it was done before.

But it still comes back full circle to the mindset of, "how much money can I stick in my pocket right now today?" Rather than, "how can I build, improve, and increase my business (and Phuket) for the future?"

As tolerant and used to things as I am here, it still seems that they're only good at cutting off their noses to spite their faces. (Oh yeah, and shooting themselves in the foot, usually both of 'em.)

[William_R]

In Pattaya a bunch of existing hotels are being renovated, and new ones being built, by a Chinese company. This includes hotels like VC and Day Night. Their target is Chinese tourists. While the hotels employ Thai workers, the big profits are staying in Chinese pockets. Like the Russians, Chinese tourists come here on a pre-paid package, take lots of photos and spend very little money. Why this sort of thing is being allowed by the authorities is pretty easy to figure out. :-)

[Suradit69]

Have to agree with Cheesyd here.

I imagine Phuket is similar to Pattaya with regards Russians and indeed the newer Asian tourists.

Everything is paid up front and they use their money very sparsly.

All the money goes to selected businesses and very little elsewhere.

The only businesses that benefit from the Russians are the 7elevens and the various food marts where they buy booze and snacks before retreating to the beach/hotel/appartment.

Other than a minority they are never seen in bars or restaurants.

How do the local businesses benefit from that?

They seem to flood the Tuesday-Friday market on Pattaya Tai. Haven't really paid any attention to what or how much they actually buy, but that would seem to be more of a grass-roots infusion of cash than sitting in some Walking Street bar sucking down Heinekens all night.

Edited March 9, 2013 by Suradit69

[Damaz6052]

Have to agree with Cheesyd here.

I imagine Phuket is similar to Pattaya with regards Russians and indeed the newer Asian tourists.

Everything is paid up front and they use their money very sparsly.

All the money goes to selected businesses and very little elsewhere.

The only businesses that benefit from the Russians are the 7elevens and the various food marts where they buy booze and snacks before retreating to the beach/hotel/appartment.

Other than a minority they are never seen in bars or restaurants.

How do the local businesses benefit from that?

I see them eating and drinking in the local restaurants here in Patong. I also see them buying fruit from the Thai vendors and they buy a lot especially bananas! So the comments above aren't entirely true.

[Guest]

In Pattaya a bunch of existing hotels are being renovated, and new ones being built, by a Chinese company. This includes hotels like VC and Day Night. Their target is Chinese tourists. While the hotels employ Thai workers, the big profits are staying in Chinese pockets. Like the Russians, Chinese tourists come here on a pre-paid package, take lots of photos and spend very little money. Why this sort of thing is being allowed by the authorities is pretty easy to figure out. :-)

Even these Chinese tourists are spending money here every time they sleep in an hotel or take a bus drive to see some tourists attraction. It does not matter who owns the company. The money is just not paid directly to the local companies, but routed trough travel agency.

The Chinese nor Russians did not scare other tourists away. It was the greed of local businesses.

If there would not be large masses of Chinese and Russian tourists, Phuket would be quite quiet place at the moment. This would suit for many of us, but it would not be good for people who are dependent of the touristic money in a way or another.

[spidermike007]

Have to agree with Cheesyd here.

I imagine Phuket is similar to Pattaya with regards Russians and indeed the newer Asian tourists.

Everything is paid up front and they use their money very sparsly.

All the money goes to selected businesses and very little elsewhere.

The only businesses that benefit from the Russians are the 7elevens and the various food marts where they buy booze and snacks before retreating to the beach/hotel/appartment.

Other than a minority they are never seen in bars or restaurants.

How do the local businesses benefit from that?

They seem to flood the Tuesday-Friday market on Pattaya Tai. Haven't really paid any attention to what or how much they actually buy, but that would seem to be more of a grass-roots infusion of cash than sitting in some Walking Street bar sucking down Heinekens all night.

It is generally true that many Russian tourists we see here in Thailand are cheap charlies. But, they do spend money nonetheless. The complaints are probably from the taxi touts, who lose a fortune. And that is a good thing to deny cash to insects. Probably some complaints from hotel operators who are accepting highly discounted room rates. But, that is what hotel operators do all over the world, to maintain their occupancy rates. Chances are, the Thai hotel people who accept these rates, grumble over them, call the farengs cheap, and overall maintain a sour grapes attitude over being put in that position.

