Twin Bomb Explosions Shatter Boston Marathon Finish Line

[Sing_Sling]

Borrowed from a Facebook friend: Dear Boston Bombers.

We paid to have you educated at some of our finest schools; schools that are out of the reach of the vast majority of our own native born children.

Interesting . . . I wonder if it is true

[geriatrickid]

I see that the usual ignorant comments about retribution and prison rape are being regurgitated. A reality check is in order;

1. The arrival of the family came under the Bush administration's "let's put a thorn in the Russian's backside" Chechnya policy.

Dzhokar arrive on July 1, 2002, as a tourist and asked for asylum, He became a naturalized U.S. citizen on September 11, 2012.

Tamerlan first entered the United States on July 19, 2003. He was not a naturalized citizen.

There is no indication that the two boys were radicalized when they arrived. Instead, the evidence indicates that they were anything but normal kids. The radicalization occurred while in the USA. The questions as to how and why need to be asked..

2. US prisoners convicted of political and/or terror offenses are held in isolation, usually spending 23 hours in their cells and allowed out only for 1 hour of exercise or a 2 /3X a week shower. They are alone. Even the guards do not talk to them. The enforced seclusion usually drives many of these people insane within a few years. Despite some people's homerotic fantasies, the likelihood of being raped is unlikely at the maximum security facility.

3. Massachusetts does not have the death penalty. There are US federal statutes that allow for it, but the US government will have to show that the accused was guilty of the crimes. If his deceased brother can be shown to be the killer and the injured brother only an accomplice, then it will be a hard slog to obtain the death penalty. Also, there will be a reasonable concern as to making the accused into a martyr.

4. Yes, this is a horrific crime. 3 people were murdered and scores mangled. However, it is somewhat hypocritical for people to be hand wringing when during the week a fertilizer plant exploded killing 15 with possible dozens more unaccounted for and hundreds severely burned and mangled. The plant was in close proximity to a nursing home, school and residential area. The plant had a history of violations.

The question I then ask is why the Boston bombing is considered far more horrible, when it seems that the fertilizer plant was allowed to operate, guilty of safety violations in the past, and not inspected. Is this not a crime causing far more horrific death and injury? And yet the news has focused on the Boston killers. Is it perhaps easier to blame a bunch of swarthy muslims than to take responsibly for what is increasingly becoming a case of corruption and gross negligence in the Texas case? That plant was a giant fertilizer bomb that released poisonous gas and did far more damage than the Boston incident. Yet, one is considered terror and the other is not.

The US populations is distracted and allowed to vent its fears and hatreds on the Boston killers, whilst the good ole boys of Texas are treated as an innocent tragedy. Therein, is where the course of justice starts to become perverted.

Edited April 20, 2013 by geriatrickid

[geriatrickid]

Borrowed from a Facebook friend: Dear Boston Bombers.

We paid to have you educated at some of our finest schools; schools that are out of the reach of the vast majority of our own native born children.

Interesting . . . I wonder if it is true

No, but it makes it easier to beat one's chest and scream for revenge.

If this was 100 years ago, the injured accused would have been lynched by now.

[Jingthing]

Oh please. Isn't it obvious he carried a bomb and placed it with full understanding it was a lethal weapon that was going to kill and maim innocent people he was actually looking at? It probably wasn't his plan at all but he carried it out and unless he can prove he had a gun to HIS head which he clearly did not, he will be shown totally guilty. Being afraid of losing the approval of his brother ain't a gun to his head. An accomplice is like someone who drives a getaway car.

People passionately against the death penalty are going to argue that on any case. In my view, that's a diversion. Death penalty or life in prison, whatever, as far I'm concerned life in prison for a 19 year old can easily be seen as worse than the death penalty. As said before, his life is over and good riddance.

