Is My Wife Joking ?

[skylar]

There is no compelling reason why the average Thai child should waste their precious time in the school system on redundant subjects such as world geography or history and the like. <snip>

That utalitarian way of thinking indicates that you are indeed operating in the last century, or perhaps even in the century before that. Learning the arts is important in being able to think critically. There is not always one answer to everything - there can be many, or none at all. Essay writing skills include being able to construct an argument and debate different points of view, which are useful and healthy for the mind and are skills one can take outside the classroom.

In addition, life is not about wasting precious time, and should not be seen as means to an end. I'm not going to look back in 70 years time and think about how useful I was to some economy.

[GuestHouse]

Just read your post out to my wife who is a graduate in archaeology, she was half asleep but she had no idea what you were referring to but is very interested to find out - so please expand on that point.

Ask your wife who the famous Thai archiologists are, and consider who among them might have an opinion that could be construed as infallible.

[Jalla]

For all you guys going on about the swastika, how many know what this symbol means????

Rizla rolling paper pack......

[TokyoT]

TokioT: "Thailand’s Political History" do you know is it available in Thailand? Is it readable for someone whos motherlanguage is not english (me)?

Yes - I picked my copy up at Villa Market Sukhumvit Soi 49.

[soic]

I truly get so tired of hearing about insularism. I don't normally respond to attacks against America, but I do have to say that I have had enough. I get so tired of hearing people bash America. Where would the World be without America? No, America isn't perfect, show me a country that is. As for INSULAR, oh that we could be. America is the single nation that the world runs to when they're in trouble. The Balkans was a good example... Kosovo and Bosnia, I was in both of those conflicts as well. The people weren't angry that we were there, they were angry that we HAD to be there. The people were angry that the Europeans couldn't clean up their own backyard. Does anyone honestly think that America wants to send it's men and women to fight and die for other peoples of other nations? We don't, but we still do, because it's the right thing to do. I've got news for you, the right thing to do is rarely the popular thing to do.

It's always easiest to throw stones at somebody from the stands. Let someone join us on the field. I get tired of the hypocrisy as well. Germany, France and Austria said "America is evil because they went into Iraq". Well let me tell you something, the only reason that they didn't want us to go in there was because Saddam owed them money for the Biological equipment they were supplying him with. Now the regime has been toppled, they don't want to forgive the debt, and they're screaming that they should be allowed to participate in the rebuilding effort. The only reason that they didn't want to participate in the Iraq effort was profit based, the only reason they want to participate in the rebuilding is profit based. What part of that is noble. I'll tell you what, I'd rather be on the side that I'm on. We're doing an unpopular thing, for a good reason. They printed so much about the things they didn't find, but rarely have given the same coverage for the things that they did find, chemicals for WMD, Mass Graves, Torture Chambers. They've found mass graves in cities, hundreds of people buried under the streets. Stories from the people of the depravity. One of Saddam's son's kidnapped a virgin bride from her wedding, beat her, raped her and then killed her, on her wedding day.

Most of the stone throwers at America are able to do so because they're well fed and healthy from American subidies. Americans have given more in support of other countries than any other country in the world. Just imagine a world to live in, if America finally listened to the whiners, complainers and hypocrites. What would the world be like if America truly did become INSULAR and said... "Well folks, you told us to butt out, and leave you alone. Ok, See ya! Don't call us, we'll call you!"

I'll apologize now for the tirade, I just get fed up sometimes. If anybody thinks that any other country could do better, let that country step up to the plate. I'm sure that there are many of other Americans that would gladly hand the mantle over. It's really hard to continue supporting people with our tax dollars, offering up our sons and daughters to save other people and still being called the bad guy.

