Enforcement Of Thai Debts On My Way Out?

[FunFon]

I'll chip in.

You owe a Thai 12 months of rent and you worrie about this money could be claimed when you exit the country?

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Ah my friend you're back! In your case I'll definitely want to make sure the party is in a juridiction where I'm sure you couldn't arrange for the men in white suits to come along

I do owe a bit more than that, it's an odd amount since I've been chipping away at the backlog for eight months by paying more than the nominal rent as agreed by the landlord, and haven't missed a payment in that time.

My worry is that apparently she can actually block my ability to leave the country - I don't think she would, am actually confident she knows she can trust me to pay it off as soon as I'm able to, and knows that I'll be much more able to once I'm home and able to make a better living than I can here. Plus she's always expressed a very caring concern for the welfare of my kids and in our conversations she's shown recognition of the importance of a good education, and in fact went to a college not far from where my mom lives and has expressed interest in visiting us there one day.

However, I'm not willing to take even a 1% chance on the issue and therefore have (so far for now) changed my mind about openly discussing my plans with her beforehand, and plan to notify her from overseas concurrently with a few months' additional payment, whatever I can spare without taking food out of my kids' mouth given the fact that it's likely to take a month or two for me to start earning enough income to be self-sufficient on food and utility bills, which would be my first priority there.

Clear enough?

Edited April 15, 2013 by FunFon

[Dancealot]

Good luck FF!

I dont hope for you your landlady is amongst the readers here.

[JLCrab]

Therefore have (so far for now) changed my mind about openly discussing my plans with her beforehand ..

That's the first quasi-rational thing you've said this entire topic. I might suggest raising from your support team a significant down-payment as well.

To file criminal charges, even if they might later be dropped, only takes a lawyer and/or a friend in the police so I would say the chance if even low would be better than 1%. Also, even if you were to exit the Kingdom, those charges would still be on the books/computer awaiting any return to the Kingdom on your part.

[FunFon]

Therefore have (so far for now) changed my mind about openly discussing my plans with her beforehand ..

That's the first quasi-rational thing you've said this entire topic. I might suggest raising from your support team a significant down-payment as well.

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I've been saying as much several times in the past half-dozen pages or so, perhaps you weren't paying such close attention (can't blame you though http--,,--//static.thaivisa.com/forum//public/style_emoticons/default/wai2.gif [/url]] )

Yes, as I said, a payment of 2-3 months should be within the agreed-upon budget, unless other costs blow out beyond what I've estimated.

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To file criminal charges, even if they might later be dropped, only takes a lawyer and/or a friend in the police so I would say the chance if even low would be better than 1%. Also, even if you were to exit the Kingdom, those charges would still be on the books/computer awaiting any return to the Kingdom on your part.

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My estimate (of 10%) is based on my knowledge of the strength of our relationship and the history of her behaviour so far. However everyone knows that "past performance is not an indicator of future results". . .

And again for you specifically JL, I appreciate your occasional sincerely constructive contributions to the thread as opposed to malevolent relish.

Edited April 15, 2013 by FunFon

[bostonboy]

To be honest, i don't think your story is that uncommon

I think there is many underwhelming guys in the real world that find Thailand, get attention from the ladies way more than they ever did at home, feel a bit more than just an ordinary guy and get addicted to the whole lifestyle. and most times, just feeling that extra sense of recognition when they walk into a store, bar, restaurant gives them a little ego boost

so instead of thinking rationally, they move to Thailand with not enough funding and as long as they can support their addiction( finally feeling special) than they don't think of the consequences

then once the shit hits the fan, they are relying on the people who stuck it out in the real world to bail them out

happens 1000's of times a year in Thailand

as for the OP, a lot of us make financial mistakes. I know i have not saved as much as i should have at 41yrs old but fortunately i have a well paying job and am not addicted to needing to feel special in Thailand, so i am fairly on track

but i think when you do get back to the west, you need to try and deal with your Thailand addiction( because you have it) and get it out of your system

once you do that, you can move on in the real world and give your kid's what they deserve

[FunFon]

To be honest, i don't think your story is that uncommon

I think there is many underwhelming guys in the real world that find Thailand, get attention from the ladies way more than they ever did at home, feel a bit more than just an ordinary guy and get addicted to the whole lifestyle. and most times, just feeling that extra sense of recognition when they walk into a store, bar, restaurant gives them a little ego boost

so instead of thinking rationally, they move to Thailand with not enough funding and as long as they can support their addiction( finally feeling special) than they don't think of the consequences

then once the shit hits the fan, they are relying on the people who stuck it out in the real world to bail them out

happens 1000's of times a year in Thailand

as for the OP, a lot of us make financial mistakes. I know i have not saved as much as i should have at 41yrs old but fortunately i have a well paying job and am not addicted to needing to feel special in Thailand, so i am fairly on track

but i think when you do get back to the west, you need to try and deal with your Thailand addiction( because you have it) and get it out of your system

once you do that, you can move on in the real world and give your kid's what they deserve

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Thanks, all true, except in my particular case "that special feeling" is a bit more specific and located much lower than the one your talking about.

