Learn To Ride A Big Bike.

[ROBINPATTAYA]

Hi all,

I have been here 5 years & have a car & 125 Wave.

It is becoming a little boring riding around on a small bike & I want some more excitement & a challenge in my life.

I would like to buy a much larger bike, say 750cc but have never ridden one.

Is there a riding school around Pattaya that can help teach me the techniques to survive on these roads & ride a big bike safely.

This is a serious post so please treat it as such,

Somewhere like Bira would be great, I have no idea where to start looking for a school.

Thanks in antipication for all serious replys'

[NeverSure]

Hi Robin, I'm a certified motorcycle instructor. Let me give you some tips about what your are looking for most.

1. You must learn how to countersteer a bike. That means that if you want to turn right, you must push forward on the right handle bar grip. That turns the front wheel slightly to the left, causing the bike to turn very positively to the right. Sounds crazy, but it will save your life. You cannot muscle a bike that weighs so much more than you do.

There are multiple forces at work which will cause it to have to turn right if you turn the front wheel left. One is that it will cause the bike to positively lean to the right and that's a great start. A second reason is that when it leans to the right, it will then be partly on the side of the rounded tire, running on a part of the tire which has a smaller diameter than the center of the tire.

Hear me on this. Put a Dixie cup on a table, on its side and roll it. It will for sure roll around the small end. Both ends are turning at the same RPM, but the big drinking lip has a faster rim speed. In order for the bigger end to turn at the same RPM as the small end, it must turn faster and cover a greater distance. So that cup will roll in a circle.

Your motorcycle tires are just like that. Lean the bike over and you have a diminishing contact surface. The surface touching the road which is closest to the center of the tread is turning faster than the contact closest to the rim. The tread surface, and the side nearest it, is turning at a faster rim speed than the wheel, and the tire part that's closest to it. So it is really like that Dixie cup. If you get the bike leaned over into the turn you want to make, the tires will do the turning just as surely as the Dixie cup will roll in a circle.

The initial countersteer is only to lay the bike over so that the "Dixie Cup" action can begin with the tires. This Dixie Cup force is greater than a slight countersteer, so you can continue to countersteer all the way through the turn.

This is exactly why some people on a bigger bike "fail to negotiate a turn." They turn the front wheel in the direction they want to go and the bike leans in the wrong direction instantly. Then they are out of control trying to get the bike upright, which means they must steer for the ditch. Too many riders have died for this simple reason.

Second, you must learn to use the front brake for at least 60% of your braking. I use about 70%. The reason is that when you apply the front brake, the bike dives onto the front wheel, transferring the bike's weight onto that tire and giving it traction. If you apply the rear brake mostly, nothing good happens with weight transfer and you have little traction. If you apply 50/50 or less, traction and weight still goes to the front tire and the back tire is actually relieved of weight and it just skids and maybe out of control. This is the very reason that the brakes on a car are much bigger in the front that in the back. The same principle is at work. This is why initially cars had disk brakes on the front only, and the drums on the back. Now many cars have 4 wheel disks, but the bias is to the front.

I'm gone to look for a YouTube vid of countersteering.

OK, here is a very basic one. NO ONE can muscle a big bike into doing this, but he does it with one hand down at his side, and a simple push with only the palm of his right hand.

Now may I please suggest that you just go to YouTube and search for countersteering and watch vids. It will save your life some day when you need to make a fast S turn around an obstacle in the street, or get into a corner going too fast.

Edited April 1, 2013 by NeverSure

[USNret]

Of course, the big difference between a Big Bike and your 125 Wave is that on a "real" bike you'll have to shift gears, and you do not have integrated braking (front & rear brake are operated separately). So your two hands & two feet are doing 5 different things: Clutch, shift, throttle, brake & brake.

My advice is to start out on something like a 450 or 550 cc as you grow your skills. It's nice having something a bit underpowered, as you are less likely hurt yourself. Once you feel "bored" on a bike of that size (at least a couple of months) then move up to a 750. The big problems with people getting hurt is they start out on an 1100 where a simple twist of the throttle has you literally at break-neck speeds before you know it. Panic & inexperience, combined with too much power are dangerous.

I barely need say (but I will) that drinking and riding don't mix. Not even one drink. You need your wits about you, undiminished. You must ride with the expectation that everyone around you is purposely trying to kill you; you must anticipate every goofball move that everyone might do because half of them will.

