Of Men And Monks …

[andrew]

...I have faith in what any monks does and therefore respect them blindly.

You have so much to learn.

Edited March 15, 2013 by Maestro
Fixed quote tags.

[sustento]

The monks I encounter are often nothing better than the trash they were before they joined up. Putting on a saffron robe doesn't transform an ignorant, lazy, nasty man into a kind hearted enlightened beacon of hope . Maybe somewhere, there are some monks that actually take their theology to heart and try to live their lives according to the teachings. I just haven't run into any in Thailand.

Precisely. You ought to get out more.

[poanoi]

I just don't like buddhism...my gf spend all her money on monks & monkey rituals by fortune tellers & similar charlatans so i'm stuck with paying the bill, and to top it off she immediately start chanting to buddha as she comes to bed before she rolls over to sleep, all the while i lay there with my d!ck in my hand wondering

<deleted> is wrong with this picture, about five months since she had time for me, buddha require full time attention.

Next'un wont be a buddhist, that is a certain

[David48]

I just don't like buddhism...my gf spend all her money on monks & monkey rituals by fortune tellers & similar charlatans so i'm stuck with paying the bill, and to top it off she immediately start chanting to buddha as she comes to bed before she rolls over to sleep, all the while i lay there with my d!ck in my hand wondering

<deleted> is wrong with this picture, about five months since she had time for me, buddha require full time attention.

Next'un wont be a buddhist, that is a certain

Ha Ha Ha ... great story ... but we know it's not true.

A handsome man like you and your girlfriend not complying to your requests for 5 months and you are still together ... I think not.

However I can understand that you don't like Buddhism ... it's not for everyone, not for me ... but I'm a tolerant chappie ... like most Thais, my gf's faith is important to her.

So if it's important to her ... it's important to me.

Thanks for sharing your story though ...

[geriatrickid]

The monks I encounter are often nothing better than the trash they were before they joined up. Putting on a saffron robe doesn't transform an ignorant, lazy, nasty man into a kind hearted enlightened beacon of hope . Maybe somewhere, there are some monks that actually take their theology to heart and try to live their lives according to the teachings. I just haven't run into any in Thailand.

Precisely. You ought to get out more.

I do, probably far more than the typical white devil. I have had the opportunity to watch some people swarm when public health and social services funding is handed out. The degree of corruption and inappropriate behaviour is the same as found in any other country or society. However, there is one key difference: There are ramifications to misbehaviour in many other countries.

There are those that put the clerics of Thailand on a pedestal and think they can do no wrong. Unfortunately, as the RC church has demonstrated, vows of celibacy and the exclusion of women leads to an environment that is not particularly safe for children or vulnerable people. I find it incredible that many people assume that likelihood of inappropriate behaviour in Thailand is somehow reduced by the mere fact that these people are Buddhists. Buddhist, Christian, Muslim, whatever, the fact is that they are humans and have the same vices, mental disorders and frailties. Becoming a monk doesn't cure someone or instantaneously impart "superiority". . However, in Thailand, because of the perception that the religious industry is somehow above it all, shields these religious groups from scrutiny. How many of these wats that collect vast sums of money ever open their books to scrutiny? Who audits the wats to ensure that the monies collected are disbursed on the activities claimed? In Australia, Canada the EU and many other countries, the religious orders are subject to some administrative requirements in order to maintain their tax free status. What happens in Thailand?

I am certainly not saying all monks are crooks or deviants. However, the fact is that these monks are part of a large enterprise that takes in hundreds of millions if not billions of bat and there is little accountability. Lord Acton said it best: Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Better yet is what William Pitt the Elder, Earl of Chatham and British Prime Minister said "Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it". IMO, the religious hierarchy has unlimited power, provided they don't get too uppity.

I still do not understand how some uneducated, ignorant man that becomes a monk is transformed into a "superior being". Perhaps he is superior to many people including some foreign guests of Thailand. So be it. However, I think the generalization made is the assumption that monks are "superior".

[Robby nz]

Monks are part of this country (Thailand) and if you want to live here, and I do, you should accept them as such.

Fortunately, unlike some religious orders in other countries, they don't come knocking on your door trying to get you to join in.

If you don't want to you don't have to and there are no threats as per some other religions and you don't have to look far south to see one of those.

Me I am quite prepared to live in this country monks and all, I'll even smile at them if they look at me but I wont be going to the Wat unless its to a funeral or something similar nor giving any donations.

Incidentally today the Buddhist Mr's is off helping her Muslim uncle who is sick.

[David48]

To geriatrickid ... I don't particularly agree with everything your wrote above ... but I respect the way you present it.

Arguing with fervour and passion is great ...

One of the things you talk about is accountability ... how much of the actual money collected is siphoned off to a 'personal trust fund' ... I don't know.

But the same argument could be made of charitable donations in the west where sometimes (and I just guessing) 30 or 40% of the monies donated goes in 'administration' ... NGO's in luxury SUV's and the like.

.

.

[simple1]

Monks are part of this country (Thailand) and if you want to live here, and I do, you should accept them as such.

Fortunately, unlike some religious orders in other countries, they don't come knocking on your door trying to get you to join in.

If you don't want to you don't have to and there are no threats as per some other religions and you don't have to look far south to see one of those.

Me I am quite prepared to live in this country monks and all, I'll even smile at them if they look at me but I wont be going to the Wat unless its to a funeral or something similar nor giving any donations.

Incidentally today the Buddhist Mr's is off helping her Muslim uncle who is sick.

I hope it's OK by the OP for me to comment.

I live in the predominately Muslim area of Pattaya with a large Thai Muslim extended family. Some Buddhist men and women have married local Muslims and converted to Islam; nearly all from Issan. It's also true that some proposed marriages did not go ahead as the Buddhist families threatened to cut off their family member if converting to Islam, same is true with some Muslim families when family members wanted to marry into a Buddhist family.