Not sure if anything will cure my addiction other than the natural passage of time, but I do know that chocolate will be the very last one to go. . .

[AnotherOneAmerican]

To be honest, i don't think your story is that uncommon

I think there is many underwhelming guys in the real world that find Thailand, get attention from the ladies way more than they ever did at home, feel a bit more than just an ordinary guy and get addicted to the whole lifestyle. and most times, just feeling that extra sense of recognition when they walk into a store, bar, restaurant gives them a little ego boost

so instead of thinking rationally, they move to Thailand with not enough funding and as long as they can support their addiction( finally feeling special) than they don't think of the consequences

then once the shit hits the fan, they are relying on the people who stuck it out in the real world to bail them out

Interesting idea

Life of mediocrity and loneliness in the West Vs feeling special with beautiful young lovers in the East

Which life to choose?

Which is the rational choice?

[JLCrab]

FF - As per my occasional sincerely constructive contributions, please don't spread the word around too much -- it might ruin my reputation.

[NanLaew]

i,ve changed my mind about FUNFON you,ve just got to love him ,

he,s now giving out advise about loan sharks and how to beat them

i wish funfon was my bank manager ........ maybe NOT ....

On second thoughts, maybe he was. The former HBOS high-flyers are crashing all over.

[bostonboy]

To be honest, i don't think your story is that uncommon

I think there is many underwhelming guys in the real world that find Thailand, get attention from the ladies way more than they ever did at home, feel a bit more than just an ordinary guy and get addicted to the whole lifestyle. and most times, just feeling that extra sense of recognition when they walk into a store, bar, restaurant gives them a little ego boost

so instead of thinking rationally, they move to Thailand with not enough funding and as long as they can support their addiction( finally feeling special) than they don't think of the consequences

then once the shit hits the fan, they are relying on the people who stuck it out in the real world to bail them out

Interesting idea

Life of mediocrity and loneliness in the West Vs feeling special with beautiful young lovers in the East

Which life to choose?

Which is the rational choice?

by the way........i think the girls is only a small part of what i was referring to

it is the initial reason for most

but i think it is more the overall feeling of finally standing out that is the draw for a lot of guys that move to Thailand( not all)

[FritsSikkink]

Let us know when you're leaving. We'll organise a party at the airport.

Maybe we can ask the landlady to be the host.

[theblether]

Pure joke this thread see how dead the forum is at the moment not to many people posting at all, think the mods let it run just to keep the forum alive it's so obvious this is someone that had previously been baned and it's run to 10 pages of pure bs

Well maybe the mods are leaving the thread running so that eventually the claims that the thread Op is a previously banned member can be supported by a name....surely not against forum rules to mention a posters/or banned posters name......otherwise the only people full of crap on the thread are those who are making wild unsupported claims......I seem to recall we had one offer suggesting our in and out canadian photographer fisherman.. ...is that the best you guys can come up with......put up or shut up guys........and let the thread roll

Pay attention......I've named him already.

[473geo]

I must have missed that Blether all I can find is your statement...."everybody should know who he is already"

[iamariva1957]

The correct spelling for "narks" is Narcs... with a 'C'.

[Thongkorn]

Maybe Thailand will pay to see you go,

[iamariva1957]

Not personal experience but there was the recent case of the gay couple and the landlord that forced them to stay here for 4 years,during appeal after appeal over some allegedly broken furniture.

I think the reality here is you have to put yourself in your landlady's shoes and ask how you'd feel if a tenant owing 12 months rent told you that they were off to their home country...but they promised they'd pay you back some time in the unspecified future?

The road to hell is paved with good intentions and I think your best bet (and you must know this) is just to disappear in the middle of the night with whatever you can carry.Otherwise you may find that the smiles disappear very quickly and you may find yourself in a whole heap of trouble!

If you're planning to pay off the landlady anyway what difference does it make how you leave?Do yourself a favour and do it extremely covertly,anything else would just be foolish and naive in the extreme!

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The problem is she's good friends with all the neighbors, so I think the best I can do is get the amount of stuff out I'm heading home with without attracting their attention.

The rest is a very solid moving lorry's worth of stuff, more than you could pack into three regular song taews.

So if I start moving all that stuff out without having discussed the issue with her she'll obviously think I'm trying to do a real runner on her and make it more likely that she'll take that kind of drastic action.

