Farang Handy Men

[ezzra]

You'd think that if you contact a farang handy man to come and do some repairs at your residence

they will honor their words and come, but no, several calls, texts and new appointments later

with no better results and no show, so Ron and Matthew, I'm very disappointed with your work

ethic,s and from now on I will never again poke fun at the expense of the Thai handy men.

[breadbin]

Pity in not living in Thai.

Plumber and maintenance in UK.

100% reliable too

[RKASA]

Maybe they are waiting on their work permits.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I used to think that Thailand had everything, but it's true I was forgetting about farang cowboy tradesmen. Just be thankful that immigration here wont give them work permits for this sort of job.

[lemonjelly]

I used to think that Thailand had everything, but it's true I was forgetting about farang cowboy tradesmen. Just be thankful that immigration here wont give them work permits for this sort of job.

Yes, why bother when you can get a Thai cowboy to do / partially do / not do / make you wish he'd never done,.... a job for you.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

I think I'd rather pay a cheap Thai cowboy than an expensive farang one to do the same crappy job.

[transam]

Well yes, no matter where folk come from, everywhere has sh.... heads. Really annoys me.

[Ackybang]

This seems a bit one sided, and is a post that says next to nothing, without anything to back it up being taken at face value. Quite strange naming and shaming on a faceless forum.

This works both ways. I am not a professional builder by any stretch of the imagination, but I am quite handy, and somethings I have a lot of experience in, and can do quite competently, even very well.

I would never take on a job that I wasn't sure I could do extremely well - and I always guarantee my workmanship. I have taken on jobs for 'Farangs' here, and as much as they moan about the workmanship they've experienced using Thais, and the amount of times they've had to fix recurring faults, or snag shoddy work - they still want to pay you bugger all, generally, and expect top level work, instead of paying what the job's worth, (which in real terms is a small fraction of what they would pay on their home turf) and having no headaches / false economy syndrome after.

The last job I did was for a guy who heard about me through word of mouth, and I ended up going round, consulting for him, offering advice two or three times, sourcing prices for equipment, etc. (my time and money). Now I couldn't give the guy a firm timeframe for completion for the job, as I'm not an experienced contractor as such - big job, unforseen problems, etc, and I don't cut corners - I was doing the guy a favour because he was a friend of a friend..

I told the guy honestly, and said the fairest way to charge would be a daily rate for my labour - which for me is an 8 hour solid days work, not including lunch hour, short breaks, etc. All the equipment expenditure I give receipts for, from the suppliers - I don't make commissions on such things, but my time is on the clock, and my fuel must be paid for. I only asked for wages on completion of the job. Having agreed a rate, and shaking on it, I undertook the work - rolled around in shit and got cut to shreds / ruined a few sets of clothing under this rich prick's house for days, ripping out old pipe work, and putting in a whole new bespoke automatic water system for the guy, because the old system was incorrectly installed, and completely inadequate. So, of course when the job was finished properly, checked / guaranteed - no thanks, tip, bottle of beer (which I don't expect or care about really) - the guy didn't want to pay the agreed rate, and wanted a discount. In the end, to get my money, and because 'he knew this and that person', and I was working in a grey area, I had to cede to the donkey.

This was not the first time I've experienced this attitude here, from Westerners and Thais, whilst undertaking work for them, and doing a good, honest job - a job that's done once. I'm usually up for a haggle, same as the next man, but some people want to haggle so much, it's just not worth doing the work atall, with all the headaches and pressure involved. People tend to think you can get away with paying bugger all here, or squeeze and command sizeable discounts on everything (especially, and annoyingly after the job's finished), and then wonder why the work is half arsed, or the builders don't turn up, or they believe in these magical unbelievably cheap urban myth unworkable figures for you to want to take a job and bring in a team of labourers too, and heaven forbid you might want to make a profit and cover your costs also - when they themselves have no experience of changing a lightbulb, and wouldn't get out of bed for less than a fortune.

Having said this, I have met the odd few, who haven't quibbled, and have paid the money, and appreciated my work - but these have been outweighed by the number of cowboy customers - these are the people that tipped the balance for me.

I've never taken on work for anyone since those days. I'd rather choose to help a friend, or someone for free than try and squeeze money out of them honestly, along with the deceit and ill feeling that usually accompanies it. This is perhaps synonymous with the work ethic here - guys that don't turn up have probably already been ripped by someone, or many before - or have heard you're a c**t (word travels fast in building circles).