Edited April 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[ZhouZhou]

meanwhile a Statement of the Ambassador of the Czech Republic


As more information on the origin of the alleged perpetrators is coming to light, I am concerned to note in the social media a most unfortunate misunderstanding in this respect. The Czech Republic and Chechnya are two very different entities - the Czech Republic is a Central European country; Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation.

http://www.mzv.cz/washington/en/czech_u_s_relations/news/statement_of_the_ambassador_of_the_czech.html

[Loptr]

This case is a watermark for me. I always thought that if you took intelligent people, brought them to the west, gave them good life, good education and a chance at a great life, Almost no one would turn to this type of deviant behavior.

This is a clear case where i am totally wrong. There are some people that are wired in such a way that even with all the assets available to them, they still chose to hurt other people.

What is it about the Islamist Muslims that make them so different from moderate Muslims and the rest of humanity? I dont think any other religious subset causes so much pain. please correct me if i am wrong.

Is it that they believe and obey their religious clerics without question? Do they? If so, does that make them more susceptible to deviant ideology?

I'm not even sure about moderate Muslims now. It seems that these young men started out as moderate Muslims they suffered no injustices in the US, but still were turned to radicalism without anyone moderate knowing it. If someone noticed something, they are not saying it, there by perpetuating the radicalism of others.

I'll probably get flame for this, showing my ignorance and all, but i'm really at a wall here. Any enlightening thoughts from any one? I'm really troubled by my conclusion that even all moderate Muslims could be radicalized, and the only warning sign is a showing of slight discontentment.(who hasn't felt disenchanted at one time or another?) And if any moderate could be radicalized, its not really deviant behavior, but something that is a part of the religious nature, albeit a minor part.

I hope the investigations in the next several days, weeks months, years, will add some clarity to my thoughts.

Muslims are good and bad as any other of the Abrahamic religions.

Please tell us any other time in history that a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or any of the other 5000+ deities worshiped on the planet today has placed shrapnel bombs in public places to murder and maim innocent civilians? This is the MO of the radical Islamist. No sense arguing the point.

[Loptr]

My understanding is that shortly before the capture the bleeding white hat suspect in the boat was STILL shooting! He was clearly looking at that point to do suicide by police, but the police weren't playing his game. So why when it wasn't working didn't he shoot himself?

It hurts......

Yes, but just for a millisecond.

[Jingthing]

My understanding is that shortly before the capture the bleeding white hat suspect in the boat was STILL shooting! He was clearly looking at that point to do suicide by police, but the police weren't playing his game. So why when it wasn't working didn't he shoot himself?

It hurts......

Yes, but just for a millisecond.

I guess it takes a different kind of "courage" to off yourself as opposed to placing a bomb in a large crowd of people.

[JDGRUEN]

Why did the Chechen Brothers Bomb and Kill? .... "They murdered people because Islam gives them the theological sanction to use violence against infidels whose existence threatens the Islamic hegemony sanctioned by Allah."

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/illusions-about-why-muslim-brothers-kill/

Illusions About Why Muslim Brothers Kill

[Jingthing]

Why did the Chechen Brothers Bomb and Kill? .... "They murdered people because Islam gives them the theological sanction to use violence against infidels whose existence threatens the Islamic hegemony sanctioned by Allah."

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/bruce-thornton/illusions-about-why-muslim-brothers-kill/

Illusions About Why Muslim Brothers Kill

Another point. Even IF the main motivation of the living perp is to go along with his brother rather than actually being a fanatic Jihadist, he STILL did the deeds! So his motivation is interesting and worth learning about but it is ultimately irrelevant to his GUILT.

The psychology of the brother relationship gets even more interesting. This report suggests that Dzhokar deliberately killed his own brother rather than let him be captured alive. Did they discuss this before? I bet there is no note left in their homes explaining themselves. Their actions were enough for them.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2013/04/20/boston_bombing_suspect_dzhokar_tsarnaev_may_have_killed_his_brother.html

At one point Tamerlan started walking directly toward the police while

shooting, and when he ran out of ammunition an officer used the

opportunity to tackle him. But when officers were handcuffing him in the

middle of the street they suddenly realized a black SUV driven by

Dzhokar Tsarnaev was coming right for them. The officers “dive out of

the way, and he drives over his brother and drags him a short distance

down the street."

