Experts Tell Me Whats Goning On!

[oliver80]

I have lived in Thaialnd 8 years and cannot work out what the hell is going on in this womans mind, Thai wife!

About 2 and a half years ago we got divorced in court, i sued her mother for interference in a child father relationship and she in turn she sued me for divorce!

Part of the divorce agreement was i withdraw the sue against the mom, as I won what i wanted I relented and withdrew the sue against the mom. It obly came out 3 months later she never filed with the Amphur so legally we where still martied, so 4 months after the divorce we where back together again. Great because we have a young daughter and she cherrishes us both.

Before the divorce my wife would run from Bkk to Chiangmai to her mom for any reason she felt fit, so when she came back i told her no running or foul moth in the home, she is educated and claims to come from high class, the mother thinks she is royalty....lol, anyway later

So all good then the running started again, but not too serious still unacceptable by standards, everytime ahe rN i challenged her to file with the Mphur S instructed by the court for her to do, she never dis, and we got back together.

Anyway as things go she ran again twice in Dec /Jan 2013, after i spent 120k on ivf for a second child, her mom just cruise in and pick her up anytime for no reason, she just call and mom comes running, mom is alone for 20 years and as we know misery loves company!

I told my wife this time that i truely hate her mom for the interference and want to divorce from her mom, as it appears i am married to two!

She will start a small business soon who the mother will finance, and rhe mother just brought her a car too, she really get dug in deep to settle her down back at home and never tries to help the marriage, a true mother in law from hell, trust me i live it.

Now about me, i am fairly succesful work outside Thailand half the month and have good income.

I have issues after the innitial court divorce investing in my wife due to the way they fought for everything i had done, luckily the court saw my side and was generous.

Now here me clearly, my wife is not a gold digger, i met her at 22 in a professional job overseas, she seems legite but i think she is bipolar! She is 35 now.

What i want to ask, she is getting soo set up with the mom, new business and new car and all the material crap, why wont she just file the divorce with the Amphur and be rid of me, if as she claims i am a terrible husband...... I hope for some intelligent answers on this......and would appreciate cpuse of action.

I have contemplated filing myself but for my sake And my daughters i was not the innitial plaintiff in the divorce and feel in the future i would feel better not to be the instituter of something that is negative for my daughter.

Just to re emphisize, why if this woman is getting on with her life and only send the maid out to bring my daughter and pick her up when i drop her, does she not file the freakin divorce? I have not seen her and her me for months!

[Farma]

Forgetting all the other issues why do you think you are still married?

The divorce court would have issued a judgement followed by a certificate of case finalization. If you never recieved your copy ask your lawyer or at the court.

Either party can then apply to register the divorce at the Umphur using those court issued documents.

Only 1 person needs to attend the Umphur with the court issued judgement and certificate of case finalisation.

The signature block on the back of the Registration of Divorce Khor Ror. 6 will show "Verdict in lieu of consent" where the other parties signature would normally appear.

In my eyes you are divorced but haven't registered it with the Umphur.

[MAJIC]

Hi Oliver,I'm sorry to say I'm not the expert you are seeking,but I can give my opinion for what it's worth?

Firstly I seem to recognise the "Mother Daughter Fixation"from Psychology,in my College days.

What it involves,is : the Mother has a fixation,and can't let her Daughter grow up,spread her wings and be strong enough to make her own way in life. In order for this relationship to flourish,the Daughter has to be a willing participant,and be quite happy and content to be tied to her Mothers apron strings,get the picture? they are both feeding off each other and keeping the cycle going by ganging up on you! and undermining your role as her Husband (who should be the main person in her life)

Which in turn makes it another form of the "Eternal Triangle" which is two against one,which you can't win,as with the Triangle in Construction (which is the strongest of all Constructions) and Engineering, apply equal force to two of the points and the third one will break.... "You"

From what you say it is all too easy for your wife to run back to Mummy,the bond between them is too strong,if you value your Marriage,it may be necessary to do something drastic,give her an Ultimatum,or leave the Country with your wife,it's not going to go away, unless you make it happen,and keep them apart!

[oliver80]

Hi thanx

But question is if she is getting on soo well with her mom and life is going forward why does she not file with the Amphur? What is her thinking or game?

Anyone

[Farma]

The next question. Do you know for sure she hasn't already visited the umphur and obtained her own Registration of Divorce?

It sounds like she's stringing you along and using your daughter as emotional blackmail.

The court has already divorced you. Attending the Umphur is just a formality.

[oliver80]

Hi all

Thank you for your inputs, yes Oliver that is correct and exacty what is happening, the mother is living her life through her daughter who is beautiful and tall and everything she is not, there is another sister but shorter and uglier. The mother will do anything for my wife, just brought herva new car and put mags on it, which are expensive in Thailand, but could not replace her againg car she still drives. Here mom makes about 100k per month and is spitting out big bucks to keep her daughter, all material but as we know in Thailand material is the way a Thai girl sees love and appreiation and security, unfortunaty.