Basically my plan is to do as you say but contact her before she knows what's going on, let her know of my intentions, and then if she's going to try to take drastic action anyway - which as I said I honestly think is very unlikely, as evidenced by the fact that she's cut me that kind of slack - nearly 14 months at this point over the last three years, never mentioning interest etc!

If she is going to try, I've basically already done the runner, but it will still take another few weeks to get one of my child's passports issued, have to transfer the ex-wife's visas etc, will be camping out at various family and friends couches for the time between vacating the house and actually being able to leave the country.

Hence my very specific key question as to specific practicalities . . .

If anyone can point to the thread about the gay couple, maybe that discusses the actual police/court/border mechanics of how they were prevented from leaving the country.

You are breaking the law here! This site should have pulled you long ago. Joke or not (as it has been suggested) what you are intending to do is worthy of jail time when you are arrested.

The simple fact of the matter is that all your landlady has to do is report you.... or for that matter... any of us or those that know you and your situation tho the police and the immagration epolel will be notified and a hold will be placed upon your passport or other travel documents. Do not look to your embassy for help in this matter. They are not in the habit of protecting orhelping people such as yourself escape. Your life is not in danger and nor are your childrens'.

Instead of spending the money as you certaianly are on everything except paying off your debts, use it to clear them! You are a 'Dead Beat'. You are not showing your children that you are responsible and so are not teaching them a valuable lesson. It is furthermore a shame that you actually think that they are part of your crap. Dragging them down with you is shameful.

Now I am sure there is more to all of this than you are reporting. I was not born yesterday. But again, you are breaking the law right now by making the claim that you will skip out with only a 'promise' of paying things back (like that would ever happen).

If reported, to answer you question, you will be held at the border or at Passport Control and remanded to a secure facility to await trial. Your children will be removed from you and sent to their mother (or to her family) and your rights to them will be removed pending the court's findings in your case. In short, you will serve jail time. Interest will be added to what you already owe, which if unpayable by you will simply add time to your time in jail. However, in the end restitution will be demanded and you will be held responsible for it. Your best bet is to come clean, turn yourself in, and explain your situation. No one here wants anything more than to get paid. So pay them! Yoru family will be able to. The Thai Baht is not than strong against the US Dollar or Euro.

Suck it up and face the music!

[JLCrab]

I would say that only the debtor - in this case the landlady - is in any position to file a criminal complaint in the matter above. She probably could do so at any time given the number of months in arrears.

To the rest, it is just hearsay

[FunFon]

Let us know when you're leaving. We'll organise a party at the airport.

Maybe we can ask the landlady to be the host.

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Yes, if the amount wagered on the truth of my postings is enough to cover the backlog, I'm sure she'd be happy to preside.

Otherwise I think I'll just send her a highlights video with my first payment from overseas.

[MrWorldwide]

The correct spelling for "narks" is Narcs... with a 'C'.

Thanks, but I fear we are fighting a losing battle on that score, Amigo.

[MrWorldwide]

_{This thread is like a train wreck, but at least train wrecks get cleared eventually - the OP still hasnt caught a taxi to the airport.}

[FunFon]

You are breaking the law here! This site should have pulled you long ago. Joke or not (as it has been suggested) what you are intending to do is worthy of jail time when you are arrested.

The simple fact of the matter is that all your landlady has to do is report you.... or for that matter... any of us or those that know you and your situation tho the police and the immagration epolel will be notified and a hold will be placed upon your passport or other travel documents. Do not look to your embassy for help in this matter. They are not in the habit of protecting orhelping people such as yourself escape. Your life is not in danger and nor are your childrens'.

Instead of spending the money as you certaianly are on everything except paying off your debts, use it to clear them! You are a 'Dead Beat'. You are not showing your children that you are responsible and so are not teaching them a valuable lesson. It is furthermore a shame that you actually think that they are part of your crap. Dragging them down with you is shameful.

Now I am sure there is more to all of this than you are reporting. I was not born yesterday. But again, you are breaking the law right now by making the claim that you will skip out with only a 'promise' of paying things back (like that would ever happen).

If reported, to answer you question, you will be held at the border or at Passport Control and remanded to a secure facility to await trial. Your children will be removed from you and sent to their mother (or to her family) and your rights to them will be removed pending the court's findings in your case. In short, you will serve jail time. Interest will be added to what you already owe, which if unpayable by you will simply add time to your time in jail. However, in the end restitution will be demanded and you will be held responsible for it. Your best bet is to come clean, turn yourself in, and explain your situation. No one here wants anything more than to get paid. So pay them! Yoru family will be able to. The Thai Baht is not than strong against the US Dollar or Euro.

