Thai Charter Showdown Looms

[webfact]

Charter showdown looms
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Pheu Thai lines up 60 MPs to justify amendment bills in Parliament, Democrat strategy will aim to convince people govt move not in public interest

The political temperature is expected to rise to boiling point today when the opposition and the coalition clash head-on over three bills seeking to amend four provisions of the Constitution.

The opposition Democrat Party has prepared at least 30 MPs to attack the amendment bills which it believes the coalition Pheu Thai Party wants to enact to help just one person - former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

But the Pheu Thai will argue that the amendments are necessary to make the charter more democratic. The Pheu Thai spokesman said some 60 Pheu Thai MPs would debate in support of the charter amendments.

The three bills seek to amend Article 68, Article 190 and Article 237 of the Constitution - as well as require all senators to be elected.

Democrat MP Jurin Laksanavisit, the chief opposition whip, held a meeting of opposition whips to prepare for the showdown today.

Jurin said the opposition whips have yet to reach an agreement with their coalition counterparts on how to fairly share debate time. He said it was not fair for the coalition to have 15 hours of debate time while the opposition would get only 11 hours.

Jurin said the Democrats had prepared 30 MPs to inform the public that the charter amendments would not help the people and the country, but would benefit only particular groups.

Jurin said elected senators have been wooed to support charter amendments with the promise that all senators would gain office from elections and they would be allowed to contest the elections without having to wait for one term.

Jurin said Democrat MPs would point out that the planned amendments relating to senators' tenure and origin would run counter to the intentions of the 2007 charter.

Jurin said the opposition also disagreed with the plan to amend Article 68 to restrict the people's rights to file a petition in the Constitution Court directly, and instead require them to submit their petitions to the attorney-general.

He said the planned amendment to Article 190 to remove the requirement for the government to seek Parliament's approval before inking contracts with foreign governments would allow the government to sign free trade agreements without having to consult Parliament first. The Democrats also disagreed with the plan to lift the party dissolution penalties and political bans against party executives by amending Article 237, Jurin said.

But Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said the three charter amendment bills were in the public interest and not aimed at benefiting the Pheu Thai and Thaksin, as alleged.

For example, the amendment to Article 68 was aimed at reducing the workload of the Constitution Court by having the Office of the Attorney-General screen petitions from the people first.

Prompong said all Pheu Thai MPs were told to attend the parliamentary meetings in full force from today until Wednesday.

The Pheu Thai spokesman said the coalition expected the three amendment bills would sail through Parliament.

"ThePheu Thai and the coalition partners will support charter amendments to make the charter genuinely democratic and return the power, which was seized in 2006, to the people," the Pheu Thai spokesman said.

Meanwhile, Abac Poll of Assumption University announced that most people hope to see an end to the political conflict after the charter amendments - but doubt such an optimistic scenario would be possible, according to an opinion survey. Abac Poll carried out the survey among 2,153 people in 17 provinces from March 15 until Saturday. The provinces included Bangkok, Kanchanaburi, Samut Prakan, Chiang Mai, Sakon Nakhon, Buri Ram, Trang and Nakhon Si Thammarat. The respondents were at least 18 years old. Asked to state what they would like to see happen in the country following the charter amendments, up to 91.7 per cent said they would like to see peace returned to the country while 80.6 per cent said they would like to see bad politicians eliminated and 75.1 per cent said they would like to have a better quality of life.

Each respondent was allowed to name several wishes.

Up to 63.6 per cent of the respondents said they would like to elect the prime minister directly.

When asked if they believed the political conflict would end after the charter amendments, 83.8 per cent said they did not believe so, while 16.2 per cent believed they would.

Asked whether they thought more protests would occur, 41.7 per cent said they expected more protests while 32.9 per cent thought the situation would remain the same and 25.4 per cent said the number of protests would decline.

Some 56.1 per cent said they would like the government to dissolve the House after any charter amendments, while 43.8 per cent said they wanted the government to continue working.

The survey also found that 89.9 per cent of the respondents considered the Constitution would impact their lives, while 10.1 per cent said the charter was not an issue close to them.


-- The Nation 2013-04-01

[siampolee]

It would seem as if we are coming to the time when ''Push comes to shove.''

This current maladministration is well aware of the house of cards it has constructed and exists in so now the time has come to move and take squatters rights on the whole of Thailand not just the states coffers.

The insatiable lust for absolute power,politically, financially and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes has become the habit which must be fed no matter what course of action is taken to find the wherewithal to feed this addiction.