[longway]

I truly get so tired of hearing about insularism. I don't normally respond to attacks against America, but I do have to say that I have had enough. I get so tired of hearing people bash America. Where would the World be without America? No, America isn't perfect, show me a country that is. As for INSULAR, oh that we could be. America is the single nation that the world runs to when they're in trouble. The Balkans was a good example... Kosovo and Bosnia, I was in both of those conflicts as well. The people weren't angry that we were there, they were angry that we HAD to be there. The people were angry that the Europeans couldn't clean up their own backyard. Does anyone honestly think that America wants to send it's men and women to fight and die for other peoples of other nations? We don't, but we still do, because it's the right thing to do. I've got news for you, the right thing to do is rarely the popular thing to do.

It's always easiest to throw stones at somebody from the stands. Let someone join us on the field. I get tired of the hypocrisy as well. Germany, France and Austria said "America is evil because they went into Iraq". Well let me tell you something, the only reason that they didn't want us to go in there was because Saddam owed them money for the Biological equipment they were supplying him with. Now the regime has been toppled, they don't want to forgive the debt, and they're screaming that they should be allowed to participate in the rebuilding effort. The only reason that they didn't want to participate in the Iraq effort was profit based, the only reason they want to participate in the rebuilding is profit based. What part of that is noble. I'll tell you what, I'd rather be on the side that I'm on. We're doing an unpopular thing, for a good reason. They printed so much about the things they didn't find, but rarely have given the same coverage for the things that they did find, chemicals for WMD, Mass Graves, Torture Chambers. They've found mass graves in cities, hundreds of people buried under the streets. Stories from the people of the depravity. One of Saddam's son's kidnapped a virgin bride from her wedding, beat her, raped her and then killed her, on her wedding day.

Most of the stone throwers at America are able to do so because they're well fed and healthy from American subidies. Americans have given more in support of other countries than any other country in the world. Just imagine a world to live in, if America finally listened to the whiners, complainers and hypocrites. What would the world be like if America truly did become INSULAR and said... "Well folks, you told us to butt out, and leave you alone. Ok, See ya! Don't call us, we'll call you!"

I'll apologize now for the tirade, I just get fed up sometimes. If anybody thinks that any other country could do better, let that country step up to the plate. I'm sure that there are many of other Americans that would gladly hand the mantle over. It's really hard to continue supporting people with our tax dollars, offering up our sons and daughters to save other people and still being called the bad guy.

your opinion is the progoganda version of american involvement in the world.

[English Noodles]

For all you guys going on about the swastika, how many know what this symbol means????

Rizla rolling paper pack......

[h90]

I truly get so tired of hearing about insularism. I don't normally respond to attacks against America, but I do have to say that I have had enough. I get so tired of hearing people bash America. Where would the World be without America? No, America isn't perfect, show me a country that is. As for INSULAR, oh that we could be. America is the single nation that the world runs to when they're in trouble. The Balkans was a good example... Kosovo and Bosnia, I was in both of those conflicts as well. The people weren't angry that we were there, they were angry that we HAD to be there. The people were angry that the Europeans couldn't clean up their own backyard. Does anyone honestly think that America wants to send it's men and women to fight and die for other peoples of other nations? We don't, but we still do, because it's the right thing to do. I've got news for you, the right thing to do is rarely the popular thing to do.

It's always easiest to throw stones at somebody from the stands. Let someone join us on the field. I get tired of the hypocrisy as well. Germany, France and Austria said "America is evil because they went into Iraq". Well let me tell you something, the only reason that they didn't want us to go in there was because Saddam owed them money for the Biological equipment they were supplying him with. Now the regime has been toppled, they don't want to forgive the debt, and they're screaming that they should be allowed to participate in the rebuilding effort. The only reason that they didn't want to participate in the Iraq effort was profit based, the only reason they want to participate in the rebuilding is profit based. What part of that is noble. I'll tell you what, I'd rather be on the side that I'm on. We're doing an unpopular thing, for a good reason. They printed so much about the things they didn't find, but rarely have given the same coverage for the things that they did find, chemicals for WMD, Mass Graves, Torture Chambers. They've found mass graves in cities, hundreds of people buried under the streets. Stories from the people of the depravity. One of Saddam's son's kidnapped a virgin bride from her wedding, beat her, raped her and then killed her, on her wedding day.

