U S Top Court Sides With Thai Student In Copyright Row

[webfact]

US top court sides with Thai student in copyright row

WASHINGTON, March 19, 2013 (AFP) - The US Supreme Court on Tuesday sided with a Thai student who had resold text books bought abroad and sparked a copyright row with a publisher.

Supap Kirtsaeng, who arrived in the United States in 1997 to study at the University of Southern California, had asked his friends and family to buy the books, published by John Wiley & Sons, which were cheaper back home.

After receiving them in the mail, he resold them in the United States, reimbursing his suppliers and keeping the profit.

John Wiley & Sons filed a complaint alleging illegal importation and resale without the payment of exclusive distribution rights protected by copyright.

While other lower courts had sided with the publisher, the Supreme Court did not, ruling that "the first sale doctrine applies to copies of a copyrighted work lawfully made abroad."

"The fact that harm has proved limited so far may simply reflect the reluctance of copyright holders to assert geographically based resale rights," it said, noting that museums and libraries were often involved.

The prestigious nine-member panel had heard arguments in the case in late October.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2013-03-20

[Locationthailand]

How did this 'kid' afford legal representation or was he pro se? All the way to the Supreme Court?

[JLCrab]

I don't know who paid Kuhn Kirtsaeng's legal bills but he sold his books on eBay. The non profit organization (NGO) that represents eBay and other sellers online or otherwise is called The www.OwnersRightsInitiative.org

The impact here in Thailand is that US producers of copyrighted material, that sold their wares in Thailand at reduced prices or with lesser quality paper and bindings, etc., will make sure that such pricing differentials are narrowed so that there is no incentive to buy them here and ship them for resale to USA as was Kirtsaeng's former practice.

Edited March 20, 2013 by JLCrab

[HeijoshinCool]

Geez, they can get away with it anywhere!

[JLCrab]

You were laughing so hard you forgot to say who can get away with what.

[Steely Dan]

Whilst I realize copyright should exist to protect financial interests there comes a point where exercising such rights is officious, frivolous and counter-productive. I believe this was one such case and I'm glad the judgement of the lower court was overturned.

[Scott]

A post containing profanity has been deleted.

[rijb]

After paying for 2 kids through college, I'm happy to see the textbook mafia lose one. But, I don't think we've heard the last of them.

[JLCrab]

Who this will hurt at least in Thailand are those few students who actually wanted to purchase a legitimate copy of a textbook instead of going to those multiple copy shops you see huddled around every university here. The US publishers will certainly take measures within the above Supreme Court ruling to make sure the wholesale importation of books into the USA is no longer a profitable venture.

[Suradit69]

Who this will hurt at least in Thailand are those few students who actually wanted to purchase a legitimate copy of a textbook instead of going to those multiple copy shops you see huddled around every university here. The US publishers will certainly take measures within the above Supreme Court ruling to make sure the wholesale importation of books into the USA is no longer a profitable venture.

Taking into consideration the cost of shipping books by mail, it's hard to believe there's any meaningful profit to be made. Additionally, the likelihood that a particular edition of a particular text is both available in Thailand and required reading at particular university in the US is pretty low. Professors can change texts or editions without warning from one term to another (often for a newer edition of a text they've authored).

Publishers already have to live with the reality that many students in the US resell their texts and buy used copies when available, which nets the publishers zero additional revenue. And, they aren't selling texts in developing countries at reduced prices out of the goodness of their hearts. Raising the prices here will simply ramp up the photocopy machines.

Besides, I would imagine that written material used in university courses is becoming increasingly available in the form of e-books or simply PDFs. Shifting heavy texts half way 'round the world for a small price differential is not the stuff of which new industries will be made.

[Tywais]

Who this will hurt at least in Thailand are those few students who actually wanted to purchase a legitimate copy of a textbook instead of going to those multiple copy shops you see huddled around every university here. The US publishers will certainly take measures within the above Supreme Court ruling to make sure the wholesale importation of books into the USA is no longer a profitable venture.

T

Publishers already have to live with the reality that many students in the US resell their texts and buy used copies when available, which nets the publishers zero additional revenue.

Nearly all universities in the US have a campus bookstore that rent or buy/sell/rebuy text books. But they are required to have permission from the publisher to do so which probably all do as it is a simple application.