Thailand and its peoples and what passes for democracy here is on the menu and in fact is the diet for the aforementioned Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes..

We are it would seem about to enter some more turbulent times as this desperate bid for power is eased onto the dining table by the brown nosing serfs and waiter's of the Thaksin clan.

Those serfs and waiters of course like the mongrels they are, are eagerly begging for the scraps from the table that the Thaksin clan might throw at them as a reward for their superb groveling and their submitting to the absolute power of the Thaksin clan.

[webfact]

Thai lawmakers debate controversial constitution amendments today
By English News



BANGKOK, April 1 – A joint parliamentary session is scheduled for today to deliberate three bills seeking to amend the current Constitution, which has been in use since 2007.

The three pieces of legislation, proposed by MPs of the ruling Pheu Thai party, pinpoint specific sections of the Constitution to be revised.

Debates by members of the Lower and Upper Houses are expected to take three days.

Jurin Laksanawisit, chief whip of the opposition bloc, said over 30 Democrat party MPs intend to take the floor against the bills.

Clear explanations will be made to the Thai public on the Democrats’ stance against the constitutional amendments, he said.

Deputy Commerce Minister Nattawut Saikua described as normal the opposition’s disagreement with the bills but he believed the three bills will pass without serious difficulty in the first reading.

Pheu Thai spokesman Prompong Nopparit said he doesn’t believe the constitutional amendments will increase the country’s political temperature since they are beneficial to people and the kingdom.

An allocation of 11 hours for the opposition to debate the bills is sufficient compared to its number of MPs, he said. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-04-01

[chainarong]

Any amendments to the constitution should be done by the people ,not politicians, state your case , then put it to the people vote, politicians in Thailand have to understand that they work for the people not the other way around, have I said something funny here.

[tragickingdom]

Actually there cannot be any showdown. The government holds over 2/3 of the votes. The only showdown can come from the unelected puppets in the senate, the freeloaders who travel on the expense of the Thai airways shareholders, dine on the expense of the majority voters who had no chance to give them the finger and who are solely put there to kiss the big A** of Prayuth and his cronies.

[rubl]

With the 2.2 trillion Baht special 286 MP's voted for the government, that's about 57.2%.

Anyway consitution changes should not be 'sailing through' by a slight majority of votes by the MP's of the party which forms the main partner in the government. That's not democratic.

Just to be sure we're talking about

Section 68. No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.

In the case where a person or a political party has committed the act under paragraph one, the person knowing of such act shall have the right to request the Prosecutor General to investigate its facts and submit a motion to the Constitutional Court for ordering cessation of such act without, however, prejudice to the institution of a criminal action against such person.

In the case where the Constitutional Court makes a decision compelling the political party to cease to commit the act under paragraph two, the Constitutional Court may order the dissolution of such political party.

In the case where the Constitutional Court makes the dissolution order under paragraph three, the right to vote of the President and the executive board of directors of the dissolved political party at the time the act under paragraph one has been committed shall be suspended for the period of five years as from the date the Constitutional Court makes such order.


Section 190. The King has the prerogative to conclude a peace treaty, armistice and other treaties with other countries or international organisations.

A treaty which provides for a change in the Thai territories or the Thai external territories that Thailand has sovereign right or jurisdiction over such territories under any treaty or an international law or requires the enactment of an Act for its implementation or affects immensely to economic or social security of the country or results in the binding of trade, investment budget of the country significantly must be approved by the National Assembly. In such case, the National Assembly must complete its consideration within sixty days as from the date of receipt of such matter.

Before the conclusion of a treaty with other countries or international organisations under paragraph two, the Council of Ministers must provide information thereon to the public, conduct public consultation and state information in relevant thereto to the National Assembly. In such case, the Council of Ministers must submit negotiation framework to the National Assembly for approval.

Upon giving signature to the treaty under paragraph two, the Council of Ministers shall, prior to give consent to be bound, facilitate the public to get access to the details of such treaty. In the case where the application of such treaty has affected the public or small and medium entrepreneurs, the Council of Ministers must revise or render remedy to such effects rapidly, expediently and fairly.

There shall be a law determining measure and procedure for the conclusion of a treaty having immense effects to economic or social security of the country or resulting in the binding of trade or investment of the country significantly and the revision or rendering of remedy to the effects of such treaty with due regard to the fairness among the beneficiaries, the affected persons and the general public.

A matter arising from the provisions of paragraph two falls within the jurisdiction of the Constitutional Court and the provisions of section 154 (1) shall apply mutatis mutandis to the referring of the matter to the Constitutional Court.


