Phuket Crackdown On Russians Heads North

[ThailandNoob]

...

Please tell me how it is racism towards the Thai people as a whole to criticise one organisation (or cluster of organisations depending on how you look at it). I am merely pointing out that their bureaucracy (which only employs a small segment of the population) is both riddled with both dysfunctionality and corruption. People with degrees teaching at government universities but not being able to get work permits is solid evidence of the first. Legitimate businesses having to pay backhanders to Immigration officials is solid evidence of the second.

I speak pretty fluent Thai and am friends with a lot of ordinary, regular Thai people, none of whom play any role in what I am describing other than that of victim. Many of them have experienced issues similar to what I describe when they deal with bureaucracy themselves. I have heard enough first-hand accounts from enough people about enough facets of Thai bureaucracy to convince me that there is a systemic problem here.

And if it is racism for me to highlight the lack of Russian speakers in Thailand, then I must be guilty of racism towards my home country as well, since I will readily admit that very few people there even know what the Cyrillic alphabet is. As such, if it ever experienced a sudden influx of monolingual Russian speaking tourists, then I would think it completely reasonable to allow Russian speakers to come from overseas and work providing services to these tourists in their own language. I don't have a problem with tourists spending a few weeks in a country where they can't speak the language, as long as they are prepared to pay a premium to access services delivered in their own language (organising these would cost more than services in the local language, which needs to be built into the cost).

The problem you appear to have, ThailandNoob, is that, despite living in Bangkok for a year, you appear not to have recognised the ideological divide between your gracious hosts and the country from which you came. The language of the multicultural orthodoxy of Western socialist elites ("racist", "xenophobic", etc) has no currency in Thailand where there is no illogical dependency on mass-immigration to prop up rampant welfarism. Thais exhibit the kind of racial consciousness which used to be the norm in Western societies prior to their being engulfed by the socialist disease. The bottom line is that it is up to the Thais, and the Thais alone, to decide who they want living in their country. If they pay an economic penalty for ejecting some of their more incompatible guests then that is a price that they, and they alone, will pay. It is not an issue for indoctrinated foreign university students to decide.

I have no problem with the Thais deporting and blacklisting Russians guilty of the "incompatible" behaviour that I'll admit you do see a lot of (starting drunken fights etc.). But this should be individual punishment and not collective punishment justified by some notion of "racial consciousness". To forget to be wary of notions such as racism and impose blanket punishments on entire ethnic groups (e.g. mass arrests on fairly flimsy grounds) can be the beginning of a slippery slope which leads to such horrors as genocide.

[Escapologist]

I have no problem with the Thais deporting and blacklisting Russians guilty of the "incompatible" behaviour that I'll admit you do see a lot of (starting drunken fights etc.). But this should be individual punishment and not collective punishment justified by some notion of "racial consciousness". To forget to be wary of notions such as racism and impose blanket punishments on entire ethnic groups (e.g. mass arrests on fairly flimsy grounds) can be the beginning of a slippery slope which leads to such horrors as genocide.

So you are really worried that racially profiling for Russians, in order to ensure that they have bona fide credentials, will lead to genocide? You hold the Thai people in lower esteem than I'd imagined. I doubt that I am alone in suspecting your candour or motive here though.

In the multicultural utopia of the UK, police forces in the more 'enriched' areas routinely racially profile for crime suspects; much to the chagrin of many decent citizens. This is often proven by the stop and search statistics. Why do they do it? Because they know among whom much of the crime is concentrated and they want arrests. No genocide, just common sense, albeit politically incorrect.

The time to get jittery about serious levels anti-foreigner race crime is when your professed doctrine of 'anti-racism' is adopted by the Thai State and Thai resentment begins to seethe out of control. It's easy to become misguided about national sentiment when you spend each day in a cosmopolitan metropolis. I can assure you that Thais outside of the tourist areas want Thailand to remain as Thai as possible though. Not many will shed a tear over the Russian situation in Phuket.

[Escapologist]

Yes I know what you are saying when it comes to communication problems if they can't speak Thai or English - but I find that the Thai attitude is foreigner = speaks English. This is an outdated and may I say even slightly discriminatory attitude that needs to be corrected. Now with China emerging as a global power, Chinese is rightfully emerging as a second global language. Russian is like the China of Europe it seems. Now if there are that many Russians in Thailand, why aren't more locals intending on working in the tourist industry in these areas (Pattaya and Phuket) learning Russian? In Vietnam, I found a number of locals in tourism who were learning Russian (although they could also speak some English too) and why not? With like more than half of all tourists in Mui Ne/Nha Trang of Russian origin, only offering English would get them nowhere. It's the same with Chinese tourists - not many can speak English. Any tourism operator that can cater to them in their language is going to make it big with them. If only English is available - the Chinese don't come.

