Loan Sharks

[FunFon]

And my understanding is that there is no mechanism for them to actually take possession legally of the collateral since the original contracts are technically illegal anyway.

Holding land titles is really just a psychological ploy, the landowner can simply go to the land office and get replacement documents issued.

Of course the real threat is public humiliation and possible violence, so it's a moot point most of the time, but just sayin'

[Morden]

And my understanding is that there is no mechanism for them to actually take possession legally of the collateral since the original contracts are technically illegal anyway.

Holding land titles is really just a psychological ploy, the landowner can simply go to the land office and get replacement documents issued.

Of course the real threat is public humiliation and possible violence, so it's a moot point most of the time, but just sayin'

Not if it's done properly.

The loan agreement can be lodged at the Land Office so that no request for a duplicate can hide the existence of the loan. The lender will transfer ownership of the land to himself at the time the loan is registered. If it becomes necessary to take the land. the lender merely goes to the Land Office and has the register of the loan removed. If the interest rate is more than 2% per month, it isn't shown on the loan contract.

If it's done that way, the loan contract is legal and has the blessing of the Land Office.

[jcnbkk]

DLock, on 12 Apr 2013 - 15:59, said:

5% per month is not unusual.

Extortionate, but not unusual.

Don't get involved. This is very normal for Thai's...and don't even consider paying it back on her behalf.

Pay it back on her behalf if you want - why not?

We only know a fraction of the story, so saying pay it off or not pay it off is irrelevant.

The OP has disappeared so I guess we will never know.

But giving Thai's the easy way out is like giving them approval to do it again. They don't learn.

"But giving Thai's the easy way out is like giving them approval to do it again. They don't learn." That's not just a Thai thing, it's human nature. Simplified, it's the concept of easy come, easy go..

[homeownership]

If it was my girlfriend and I cared about her, then I would clear the debt on two conditions, that she marries you and has to do everything you say, including no longer borrow from loan sharks.

Thats would be a good deal around me thinks.

[ozyjon]

5% per month is not unusual.

Extortionate, but not unusual.

Don't get involved. This is very normal for Thai's...and don't even consider paying it back on her behalf.

This happened to a friend of mine, he got emotional, felt sorry for this girl he met, paid the money she owed to some loan shark only to find out later from a neighbor that there was no loan just a scam to get the money from him and the girl split the money with her loan shark who was really her uncle, believe it or not?

[puukao]

Is there ever going to be a thread, "I actually received 100k from my Thai girlfriend."

or

"Her parents gave me money.....then I went into shock and had a heart attack."

I guess that isn't in their culture.

[kriswillems]

Is there ever going to be a thread, "I actually received 100k from my Thai girlfriend."

or

"Her parents gave me money.....then I went into shock and had a heart attack."

I guess that isn't in their culture.

You never hear the good stories. For Thais of the upper class and middle class is quiet common to get gifts from their parents (sometimes even a house worth millions). If you or I would be the receiver of such a gift we would probably not post that on Thaivisa - complaining is so much easier.

[meatboy]

Issan where I live is 10% a month 10,000 loan, 1000 baht interest alone just to keep the car, bike, land or whatever.

I lent my ex BIL 50,000 baht on a loan because he was working his backside off and paying most back for interest. He paid me back and gave me an extra payment of 5000 baht as way of thanks, oh and a crate of beer.

Thais are not ALL the same, like you or I, why do people on forums or people I class as friends believe they are only after money?. The percentage of Thai's that are money hungry is a lot but not "ALL".

She maybe telling the truth but statistically speaking she maybe talking crap, only you will know, good luck.

i paid off an amount to save my b.i.l.being shot and he was only a guarantor.they will never write a loan off as there's always someone ready to buy it they are the one's to be feared.

[FunFon]

Not if it's done properly.

The loan agreement can be lodged at the Land Office so that no request for a duplicate can hide the existence of the loan. The lender will transfer ownership of the land to himself at the time the loan is registered. If it becomes necessary to take the land. the lender merely goes to the Land Office and has the register of the loan removed. If the interest rate is more than 2% per month, it isn't shown on the loan contract.

If it's done that way, the loan contract is legal and has the blessing of the Land Office.

-

I would assume the low-end true loan shark obviously-to-everyone-illegal players in the business wouldn't be able to operate this way.

And if the debtor could prove they'd paid off everything in full at the nominal interest rate specified in the contract, presumably the land ownership would then revert back to them and the lender wouldn't have any legal recourse for their illegal sub-rosa terms.

In any case I reckon this tangent is a moot point for 99.99% of such transactions in the kingdom, usually doesn't operate this way.

[FunFon]

Is there ever going to be a thread, "I actually received 100k from my Thai girlfriend."

or

"Her parents gave me money.....then I went into shock and had a heart attack."