Other question, no she has not filed as yet, as she has many belonginings at my home, more than 3/4 of her things including her beloved ipod and computer not too mention most of her expensive clothes, i told her i dont have time for her to pick them up, but if she where to bring the "divorce certificate" i wold gladly make time, she has not done this.

Question, what kind of emotional blackmail do imply Farma, she has gone basically wants nothing from me and i see my daughter as per court ruling.

I spoke to a lawyer sometime ago and they said even with the court order we still show as married without the amphur registration.

I still would like someone to shed some light as to why, why, if all is good where she is and she wants he goods back, why does she not just get the divorce certificate, the mom is giving her far more than i can, or am prepared too give, after the innitial divorce fight!

I dont want to fight for this martiage, she is beautiful outside but dark and nasty inside, like her mom, mom brainwashed her and she is a tounger clone of that witch

Please tell me what she has to gain by staying legally married to me, or is this just one of those drawen out Thai Games of he must come running back for me someday ? And i will show him how succesful i am and that i am high class!

Why wont she just freakin file the divorce?

[oliver80]

On the emotional blackmail topic

I dont see her at all or have any comms accept short sms when i drop and pick up my daughter, which is once every fortnight, in the 2 weeks between there is no comm whatsoever!

I have ssen some deterioration in my daughter general care, her nails are not cut, her school bag is broken and it makes me sad, normal reaction would be to buy another right, they just brought a car with mags so i want to leave it too them as i am sure they are doing this for show and i think they are heading for a financial burden, and the more i can help them hang themselves the better.

I tell you this mother is from hell direct, divorced 20 yrs ago, treats her ex like dirt, and is a ttal man hater, telling my wife you dont need a man, you can be happy and succesful like me, earn 100k baht a month.....great big whoppeeeee

I think my wife is bipolar and goes through her manic depression cycles over a period of months. Pnce she ran away before our daughter was born and actually got a job overseas, we got together before she left, as i pursued her, stupid, and she left for her job, i met here overseas, she fell pregnant and within 2 weeks she was home again. What i am saying she wanted to come home but never had the excuse to give her mom, so when she fell pregnant the excuse was there! She cannot just get going from her mom off her heart and desire, she would rather die than face reality. I aksed her what if i never met you before you went overseas, as she always says we are soulmates bla bla, she replied i was hoping oneday to meet in you the street somewhere in the world, is this sick thinking or what?

Actually i just want to give insight so someone can tell me why she does not file the court order for the divorce!

[oliver80]

Thai divorce from court

On the divorce court order it states in layman terms.

"The filing of this document at the Amphur is the will of the plaintiff, should the plaintiff fail to do so, and the order be filed by the defendant, the order is the will of the defendant."

Basically one can read that if neither party files it is not the will of either to have the order instituted!

Is my reasoning correct based off what the order states?

[JDGRUEN]

OP - you might want to consider - early menopause which can mimic Bipolar behavior or even stimulate bringing it out, hard core drugs (yes I know she would never do that - which what ever spouse says), and boyfriend (yes and she would never do that either) - or all the above - plus addiction to Mom and what Mom does for her sweetie. OP this is not just a Thai problem - although it seems to have a particular Thai way about it. I suggest - get the paperwork done yourself as others have suggested, make a BREAK, do your best to secure relations with your child. But from my own domestic experiences - you have years more of this if you hang around. Talk about harming your child with this mess - just imagine years more of it and it could get worse...

[Mario2008]

No expert here either, but you are legally divorced. The only problem is that the divorce is not registered, thus third parties can claim they are unaware of it and still consider you married. In practice that is only important if you or your wife has any debts.

section 1531 Thai civil code.

As has been said, you can register the divorce yourself.

[oliver80]

Its not about the divorce legal or not, its about why wont she just file at the amphur, i explained above why i do not feel fit to do it myself.

Thanx

[rotary]

Well distance yourself, work out something on visitation for the child and get rid of that wife/mother tag team now. In the end it will come to that anyway.

[Bangkokhatter]

Why don't you do it, and while your at it; next time you see your daughter cut her nails yourself !

[Artabus]

Ok, let's call it like this :

THE most important person you need to consider in all of this is not you, your "wife", or the mother in law. It is your DAUGHTER.

Get awake, get smart, get with the programme. You are a father, grow some testicles, put her first.

Accept reality - at least what we could define as the reality in this situation. You tell us your wife was damaged by her mother. It is not uncommon that mistakes repeat down the generations, and indeed you can already see some signs that your daughter is being harmed by her mother.

So take charge, take parental responsibility for your child.

Forget this immature nonsense that you don't want to be the one who files! You have to take the long view, and do whatever is needed to provide the best for your daughter. There is an expression "in the best interests of the child" - that is NOT the same as doing what is easiest, or even what the child might choose if asked.

So file, get your life back, get custody and control of your daughter, provide a decent stable loving supportive home for her. This will be a hard road for you to follow, but as your daughter's happiness depends on it and you gave birth to her...

If this sounds harsh, well it is. But really, your postings have been all about you and how hard it is for you. Pathetic!