Most of the stone throwers at America are able to do so because they're well fed and healthy from American subidies. Americans have given more in support of other countries than any other country in the world. Just imagine a world to live in, if America finally listened to the whiners, complainers and hypocrites. What would the world be like if America truly did become INSULAR and said... "Well folks, you told us to butt out, and leave you alone. Ok, See ya! Don't call us, we'll call you!"

I'll apologize now for the tirade, I just get fed up sometimes. If anybody thinks that any other country could do better, let that country step up to the plate. I'm sure that there are many of other Americans that would gladly hand the mantle over. It's really hard to continue supporting people with our tax dollars, offering up our sons and daughters to save other people and still being called the bad guy.

your opinion is the progoganda version of american involvement in the world.

agree: thats brainwashed, but not his fault, what do you think what they tell at the army, but don't want to start an Iraq discussion as it is not thailand related....

TokyoT: Sorry: Sukhumvit in which city? BKK? Because Sukhumvit is endless long and starts it sois in every city again with 1 (I think)

[the gent]

Longway,

If you are going to post at least try and make an effort to spell correctly what appears to be the only point you are trying to make.

Soic's post deserves better, don't you think?

The justification for intervention has been clouded by the red herring of WMD. Everyone knows it was simply a pretext but that shouldn't obscure the fact that whatever the reason, the Iraq war was, and remains, well intentioned. That the conduct of the occupation has been handled ineptly does not alter that fact. Admittedly, civil war is approaching but in truth that is simply an event which has been postponed from years ago and was inevitable.

[TokyoT]

TokyoT: Sorry: Sukhumvit in which city? BKK? Because Sukhumvit is endless long and starts it sois in every city again with 1 (I think)

h90: Bangkok.

As for soic's post - h90 this is part of the reason the mods try to control USA posts coming inside other threads. Not that I find anything necessarily incorrect in soic’s post. Just that it does not belong in this thread as it will inevitably lead to a sting of posts that are off topic.

And while we are off topic – while you and longway may find soic’s post to be propaganda. I would say no one is getting the real picture from any of the news outlets. The European press projects European idea’s, the US press projects US ideas. While I doubt the US intentions where quite as virtuous as the government portrays them, I also doubt that their intentions are quite as green/black in color as the European press paints them. And as soic’s post points out I think that the European powers that decided not to participate probably also had other motives as well.

IMHO the mistake the US made at the beginning of the conflict was to promise not to break-up Iraq. I think things would be much better today if they would have broken Iraq into three pieces (Kurd/ Shiite/ Sunni).

[h90]

pleeaase stop the Iraq/USA discussion, it is not thailand related and both sides stick to their opinion anyway.....

Longway,

If you are going to post at least try and make an effort to spell correctly what appears to be the only point you are trying to make.

Soic's post deserves better, don't you think?

The justification for intervention has been clouded by the red herring of WMD. Everyone knows it was simply a pretext but that shouldn't obscure the fact that whatever the reason, the Iraq war was, and remains, well intentioned. That the conduct of the occupation has been handled ineptly does not alter that fact. Admittedly, civil war is approaching but in truth that is simply an event which has been postponed from years ago and was inevitable.

[soic]

I'll again apologize for spouting off about the Anti-American sentiment. I just get tired of it sometimes. It's easy to become callous about it, but every now and then it's just a bit much. My tirade wasn't meant to justify our being in Iraq or not. As the big boys in the neighborhood I know that we are prime targets for every political rock people can get their hands on. People tend to forget the REAL motives of Americans, as a nation for the most part we're generous. We give money to virtually every nation in the world in some form or fashion. We fight and defend people that don't have any real ties to us. Yet everyone always tries to find a hidden motive. I truly wish sometimes that America would shut it's doors and turn off it's phones, just for a month.