I don't know any riding schools but they will teach you defensive riding (hopefully); looking ahead and anticipating. Proper balance, leaning into the turn, and your passenger doing the same. Have fun with it!

[NeverSure]

You don't need to start on a small bike. The bigger the better because it's more stable. I've had people start on a Harley on an obstacle course. The only prerequisite was that they know how to drive a standard transmission in a car or pickup. If not we put them on a small bike like a 250 until they can co-ordinate the clutch, throttle and brakes. But if they are proficient with a clutch, we put them right on a Harley which in our case is 1450cc and about 750 pounds. Then we countersteer in the open. Then we brake to an exact spot. Then we make S turns through cones, by countersteering.

You don't lean into turns nor does your passenger. That's for people who don't know how to countersteer. Watch the vid above. No amount of "me" can make that bike do that. The bike has to do it by itself with a minor push on the right grip. That rider is absolutely leaning the other way, to the outside of the turn!!! The power of the countersteer is throwing him that way!!! The bike is doing all of the work, almost leaving him behind!!!

If your passenger leans, he puts you in danger. You want to control the bike yourself with countersteering. A passenger shifting weight can throw you off. Tell them to sit tight, just as the saddle and sissy bar do.

Edited April 1, 2013 by NeverSure

[LennyW]

You could try here.... http://highsidetours.com/

[NeverSure]

You could try here.... http://highsidetours.com/

That really looks like fun. Maybe or maybe not a bit much for a beginner.

Here's a picture from their site. Look at the countersteer, still holding in the middle of the turn. And he can adjust it as needed.

It's the countersteer that's holding the bike over where he wants it. Otherwise, centrifugal force would want to tip the bike up and over to the outside of the turn and he'd be toast.

Edited April 1, 2013 by NeverSure

[ROBINPATTAYA]

Hi Robin, I'm a certified motorcycle instructor. Let me give you some tips about what your are looking for most.

1. You must learn how to countersteer a bike. That means that if you want to turn right, you must push forward on the right handle bar grip. That turns the front wheel slightly to the left, causing the bike to turn very positively to the right. Sounds crazy, but it will save your life. You cannot muscle a bike that weighs so much more than you do.

There are multiple forces at work which will cause it to have to turn right if you turn the front wheel left. One is that it will cause the bike to positively lean to the right and that's a great start. A second reason is that when it leans to the right, it will then be partly on the side of the rounded tire, running on a part of the tire which has a smaller diameter than the center of the tire.

Hear me on this. Put a Dixie cup on a table, on its side and roll it. It will for sure roll around the small end. Both ends are turning at the same RPM, but the big drinking lip has a faster rim speed. In order for the bigger end to turn at the same RPM as the small end, it must turn faster and cover a greater distance. So that cup will roll in a circle.

Your motorcycle tires are just like that. Lean the bike over and you have a diminishing contact surface. The surface touching the road which is closest to the center of the tread is turning faster than the contact closest to the rim. The tread surface, and the side nearest it, is turning at a faster rim speed than the wheel, and the tire part that's closest to it. So it is really like that Dixie cup. If you get the bike leaned over into the turn you want to make, the tires will do the turning just as surely as the Dixie cup will roll in a circle.

The initial countersteer is only to lay the bike over so that the "Dixie Cup" action can begin with the tires. This Dixie Cup force is greater than a slight countersteer, so you can continue to countersteer all the way through the turn.

This is exactly why some people on a bigger bike "fail to negotiate a turn." They turn the front wheel in the direction they want to go and the bike leans in the wrong direction instantly. Then they are out of control trying to get the bike upright, which means they must steer for the ditch. Too many riders have died for this simple reason.

Second, you must learn to use the front brake for at least 60% of your braking. I use about 70%. The reason is that when you apply the front brake, the bike dives onto the front wheel, transferring the bike's weight onto that tire and giving it traction. If you apply the rear brake mostly, nothing good happens with weight transfer and you have little traction. If you apply 50/50 or less, traction and weight still goes to the front tire and the back tire is actually relieved of weight and it just skids and maybe out of control. This is the very reason that the brakes on a car are much bigger in the front that in the back. The same principle is at work. This is why initially cars had disk brakes on the front only, and the drums on the back. Now many cars have 4 wheel disks, but the bias is to the front.