On the flip side, the average Westerners (obviously not everyone) that come here for a lifestyle, after earning their dough or experiencing huge comparative wages already, and are good for a full days hard physical work for less than their expectations, are few and far between..

I'd be interested to know how much these handy men charge for their labour, and how much anyone thinks they should, or would expect to pay a farang here, for a 'good', real job of work. Most of the farangs I know working here, who are real, qualified professionals, charge around 3,000 baht a day for their labour, on average.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Ackybang

[cheeryble]

- the guy didn't want to pay the agreed rate, and wanted a discount. In the end, to get my money, and because 'he knew this and that person', and I was working in a grey area, I had to cede to the donkey.

The guy was a moron.

A smart person is happy to pay a little more.

It means corners don't get cut, and you tend to come first......not to mention everyone is happy.

[topt]

- the guy didn't want to pay the agreed rate, and wanted a discount. In the end, to get my money, and because 'he knew this and that person', and I was working in a grey area, I had to cede to the donkey.

The guy was a moron.

A smart person is happy to pay a little more.

It means corners don't get cut, and you tend to come first......not to mention everyone is happy.

Agreed 100% - but what do you do when the tradesperson prices a job, you agree, and part of the way through they turn round and say "because I did not realise this or that etc" and ask for quite a big uplift.........

It is frustrating when they quoted the price in the first place and there was no haggling - and this has happened twice recently with Thai's. And before anyone says it no the spec for the job was not changed. If you refuse you wonder if they will continue/finish correctly, haggle and possibly the same. Fortunately in both instances the overall amounts were not great but I did feel pushed a bit into a corner.

[cheeryble]

Hi Topt

I have been involved in innumerable jobs large and small on both the ordering and the doing end.

I have found that......even for small works.....it is worth writing everything down and spending extra time up front clarifying detail.

It doesn't even need to be a contract, just clarify and write, and the time will be repaid saving a lot of hassle down the line.

Hope this helps.

[besth]

I think that the experience suffered by Ackybang, whilst unfair to him from the sound of it, although it wouldn't hurt to hear from the other party why he refused to pay the agreed costs, is not related to the OP message.

The OP is not complaining about pricing or quality of the work, just about repeatedly missed appointments by the contractors. Typical Thai, yes. Very often typical farang in farangland also. Perfect quality, perfect timing, perfect service at Thai prices is just impossible. You need to allow for at least one of those parameters to be changed.

[thaiwanderer]

This seems a bit one sided, and is a post that says next to nothing, without anything to back it up being taken at face value. Quite strange naming and shaming on a faceless forum.

This works both ways. I am not a professional builder by any stretch of the imagination, but I am quite handy, and somethings I have a lot of experience in, and can do quite competently, even very well.

I would never take on a job that I wasn't sure I could do extremely well - and I always guarantee my workmanship. I have taken on jobs for 'Farangs' here, and as much as they moan about the workmanship they've experienced using Thais, and the amount of times they've had to fix recurring faults, or snag shoddy work - they still want to pay you bugger all, generally, and expect top level work, instead of paying what the job's worth, (which in real terms is a small fraction of what they would pay on their home turf) and having no headaches / false economy syndrome after.

The last job I did was for a guy who heard about me through word of mouth, and I ended up going round, consulting for him, offering advice two or three times, sourcing prices for equipment, etc. (my time and money). Now I couldn't give the guy a firm timeframe for completion for the job, as I'm not an experienced contractor as such - big job, unforseen problems, etc, and I don't cut corners - I was doing the guy a favour because he was a friend of a friend..

I told the guy honestly, and said the fairest way to charge would be a daily rate for my labour - which for me is an 8 hour solid days work, not including lunch hour, short breaks, etc. All the equipment expenditure I give receipts for, from the suppliers - I don't make commissions on such things, but my time is on the clock, and my fuel must be paid for. I only asked for wages on completion of the job. Having agreed a rate, and shaking on it, I undertook the work - rolled around in shit and got cut to shreds / ruined a few sets of clothing under this rich prick's house for days, ripping out old pipe work, and putting in a whole new bespoke automatic water system for the guy, because the old system was incorrectly installed, and completely inadequate. So, of course when the job was finished properly, checked / guaranteed - no thanks, tip, bottle of beer (which I don't expect or care about really) - the guy didn't want to pay the agreed rate, and wanted a discount. In the end, to get my money, and because 'he knew this and that person', and I was working in a grey area, I had to cede to the donkey.