I would like to get back to the discussions of the wonderful paradise of Thailand. Where I plan to be on my highly anticipated vacation in April. Personally I enjoy the Thai attitude and non-political ways. It's refreshing to be around a people that care more about their families and other's happiness than what's going on in a foreign land.

[h90]

wish you nice holidays in Thailand!

Not all Thai people are non-political. My wife only speaks about politics......

I'll again apologize for spouting off about the Anti-American sentiment. I just get tired of it sometimes. It's easy to become callous about it, but every now and then it's just a bit much. My tirade wasn't meant to justify our being in Iraq or not. As the big boys in the neighborhood I know that we are prime targets for every political rock people can get their hands on. People tend to forget the REAL motives of Americans, as a nation for the most part we're generous. We give money to virtually every nation in the world in some form or fashion. We fight and defend people that don't have any real ties to us. Yet everyone always tries to find a hidden motive. I truly wish sometimes that America would shut it's doors and turn off it's phones, just for a month.

I would like to get back to the discussions of the wonderful paradise of Thailand. Where I plan to be on my highly anticipated vacation in April. Personally I enjoy the Thai attitude and non-political ways. It's refreshing to be around a people that care more about their families and other's happiness than what's going on in a foreign land.

[alaina]

can you please tell me when Israel constituted part of the nation is the united states ??

Always really, but gradually more so after the 1967 war. They are virtually one and the same entity now pushing the lie that "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East". That's their favourite.

mate you get used to it!

I am Austrian: if Israel try to kill a Palaestine leader, but blow up the wrong house and 20 inocent people are dead and you tell: that is maybe not 100 % OK, you get called Nazi.

and when you look history, iran did never attacke anyone. Israel has a hugh list. USA is the only country which used nuclear weapons.......

But if you don't find anything thailand related the treat get closed, anything critic about USA is a hugh problem, for the mods...

slightly of track but as you mentioned bush , with reference to bushes recent speech about iran ... it went something like this ...

"well we know they are bad guys (iran) .. and they got the nukes ... and they threatened isreal, and isreal they are our buddies, so this is obviously a real threat to national security"

ok then george can you please tell me when Israel constituted part of the nation is the united states ?? alternatively maybe some of tv member can explain this rational to me

And how is this on-topic? Got any other racist crap you'd care to debate under the guise of a (factless) political discussion?

[juggler]

OK back to topic and enough of this nastiness guys

now if my wife told me to use red rizzla to smoke instead of the thinner blue or grey paper - she would be very uneducated IMHO, and the Thai paper that all burns in one go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!well thats just madness

but at least it's nice to see some humor in a thread thats gone well off the beaten track..................got to tell you that made me laugh

[soic]

No more political talk from here, but in answer to the Israeli propaganda... It's easy. We always stick up for the little guy. If we weren't there to defend them, they'd have been wiped out a long time ago. They are an ally in the Mid-East, and thank God we now have more than one. And it's unfair to link us with Palestinian bashing, we have given them money until Hamas took over. We have even sponsored every peace accord they've ever tried. We've admonished both sides from time to time. People can hate people for any reason they choose... that's for their individual conscience. It's easy to pick apart a process, it's harder to come up with a plausible solution. Instead of slamming a nation, propose a solution that doesn't involve the annihilation of one or the other. Tell somebody the perfect way to solve the situation that is fair to all, and that EVERYONE in the world would be happy with. Arm chair diplomats, Monday morning quarterbacks and loving tree huggers that would exterminate every human to save a sloop nosed wingbat in Tim-buck-too! The world is full of those people... We can all agree to disagree. Opinions are like buttholes, we all have one and more the most part no-one wants to see/hear each others. LOL

Let's get back to happy talk and talk of our fondness of the tropical paradise of Thailand.