China now has more English speakers than the UK. English is going nowhere.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Escapologist

[Loptr]

Did not realize Thai were Russian speaking hence how could Russians steal their jobs

They bring their chicks, they laundry "their" money. They do all sorts of stuff that puts Thais out of work. Nastrovgve......(Vodka glass landed behind me and broke)-

OH the money laundering myth again, do you actually know the amount of papers and work required to take money out of Russia? unless of course you still believe its in their suitcases

Apparently so, or all those suitcases of cash would have never found their way to Cyprus. How many billions of euros is it?

[Loptr]

why don't they all go to Cyprus, apparently there is a lot of russians over there with plenty of money.....................LOL

Correction, HAD plenty of cash. Now they have 37.5% of their cash balance and some useless shares in Cyprus banks that are worth about as much as a bog roll.

[mickyboy]

So "Russians stealing people's jobs". Why only Russian companies?...

becaues they are up tp no good and are dangerouse people thats why they clamped down on them

[mickyboy]

Walking around and seeing Russian signs everywhere I suddenly wonder where am I?

This is not Thailand

i saw on thai tv that the biggest buisness in vietnam is making sihgs in russian for the rest south east asia so that tells you how bad it isand dont kid yourself they buy beer from 7/11 and dont spend loads like europeans do cheap skates

[ThailandNoob]

I have no problem with the Thais deporting and blacklisting Russians guilty of the "incompatible" behaviour that I'll admit you do see a lot of (starting drunken fights etc.). But this should be individual punishment and not collective punishment justified by some notion of "racial consciousness". To forget to be wary of notions such as racism and impose blanket punishments on entire ethnic groups (e.g. mass arrests on fairly flimsy grounds) can be the beginning of a slippery slope which leads to such horrors as genocide.

So you are really worried that racially profiling for Russians, in order to ensure that they have bona fide credentials, will lead to genocide? You hold the Thai people in lower esteem than I'd imagined. I doubt that I am alone in suspecting your candour or motive here though.

In the multicultural utopia of the UK, police forces in the more 'enriched' areas routinely racially profile for crime suspects; much to the chagrin of many decent citizens. This is often proven by the stop and search statistics. Why do they do it? Because they know among whom much of the crime is concentrated and they want arrests. No genocide, just common sense, albeit politically incorrect.

The time to get jittery about serious levels anti-foreigner race crime is when your professed doctrine of 'anti-racism' is adopted by the Thai State and Thai resentment begins to seethe out of control. It's easy to become misguided about national sentiment when you spend each day in a cosmopolitan metropolis. I can assure you that Thais outside of the tourist areas want Thailand to remain as Thai as possible though. Not many will shed a tear over the Russian situation in Phuket.

I doubt I am alone in suspecting you of trolling here. I stand by what I said about collective punishment of ethnic groups being a step on the "slippery slope" to genocide. However, where is the evidence that this has wide support in Thailand?

Your point about stop and search is a false analogy because we are talking about collective punishment, not just scrutiny.

You can assure me that "Thais outside of the tourist areas want Thailand to remain as Thai as possible"??? Maybe you should get out and associate with a greater diversity of people in the country. Fortunately I've only ever heard a small section of Thai society talk this kind of nonsense. Most people in Thailand are smart enough to realise how futile this is, given the ethnic diversity of the country. Are you forgetting how many different ethnic groups have been assimilated into Thai culture over the centuries? I've found people in Thailand see a place in their society for anyone willing to co-exist with those around them and put in an honest day's work.

[NamKangMan]

why don't they all go to Cyprus, apparently there is a lot of russians over there with plenty of money.....................LOL

Correction, HAD plenty of cash. Now they have 37.5% of their cash balance and some useless shares in Cyprus banks that are worth about as much as a bog roll.

And many here think that it could never happen to Thai Banks. :)

[NamKangMan]

These "picture books for travelers" were invented for such a purpose. The Russians, and other nationalities, would find them handy, however, if the Thai's still want to sell tours, island hopping, shows, retail items etc - in my opinion, to maximise sales, you still need a Russian speaker at the point of sale.

http://www.amazon.com/Wordless-Travel-Book-Pictures-Communicate/dp/0898158095

[Westaurel]

When you go abroad to pay a minimum of respect you should learn just few words of your destination country language.

http://www.amazon.com/Thai-Phrasebook-Lonely-Planet/dp/1742201849

But, the coarse and arrogant Russians for most who believe that everything is due to them are fairly pretentious for needing tour operators take care of them in their own language. This is why there are a lot of Russian agencies in Phuket or Pattaya ! And Thais don't look it favourably for them !