I'm gone to look for a YouTube vid of countersteering.

OK, here is a very basic one. NO ONE can muscle a big bike into doing this, but he does it with one hand down at his side, and a simple push with only the palm of his right hand.

Now may I please suggest that you just go to YouTube and search for countersteering and watch vids. It will save your life some day when you need to make a fast S turn around an obstacle in the street, or get into a corner going too fast.

Thanks for all the trouble in preparing the above, you obviously are committed to your sport & I appreciate all the info.

I have popped an email off to the riding school listed in another post, I will wait until I hear back from them.

I have an unrestricted licence in Australia based on my Thai licence, it was issues after a 1 day training course held on scooters.

That is an absolute joke but it happens, consists of some theory, some practical of riding through cones, emergency stopping etc.

That is the reason why I want to have some REAL knowledge before I hit the roads. (hopefully not literally)

Thanks,

Rob

[JSixpack]

Suggest you rent a big bike before buying (assuming you can ride it). I had big bike in PTY for years (which I never counter steered) and was SO glad to get rid of it. Traffic is so bad now you'll hardly get of out 1st gear. Hard to maneuver so you'll have to sit in line with the cars and sweat, takes forever to get anywhere, Hard to find a parking space small enough; can't get out of crowded motorbike parking lots.

A big ol' bike unsupported by any legit chain of dealers leaves you open to headaches and ripoffs from the independent shops.

Just not practical around town, and how often are you really going to ride out? Scenery ain't very interesting around PTY.

My lowly Phantom is almost too big now. Stick to your Wave or get a Honda CBR150 or 250 at most.

Edited April 1, 2013 by JSixpack

[NeverSure]

The thing is, that a skilled rider, countsteering and braking properly, can out-maneuver a small scooter all day long. I also like the feel of the weight if something were to hit me - say rear-end me. Then when getting on any highway, the bike is so, so much more stable.

Look at this guy on this FLH Harley. This is the big road bike. Not many can do this on a scooter simply because they don't know how. This guy is making the bike do all of the work by proper countersteering and braking. You can bet he doesn't think the bike is too big.

[NeverSure]

Hi Robin, I'm a certified motorcycle instructor. Let me give you some tips about what your are looking for most.

1. You must learn how to countersteer a bike. That means that if you want to turn right, you must push forward on the right handle bar grip. That turns the front wheel slightly to the left, causing the bike to turn very positively to the right. Sounds crazy, but it will save your life. You cannot muscle a bike that weighs so much more than you do.

There are multiple forces at work which will cause it to have to turn right if you turn the front wheel left. One is that it will cause the bike to positively lean to the right and that's a great start. A second reason is that when it leans to the right, it will then be partly on the side of the rounded tire, running on a part of the tire which has a smaller diameter than the center of the tire.

Hear me on this. Put a Dixie cup on a table, on its side and roll it. It will for sure roll around the small end. Both ends are turning at the same RPM, but the big drinking lip has a faster rim speed. In order for the bigger end to turn at the same RPM as the small end, it must turn faster and cover a greater distance. So that cup will roll in a circle.

Your motorcycle tires are just like that. Lean the bike over and you have a diminishing contact surface. The surface touching the road which is closest to the center of the tread is turning faster than the contact closest to the rim. The tread surface, and the side nearest it, is turning at a faster rim speed than the wheel, and the tire part that's closest to it. So it is really like that Dixie cup. If you get the bike leaned over into the turn you want to make, the tires will do the turning just as surely as the Dixie cup will roll in a circle.

The initial countersteer is only to lay the bike over so that the "Dixie Cup" action can begin with the tires. This Dixie Cup force is greater than a slight countersteer, so you can continue to countersteer all the way through the turn.

This is exactly why some people on a bigger bike "fail to negotiate a turn." They turn the front wheel in the direction they want to go and the bike leans in the wrong direction instantly. Then they are out of control trying to get the bike upright, which means they must steer for the ditch. Too many riders have died for this simple reason.