[stevenl]

In Pattaya a bunch of existing hotels are being renovated, and new ones being built, by a Chinese company. This includes hotels like VC and Day Night. Their target is Chinese tourists. While the hotels employ Thai workers, the big profits are staying in Chinese pockets. Like the Russians, Chinese tourists come here on a pre-paid package, take lots of photos and spend very little money. Why this sort of thing is being allowed by the authorities is pretty easy to figure out. :-)

Even these Chinese tourists are spending money here every time they sleep in an hotel or take a bus drive to see some tourists attraction. It does not matter who owns the company. The money is just not paid directly to the local companies, but routed trough travel agency.

The Chinese nor Russians did not scare other tourists away. It was the greed of local businesses.

If there would not be large masses of Chinese and Russian tourists, Phuket would be quite quiet place at the moment. This would suit for many of us, but it would not be good for people who are dependent of the touristic money in a way or another.

Their accommodation is extremely discounted, the tours they do are often completely Russian owned, including the waiter at the eatery, no money spend anywhere that is not controlled by them.

IMO it would be better for local businesses to suffer now in the hope of something better for the future, because if the Russians are controlling the market there will for sure be nothing in the future, they are scaring everybody else away.

[Phronesis]

As a whole, Russians are new to tourism and as such are relatively unsophisticated travellers. However, that will change rapidly and soon the penny will also drop for them that Phuket is an over priced environmental catastrophe.

In my view Russia as a tourist source market is very near to the bottom of the barrel.

Once the Ruskies have wisened up to the "image" of Phuket, and moved on...who then will Thailand pitch its concrete and light bulbs to?

I hear drums in the distance...African drums...

[stevenl]

Have to agree with Cheesyd here.

I imagine Phuket is similar to Pattaya with regards Russians and indeed the newer Asian tourists.

Everything is paid up front and they use their money very sparsly.

All the money goes to selected businesses and very little elsewhere.

The only businesses that benefit from the Russians are the 7elevens and the various food marts where they buy booze and snacks before retreating to the beach/hotel/appartment.

Other than a minority they are never seen in bars or restaurants.

How do the local businesses benefit from that?

I see them eating and drinking in the local restaurants here in Patong. I also see them buying fruit from the Thai vendors and they buy a lot especially bananas! So the comments above aren't entirely true.

Of course that happens, but those are the exceptions.

[William_R]

In Pattaya a bunch of existing hotels are being renovated, and new ones being built, by a Chinese company. This includes hotels like VC and Day Night. Their target is Chinese tourists. While the hotels employ Thai workers, the big profits are staying in Chinese pockets. Like the Russians, Chinese tourists come here on a pre-paid package, take lots of photos and spend very little money. Why this sort of thing is being allowed by the authorities is pretty easy to figure out. :-)

Even these Chinese tourists are spending money here every time they sleep in an hotel or take a bus drive to see some tourists attraction. It does not matter who owns the company. The money is just not paid directly to the local companies, but routed trough travel agency.

The Chinese nor Russians did not scare other tourists away. It was the greed of local businesses.

If there would not be large masses of Chinese and Russian tourists, Phuket would be quite quiet place at the moment. This would suit for many of us, but it would not be good for people who are dependent of the touristic money in a way or another.

The hotels they are sleeping in are Chinese owned and operated.

The Russians own and operate large fleets of tour buses, such as Pegas. I suspect the Chinese are doing the same, or will be.

But I do agree that Thai greed is coming back to bite them in the butt.

[firestar]

I see them eating and drinking in the local restaurants here in Patong. I also see them buying fruit from the Thai vendors and they buy a lot especially bananas! So the comments above aren't entirely true.

Of course that happens, but those are the exceptions.

I stayed in a cluster of 60k+ villa in samui last month it was all Russians. The restaurants quite overpriced along Chaeng Mon Beach Russians everywhere, eating, drinking and buying from beach vendors like I've never seen before. I also noticed at the car rental they went through mostly Russian passports before getting to mine.