Edited April 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[MAJIC]

Here is how one UK Newspaper has reported,today Saturday the 20th!

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4895864/Marathon-manhunt-Muslim-bomber-shot-dead-in-Boston-as-his-19-year-old-brother-goes-on-run.html

[JDGRUEN]

These guys were cowards. They didn't plan to get caught or to die. They planned to leave some bombs, kill and maim men, women and children, and then skate away. They weren't suicide bombers.

I'll have to wait and see what the various feds figure out about what they were. I'm betting they had help and training along with indoctrination and encouragement. They had a variety of bombs, some of which they threw at pursuing police. They had a mega stash of what was probably black gun powder.

The feds' job #1 right now is to find out who else was involved and that's why no Miranda reading. I'm happy they took this guy alive which they obviously took some risks to do. I hope he lives to find out he has to spill his guts about what happened.

---------------

About powder. Most explosions have black smoke, and as the news pointed out, this was white smoke indicating either smokeless gun powder or black gun powder. Black is the old powder that many people used to make themselves for use in muzzle loaders. It can still be purchased by those who like to shoot antique guns or replicas of them. But it isn't used by that many people and not in those quantities.

Black powder burns at a much faster rate than modern smokeless powder, more like an explosion and it is the powder of choice for bombs. So the hunt is on for the purchaser(s) of all of the components of those bombs, and the brands and types of all components will be known.

It will be known no only who manufactured that powder, but if it was commercial, what batch it was. Some retailer may blow the whistle about a large purchase, and it may be someone other than these perps.

The real investigation hasn't even really started. It took about 10 years to pin the 9/11 killings on Osama Bin Laden and track him down and kill him.

This kid is a coward. He will talk for a plea bargain to save his life. As the late great Karen Carpenter sang, "We've only just begun."

The pressure cooker method was reportedly intended to amplify the blast by containing the pressure briefly until it built up to very high PSI. Reportedly - the second blast was weaker because the lid was not secured tightly enough. This report is not verified.

Go and get it verified, stupid. It's like suggesting to contain an exploding nuke with tin foil. A pressure cooker is designed for 15 or so psi, but a gun powder explosion produces millions of psi.

"The tightly sealed pot makes easier-to-obtain but weaker explosives faster and stronger, amplifying the blast and the carnage"

http://news.yahoo.com/pressure-cooker-bombs-suspected-boston-blast-014502296--spt.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/16/fbi-boston-marathon-bombing-investigation_n_3089106.html

In kitchens, they prepare food faster, but pressure cookers by their very nature help make good bombs, amplifying the blast and the carnage.

http://www.duluthnewstribune.com/event/article/id/264487/

Googling or 'Binging' "

but weaker explosives faster and stronger,

amplifying the blast" produces hundreds of hits published by dozens and dozens of news sites where the publishers seemed to believe the veracity of the claim. I suppose some want a professional test document from a forensic lab but you will have to find it yourself. Edited April 20, 2013 by JDGRUEN

[Jingthing]

Classic front page. Newspapers still live:

This is kind of an interesting tidbit. It's an unsolved case. A contradiction here -- Tamerlan said he had no American friends but the "best friend" mysteriously murdered in 2011. Yes, people are asking questions now. Also killed at the scene were Raphael Teken (alumni of the famous Jewish university Brandeis and Erik Weissman, obviously a Jewish man).

Gym owner Allan is currently travelling in ... THAILAND.

Gym owner Allan said that Tamerlan had once introduced him to an
American, Brendan Mess, whom Tamerlan described as his best friend.

Two years ago, Mess and two other men were brutally killed in a
Waltham apartment where they were found by police with their throats
slit and their bodies covered with marijuana. The murders remain
unsolved.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2013/04/19/relatives-marathon-bombing-suspects-worried-that-older-brother-was-corrupting-sweet-younger-sibling/UCYHkiP9nfsjAtMjJPWJJL/story.html

Edited April 20, 2013 by Jingthing

[Sing_Sling]

Borrowed from a Facebook friend: Dear Boston Bombers.