[wolf5370]

A lot has been said on the Thai education system (perhaps not enough Seonai), I was wondering how the western (dare I say Farang) subject teachers here feel with the Thai curriculum (by subject teachers I mean, that teach a subject, not English as a foreign language and have Western teaching experience). Is it frustrating? Do you try to teach outside of the 'by rote' norm? If so, does it work? Is the 'by rote' norm a reality still today? Or is it only a reality in the sticks?

807 pages of Yank bashing, Yank defending and cig paper ads ago I put forward the above - Just wondered if there are and subject teacher that would care to comment NOW WE ARE BACK ON TOPIC (aren't we?)

[juggler]

Sorry but i carried on the old bollotics thread...........only writing this to keep it all on track and delete what i wrote. Sorry the more as i'm no teacher and so can't help you there

Edited March 16, 2006 by juggler

[Mobi]

I have just stumbled on this thread, and even though I have read a few pages, it will take me all night to cover all the posts. So excuse me if I am going over old ground, but at least I will be back on topic.

May I offer two personal experiences, without in any way being judgemental.

My current wife left went to school up-country and had to quit when she was 12 to become the food providor for a very large, very poor family. She has never returned or school or had any vocational training. She reads the daily Thai papers, and watches the TV news most days, and loves reading any Thai magazine she can find or buy. Her overall knowledge of the world and history is seriously lacking, but she is informed about what goes on out there, and has views of most significant world events. I won't pretend that I always agree with her views, and I suspect that her information sources aren't always accurate - but where in the world are they accurate? Nevertheless, she is living proof that there is no reason why Thais shouldn't be reasonably informed on world affairs if they really want to be.

My ex wife, although from a poor family, had an excellent education, which was finished off in Singapore. She has spent the last 23 years of her life in England, and is a fluent English speaker and reader. She has never shown any ineterest in world evnts, and has no views or opinions on anything except events that affect Thailand - where she no longer chooses to live. Some years ago when we visited Thailand, her brother, a Thamasat graduate and senior government civil servant, sought her views on the Iraq situation. She said she had no views, and asked me to discuss the matter with her brother.

I can't explain these dichotomies - only speculate. I suspect my ex -wife is nearer the norm to the typical Thai psyche, and the new wife is an exception. Maybe the latent detatchment from worldy matters is partly to blame for Thailand's demonstrably poor education system. Nobody sees the need to do anything about it.

[alaina]

A lot has been said on the Thai education system (perhaps not enough Seonai), I was wondering how the western (dare I say Farang) subject teachers here feel with the Thai curriculum (by subject teachers I mean, that teach a subject, not English as a foreign language and have Western teaching experience). Is it frustrating? Do you try to teach outside of the 'by rote' norm? If so, does it work? Is the 'by rote' norm a reality still today? Or is it only a reality in the sticks?

807 pages of Yank bashing, Yank defending and cig paper ads ago I put forward the above - Just wondered if there are and subject teacher that would care to comment NOW WE ARE BACK ON TOPIC (aren't we?)

I have taught in the US for three years (in three schools) and here for two (in three schools)

I have to say that schools can vary widely in both places. In both places, I have yet to see anybody going around checking if the curriculum is being followed. I have never known any teacher to follow one to the letter, and most curriculums are really partly political documents as well as educational ones. They serve the purpose of keeping things in a sequence and as a guide to what students were taught previously. The problem is that whenever people complain that "the kids aren't learning enough" or politicians have an agenda, irrelevant stuff gets added. There is no way that a teacher could cover either the US or Thai curriculum in a year and have the kids remember anything.

My personal favorite is in the Thai Health curriculum, it states something about teaching kids the proper gender roles and the importance of adhering to them. My best students in that school were tom and a budding katoey so I must not have taught it well. (I skipped it completely.)