Second, you must learn to use the front brake for at least 60% of your braking. I use about 70%. The reason is that when you apply the front brake, the bike dives onto the front wheel, transferring the bike's weight onto that tire and giving it traction. If you apply the rear brake mostly, nothing good happens with weight transfer and you have little traction. If you apply 50/50 or less, traction and weight still goes to the front tire and the back tire is actually relieved of weight and it just skids and maybe out of control. This is the very reason that the brakes on a car are much bigger in the front that in the back. The same principle is at work. This is why initially cars had disk brakes on the front only, and the drums on the back. Now many cars have 4 wheel disks, but the bias is to the front.

I'm gone to look for a YouTube vid of countersteering.

OK, here is a very basic one. NO ONE can muscle a big bike into doing this, but he does it with one hand down at his side, and a simple push with only the palm of his right hand.

Now may I please suggest that you just go to YouTube and search for countersteering and watch vids. It will save your life some day when you need to make a fast S turn around an obstacle in the street, or get into a corner going too fast.

Thanks for all the trouble in preparing the above, you obviously are committed to your sport & I appreciate all the info.

I have popped an email off to the riding school listed in another post, I will wait until I hear back from them.

I have an unrestricted licence in Australia based on my Thai licence, it was issues after a 1 day training course held on scooters.

That is an absolute joke but it happens, consists of some theory, some practical of riding through cones, emergency stopping etc.

That is the reason why I want to have some REAL knowledge before I hit the roads. (hopefully not literally)

Thanks,

Rob

You're welcome and have fun with it.

I forgot to tell you how to make a sharp U-turn, like in the middle of a street or even a parking lot. You slip the clutch while slightly riding the brake. You make a quick countersteer to get the bike's turn started, and then drag the rear brake while slipping the clutch.

In principle, you are going fairly but not too slow, and the bike is leaning with the turn. If the bike starts to lean over too much you release the brake and the bike speeds and straightens up a little. If it gets too straight and isn't making the turn, you add brake. That's the principle but in practice it's more natural than that. With a little practice it's automatic, just like steering or braking or operating the clutch.

This is how the guy in the police competition is getting around those cones so tightly, how the pair is turning so close together, and how the guy at the end is keeping that big FLH Harley upright while almost stopped, and no foot touches the ground.

[JSixpack]

The thing is, that a skilled rider, countsteering and braking properly, can out-maneuver a small scooter all day long.

Yeah, well, lotsa luck with that in PTY traffic where a big bike can't even get between the lanes (or jump onto the sidewalk, heh, heh). I just see that kind of riding all the time by our local big bikers.

I also like the feel of the weight if something were to hit me - say rear-end me.

Nothing so delightful as the sound of your bones crushing under the weight of a big bike! You can test this in advance: just sit on your scooter and let it fall over on you, then do the same with a big bike (as I've seen when a kickstand wasn't quite in place). Now imagine the various scenarios. You might come out ahead in an accordian scenario in which you're rear ended and crushed between two cars. Yeah, yeah, skilled big bike driver will maneuver away from all accidents, jump off just in time, big bike so much safer, blah, blah. Edited April 1, 2013 by JSixpack

[NeverSure]

The thing is, that a skilled rider, countsteering and braking properly, can out-maneuver a small scooter all day long.

Yeah, well, lotsa luck with that in PTY traffic where a big bike can't even get between the lanes (or jump onto the sidewalk, heh, heh). I just see that kind of riding all the time by our local big bikers.

>I also like the feel of the weight if something were to hit me - say rear-end me.

Nothing so delightful as the sound of your bones crushing under the weight of a big bike! You can test this in advance: just sit on your scooter and let it fall over on you, then do the same with a big bike (as I've seen when a kickstand wasn't quite in place). Now imagine the various scenarios. You might come out ahead in an accordian scenario in which you're rear ended and crushed between two cars. Yeah, yeah, skilled big bike driver will maneuver away from all accidents, jump off just time, big bike so much safer, blah, blah.

I'm sure you don't see that kind of riding. A real class with pass/fail on those skills isn't required to get a license in LOS. A lot of people die, too unfortunately.

Sorry, but I've never had a big bike fall over on me. First, they are stable and second, the couple of times I've dropped one I stepped off it. Both time were in loose gravel at low speed trying to find out if something was possible and apparently it wasn't.

All you're doing for me is showing not only that you don't really ride, but that you don't want to learn. Sorry. I hope you survive it.

[shaggy1969]

Some great tips there Neversure.

@ ROBINPATTAYA.Welcome to the world of big bike riding.