Yes there is lots of cheap Russians but there is also a large number spending big so I wouldn't call them the "exceptions".

[nakhonandy]

Have to agree with Cheesyd here.

I imagine Phuket is similar to Pattaya with regards Russians and indeed the newer Asian tourists.

Everything is paid up front and they use their money very sparsly.

All the money goes to selected businesses and very little elsewhere.

The only businesses that benefit from the Russians are the 7elevens and the various food marts where they buy booze and snacks before retreating to the beach/hotel/appartment.

Other than a minority they are never seen in bars or restaurants.

How do the local businesses benefit from that?

They seem to flood the Tuesday-Friday market on Pattaya Tai. Haven't really paid any attention to what or how much they actually buy, but that would seem to be more of a grass-roots infusion of cash than sitting in some Walking Street bar sucking down Heinekens all night.

I agree with you, putting money into the market is a good thing, however according to my wife and her friends it is more looking than buying and even then only the cheap stuff.

As for walking street I agree, however it isnt the only place with bars and food, just the gaudy tourist trap.

[stevenl]

I see them eating and drinking in the local restaurants here in Patong. I also see them buying fruit from the Thai vendors and they buy a lot especially bananas! So the comments above aren't entirely true.

Of course that happens, but those are the exceptions.

I stayed in a cluster of 60k+ villa in samui last month it was all Russians. The restaurants quite overpriced along Chaeng Mon Beach Russians everywhere, eating, drinking and buying from beach vendors like I've never seen before. I also noticed at the car rental they went through mostly Russian passports before getting to mine.

Yes there is lots of cheap Russians but there is also a large number spending big so I wouldn't call them the "exceptions".

Here on Phuket I see it every day with my own eyes. So from your 1 time experience in Samui you may come to a different conclusion, but from my daily experience here in Kata: they are the exceptions.

[nakhonandy]

I see them eating and drinking in the local restaurants here in Patong. I also see them buying fruit from the Thai vendors and they buy a lot especially bananas! So the comments above aren't entirely true.

Of course that happens, but those are the exceptions.

I stayed in a cluster of 60k+ villa in samui last month it was all Russians. The restaurants quite overpriced along Chaeng Mon Beach Russians everywhere, eating, drinking and buying from beach vendors like I've never seen before. I also noticed at the car rental they went through mostly Russian passports before getting to mine.

Yes there is lots of cheap Russians but there is also a large number spending big so I wouldn't call them the "exceptions".

I would, there are thousands of Russians coming to Thailand now on very cheap package tours.

What percentage of the total are spending big or even likesay a european tourist?

[Para]

oilinki whilst your logic is sound the reality is quite different.

I can only answer for Pattaya but local businesses are not seeing any Russian money as they are on total package holidays with very little extra available for domestic spending. Yes the local hotels need staffing to cope but as far as restaurants/bars go they are not benefiting.

Considering the fact there were only 100k Russian visitors to the Kingdom back in 2005 now we are seeing 1M+ and its growing strongly something needs to happen to get the balance right of Russian visitors and Russian spending or the resorts that they visit will be drained.

I am certainly not one of the many anti-Russian but I do see potential problems if the influx continues without supporting local business with their money.

[Guest]

The hotels they are sleeping in are Chinese owned and operated.

The Russians own and operate large fleets of tour buses, such as Pegas. I suspect the Chinese are doing the same, or will be.

But I do agree that Thai greed is coming back to bite them in the butt.

Yes, those companies are operated by the Russians and Chinese, but if you go one layer below and see that the work is still done by Thais (or Burmese). This means work and salaries paid to the local economies. Fees paid to the hotels, local entertainment, their workers, HTK landing fees etc.

The operating layer will take some part of the money as profits, that's natural but it's still not huge part of the whole money flow.

[William_R]

I would, there are thousands of Russians coming to Thailand now on very cheap package tours.

What percentage of the total are spending big or even likesay a european tourist?