[MikeThaison]

How did this 'kid' afford legal representation or was he pro se? All the way to the Supreme Court?

You obviously haven't followed the story throughout the ordeal. The kid made a TIDY PROFIT! How do you think he got sued?!?! The publisher doesn't find out about this kind of scheme unless it starts getting into the 7 figures. I think he netted a couple million dollars from the scheme.

[Kilgore Trout]

Another thai benefitting from a fair judicial system while the bib bust and extort foreigners selling goods bought abroad sold on craigslist

[JLCrab]

There really isn't a whole lot to imagine or conjecture: The US Supreme Court majority opinion and accompanying dissent is 74 pages long.

[CWMcMurray]

Having studied both in USA and in Thailand, It's not a small difference in cost....

I remember some official licensed text books here being aprox 1,000 thb while the same exact text book in the US would have been at least 100-150 usd

So a lot of room to make profit...

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[JLCrab]

The numbers (to the best of recollection) were that Kirtsaeng and his associates bought $900,000 worth of books in Thailand and that Kirtsaeng himself, after reimbursing those in Thailand, netted about $100,000 profit total over the life of the venture.

[Steely Dan]

The numbers (to the best of recollection) were that Kirtsaeng and his associates bought $900,000 worth of books in Thailand and that Kirtsaeng himself, after reimbursing those in Thailand, netted about $100,000 profit total over the life of the venture.

The issue as far as I can ascertain is whether copyright can be used to maintain differential pricing by location, not one of outright piracy. In finance the act of

taking advantage of price anomalies by location is known as arbitrage and the market usually adjusts to close such loopholes pretty quickly. Another is in Northern Ireland, where cars used to fill up petrol at gas stations in EIRE due to price differences down to government duty.

It remains to be seen whether the publisher closes the price differential to put a stop to this, in which case future students studying in Thailand may not thank Khun Kirtsaeng for his initiative.

[candypants]

How did this 'kid' afford legal representation or was he pro se? All the way to the Supreme Court?

http://ownershiprights.org/kirtsaeng-vs-wiley

given this statement regarding the initial judgement, he could ill afford not to take it all the way.

But the courts ruled against Kirtsaeng, holding that because the books were manufactured abroad, he was in violation of U.S. copyright law for being an unauthorized seller. The publisher was awarded damages of $600,000, more than 15 times the amount that Kirtsaeng made from the sale of the books.

besides, studying in the US it stands to reason his family is not skint.

[JLCrab]

Associate Justice Breyer basically said, in authoring the majority opinion, that while there are obvious benefits to publishers having differential pricing for developing country markets, there is nothing in the current copyright law that would protect such policies.

I think the publishers are far more interested in protecting their markets in the USA and maybe other developed countries than worrying about whether a few extra Thai students will additionally join those who currently fill-up their textbook requirements at the local copy shop.

I would guess the legal bills have been paid one one or more of the non profits as mentioned above. The cost for a trial and 2 appeals easily can be in the millions of dollars.

Edited March 21, 2013 by JLCrab

[zig]

Nice... Many computer game DVDs are legally sold in Thailand at a considerably lower price, if compared to the US market. If we assume that this court ruling is setting a precedent then we are legally allowed to import them back to US and sell with a profit.

[jamhar]

Nice... Many computer game DVDs are legally sold in Thailand at a considerably lower price, if compared to the US market. If we assume that this court ruling is setting a precedent then we are legally allowed to import them back to US and sell with a profit.

I believe your 'intent' will be challenged

But good thinking!

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It's an odd kind of story.... I have some familiarity with the university textbook business here in Thailand.

Basically, from my knowledge, a lot of the international universities (those that teach in English) use books that originate in the U.S. (in addition to Thai-authored ones). But the U.S. textbooks aren't very easy to get here. There's a pretty limited number of supply options. And when a school orders them from a supplier in the U.S.or another country like Singapore, they have to be careful because any unsold copies can't readily be returned, meaning, the suppliers won't accept returns from abroad.

I don't know about the textbook price comparisons between the U.S. and Thailand for the same book. But from my experience, a lot of university students here don't even bother (or want) to buy their own textbooks where the class/instructor supposedly requires them. They'll buy one copy and share the book among a group of students, or rely on the copy of the textbook that's kept in the university's library. And I'm not talking about poor students at a government school, but rather, reasonably well-to-do ones at a private university.