I have been in the saddle for almost 30 years now and had many accidents when I was learning and the scars to prove it (99% my own fault )

If you are planning on getting a big bike then a good instructor is the best start (I learned by myself and from my friends.....ouch !!!!)

Also what might be a good idea is to have your first big bike fitted with fall bars,they may look a bit unsightly but they can save your legs from getting bent,broke or skinned.

Also learning what gear you are in when braking is important,learning how to brake and 'change down' at the same time can also save you .......it's ok learning how to stop in a hurry but if you can accelerate away after you have stopped this can help you avoid being 'rear ended'.

Mirrors are your best friend....learn to use them without thinking know what is behind you,at the side of you and most important what is in front of you.You need to own the road that you are riding,always try and put yourself in your own safety zone......if there is nothing near you then it is one less hazard.

Foresight......know where you are on the road,what the road surface is,where the other road users are,what the next corner is,animals at the side of the road.so many things to take into account,but this all becomes second nature after a while.

Do you have any thoughts on what bike you would like to ride? Cruiser,Sports.....

You are entering into a world of fun and I hope you enjoy and stay safe.

Shaggy

P.s.......one more tip......keep the rubber side down !!!!!!

[NeverSure]

Some great tips there Neversure.

@ ROBINPATTAYA.Welcome to the world of big bike riding.

I have been in the saddle for almost 30 years now and had many accidents when I was learning and the scars to prove it (99% my own fault )

If you are planning on getting a big bike then a good instructor is the best start (I learned by myself and from my friends.....ouch !!!!)

Also what might be a good idea is to have your first big bike fitted with fall bars,they may look a bit unsightly but they can save your legs from getting bent,broke or skinned.

Also learning what gear you are in when braking is important,learning how to brake and 'change down' at the same time can also save you .......it's ok learning how to stop in a hurry but if you can accelerate away after you have stopped this can help you avoid being 'rear ended'.

Mirrors are your best friend....learn to use them without thinking know what is behind you,at the side of you and most important what is in front of you.You need to own the road that you are riding,always try and put yourself in your own safety zone......if there is nothing near you then it is one less hazard.

Foresight......know where you are on the road,what the road surface is,where the other road users are,what the next corner is,animals at the side of the road.so many things to take into account,but this all becomes second nature after a while.

Do you have any thoughts on what bike you would like to ride? Cruiser,Sports.....

You are entering into a world of fun and I hope you enjoy and stay safe.

Shaggy

P.s.......one more tip......keep the rubber side down !!!!!!

Absolutely excellent advice.

Learning to down-shift as the bike slows to be ready to accelerate away is excellent advice. It should become a habit. You can tell by the "whir" of the syncros when it's time to make the next downshift.

I agree, I do like at least a front crash bar for leg protection, but again I've never dropped a bike at speed so I've always been able to just step off at very low speed in gravel. I may not always be so lucky though.

[JSixpack]

All you're doing for me is showing not only that you don't really ride, but that you don't want to learn. Sorry. I hope you survive it.

LOL. I'm hardly worried after riding all these many years, not to say that caution isn't always warranted. What I'm telling the OP is that driving a big bike in Pattaya (or Bangkok) traffic (and parking) is a LOT more inconvenient and slower than driving a small bike, though it's nice for posing--and, true, posing is often quite important for big bikers; otherwise, they'd get rid of that millstone. (Highway driving, yes, love a big bike there--but how much of it are you really gonna do?) And most everyone with common sense knows that, esp. those who've done both.

In your traffic cone obstacle course, there was at least room for a big bike to maneuver by a very skilled rider. But, you see, often in PTY there isn't even that much room. If it ain't there, countersteering ain't gonna put it there.

It's also silly to pretend a small bike couldn't maneuver the traffic cones at least as well (my concession to you) but probably faster and easier. Sorry!

So I stand by my original advice to the OP: rent and try for a while before you buy. You may change your mind, and find some smaller sportbikes a lot more fun anyway.

Edited April 1, 2013 by JSixpack

[shaggy1969]

Got to agree with JSixpack regarding city riding......give me a moped any day,have ridden big bikes in Patts and BKK,could of got where I needed to go a lot quicker and easier on a scoot.