PM if you would like to be supported through the process. I cannot advise you on the legals in Thailand - there are many on TV who can and will - but I can sure as heck keep you focused on your daughter.

[oliver80]

100% correct

I worry if to file full custody with a travelling job I have if it will be not a bone of contention with the court as to who will akecare the child when i am away, i am away from home 2 weeks a month

I also worry that should I file that what I have my deminish if I get a "bad judge".... Maybe just get visitation only with no control, I dont want to tempt fate.

Aonther question, what i say about the wife and mother is my side, obviously other friends and maids have seen the badness, but i dont think either will testify. I was wondering what I could use to build my case strong, i know if she get another male I could use that as it would be dangerous for a half half kid to be around a strange dick!

Let me know i am interested.

[Artabus]

Hi there and thank you for your comments.

On the divorce side I see there as being a number of aspects you need to consider :

1. Were any formal proceedings instigated or completed at court? Your answer to that determines where to go from there.

2. What are the grounds for divorce? You will find much information on Thaivisa (TV) explaining what they can be.

3. If your (ex-)wife left you then that provides the route of abandonment.

4. If she has a new relationship as you mention might happen, that is another.

5. I would say from reading many articles on TV that the body of opinion tends to be that an agreed settlement is better than a contested one. We could even say that is obvious.

6. Will your wife act differently if you offer to pay her?

Please note that in all the above, my opinion is just that - you should really check everything I say, preferably with one of the many people who knows far more than me on the legal aspects.

Addressing your specific queries :

1. Travelling for 2 weeks out of the month.

I KNEW you would mention this. Yes, it is hard. Work, or be with your child... But look, it's quite simple really. If your job is as well paid as you indicate, then that means you are highly skilled. That means you can get another job. So break the process down - what work and timings do you need now? What work and timings do you need once you have your daughter? Surely if you have money, then finding someone to care for your child just until you can be there full time (I.e. only at work 9 - 5 Mon - Fri) is possible? It can be the mother until you are ready to take over, if it has to be. For now, surely you having a good job will be pleasing to the court? And then you tell them you will be changing it so as to be there for your daughter at the start and end of every day..

By the way, are you going to spend the rest of your life in Thailand, or at least until your daughter is 18 or she finishes education (older than 18!) or until she no longer needs you around? If not, then your daughter must be overseas with you, or you leave her here with her mother.

I am NOT telling you what to do, of course not. I am trying to point out the fact that although all these points are very long term ones, if you want them to be available to you and to your daughter then you must consider them now and factor them into your calculations.

2. If you get a "bad" judge.

Slow down, and address the points on my list above before you get to this stage. Yes of course you worry about this, in Thailand as elsewhere judges can make decisions you are not happy with. Certainly my experience of the Thai legal system has not been a good one (especially with the lawyers), however there have been good comments on TV about judges in child custody issues. And I think you will find that the divorce is handled before the child custody aspects (but please check!).

3. What do you say about her and the MIL

Again, deal with the points above first. What are the grounds for divorce? In an abandonment case, I suspect the behaviour might not be relevant.

Some questions for you please :

1. How old is your daughter?

2. Where does she live when not with you?

3. By what agreement?

4. What does your wife want with regards to custody and / or access?

5. What education and opportunities do you want your daughter to have in life?

6. Do you want sole custody?

Shared custody might sound good to you at present, but years of arguments between you and the ex (more than likely to be the case) added to differences of opinion on the parenting, differences of opionion on what you want for your daughter's future, and differences of culture, and the influence of the MIL - will all combine to make a living nighmare. So whilst you do need to take one step at a time, anything other than full custody and control as an end goal will only serve to give you years of misery and most importantly, will screw your daughter big time. And THAT must be avoided at all costs.

Above all - you want the best for your child, so ALWAYS do what is needed for that. If that is to have you provide for her, then do what is needed for that, no matter the difficulty in getting there! And if you think her mother will do better, then walk away. The theory is quite simple is it not? The practice is of course far from simple, and you have my empathy on that.

Take things one step at a time. Knowledge is power, so acquire the knowledge you need, analyse it, action it.

By the way, I fought for years and years to parent my son the way he needed to be parented. Not through the courts, but just against the mother's way of doing things. A long hard battle, but the results for him have been worth it. I do understand your pain, is the point I am making...

I hope this helps.

[oliver80]

Hi

Actually I do have a certification from the US she is bipolar, but I really dont want to use that against her as I dont want to destroy her totally, she seems okay for now and little trouble and no contact, maybe she will realise with time that our daughter lives better with her mother and father and change her ways and running to be complacent in marriage, maybe some are not made for marriage, anyway time will tell.

I do have a good lawyer who is in regular contact with the local judges, and he does not have any problem to pursue my cause, but i am advised to give her time and space to see if she will wake up not the real world.

Should she however screw me around with my daughter then i will take her straight to court without a second to spare.

Thanx for all your inputs, i am good for now and life continues, thets see what he future holds.

[rijb]

It's always about the money. She ain't done squeezing you yet.