But how these Thai mafioso (not english or russian speaker) expect to serve Russians who don't speak English ?

The Chinese coming to Thailand have their chinese/thai speaker guide and a VIP bus to bring them about the journey schedule !

------

Once again I'm not talking about me !

Edited April 1, 2013 by Westaurel

[Escapologist]

I have no problem with the Thais deporting and blacklisting Russians guilty of the "incompatible" behaviour that I'll admit you do see a lot of (starting drunken fights etc.). But this should be individual punishment and not collective punishment justified by some notion of "racial consciousness". To forget to be wary of notions such as racism and impose blanket punishments on entire ethnic groups (e.g. mass arrests on fairly flimsy grounds) can be the beginning of a slippery slope which leads to such horrors as genocide.

So you are really worried that racially profiling for Russians, in order to ensure that they have bona fide credentials, will lead to genocide? You hold the Thai people in lower esteem than I'd imagined. I doubt that I am alone in suspecting your candour or motive here though.

In the multicultural utopia of the UK, police forces in the more 'enriched' areas routinely racially profile for crime suspects; much to the chagrin of many decent citizens. This is often proven by the stop and search statistics. Why do they do it? Because they know among whom much of the crime is concentrated and they want arrests. No genocide, just common sense, albeit politically incorrect.

The time to get jittery about serious levels anti-foreigner race crime is when your professed doctrine of 'anti-racism' is adopted by the Thai State and Thai resentment begins to seethe out of control. It's easy to become misguided about national sentiment when you spend each day in a cosmopolitan metropolis. I can assure you that Thais outside of the tourist areas want Thailand to remain as Thai as possible though. Not many will shed a tear over the Russian situation in Phuket.

"I doubt I am alone in suspecting you of trolling here. I stand by what I said about collective punishment of ethnic groups being a step on the "slippery slope" to genocide. However, where is the evidence that this has wide support in Thailand?"

You stand by your entirely baseless assertion that profiling leads necessarily to ethnic genocide? Okay, I'll give you some credit here, your reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy was at least moderately subtle.

The evidence for Thai ethnocentrism is anecdotal based on my observations all over the country. Most people don't require a weather balloon to know that it is cold. You'll find that peoples are the same everywhere. Your "anti-racist" orthodoxy is a relatively recent aberration with communist origins. Thankfully it hasn't infiltrated Thailand which might help to explain why the Thais are generally happier than the residents of the multicultural utopias.

"Your point about stop and search is a false analogy because we are talking about collective punishment, not just scrutiny."

This is what the governor is reported to have actually said: “We will not only check their work permits, but also check that the workplace address cited in their work permits matches the place where they are working,” "Collective punishment"? Indeed, it is exactly analogous to the profiled stop and searches in the UK.

"You can assure me that "Thais outside of the tourist areas want Thailand to remain as Thai as possible"??? Maybe you should get out and associate with a greater diversity of people in the country. Fortunately I've only ever heard a small section of Thai society talk this kind of nonsense. Most people in Thailand are smart enough to realise how futile this is, given the ethnic diversity of the country. Are you forgetting how many different ethnic groups have been assimilated into Thai culture over the centuries? I've found people in Thailand see a place in their society for anyone willing to co-exist with those around them and put in an honest day's work"

The Thai population is generally localised and relatively homogeneous and has been the recipient of tremendously successful propaganda, centering around an unmentionable individual, for many decades. It has been successful to the extent that it has solidified the hegemony, of the central Tai elite, over the entire country. Are you really suggesting that Thais are not ethnocentric? The nice flattering girlies get to you, did they? The Western man's ego is his greatest weakness in this land.

[ThailandNoob]

I have no problem with the Thais deporting and blacklisting Russians guilty of the "incompatible" behaviour that I'll admit you do see a lot of (starting drunken fights etc.). But this should be individual punishment and not collective punishment justified by some notion of "racial consciousness". To forget to be wary of notions such as racism and impose blanket punishments on entire ethnic groups (e.g. mass arrests on fairly flimsy grounds) can be the beginning of a slippery slope which leads to such horrors as genocide.

So you are really worried that racially profiling for Russians, in order to ensure that they have bona fide credentials, will lead to genocide? You hold the Thai people in lower esteem than I'd imagined. I doubt that I am alone in suspecting your candour or motive here though.