I guess that isn't in their culture.

-

The parents of my ex returned 100% of the sin sot after the wedding, and this hadn't been discussed beforehand, total surprise to me.

And their gifts in kind have come pretty close to totally more than that over the years since our divorce, I reckon just the bags of rice have totalled well over 100K, they've covered all expenses for the kids going to visit them including actually driving the twelve hours up to Bangkok and back on dozens of occasions.

And I believe their constant shaming of their daughter for leaving me and the kids is one of the factors leading her to return to accompany us on our exodus home now. . .

So yes, plenty of wonderful people among the farang in-laws, I'm sure the (unfortunately true) horror stories dominate for the same reasons that's what you see in the mainstream news media.

[Morden]

Not if it's done properly.

The loan agreement can be lodged at the Land Office so that no request for a duplicate can hide the existence of the loan. The lender will transfer ownership of the land to himself at the time the loan is registered. If it becomes necessary to take the land. the lender merely goes to the Land Office and has the register of the loan removed. If the interest rate is more than 2% per month, it isn't shown on the loan contract.

If it's done that way, the loan contract is legal and has the blessing of the Land Office.

-

I would assume the low-end true loan shark obviously-to-everyone-illegal players in the business wouldn't be able to operate this way.

And if the debtor could prove they'd paid off everything in full at the nominal interest rate specified in the contract, presumably the land ownership would then revert back to them and the lender wouldn't have any legal recourse for their illegal sub-rosa terms.

In any case I reckon this tangent is a moot point for 99.99% of such transactions in the kingdom, usually doesn't operate this way.

The 'low-end' lenders don't trouble themselves with collateral or legality.

At the other level, when the loan is paid off, lender and borrower go to the Land Office to cancel the registration of the loan and transfer ownership of the land back to the borrower. If the lender doesn't do that, Court action would follow and he would lose his credibility in the community very quickly.

99.9%? Where does that proportion come from?

[FunFon]

Morden, on 15 Apr 2013 - 09:12, said:

99.9%? Where does that proportion come from?

-

The proportion of informal lending transactions that involved registration of the loan at the land office.

My WAG, IOW out of my arse.

[DRONGOH]

I ask her how she could accept such an agreement and she gets all
quite.

If you haven't got it yet, you NEVER will.

There are also "fake interest sharks" here.

[Morden]

Morden, on 15 Apr 2013 - 09:12, said:

99.9%? Where does that proportion come from?

-

The proportion of informal lending transactions that involved registration of the loan at the land office.

My WAG, IOW out of my arse.

Informal transactions aren't registered.

I'm curious enough to ask you for a link to your source of that information.

[FunFon]

Morden, on 15 Apr 2013 - 09:20, said:

FunFon, on 15 Apr 2013 - 09:16, said:

Morden, on 15 Apr 2013 - 09:12, said:

Morden, on 15 Apr 2013 - 09:12, said:

99.9%? Where does that proportion come from?

-

The proportion of informal lending transactions that involved registration of the loan at the land office.

My WAG, IOW out of my arse.

Informal transactions aren't registered.

I'm curious enough to ask you for a link to your source of that information.

-

http://www.acronymfinder.com/Wild-Ass-Guess-%28WAG%29.html

-

http://bit.ly/XBdMZF

[FunFon]

Just a bit of fun Morden, don't take offense please, I did cite my "sources" previously

[Morden]

Just a bit of fun Morden, don't take offense please, I did cite my "sources" previously

No problem.

I am genuinely curious about this market. Your WAG is possibly accurate enough. The bikers are into small loans to people with no valuable assets. The need to borrow THB10,000 paints the picture. That must swing the proportion of the total their way, people with assets being less numerous.

We see several bikers turn up daily to the food stalls across the road from my wife's restaurant. The borrowers aren't happy to see them. One day, an old lady there couldn't pay. A call was made and the lender turned up in an old BMW and issued threats. By next morning, the old lady had disappeared. That part of the private lending market is nasty.

[boone57]

If she borrowed the money and agreed to the interest, what's the big deal? She should make good on the debt. If she is your GF and not just another sausage-casing why not just square the debt and be done with it?

I just got this fantastic idea! You said 60,000B ($2000) is no big deal to you. Well it is to me and it would really help me out of a bind. You would be a hero in our family forever and many many thanks in advance. I don't even want her to know I posted about this so I am giving you my bank info Daniel Tyler, acc # 980-6-57204-1 Krung Thai Bank. Man your the greatest, thank the lord for big fish.

Sincerely

Daniel

If you were not the OP, this would be a silly post.

20% is indeed the going rate. She's safe because (her 5%) is not the weekly interest.