How the students here manage to get through their classes here in that way is a mystery to me. I know I couldn't have managed that back in my university days. But then I had professors at the private universities I attended who would have given me a D or an F if my performance warranted it...despite the fact I was a tuition paying student. Not sure that same dynamic has survived here today in Thailand.

Of course, there's also the copy shop at one of the private universities in Bangkok that happily makes quite good looking, bound B&W photocopied versions of submitted original textbooks complete with color, hardback covers for 1/2 baht per page. So take a 400 page original textbook, and get a pretty good looking and durable bound hardback copy back for 200+ baht.

[JLCrab]

From the International Intellectual Property Alliance (IIPA) 2012 Special 301: Thailand Page 108:

Book Piracy, Including Production for Export and Unauthorized Photocopying: The book and journal publishing industry continues to face the following problems in Thailand: print piracy, illegal photocopying, unauthorized translations, and online piracy, though the latter is not yet a significant threat. Of these, unauthorized photocopying of educational materials, in and around universities, remains the predominant form of book piracy in Thailand. Copy shops continue to copy books for students, increasingly on a “made to order” basis to avoid keeping infringing stock on site.

So again, I think the US publishers and other content owners are more interested in protecting US and other developed markets than raising prices such that a few more Thai students are added to the above ranks.

Edited March 21, 2013 by JLCrab

[HAL9000]

From the International Intellectual Property Alliance (IIPA) 2012 Special 301: Thailand Page 108:

Book Piracy, Including Production for Export and Unauthorized Photocopying: The book and journal publishing industry continues to face the following problems in Thailand: print piracy, illegal photocopying, unauthorized translations, and online piracy, though the latter is not yet a significant threat. Of these, unauthorized photocopying of educational materials, in and around universities, remains the predominant form of book piracy in Thailand. Copy shops continue to copy books for students, increasingly on a “made to order” basis to avoid keeping infringing stock on site.

So again, I think the US publishers and other content owners are more interested in protecting US and other developed markets than raising prices such that a few more Thai students are added to the above ranks.

I think there is additional difficulty because US copyright laws allow exception for educational purposes.

[JLCrab]

The exception for educational purpose is in Section 107 'fair use' which allows limited copying but there is a whole 'nother lawsuit between the publishers including university presses and several universities on that one which may also end up in the US Supreme Court.

[Kilgore Trout]

I wonder, if he was a student then he was prohibited from working

Why was he not charged with working illegally?

Answer; US justice is reasonabe and fair to aliens, Thai law is not

Wonder if this guy learned that...

[khaowong1]

How did this 'kid' afford legal representation or was he pro se? All the way to the Supreme Court?

He must of sold a s**t load of books..

[khaowong1]

The numbers (to the best of recollection) were that Kirtsaeng and his associates bought $900,000 worth of books in Thailand and that Kirtsaeng himself, after reimbursing those in Thailand, netted about $100,000 profit total over the life of the venture.

Good on him... that's the captitalist spirit.. find a void and fill it...

[IsaanUSA]

Geez, they can get away with it anywhere!

No kidding, the textbook mafia has got to be stopped. I'm glad the textbook publishers were finally dealt a blow. They really do think they can enforce their copyright law anywhere and get away with frivolous civil lawsuits.

They change a chapter or two every year so they can release a new edition and charge $100 USD for the "new" book. Towards the end of my schooling teachers allowed us to use old editions (second hand books) or didn't use textbooks at all. When the books cost as much as the class...time to look for a new school.

[JLCrab]

The US Supreme Court ruled against the US publishing and other content industries based upon the US Copyright law as it is written today. Based upon their statements released regarding that decision, the US publishing industry will start working post haste to have the law re-written in Congress.

The following statement was issued by the International Publishers Association (IPA):

In Kirtsaeng v. John Wiley & Sons, Inc, the US Supreme Court decided on 19 March 2013 that the “first sale” doctrine applies to copies of a copyrighted work lawfully made abroad. Consequently, an American publisher in the future may be unable to prevent the unauthorized importation into the United States of low cost editions of its textbooks produced for developing markets.

IPA considers that this decision threatens low cost textbooks, which are critically important to students in developing countries.

But I guess some here think it's more important to stick it to them greedy book mongers.

Edited March 21, 2013 by JLCrab