This was not the first time I've experienced this attitude here, from Westerners and Thais, whilst undertaking work for them, and doing a good, honest job - a job that's done once. I'm usually up for a haggle, same as the next man, but some people want to haggle so much, it's just not worth doing the work atall, with all the headaches and pressure involved. People tend to think you can get away with paying bugger all here, or squeeze and command sizeable discounts on everything (especially, and annoyingly after the job's finished), and then wonder why the work is half arsed, or the builders don't turn up, or they believe in these magical unbelievably cheap urban myth unworkable figures for you to want to take a job and bring in a team of labourers too, and heaven forbid you might want to make a profit and cover your costs also - when they themselves have no experience of changing a lightbulb, and wouldn't get out of bed for less than a fortune.

Having said this, I have met the odd few, who haven't quibbled, and have paid the money, and appreciated my work - but these have been outweighed by the number of cowboy customers - these are the people that tipped the balance for me.

I've never taken on work for anyone since those days. I'd rather choose to help a friend, or someone for free than try and squeeze money out of them honestly, along with the deceit and ill feeling that usually accompanies it. This is perhaps synonymous with the work ethic here - guys that don't turn up have probably already been ripped by someone, or many before - or have heard you're a c**t (word travels fast in building circles).

On the flip side, the average Westerners (obviously not everyone) that come here for a lifestyle, after earning their dough or experiencing huge comparative wages already, and are good for a full days hard physical work for less than their expectations, are few and far between..

I'd be interested to know how much these handy men charge for their labour, and how much anyone thinks they should, or would expect to pay a farang here, for a 'good', real job of work. Most of the farangs I know working here, who are real, qualified professionals, charge around 3,000 baht a day for their labour, on average.

strange post. an inexperienced non professional doing a favour wanting a day rate because can't tell what the job will involve.

really? how long is that piece of string?

anyhow, what's the going rate for an illegal who's a bit handy?

[Ackybang]

strange post. an inexperienced non professional doing a favour wanting a day rate because can't tell what the job will involve.

really? how long is that piece of string?

anyhow, what's the going rate for an illegal who's a bit handy?

Funny, I see nothing strange about my post, if you read and actually comprehended what I wrote. I'm a straight talker / doer, thaiwanderer. I'm not casting judgement on another, especially someone I've never met - and for sure I wouldn't be naming names on here, or anyother forum, to air a 'personal' grievance - merely giving an insight into a real subjective experiences of my own, pertaining to the topic at hand, to try and give a balancing view. Do you actually have anything real to say, by the way ?

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly - I'm not a professional contractor, as in I don't take on, nor need to take on jobs for a living - but I do have considerable experience in certain areas of work - plumbing / water systems, etc, amongst others - and I am quite able, if I believe I can do a particular job, (because if I don't believe I can do something to a very high standard, I will be quite honest, and say 'I can't do it', unlike most wingers) to do that job to a very high degree of proficiency. Do you follow me ? I'm experienced enough to have designed and built myself a fairly cracking house so far, with my own hands / labour.

So, I retired / took a career break a few Years ago , and shut my business down (not building related) - in my thirties, and finding myself at a loose end and rather bored, and of general good ethos - with plenty of time, money and mates experiencing and suffering piss poor standards of work from contractors - both Thai and Farang, snagged loads of work for them for free, and then got a rep as being able to do a decent job, which I believe is true. I actually did some jobs for immigration and police officials, regardless of my status - they certainly didn't seem to mind, or question it - I like to be able to represent, and restore peoples faith that some people can actually do what they say they're going to do properly. I'm not sure about the rules for Westerners to work in these sorts of trades here - like I said, I did 'favours' for people, primarily friends of friends, paid and unpaid, to keep myself busy. All I do know is, pertaining to my real work here, I had a fully legit VAT registered company, completely straight and accounted for - paid quite a few million out in tax over the Years, as well as respecting and providing a decent livelyhood to everyone of my employees, as well as respecting the fact that I am a guest here, at the end of the day.

I'm not a pro, but I believe I can do a better, more thorough job, and put out a higher quality of work than most of the mugs I've met over here, actually making a living at it - in the areas I'm competent in. It actually offends me to see people getting ripped like they do, especially if I know them. Not to say I haven't met some really qualified guys doing excellent work out here, because I have. So yes, when I take on a job for someone, I believe I'm doing them a favour - because firstly, I don't need the work, and second through to forthly, because the job will be done thoroughly, a lot cheaper than redoing / fixing the job numerous times, and honourably guaranteed. It's not about the dough - it's about taking pride in your work, and being honest with others, aswell as yourself. Where I'm from - a handshake and an ok is enough between stand up, straight people, and when I say I don't know how to charge a job rate - that's me being honest - and tell me, why shouldn't I charge for my time, if someone approaches me, and wants me to do the work for them ?