I have taught from grades 5-12 and at that point how they were taught previously impacts how well they can pick up a Western system. If they were taught by rote, it can take nearly the whole year to break them of asking, "What should I memorize for the test?" and a few will not ever get out of it. So, yes, in Bangkok Thai and bilingual schools still do teach by rote. If students have had a Western or international school background it is often very similar to how kids back in the US would respond.

The biggest problems are getting the kids to ask questions when they don't understand and plagiarism. The first issue is usually solved by asking if they understand over and over again and praising those who say they don't. Plagiarism is so pervasive and accepted that it will have to start with Universities expelling students to trickle down to elementary and secondary ed. I just give out F's for now.

Many of Thailand's schools have a no-fail policy that the students knew about. The Ministry of Education has said that schools are no longer allowed to pass everybody if they don't earn it. Not sure that all the schools are following that (actually I am sure many are not) and even schools that are failing kids are still very hesitant to hold them back a grade. There's just no incentive for some kids to make an effort.

There are plenty more issues I have with both US and Thai educational systems, but I don't have all day

After all that all I really have to say is it really does depend on the quality of the teacher. I have met a few good Thai teachers, but many that teach by rote. Even a Western teaching degree does not necessarily mean someone is a good teacher either.

[juggler]

the new wife is an exception. Maybe the latent detatchment from worldy matters is partly to blame for Thailand's demonstrably poor education system. Nobody sees the need to do anything about it.

I believe self motivation can teach a lot, but so can compulsory (free) schooling till the age of 16, with a 'well-fair' state to help famillies who can't support their own kids.......dream on ....yes...I know (I can say this even though i'm no teacher). If children/teenagers have to work when they should be at school or want to be.........the madness continues (probably as intended)

[opothai]

The wife, 28 year old university computer graduate, living in BKK and working for a multi-national, is telling me she does not know about the war in Iraq, or the war on terror for that matter.

Is this really possible ?

One more thing, I think this is a fine example of why the "can't fail" system in Thai university should be changed.

we brought our now 10 year old daughter to england 7 months ago, and she is top of her class at mathematics already, the reason for this is she has enthusiasm and serious determination to learn and does everything in her power to learn more and more, when in thailand she did not have access to learn more and more only at the very slow pace of her school.

already she talks about going back to thailand to teach as the children deserve better and it is not fair that the children in thailand do not have that opportunity. [ great to be young ]

she has shown me given the opportunity how intelligent the thais can be, she now also tries to teach the wife what she learns at school and sometimes i can see the wife feeling not to good about not knowing how to solve mathematical problems, and i try to explain to wiffy that it is not her fault the schooling system in rural thailand is a disgrace.

to summise i would say from what i have seen happen it has changed my opinion of thais being a wee bit negligent on the educational front, thais are far from ignorent when given a chance to learn, any body else have children now learning in a foregn country and doing well and enjoying the experience.

Two points of contention-

The Thailand education system is not a disgrace! Considering the resources at the countries disposal and the time when industrial development began to occur - Thailand can be fairly proud of its educational achievements! The literacy rate stands at 95% which compares pretty favourably with many developed nations.

Until your daughters academic success did you honestly not realise Thais could be intelligent too? Perhaps this speaks volumes about your own imperfect ethnocentric educational upbringing!

well my friend, i will still say that the thai education system in RURAL thailand is a disgrace.

you will note i hope, that i have exagerated rural.

my daughter has told me what goes on in the rural school, conform conform do not question do not ask for answers and explanations, clean up after the teachers, need i go on.

i did not for one moment state thais could not be intelligent, this is you changing the words to suit your argument,

i did state that they were a wee bit lacking on the educational front, this is because of the schooling system.

now i can not change your attitude that all is well with the schooling in rural thailand but i certainly have the right to question.

and as for my imperfections, thier are to many to list one of them being i do not understand ethnocentric educational upbringing.

i went to grammer skool not ethnocentric school

Edited March 16, 2006 by opothai

[Mobi]

i went to grammer skool not ethnocentric school

You might have been to one without knowing it.