Suck it up and face the music!

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Thanks for trying to help, but I believe I've already considered all the issues you've raised, weighed the various pro's and con's and am currently planning on sticking to my current plan of action, which is now very different from the very early message from this thread that you've quoted.

Note that these features of Thai "law", along with many others, are not considered in line with international standards, at least within most western liberal democracies that I'm familiar with.

And my embassy does apparently make loans at low interest to help people in my situation, but so far my understanding is only for things like the airfares, not debts. I will be investigating these issues when taking care of getting our travel documents in order.

Thanks again for your concern. . .

[JLCrab]

From the "My life would make a Great Book" department, from the screenplay for James L. Brooks' Broadcast News (Jane played by Holly Hunter):

Paul Moore: It must be nice to always believe you know better, to always think you're the smartest person in the room.

Jane Craig: No. It's awful.

As per the comment above that aspects of Thai law are not in line with international standards, that really doesn't make much difference if your are within the Kingdom. And you're welcome for my concern.

Edited April 15, 2013 by JLCrab

[FunFon]

As per the comment above that aspects of Thai law are not in line with international standards, that really doesn't make much difference if your are within the Kingdom.

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Well in my case it frees me to consider the issues from a pragmatic POV, similar to that of someone threatened with jailtime for defamation when they are telling the truth, or other examples of laws which are more strictly enforced even here on ThaiVisa to the point that I don't dare even name them.

And point well taken wrt my arrogance, a difficult character flaw to work on I admit.

[FunFon]

This thread is like a train wreck, but at least train wrecks get cleared eventually - the OP still hasnt caught a taxi to the airport.

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Current ETA is 5-8 weeks, so rather than holding your breath, feel free to simply not follow the thread anymore.

[JLCrab]

I think you will find under Section 330 of the Thai Penal Code that one can offer a defense to criminal defamation charges if (in the English version) one can PROVE the veracity of the statements in question. In a current case, the depositions of anonymous interviewees who will not be willing to offer evidence in court does not constitute PROOF even in their statements in the accusations of malfeasance are 'true'.

BTW I have noticed this one to read maybe as a prelude your imminent book release. Wilt was over 7 feet tall with various body parts presumably in proportion . What's to be your gimmick in attracting all the enthusiastic chicks?:

[taninthai]

What you gonna tell your kids when there older with regards to why they are forced to live on the breadline without their mum,will it go something like oh i left your mum becaus i prefered to pay to sleep with young girls rather than concentrate on your uobringing and education si this is the reaon we are where we are today kids,i honestly dint think your fit to be a father, you would be better getting your sorry ass out of here and let your kids have achance in life with out you dragging them down,if your going back to uk i have news for you, you aint gonnaa get a job even staking shelves in a supermarket so stop all the crap that your gonna pay your debts back you are on a sinkng ship up to your eyeballs in debt and not even have a decent carreer to crawl your way out of it.

As someone else already mentioned its because of people like you that i give ferangs a wide berth over here.

Sent from my GT-P7500 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FunFon]

My dear friend TaninThai,

I appreciate your concern for my kids and their future, and believe me they already are well aware of my addictions, they've been to hundreds of 12-step meetings and I'm sure one day will realise they wouldn't even be on this lovely planet if it weren't for that particular part of reality.

Somehow we all manage to muddle through don't we.

Jai yen yen nah? I don't think your getting all worked up is going to do anyone any good, least of all yourself.

Take care now,

Your friend in love,

FunFon

[FunFon]

I think you will find under Section 330 of the Thai Penal Code that one can offer a defense to criminal defamation charges if (in the English version) one can PROVE the veracity of the statements in question. In a current case, the depositions of anonymous interviewees who will not be willing to offer evidence in court does not constitute PROOF even in their statements in the accusations of malfeasance are 'true'.

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Yes my understanding is that the UK has similarly repressive rules as well, also used to benefit the wealthy elites at the expense of the public welfare.

BTW I have noticed this one to read maybe as a prelude your imminent book release. Wilt was over 7 feet tall with various body parts presumably in proportion . What's to be your gimmick in attracting all the enthusiastic chicks?

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I lost quite a few friends in 9/11, that cover illustration's a pretty wicked trigger in that context. . .

[JLCrab]

(Rules that are) also used to benefit the wealthy elites at the expense of the public welfare.

Great -- a con man with a heart for the underdogs.

[FunFon]

(Rules that are) also used to benefit the wealthy elites at the expense of the public welfare.

Great -- a con man with a heart for the underdogs.

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Ah back in character, I was getting uncomfortable there, won't bother addressing that unfair slur.

But do you really feel the law should give preferential treatment to the most powerful in society rather than protecting the public interest? Really?