In the multicultural utopia of the UK, police forces in the more 'enriched' areas routinely racially profile for crime suspects; much to the chagrin of many decent citizens. This is often proven by the stop and search statistics. Why do they do it? Because they know among whom much of the crime is concentrated and they want arrests. No genocide, just common sense, albeit politically incorrect.

The time to get jittery about serious levels anti-foreigner race crime is when your professed doctrine of 'anti-racism' is adopted by the Thai State and Thai resentment begins to seethe out of control. It's easy to become misguided about national sentiment when you spend each day in a cosmopolitan metropolis. I can assure you that Thais outside of the tourist areas want Thailand to remain as Thai as possible though. Not many will shed a tear over the Russian situation in Phuket.

You stand by your entirely baseless assertion that profiling leads necessarily to ethnic genocide? Okay, I'll give you some credit here, your reductio ad Hitlerum fallacy was at least moderately subtle.

The evidence for Thai ethnocentrism is anecdotal based on my observations all over the country. Most people don't require a weather balloon to know that it is cold. You'll find that peoples are the same everywhere. Your "anti-racist" orthodoxy is a relatively recent aberration with communist origins. Thankfully it hasn't infiltrated Thailand which might help to explain why the Thais are generally happier than the residents of the multicultural utopias.

This is what the governor is reported to have actually said: “We will not only check their work permits, but also check that the workplace address cited in their work permits matches the place where they are working,” "Collective punishment"? Indeed, it is exactly analogous to the profiled stop and searches in the UK.

The Thai population is generally localised and relatively homogeneous and has been the recipient of tremendously successful propaganda, centering around an unmentionable individual, for many decades. It has been successful to the extent that it has solidified the hegemony, of the central Tai elite, over the entire country. Are you really suggesting that Thais are not ethnocentric? The nice flattering girlies get to you, did they? The Western man's ego is his greatest weakness in this land.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I said collective punishment, not profiling. And I would call it punishment to, all of a sudden, start locking people up for breaking a hitherto scarcely enforced law, without providing reasonable mechanisms for people to comply with it. Examples of what I mean here are cutting down on the red tape to a point where government universities feel confident applying for work permits for foreign staff, and clamping down on corrupt bureaucrats who demand large bribes for run of the mill work permit applications (i.e. for a handful of foreign managers who want to oversee the work of dozens of local employees at their company's branch office in Thailand).

Also I never mentioned Hitler in my post, but I think it would be a logical thing to introduce into any conversation that has drifted onto the topic of "racial consciousness".

And this is getting off topic, but from my experience travelling all over Thailand, I see a country deeply divided along regional lines (North, Northeast, Centre and South). If the "central Tai elite" have such a solid hegemony "over the entire country" then why has there been such political turbulence over the past 7 years?

[LazyCat]

Did not realize Thai were Russian speaking hence how could Russians steal their jobs

They bring their chicks, they laundry "their" money. They do all sorts of stuff that puts Thais out of work. Nastrovgve......(Vodka glass landed behind me and broke)-

OH the money laundering myth again, do you actually know the amount of papers and work required to take money out of Russia? unless of course you still believe its in their suitcases

Omg, i just looove when ppl dont know what they are talking about. Taking money out of Russia is really simple, there is a "service" called "envelope" where u transfer the money to local account, and for a charge not more than 10% it will show up on any given account in any place of the world.

sure enough this service is not for those who are willing to take out 10-20K USD much larger summs are quite welcomed

[jerry5050]

Russians have no respect for the outside world and the people around them! not difficult to understand because these guys have an IQ of only 85!

many dangerous people, especially those with their knowledge and their arrogance hate anything that does not fit in their booth!

!! Look to the South of France, 30 years ago, spain 25 year back, etc. ..! everyone walks away from it! havens they have just destroyed!

Now is asia's turn, it's raining complaints anywhere and everywhere for that super arrogant people! time to think, they just do not fit around us, they also want to not adjust!!

When you go abroad to pay a minimum of respect you should learn just few words of your destination country language.

http://www.amazon.com/Thai-Phrasebook-Lonely-Planet/dp/1742201849

But, the coarse and arrogant Russians for most who believe that everything is due to them are fairly pretentious for needing tour operators take care of them in their own language. This is why there are a lot of Russian agencies in Phuket or Pattaya ! And Thais don't look it favourably for them !

But how these Thai mafioso (not english or russian speaker) expect to serve Russians who don't speak English ?

The Chinese coming to Thailand have their chinese/thai speaker guide and a VIP bus to bring them about the journey schedule !

------

Once again I'm not talking about me !