If I'm doing a job of work, however dirty or hard - I do it myself, without anyones help, and I'm not trying to mug anyone off, or take the piss - I do a proper job, and put in a full days work (do you understand that concept). Invariably, and in my own limited experience, ( I would ask any experienced contractors to comment on this (because I'm not)), when you do a job for someone, especially if you're snagging someone elses botch job, who abides by different definitions of standards and work ethics, you will run into unforseen problems, which can cost considerable time to work around - this I genuinely don't know how to cost for, before experiencing unforseen problems = it's something I can only address in real time. Not like this on new work, generally, building off plans from scratch - I'm not about to bullshit anyone, or try and squeeze more out of a job by being devious, unlike some. I think some guys over here, regardless of how much money they make, in time, and with infusion of Thai mentality (usually through a money hungry spouse), start to believe everything is cheap over here, and they can command ridiculous prices for everything, because they have money, and are therefore powerful, and to be respected, and feared, and everyone is desperate for cash. I think the guy I spoke of had his nagging (in broken English) and not willing to spread the wealth Thai wife to contend with and so when the job's finished, people actually forget the reason they wanted you there in the first place, and revert back to the mindset that they could have got the job done cheaper by a Thai labourer, and therefore expect you to drop your original price agreement. By the way - I charged that guy 5 quid an hour for my time - without any thought of the length of a piece of string - so yes, I was doing him a very big favour, or is that beyond the bounds of your comprehension ?

Any way man, succinctly - that's my story. I hope in some small way it would serve to explain my position, or sate your desire for belittlement of another, or perhaps help you to understand that you can actually learn to take people as you find them and trust some people in this life, or transcend your conditioning to either one of a healthier skepticism, predjudicial bent, or help you to differentiate between consequentialist, deontological and teleological precepts as a basis for moral disposition - not everyone is trying to turn everyone else over - and if you can't trust another, without even basing your rationale on a real physical interaction / assessment, then you quite clearly are reflecting the fact that you yourself cannot be trusted. Please do read my post again thoroughly, before you make comment again, and then perhaps come up with something more intelligent, or something that would lend to this discussion more positively. I'm sorry, Ron and Matthew who ? Seems like you must be avid frequenters of this site, and seems like yourselves and the OP has lost all sense of decorum. Seem's like others are being preemptively judged for your shortcomings, by those with the very same. <deleted> me, are we all human ?

Anyhow, never mind the going rate for 'illegals' (?) - what's the going rate for some faceless fornicator on Thaivisa to inevitably post some narcissistic, or bigoted brainless snide shit-kicking comment or another on every thread / topic, for want of something better to do, these days ?

Seems to be fuckall, by the looks of things - and as a complete antithesis, a very friendly rate indeed...

Edited April 9, 2013 by Ackybang

[thaiwanderer]

strange post. an inexperienced non professional doing a favour wanting a day rate because can't tell what the job will involve.

really? how long is that piece of string?

anyhow, what's the going rate for an illegal who's a bit handy?

Funny, I see nothing strange about my post, if you read and actually comprehended what I wrote. I'm a straight talker / doer, thaiwanderer. I'm not casting judgement on another, especially someone I've never met - and for sure I wouldn't be naming names on here, or anyother forum, to air a 'personal' grievance - merely giving an insight into a real subjective experiences of my own, pertaining to the topic at hand, to try and give a balancing view. Do you actually have anything real to say, by the way ?

Perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly - I'm not a professional contractor, as in I don't take on, nor need to take on jobs for a living - but I do have considerable experience in certain areas of work - plumbing / water systems, etc, amongst others - and I am quite able, if I believe I can do a particular job, (because if I don't believe I can do something to a very high standard, I will be quite honest, and say 'I can't do it', unlike most wingers) to do that job to a very high degree of proficiency. Do you follow me ? I'm experienced enough to have designed and built myself a fairly cracking house so far, with my own hands / labour.