ETHNOCENTRIC: Belief in the superiority of one's own cultural group or society and corresponding dislike or misunderstanding of other such groups.

I am starting an experiment. My 8 year old step son is being moved from an up country school, to a better one in Pattaya. He came down last week for an assessment test. He scored 15% and will have to stay in his current grade for another year.

I reckon he's pretty smart, and it was the school to blame for his poor results.

The new school is nothing special, just a better public school. (The wife refuses to put him in a private school - says he will feel too emabarrased at his poor academic showing)

I will report back in a year's time, but I'm quietly confident that with home encouragement and better teaching, he will come on a storm.

By the way, its not just me and the wife, all the locals say that the rural school is a terrible disgrace.

[opothai]

i went to grammer skool not ethnocentric school

You might have been to one without knowing it.

ETHNOCENTRIC: Belief in the superiority of one's own cultural group or society and corresponding dislike or misunderstanding of other such groups.

I am starting an experiment. My 8 year old step son is being moved from an up country school, to a better one in Pattaya. He came down last week for an assessment test. He scored 15% and will have to stay in his current grade for another year.

I reckon he's pretty smart, and it was the school to blame for his poor results.

The new school is nothing special, just a better public school. (The wife refuses to put him in a private school - says he will feel too emabarrased at his poor academic showing)

I will report back in a year's time, but I'm quietly confident that with home encouragement and better teaching, he will come on a storm.

By the way, its not just me and the wife, all the locals say that the rural school is a terrible disgrace.

thx for the translation

well i married a thai adopted the daughter and want to retire in thailand , so i hope ethnocentric would not apply to myself.

i'm sure you will see a marked improvement very soon, and i wish the lad all the best in his future developement, all one can hope for is to give the child an opportunity and watch hem flourish.

[wolf5370]

[in reply to Pearl's post above - did not want to quote here due to length]

Pearl,

do you think the point about school non-fail policy could be mitigated with an independant/centralised examining board. I know this is not likely to happen as it will highlight the differences between the educational standard of different areas (postcode lottery), but just as a though experiment.

If the kids also had to sit under exam conditions with an independant moderator rather than a teacher (maybe chosen at random to stop under-the-table stuff) and if passes were biased towards exam result rather than termwork, then plagiarism could also be combated.

I can understand (reluctantly) that the Government, the school and even, perhaps, parents are happy with the status-quo, given that their kids look good if they have not actually been given the opportunity to be so. Are business owners really still that wrapped up in old-school-tie (Old-Sino-Thai-Surname) to allow their companies to fester on under-educated know-nothings because they can't tell the difference between candidates as they all pass!

[typos fix: can't type for toffee!]

Edited March 16, 2006 by wolf5370

[robitusson]

can you please tell me when Israel constituted part of the nation is the united states ??

Always really, but gradually more so after the 1967 war. They are virtually one and the same entity now pushing the lie that "Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East". That's their favourite.

mate you get used to it!

I am Austrian: if Israel try to kill a Palaestine leader, but blow up the wrong house and 20 inocent people are dead and you tell: that is maybe not 100 % OK, you get called Nazi.

and when you look history, iran did never attacke anyone. Israel has a hugh list. USA is the only country which used nuclear weapons.......

But if you don't find anything thailand related the treat get closed, anything critic about USA is a hugh problem, for the mods...

slightly of track but as you mentioned bush , with reference to bushes recent speech about iran ... it went something like this ...

"well we know they are bad guys (iran) .. and they got the nukes ... and they threatened isreal, and isreal they are our buddies, so this is obviously a real threat to national security"

ok then george can you please tell me when Israel constituted part of the nation is the united states ?? alternatively maybe some of tv member can explain this rational to me

And how is this on-topic? Got any other racist crap you'd care to debate under the guise of a (factless) political discussion?

Got any other racist crap? None. Got some legitimate arguement that might be a bit tricky for you and some differing opinions too. How is your post on-topic anyway?