Let's not turn this thread into a pissing contest,I am sure that you are both wonderful pissers !!!!......be it on a big bike or small

[NeverSure]

All you're doing for me is showing not only that you don't really ride, but that you don't want to learn. Sorry. I hope you survive it.

LOL. I'm hardly worried after riding all these many years. What I'm telling the OP is that driving a big bike in Pattaya (or Bangkok) traffic (and parking) is a LOT more inconvenient and slower than driving a small bike, though it's nice for posing--and, true, posing is often quite important for big bikers; otherwise, they'd get rid of that millstone. (Highway driving, yes, love a big bike there--but how much of it are you really gonna do?) And most everyone with common sense knows that, esp. those who've done both.

In your traffic cone obstacle course, there was at least room for a big bike to maneuver by a very skilled rider. But, you see, often in PTY there isn't even that much room. If it ain't there, countersteering ain't gonna put it there.

It's also silly to pretend a small bike couldn't maneuver the traffic cones at least as well (my concession to you) but probably faster and easier. Sorry!

So I stand by my original advice to the OP: rent and try for a while before you buy. You may change your mind, and find some smaller sportbikes a lot more fun anyway.

I worded my sentence wrong, but still I didn't say what you say I said. Here's what I said:

"The thing is, that a skilled rider, countersteering and braking properly, can out-maneuver a small scooter all day long."

I didn't say that a skilled rider on a Harley could outmaneuver a skilled rider on a scooter. I clearly did not. I was trying to make the point and I stand by it, that a skilled rider on a Harley will outmaneuver an ordinary scooter rider every time.

What I see in LOS is a lot of unskilled riders. I don't see riders who can make a U-turn in a normal street even if there is room (U-turns are common in LOS) or who can make abrupt but skilled defensive moves. Instead, I see them crash smack dab into what's in front of them. I see them try to stop without also turning to try collision avoidance. They just freeze and hit the brakes. I have NEVER seen a good abrupt turn made by a single motorcycle rider when needed, and they simply don't require those skills in LOS to get a license.

Where I live, you have to ride your scoot on a course made of cones and striping for two whole days, and get me or someone like me to sign your certificate before you can get a motorcycle endorsement on your driver's license. During those two days, 12 people are given instruction and then they are tested at the end. About 2/3 pass, and the rest either give up or take the course again.

I've never seen anyone who could pass the test without actually getting the instruction and practice.

Edited April 1, 2013 by NeverSure

[ROBINPATTAYA]

Some great tips there Neversure.

@ ROBINPATTAYA.Welcome to the world of big bike riding.

I have been in the saddle for almost 30 years now and had many accidents when I was learning and the scars to prove it (99% my own fault )

If you are planning on getting a big bike then a good instructor is the best start (I learned by myself and from my friends.....ouch !!!!)

Also what might be a good idea is to have your first big bike fitted with fall bars,they may look a bit unsightly but they can save your legs from getting bent,broke or skinned.

Also learning what gear you are in when braking is important,learning how to brake and 'change down' at the same time can also save you .......it's ok learning how to stop in a hurry but if you can accelerate away after you have stopped this can help you avoid being 'rear ended'.

Mirrors are your best friend....learn to use them without thinking know what is behind you,at the side of you and most important what is in front of you.You need to own the road that you are riding,always try and put yourself in your own safety zone......if there is nothing near you then it is one less hazard.

Foresight......know where you are on the road,what the road surface is,where the other road users are,what the next corner is,animals at the side of the road.so many things to take into account,but this all becomes second nature after a while.

Do you have any thoughts on what bike you would like to ride? Cruiser,Sports.....

You are entering into a world of fun and I hope you enjoy and stay safe.

Shaggy

P.s.......one more tip......keep the rubber side down !!!!!!

I ws originally looking at the Versys 650 but believe there is a slight problem with a high seat configuration.

The other option was a Suzuki V Storm 650.

Read write ups on both & they seem similiar in most areas.

I would like a cruizer bike but they all seem to be much larger than I was looking for.

I would prefer a used bike incase the novelty wears off after a while, I am in no real hurry to get a bike either,

Cheers

All comments & suggestions welcome

[longstebe]

At least you've got the brains to seek advice. Good man.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[davethailand]

I'd never ridden a motorbike with gears before coming here 11 years ago.