The main goal for her is put B60K on the table in 1 visit. Shake hands, smile and walk away.

If she was my GF i would do that for her. Despite the dangers involved.

1 of my terms for helping her would be for her never to borrow or gamble again.....

Good luck Mr. Boone..

Thank you for the intelligent reply. The lender is a woman and apparently after four years she is demanding payment in full. Supposedly there is a contract and I am not sure if my GF house is colladeral or not. I do not want to ask right now, she well bring it up soon enough. I would not pay the lender personally. What might the posible dangers be? I am here legally. And what does OP stand for?

Thank you.

[epicstuff]

No shark would loan that amount, unsecured.

Correct.

This amount is probably on a land title (maybe 50% of the value) or a car...and the Loanshark is holding the Title or Bluebook.

She just needed the loan quickly, probably because she was getting squeezed by a gambling debt.

Oh, how I wish I was a Newbie again. Life was much simpler then.

wrong.. I've frequently come across those kind of loans unsecured. maybe need a referal from someone, without if being a new borrower, often a passport is held( thats the case for Filipeanos borrowing anyway). 10% / month seems to be the going rate around here for Thais or Filipeanos still pretty steep. I lent my GF 50K to get out of dept, but the 1st time some family member squealed about needing more money she borrowed again and got straight back into dept.. her problem now.......

[Dancealot]

If she borrowed the money and agreed to the interest, what's the big deal? She should make good on the debt. If she is your GF and not just another sausage-casing why not just square the debt and be done with it?

I just got this fantastic idea! You said 60,000B ($2000) is no big deal to you. Well it is to me and it would really help me out of a bind. You would be a hero in our family forever and many many thanks in advance. I don't even want her to know I posted about this so I am giving you my bank info Daniel Tyler, acc # 980-6-57204-1 Krung Thai Bank. Man your the greatest, thank the lord for big fish.

Sincerely

Daniel

If you were not the OP, this would be a silly post.

20% is indeed the going rate. She's safe because (her 5%) is not the weekly interest.

The main goal for her is put B60K on the table in 1 visit. Shake hands, smile and walk away.

If she was my GF i would do that for her. Despite the dangers involved.

1 of my terms for helping her would be for her never to borrow or gamble again.....

Good luck Mr. Boone..

Thank you for the intelligent reply. The lender is a woman and apparently after four years she is demanding payment in full. Supposedly there is a contract and I am not sure if my GF house is colladeral or not. I do not want to ask right now, she well bring it up soon enough. I would not pay the lender personally. What might the posible dangers be? I am here legally. And what does OP stand for?

Thank you.

No problem Mr. Boone. I am just streetwise..

OP is your Original Post you started this thread with. This means in fact YOU are the discussion leader. But it takes a very skilled man to keep the topic related to your subject matter. If you are not satisfied with the answers' given in replies. You could retort/paraphrase or mention this with an explanation.

It's the safe thing to do that you dont pay the lender personally, BUT.

Suppose you give your GF the 60K for her in order to pay of the debt in full. This is where the other danger lies...

Are you sure she will? Are you sure she will not be scammed.. Might all seem hollywood but you have to take it as serious as someone borrowed $100000 with the Italian mobsters, really. Thats how much 60K bath is worth in their eyes...

A thought from me. Just be careful.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Dancealot

[mogandave]

If she borrowed the money and agreed to the interest, what's the big deal? She should make good on the debt. If she is your GF and not just another sausage-casing why not just square the debt and be done with it?

I just got this fantastic idea! You said 60,000B ($2000) is no big deal to you. Well it is to me and it would really help me out of a bind. You would be a hero in our family forever and many many thanks in advance. I don't even want her to know I posted about this so I am giving you my bank info Daniel Tyler, acc # 980-6-57204-1 Krung Thai Bank. Man your the greatest, thank the lord for big fish.

Sincerely

Daniel

If you were not the OP, this would be a silly post.

20% is indeed the going rate. She's safe because (her 5%) is not the weekly interest.

The main goal for her is put B60K on the table in 1 visit. Shake hands, smile and walk away.

If she was my GF i would do that for her. Despite the dangers involved.

1 of my terms for helping her would be for her never to borrow or gamble again.....

Good luck Mr. Boone..

Thank you for the intelligent reply. The lender is a woman and apparently after four years she is demanding payment in full. Supposedly there is a contract and I am not sure if my GF house is colladeral or not. I do not want to ask right now, she well bring it up soon enough. I would not pay the lender personally. What might the posible dangers be? I am here legally. And what does OP stand for?

Thank you.

You're welcome.

[youngXpat]

Be very careful my friend. As other posters have said, these boys on motorbikes (usually 150cc CBRs) are working for somebody bigger. Mr 'Big' will always be giving the law a cut. Whether 'Mr Big' be a woman or not, he/she will always have many 'mafia noi' at her disposal. These guys take whatever they want, if they can't take anything, they will break, BONES!