So, I retired / took a career break a few Years ago , and shut my business down (not building related) - in my thirties, and finding myself at a loose end and rather bored, and of general good ethos - with plenty of time, money and mates experiencing and suffering piss poor standards of work from contractors - both Thai and Farang, snagged loads of work for them for free, and then got a rep as being able to do a decent job, which I believe is true. I actually did some jobs for immigration and police officials, regardless of my status - they certainly didn't seem to mind, or question it - I like to be able to represent, and restore peoples faith that some people can actually do what they say they're going to do properly. I'm not sure about the rules for Westerners to work in these sorts of trades here - like I said, I did 'favours' for people, primarily friends of friends, paid and unpaid, to keep myself busy. All I do know is, pertaining to my real work here, I had a fully legit VAT registered company, completely straight and accounted for - paid quite a few million out in tax over the Years, as well as respecting and providing a decent livelyhood to everyone of my employees, as well as respecting the fact that I am a guest here, at the end of the day.

I'm not a pro, but I believe I can do a better, more thorough job, and put out a higher quality of work than most of the mugs I've met over here, actually making a living at it - in the areas I'm competent in. It actually offends me to see people getting ripped like they do, especially if I know them. Not to say I haven't met some really qualified guys doing excellent work out here, because I have. So yes, when I take on a job for someone, I believe I'm doing them a favour - because firstly, I don't need the work, and second through to forthly, because the job will be done thoroughly, a lot cheaper than redoing / fixing the job numerous times, and honourably guaranteed. It's not about the dough - it's about taking pride in your work, and being honest with others, aswell as yourself. Where I'm from - a handshake and an ok is enough between stand up, straight people, and when I say I don't know how to charge a job rate - that's me being honest - and tell me, why shouldn't I charge for my time, if someone approaches me, and wants me to do the work for them ?

If I'm doing a job of work, however dirty or hard - I do it myself, without anyones help, and I'm not trying to mug anyone off, or take the piss - I do a proper job, and put in a full days work (do you understand that concept). Invariably, and in my own limited experience, ( I would ask any experienced contractors to comment on this (because I'm not)), when you do a job for someone, especially if you're snagging someone elses botch job, who abides by different definitions of standards and work ethics, you will run into unforseen problems, which can cost considerable time to work around - this I genuinely don't know how to cost for, before experiencing unforseen problems = it's something I can only address in real time. Not like this on new work, generally, building off plans from scratch - I'm not about to bullshit anyone, or try and squeeze more out of a job by being devious, unlike some. I think some guys over here, regardless of how much money they make, in time, and with infusion of Thai mentality (usually through a money hungry spouse), start to believe everything is cheap over here, and they can command ridiculous prices for everything, because they have money, and are therefore powerful, and to be respected, and feared, and everyone is desperate for cash. I think the guy I spoke of had his nagging (in broken English) and not willing to spread the wealth Thai wife to contend with and so when the job's finished, people actually forget the reason they wanted you there in the first place, and revert back to the mindset that they could have got the job done cheaper by a Thai labourer, and therefore expect you to drop your original price agreement. By the way - I charged that guy 5 quid an hour for my time - without any thought of the length of a piece of string - so yes, I was doing him a very big favour, or is that beyond the bounds of your comprehension ?

Any way man, succinctly - that's my story. I hope in some small way it would serve to explain my position, or sate your desire for belittlement of another, or perhaps help you to understand that you can actually learn to take people as you find them and trust some people in this life, or transcend your conditioning to either one of a healthier skepticism, predjudicial bent, or help you to differentiate between consequentialist, deontological and teleological precepts as a basis for moral disposition - not everyone is trying to turn everyone else over - and if you can't trust another, without even basing your rationale on a real physical interaction / assessment, then you quite clearly are reflecting the fact that you yourself cannot be trusted. Please do read my post again thoroughly, before you make comment again, and then perhaps come up with something more intelligent, or something that would lend to this discussion more positively. I'm sorry, Ron and Matthew who ? Seems like you must be avid frequenters of this site, and seems like yourselves and the OP has lost all sense of decorum. Seem's like others are being preemptively judged for your shortcomings, by those with the very same. <deleted> me, are we all human ?

Anyhow, never mind the going rate for 'illegals' (?) - what's the going rate for some faceless fornicator on Thaivisa to inevitably post some narcissistic, or bigoted brainless snide shit-kicking comment or another on every thread / topic, for want of something better to do, these days ?

Seems to be fuckall, by the looks of things - and as a complete antithesis, a very friendly rate indeed...

how do you charge for your bitterness, by the word?