My ex business partner bought a Honda sonic 125 with a clutch and I learned to ride that on mini siam go kart track (friend owned it) it was good because it was safe with no other traffic.

From there I had a 200cc Honda Phantom and a bit later on when confident I used to rent CB400's, then A 600 Fireblade then eventually an R1.

I'm not suggesting the sports bikes but it was good to build up confidence and more importantly respect how powerful the bigger bikes were, Years later on I bought a HD Fatboy which I did over 15000km all around Thailand and Malaysia.

I'd possibly rent and go bigger when you feel ready then buy when your sure what you want and maybe start off on rides to Ban Chang or similar where the roads quieten down.

Not massive but my mates just bought the new Kawasaki 250z and its lovely, not too big and not too small, perfect for round Pattaya.

[poanoi]

It took me 2 weeks getting use to 1100 with clutch and 1 down 4 up,

with my previous experience was 125 no clutch and gear keep going down.

But i will never get use to the endless traffic jam that is pattaya now,

and i will also never get use to the crooks charge me on false grounds

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I bought a 750cc bike and just practiced a bit, after reading up on the Internet and watching some Youtube vids. Including the stuff on brake balance and counter steering.

It's easy enough. Turns out the counter steering is a lot more intuitive in real life than it is when you see it in theory.

However you spend relatively a lot of time in traffic jams in the blazing sun. You'll wish you had something convenient that's actually faster around town, like a PCX.

Also, as this is Pattaya, sooner rather than later you will have an accident no matter what the vehicle. With a big bike, that'll be a relatively messy accident.

Edited April 1, 2013 by WinnieTheKhwai

[NeverSure]

I bought a 750cc bike and just practiced a bit, after reading up on the Internet and watching some Youtube vids. Including the stuff on brake balance and counter steering.

It's easy enough. Turns out the counter steering is a lot more intuitive in real life than it is when you see it in theory.

However you spend relatively a lot of time in traffic jams in the blazing sun. You'll wish you had something convenient that's actually faster around town, like a PCX.

Also, as this is Pattaya, sooner rather than later you will have an accident no matter what the vehicle. With a big bike, that'll be a relatively messy accident.

I can't argue with a scooter for zipping around town. I will say that if I have an accident I would far rather be on a big bike, just as I'd far rather be in a big car or better yet a loaded concrete mixer.

Your collision might with a scooter. If so, your kinetic energy is going to transfer to his bike and he will get blown away. You'll run over him.

If you get bumped and hit something else, you also have that kinetic energy to push over a sign post or crumple not only what is in front of you but your own bike.

It's the sudden stop that gets you. The more weight you have to push into something, even if it's broadside into a car door, the slower the stop and the better your chances.

If someone rear ends you or hits you head on, they have more bike to crush before they get to you. Also, you have your bike's inertia and/or kinetic energy to help, and a far better crumple zone around you.

If you can really make a big bike dance without extra physical effort but rather making the bike do the work, you might decide that little scooter is too vulnerable. Up to you.

[NeverSure]

I forgot to talk about how to enter and exit curves at speed.

I also forgot to talk about the imperative of looking at the point where you want the bike to go. Magically, once countersteering is intuitive, a bike will go where you are looking.

Here are some more vids. "The Dragon" or "The Tail of The Dragon" is very winding and dangerous stretch of road at Deal's Gap in the mountains of E. USA. Most serious motorcycle riders want to someday ride it. Link

Fast forward the first one to 60 seconds.

Edited April 1, 2013 by NeverSure

[Banzai99]

In Pattaya now, get a scooter, PCX sort of thing.

When I came to Pattaya in late 1990, I learnt on a 400cc, 3 weeks later I bought a Honda Magna 750cc, great bike, took that bike everywhere, later got a Suzuki 1400cc Intruder and then a Honda Shadow 1100cc, good fun, but, this was in the days when you could give it some stick, even in Pattaya, now impossible.

I remember the times I could park my pick up in Soi Yamoto or soi Post office any time of day or night, now impossible.

Big bikes in Pattaya are a waste now, Honda Clicks would be much faster round town.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I remember the times I could park my pick-up in soi Yodsak.

Oh wait, that was last week.

[JSixpack]

I bought a 750cc bike and just practiced a bit, after reading up on the Internet and watching some Youtube vids. Including the stuff on brake balance and counter steering.