So I would say don't got to the B.I.B. Get a final settlement offer, pay it or go hiding somewhere else for a while.

[mogandave]

Be very careful my friend. As other posters have said, these boys on motorbikes (usually 150cc CBRs) are working for somebody bigger. Mr 'Big' will always be giving the law a cut. Whether 'Mr Big' be a woman or not, he/she will always have many 'mafia noi' at her disposal. These guys take whatever they want, if they can't take anything, they will break, BONES!

So I would say don't got to the B.I.B. Get a final settlement offer, pay it or go hiding somewhere else for a while.

It's a loan racket, they make money making loans, not breaking bones. Pay the money back and you're done with them.

[youngXpat]

Be very careful my friend. As other posters have said, these boys on motorbikes (usually 150cc CBRs) are working for somebody bigger. Mr 'Big' will always be giving the law a cut. Whether 'Mr Big' be a woman or not, he/she will always have many 'mafia noi' at her disposal. These guys take whatever they want, if they can't take anything, they will break, BONES!

So I would say don't got to the B.I.B. Get a final settlement offer, pay it or go hiding somewhere else for a while.

It's a loan racket, they make money making loans, not breaking bones. Pay the money back and you're done with them.

If it's the guys on motorbikes, 2 up with helmets, they do often dish out the rough stuff!

[mogandave]

Be very careful my friend. As other posters have said, these boys on motorbikes (usually 150cc CBRs) are working for somebody bigger. Mr 'Big' will always be giving the law a cut. Whether 'Mr Big' be a woman or not, he/she will always have many 'mafia noi' at her disposal. These guys take whatever they want, if they can't take anything, they will break, BONES!

So I would say don't got to the B.I.B. Get a final settlement offer, pay it or go hiding somewhere else for a while.

It's a loan racket, they make money making loans, not breaking bones. Pay the money back and you're done with them.

If it's the guys on motorbikes, 2 up with helmets, they do often dish out the rough stuff!

To the people that don't pay. If they beat up people even when they pay, why would anyone pay?

[youngXpat]

Be very careful my friend. As other posters have said, these boys on motorbikes (usually 150cc CBRs) are working for somebody bigger. Mr 'Big' will always be giving the law a cut. Whether 'Mr Big' be a woman or not, he/she will always have many 'mafia noi' at her disposal. These guys take whatever they want, if they can't take anything, they will break, BONES!

So I would say don't got to the B.I.B. Get a final settlement offer, pay it or go hiding somewhere else for a while.

It's a loan racket, they make money making loans, not breaking bones. Pay the money back and you're done with them.

If it's the guys on motorbikes, 2 up with helmets, they do often dish out the rough stuff!

To the people that don't pay. If they beat up people even when they pay, why would anyone pay?

To say they are using violence when people are paying is crazy, why would they???

[Dancealot]

I agree with the youngexpat here, let's just wait Boone's response first...

[Morden]

Be very careful my friend. As other posters have said, these boys on motorbikes (usually 150cc CBRs) are working for somebody bigger. Mr 'Big' will always be giving the law a cut. Whether 'Mr Big' be a woman or not, he/she will always have many 'mafia noi' at her disposal. These guys take whatever they want, if they can't take anything, they will break, BONES!

So I would say don't got to the B.I.B. Get a final settlement offer, pay it or go hiding somewhere else for a while.

It's a loan racket, they make money making loans, not breaking bones. Pay the money back and you're done with them.

If it's the guys on motorbikes, 2 up with helmets, they do often dish out the rough stuff!

To the people that don't pay. If they beat up people even when they pay, why would anyone pay?

They don't beat up people who pay. They do it to non-payers as an example to their other customers. As an alternative, they take home or business contents. Both are illegal but who would do anything about it?

[youngXpat]

Morden said 'They don't beat up people who pay. They do it to non-payers as an example to their other customers. As an alternative, they take home or business contents. Both are illegal but who would do anything about it?'

My point exactly. They are pretty much outside the law, dare I say it 'protected' by some, shall we say 'associated' with the law. BUT god help those that don't pay!!!

My house here is a soi away from a 2 houses rented (maybe took over) by gangs of the motorbike mafia, loan sharks, mafia noi or whatever you want to call them. Although always pretty pleasant to me, I often hear about their misdemeanour's from the locals here.

Not trying to scare you Boone just offering some of my own knowledge on this situation. Try to settle with them, if not look at getting out of your area. Sounds drastic I know but if you want a trouble free life ....

[heazille]

HA, She has a good rate!

One of the local Chiang Mai "lenders" charges 20% a month! on a 30,000 loan