Section 237. A candidate in an election who commits an act or causes or supports another person to act in violation of the organic law on election of members of the House of Representatives and acquisition of senators or regulations or notifications of the Election Commission which resulting in the election not to be honest and fair, his right to vote at an election shall be suspended under the organic law on election of members of the House of Representatives and acquisition of senators.

If it appears convincing evidence, through an act of the person under paragraph one, that the President or an executive board of director of a political party connives or neglects at such commission or such commission is known to him but he fails to deter or revise such commission for the maintenance of honest and fair election, it shall be deemed that such political party doing an act for the acquisition of the power to rule the country by means which is not in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution under section 68. In such case, if the Constitutional Court orders to dissolve such political party, the right to vote at an election of the President or the executive board of directors of a political party shall be suspended for the period of five years as from the date such order is made.

[muttley]

It would seem as if we are coming to the time when ''Push comes to shove.''

This current maladministration is well aware of the house of cards it has constructed and exists in so now the time has come to move and take squatters rights on the whole of Thailand not just the states coffers.

The insatiable lust for absolute power,politically, financially and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes has become the habit which must be fed no matter what course of action is taken to find the wherewithal to feed this addiction.

Thailand and its peoples and what passes for democracy here is on the menu and in fact is the diet for the aforementioned Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes..

We are it would seem about to enter some more turbulent times as this desperate bid for power is eased onto the dining table by the brown nosing serfs and waiter's of the Thaksin clan.

Those serfs and waiters of course like the mongrels they are, are eagerly begging for the scraps from the table that the Thaksin clan might throw at them as a reward for their superb groveling and their submitting to the absolute power of the Thaksin clan.

Oh you do go on, don't you.

We've got the idea, we know you don't like the "Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes" of the, what is it, the "party of ticks and parasites"

but must you remind us in slightly differing versions in every single flipping thread!

Please come up with something new, but don't try too hard.

[muttley]

rubl, on 01 Apr 2013 - 14:46, said:

With the 2.2 trillion Baht special 286 MP's voted for the government, that's about 57.2%.

Anyway consitution changes should not be 'sailing through' by a slight majority of votes by the MP's of the party which forms the main partner in the government. That's not democratic.

Just to be sure we're talking about

Section 68. No person shall exercise the rights and liberties prescribed in the Constitution to overthrow the democratic regime of government with the King as Head of State under this Constitution or to acquire the power to rule the country by any means which is not in accordance with the modes provided in this Constitution.

In the case where a person or a political party has committed the act under paragraph one, the person knowing of such act shall have the right to request the Prosecutor General to investigate its facts and submit a motion to the Constitutional Court for ordering cessation of such act without, however, prejudice to the institution of a criminal action against such person.

In the case where the Constitutional Court makes a decision compelling the political party to cease to commit the act under paragraph two, the Constitutional Court may order the dissolution of such political party.

In the case where the Constitutional Court makes the dissolution order under paragraph three, the right to vote of the President and the executive board of directors of the dissolved political party at the time the act under paragraph one has been committed shall be suspended for the period of five years as from the date the Constitutional Court makes such order.

Section 190. The King has the prerogative to conclude a peace treaty, armistice and other treaties with other countries or international organisations.

A treaty which provides for a change in the Thai territories or the Thai external territories that Thailand has sovereign right or jurisdiction over such territories under any treaty or an international law or requires the enactment of an Act for its implementation or affects immensely to economic or social security of the country or results in the binding of trade, investment budget of the country significantly must be approved by the National Assembly. In such case, the National Assembly must complete its consideration within sixty days as from the date of receipt of such matter.

Before the conclusion of a treaty with other countries or international organisations under paragraph two, the Council of Ministers must provide information thereon to the public, conduct public consultation and state information in relevant thereto to the National Assembly. In such case, the Council of Ministers must submit negotiation framework to the National Assembly for approval.

Upon giving signature to the treaty under paragraph two, the Council of Ministers shall, prior to give consent to be bound, facilitate the public to get access to the details of such treaty. In the case where the application of such treaty has affected the public or small and medium entrepreneurs, the Council of Ministers must revise or render remedy to such effects rapidly, expediently and fairly.

There shall be a law determining measure and procedure for the conclusion of a treaty having immense effects to economic or social security of the country or resulting in the binding of trade or investment of the country significantly and the revision or rendering of remedy to the effects of such treaty with due regard to the fairness among the beneficiaries, the affected persons and the general public.

A matter arising from the provisions of paragraph two falls within the jurisdiction of the Constitutional Court and the provisions of section 154 (1) shall apply mutatis mutandis to the referring of the matter to the Constitutional Court.