It's easy enough. Turns out the counter steering is a lot more intuitive in real life than it is when you see it in theory.

However you spend relatively a lot of time in traffic jams in the blazing sun. You'll wish you had something convenient that's actually faster around town, like a PCX.

Also, as this is Pattaya, sooner rather than later you will have an accident no matter what the vehicle. With a big bike, that'll be a relatively messy accident.

I can't argue with a scooter for zipping around town.

Finally you agree with me.

I will say that if I have an accident I would far rather be on a big bike, just as I'd far rather be in a big car or better yet a loaded concrete mixer.

Depends on the accident, so it's impossible to predict. May well be your neck's broke either way, as with that Brit driving a big bike in front of Big C a few years ago. He didn't survive the lamppost. Or you might fall in a hole, as did a German riding his Harley on Sukhumvit a year or so ago. Big bike didn't save him, in fact might have helped kill him.

Can be also argued that a larger bike increases the probability of accidents as it invites excessive speed and risk-taking. Hence the disporportionate number of accidents on big bikes by farangs in PTY. (I know, the drivers, but still.) Again a few years ago in Isaan, farang proudly jumped to be first off the line--only to run into a truck that had suddently pulled out in front of him. On a lower-powered bike, he wouldn't have gone so fast.

But I won't argue that point because I'm just observing that, large or small, cruiser or sport, all have their advantages and disadvantages. It's easy to construct accident scenarios in which a particular type would come out ahead. Most of us who've driven both large and small do, I think, regard larger bikes as the more dangerous--as WinnieTheKhwai suggests above, but you may disagree with those of us who don't know how to ride. In any case, suffice it to say that the supposed safety of the bike design plays little or no part in a decision to buy a bike, with the exception perhaps of ABS. For driving around Pattaya nowadays I'd take a smaller bike without worrying excessively. Traffic moves so slowly that even if you're scrunched between two vehicles, it's probably not going to enough force to make you wish you were on a DragStar.

Edited April 2, 2013 by JSixpack

[jbrain]

I'm an experienced biker as I have owned big bikes for the past 35 years and do so for 15 years in Thailand, I even had my own stunt team in my home country .

However I will NEVER ride my bike in Pattaya for the reason Jsixpack mentioned already, that you hardly get out of 1st gear and another reason is that Pattaya scares me.

A big bike is not as easy to handle as scooter due to it's weight, and you need at least 8 eyes as they come from everywhere but the sky, but I sure one day they will manage that as well.

I have made regular trips all over Thailand in the past years, but when I return from a 2-3000 Km trip the sweat appears in my hands as soon as I reach Naklua.

Edited April 2, 2013 by jbrain

[Banzai99]

I remember the times I could park my pick-up in soi Yodsak.

Oh wait, that was last week.

I'm gonna call BS on that, I w

I remember the times I could park my pick-up in soi Yodsak.

Oh wait, that was last week.

Really, you got a special ThaiVisa pass ?

[fasteddie]

Some great tips there Neversure.

@ ROBINPATTAYA.Welcome to the world of big bike riding.

I have been in the saddle for almost 30 years now and had many accidents when I was learning and the scars to prove it (99% my own fault )

If you are planning on getting a big bike then a good instructor is the best start (I learned by myself and from my friends.....ouch !!!!)

Also what might be a good idea is to have your first big bike fitted with fall bars,they may look a bit unsightly but they can save your legs from getting bent,broke or skinned.

Also learning what gear you are in when braking is important,learning how to brake and 'change down' at the same time can also save you .......it's ok learning how to stop in a hurry but if you can accelerate away after you have stopped this can help you avoid being 'rear ended'.

Mirrors are your best friend....learn to use them without thinking know what is behind you,at the side of you and most important what is in front of you.You need to own the road that you are riding,always try and put yourself in your own safety zone......if there is nothing near you then it is one less hazard.

Foresight......know where you are on the road,what the road surface is,where the other road users are,what the next corner is,animals at the side of the road.so many things to take into account,but this all becomes second nature after a while.

Do you have any thoughts on what bike you would like to ride? Cruiser,Sports.....

You are entering into a world of fun and I hope you enjoy and stay safe.

Shaggy

P.s.......one more tip......keep the rubber side down !!!!!!

Here Here, good post and a lot more informative than all that countersteering blather!