[David48]

Monks are part of this country (Thailand) and if you want to live here, and I do, you should accept them as such.

Fortunately, unlike some religious orders in other countries, they don't come knocking on your door trying to get you to join in.

If you don't want to you don't have to and there are no threats as per some other religions and you don't have to look far south to see one of those.

Me I am quite prepared to live in this country monks and all, I'll even smile at them if they look at me but I wont be going to the Wat unless its to a funeral or something similar nor giving any donations.

Incidentally today the Buddhist Mr's is off helping her Muslim uncle who is sick.

I hope it's OK by the OP for me to comment.

I live in the predominately Muslim area of Pattaya with a large Thai Muslim extended family. Some Buddhist men and women have married local Muslims and converted to Islam; nearly all from Issan. It's also true that some proposed marriages did not go ahead as the Buddhist families threatened to cut off their family member if converting to Islam, same is true with some Muslim families when family members wanted to marry into a Buddhist family.

Thanks for dropping by ...

We focus sometimes so much on the inter-cultural marriage ... Thai-Farang ... and the like.

But greater tensions exist in the inter-religious unions.

.

[MissFarmGirl]

we know that before Monk was same as my brother, my father

and we know they are human

but we respect Monk because this our way, our religeon

maybe 1 Monk not so good, but many many Monk good so the balance is good for us

for Monk we think not so good, we not go and show respect him

we choose another Monk, maybe Monk we go and pray with before

our beliefs, our feelings not perfect 100%, but what system is?

[muythai2013]

people need to remenber Buddhism is a personal journey, Monks are teachers.

There are bad Monks, even bad abbotts raining over some temples,there are also good ones.

It does not change Buddhism.

If every Buddhist on Earth rejected his teachings and was corrupted,If every Buddhist turned evil, I would still continue on my personal Buddhist journey.

People are not corrupted by Buddhism, Buddhism becames corrupted by people, followed correctly the religion is not flawed.

[hookedondhamma]

Miss Farm Girl explained it really well; likewise so did Muay.

[Robby nz]

I said before I would post my other bad monk experience and as I also said it is only one of two in seven years in Thailand.

I was on the island of Koh Chang and had hired a motorbike to go for a look round the south end of the island.

Come lunch time I stopped at a small roadside Thai restaurant for a feed.

There was a table in the middle with a ring of about 6 others round the outside, a large monk was sitting at the middle table.

As I ordered 3 well dressed man came in and ordered also.

I sat down at one of the outer tables facing the center and my food was brought to me.

Directly after, the plates of the 3 men were taken to their table.

They then got up and put their plates on the monks table.

I expected him to do the usual 'chant a prayer' bit, eat a little from each plate and give them back but he didn't even acknowledge the men just picked up a spoon and fork and got stuck in.

When the men realised they were getting nothing back the went and reordered.

In the time it took me to eat my food the monk had cleaned up all 3 plates, he then, in spite of the no smoking signs sat back and lit a cigarette.

That was when I paid and left.

Unfortunately it is the bad things that stick in the mind and this in no way reflects on all.

[muythai2013]

my brother in law is a monk, an Author of Buddhist Books, he is a hardcore monk for life.

the kind of guy who you would think was born to it.

He smokes like a chimney, no big deal.

[simple1]

my brother in law is a monk, an Author of Buddhist Books, he is a hardcore monk for life.

the kind of guy who you would think was born to it.

He smokes like a chimney, no big deal.

As one of the key tenants of Buddhism is the transformation of craving and desire, don't know how you can describe your BIL as a "hard core monk"

[chris1dna]

They are monks, not saints. Why are we so judge mental? I have the highest respect for the monks I ordained with. Some had smoking vice. Most did not. We lived in a small forest temple. All quite, hard work. Most difficult time for me was going out in public. The scrutiny of being a monk and a farang monk in issan was very hard to take. Luckily for me I only lasted about 30 days. The most inspired and peaceful time in my life.

Now I realize it was only 30 days. But I can assure you that at least from what I experienced, The six monks I lived with, all were devoted and waaaay more hardcore than any I've ever seen. They would all make ajaarn Cha proud. I realize that there are troubles in the monastic. I believe it a small issue when compared to the over all good that is monastic life. This is my understanding thus far.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[David48]

chris1dna ... if I'm reading your post correctly ... you were a monk for a month?

Care to share some of your experiences (bearing in mind that this is the General Forum ... so apply a generous layer of thick skin ... )

Specifically, if you can with a view of the question I asked in the OP ...

do you think Thai people are unduly deferential to monks and forget that they are people just the same as them?

To those previous posters who had less then positive stories ... it's all good ...

Happy to read them ... it's life as it happens

[muythai2013]

I was a monk for a year, I would say most Thai people don't know a great deal about the religion or Buddha, they know the rituals at the wat and simply go through the motions.

They have also intertwined it with their ancient Spiritial tribal beliefs and don't at all realise that those beliefs are not related to Buddha at all.

Most attend the temple looking for a miracle of Kharma and to be showered with money in the future through a stroke of luck born from their good deed of visiting the Wat.

There are still many who understand Buddhism and attempt as best they can considering the inherant flaws in man to follow it correctly.

In general Monks and men are all flawed to different degrees, the purpose of Buddhism is to take each individual on a journey to correct those mistakes that are man made, errors of man not of Buddhism.

The aim is not to worship Buddha, not to ask him for anything, the aim is to look to him as a role model in how to behave in order the reach our final Goal, he is simply a guide.

are monks overly revered, that would depend on the individual and how they percieve the Monk, the majority may place them on an overly raised pedestal but in general teachers are very important.