Section 237. A candidate in an election who commits an act or causes or supports another person to act in violation of the organic law on election of members of the House of Representatives and acquisition of senators or regulations or notifications of the Election Commission which resulting in the election not to be honest and fair, his right to vote at an election shall be suspended under the organic law on election of members of the House of Representatives and acquisition of senators.

If it appears convincing evidence, through an act of the person under paragraph one, that the President or an executive board of director of a political party connives or neglects at such commission or such commission is known to him but he fails to deter or revise such commission for the maintenance of honest and fair election, it shall be deemed that such political party doing an act for the acquisition of the power to rule the country by means which is not in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution under section 68. In such case, if the Constitutional Court orders to dissolve such political party, the right to vote at an election of the President or the executive board of directors of a political party shall be suspended for the period of five years as from the date such order is made.

And your objections to the proposed changes?

Edit to add "Should you have any, that is"

Have they changed the rules of democracy, or is a 284 votes for vs 152 votes against, still a resounding win for the government - not according to your rules apparently.

Edited April 1, 2013 by muttley

[scorecard]

It would seem as if we are coming to the time when ''Push comes to shove.''

This current maladministration is well aware of the house of cards it has constructed and exists in so now the time has come to move and take squatters rights on the whole of Thailand not just the states coffers.

The insatiable lust for absolute power,politically, financially and the establishment of a new ruling dynasty by the Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes has become the habit which must be fed no matter what course of action is taken to find the wherewithal to feed this addiction.

Thailand and its peoples and what passes for democracy here is on the menu and in fact is the diet for the aforementioned Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes..

We are it would seem about to enter some more turbulent times as this desperate bid for power is eased onto the dining table by the brown nosing serfs and waiter's of the Thaksin clan.

Those serfs and waiters of course like the mongrels they are, are eagerly begging for the scraps from the table that the Thaksin clan might throw at them as a reward for their superb groveling and their submitting to the absolute power of the Thaksin clan.

Oh you do go on, don't you.

We've got the idea, we know you don't like the "Thaksin clan and their brown nosing acolytes" of the, what is it, the "party of ticks and parasites"

but must you remind us in slightly differing versions in every single flipping thread!

Please come up with something new, but don't try too hard.

Keep reminding.

[rubl]

#8 is for dear mutt's question.
I haven't seen the proposed text for a new, rewritten section 68, 190 and 237. Therefor I can only provide the text of the current version for our other members.

The proposed amendment might be given in full in Thai, but I'm afraid I rely on the English translation. So far I've only seen interpretations by the English language newspapers here, which includes what some reporters thought a politician was saying translated into Thaiglish. Now if you think I could form a proper opinion with the info graciously provided here by theNation ...

From what I've seen I would partially agree with the remarks on party dissolution. I think that would only be justifiable with very clear cases of party executive team misconduct in relation to the charter. The five year ban for offenders I see as proper though. Of course the aim of the Pheu Thai party to reduce the tremendous workload of the CC by more clear filtering is to be praised.

Constitution 2007 Section 255. Public prosecutors shall have the powers and duties as provided in this Constitution and the law on powers and duties of public prosecutors and other laws.

Public prosecutors are independent in considering and making orders to the cases and in the performance of duties for fairness.

The appointment and removal from office of the Prosecutor General shall be by the resolution of the Public Prosecutors Committee upon the approval of the Senate.

The President of the Senate shall countersign the Royal Command appointing the Prosecutor General.

The Public Prosecutors shall have its autonomous secretariat having autonomy in its personnel administration, budget and other activities, with the Prosecutor General as the superintendent as provided by law.

A public prosecutor shall neither being a member of the board of directors of a State enterprise or other enterprises of State having similar nature; provided that an approval is given by the Public Prosecutors Committee, nor engaging in any occupation or profession or in any enterprise that may affect the performance of his duties or may detriment the dignity of his office and shall not be a member of the board of directors, director, legal advisor or holding any other position having similar nature in any partnership or company.

The provisions of section 202 shall apply mutatis mutandis.

[ratcatcher]

Any amendments to the constitution should be done by the people ,not politicians, state your case , then put it to the people vote, politicians in Thailand have to understand that they work for the people not the other way around, have I said something funny here.

What you have said may sound funny to you but to me, sounds perfectly reasonable in a democracy and the politicians are supposed to be "civil servants" too.

[Locationthailand]

It's all too hard for my lowly ability to comprehend but I read this as these clowns have no right to modify the constitution they way they are going about it.