I have talked to a lot of Thais here in Pattay about the Russian tourists and all say the same thing. They hate the Russians because they are rude, brash, laud and very cheap.

I know a bar tender at the Camelot who told me the Russians, who dominate the hotel, go to 7 Eleven and buy booze and then want to sit in the hotel bar and drike it. When told they have to pay a table fee they get outraged.

[nakhonandy]

I would, there are thousands of Russians coming to Thailand now on very cheap package tours.

What percentage of the total are spending big or even likesay a european tourist?

I have talked to a lot of Thais here in Pattay about the Russian tourists and all say the same thing. They hate the Russians because they are rude, brash, laud and very cheap.

I know a bar tender at the Camelot who told me the Russians, who dominate the hotel, go to 7 Eleven and buy booze and then want to sit in the hotel bar and drike it. When told they have to pay a table fee they get outraged.

Pretty much my experience, I live in Jomtien about half of the year and hear the same things.

Some Hotels are even putting notices outside "No Russians".

Why would they do they if they were getting benefit from them?

I was in Kata for a couple of weeks last November, heard noting but Russian on the street but in the restaurants and bars, very very few!

[Guest]

oilinki whilst your logic is sound the reality is quite different.

I can only answer for Pattaya but local businesses are not seeing any Russian money as they are on total package holidays with very little extra available for domestic spending. Yes the local hotels need staffing to cope but as far as restaurants/bars go they are not benefiting.

Considering the fact there were only 100k Russian visitors to the Kingdom back in 2005 now we are seeing 1M+ and its growing strongly something needs to happen to get the balance right of Russian visitors and Russian spending or the resorts that they visit will be drained.

I am certainly not one of the many anti-Russian but I do see potential problems if the influx continues without supporting local business with their money.

What I mean by all of this. Phuket has already became a 'lame' place to go for an vacation. Quite like Teneriffe some 15-20 years ago. I believe that Phuket will not get it's glamorous status back for Europeans at least for the next few decades. The people who came here year after year have already got tired how the island started to turn out. They are and have been sourcing new places for their dream vacations. For example in my networks people seems to be talking more about Cuba than Thailand these days.

But for Phuket. If we think what these place would look like if all the Russian, Chinese, Middle Eastern and future Indian tourists would be taken out of the picture. That would not be a good for local economy. This is the reason why Phuket needs these new comers. Even if they don't play with the same rules as the previous visitors did.

[firestar]

I would, there are thousands of Russians coming to Thailand now on very cheap package tours.

What percentage of the total are spending big or even likesay a european tourist?

How many europeans stay at the cheapest hotel they can find and spend money on nothing else than beer and bar fines? Russians come with their families they have different and less visible activities.

having said that on the whole of course europeans spend more what I am saying is that there is also a significant number of Russian who do spend, a percentage high enough not to be just an "exception".

Edited March 9, 2013 by firestar

[Para]

I would, there are thousands of Russians coming to Thailand now on very cheap package tours.

What percentage of the total are spending big or even likesay a european tourist?

I have talked to a lot of Thais here in Pattay about the Russian tourists and all say the same thing. They hate the Russians because they are rude, brash, laud and very cheap.

I know a bar tender at the Camelot who told me the Russians, who dominate the hotel, go to 7 Eleven and buy booze and then want to sit in the hotel bar and drike it. When told they have to pay a table fee they get outraged.

Pretty much my experience, I live in Jomtien about half of the year and hear the same things.

Some Hotels are even putting notices outside "No Russians".

Why would they do they if they were getting benefit from them?

I was in Kata for a couple of weeks last November, heard noting but Russian on the street but in the restaurants and bars, very very few!

Ah the joys of Jomtienski!

I was on Pratumnak for a few weeks recently and was amazed at the volume of Russians walking around. Then you have the added problem of trying to get a bahtbus from Jomtien into Pattaya. The buses are often full to the point of being dangerous and the traffic making it quicker to walk or take a bike.

Their cultures are certainly different from ours but change is the only constant in life.

This is VERY hot on another board that I post on and it seems one of the plus sides is the way they will happily push in front of Thai's that are queuing at 7-11!