We paid to have you educated at some of our finest schools; schools that are out of the reach of the vast majority of our own native born children.

Interesting . . . I wonder if it is true

No, but it makes it easier to beat one's chest and scream for revenge.

If this was 100 years ago, the injured accused would have been lynched by now.

My point precisely

[Steely Dan]

meanwhile a Statement of the Ambassador of the Czech Republic

As more information on the origin of the alleged perpetrators is coming to light, I am concerned to note in the social media a most unfortunate misunderstanding in this respect. The Czech Republic and Chechnya are two very different entities - the Czech Republic is a Central European country; Chechnya is a part of the Russian Federation.

http://www.mzv.cz/washington/en/czech_u_s_relations/news/statement_of_the_ambassador_of_the_czech.html

Reality Czech,

[Steely Dan]

If this indeed is the new and predominant reality, i.e., grassroots terrorists within the U.S., then we need to take seriously the new imperative to us from law enforcement and national security officials - if you see something, say something.

Here is another twist:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2013/04/dzhokhar_and_tamerlan_tsarnaev_if_the_suspected_boston_marathon_bombers.html

>

Look, instead, at another possibility—one that is in some ways more

disturbing than the convenient "foreigners who hate us" explanation.

Although very little has been confirmed, the behavior of the Tsarnaev

brothers looks less like that of hardened, trained terrorists and far

more closely resembles the second-generation European Muslims who have

staged bombings in Madrid, London, and other European cities. Educated

and brought up in Europe, these young men nevertheless felt out of place

in Europe. Unable to integrate, some turned toward a half-remembered,

half-mythological homeland in search of a firmer, fiercer identity.

Often they did so with the help of a radical cleric like the one the

Tsarnaev brothers may have known. "I do not have a single American

friend," Tamerlan Tsarnaev reportedly said of himself. That's the kind

of statement that might have been made by a young Pakistani living in

Coventry or a young Algerian living in Paris.

We don't expect to hear it from someone who grew up in Boston, a city

that has taught generations of foreigners to become Americans in a

country that likes to think of itself as a melting pot. But now it might

be time to change our expectations. These terrorists are a lot less

like the 9/11 attackers and a lot more like the men known as the Tube

bombers of London or the train bombers of Spain. Our response is going

to have to be different—very different—as well.

There is a feint hope and window of opportunity to learn something if what are considered liberal publications, such as Slate. start to ask questions. The response to this new sort of terrorism in Europe may well involve being more proactive in breaking up such cells. I recently read a British newspaper stating bombings, such as the 7/7 attack are broken up on an ongoing basis.

The heresy to orthodox thinking within the article is the observation that second generation immigrants are the new terrorists, indeed the sad fact is that the current generation are not assimilating and don't want to assimilate. For the U.S there may still be time to stop immigration from problem groups before the problem gets too large, but for Countries like France and Belgium it may be too late already and new Lebanons will spring up around Europe. This is the poisonous fruit of multi-culturalism without checks and monitoring coming home to roost, like Chechens.

[F430murci]

My understanding is that shortly before the capture the bleeding white hat suspect in the boat was STILL shooting! He was clearly looking at that point to do suicide by police, but the police weren't playing his game. So why when it wasn't working didn't he shoot himself?

It hurts......

He was facing getting killed by strangers. Basically demanding it. That hurts too.

It's like a company paying management consultants to make decisions they could easily make for themselves. Get someone else to do the nasty work...

I am hearing or heard that he apparently tried to kill himself. He has a gun shot wound to the back of the neck they believe was self inflicted like he shot through his mouth and it came out the base of his skull. He also had a gunshot wound to the leg. He cannot speak at the present as a result of the mouth wound.

[Morden]

Borrowed from a Facebook friend: Dear Boston Bombers.

We paid to have you educated at some of our finest schools; schools that are out of the reach of the vast majority of our own native born children.

Interesting . . . I wonder if it is true

No, but it makes it easier to beat one's chest and scream for revenge.

If this was 100 years ago, the injured accused would have been lynched by now.

And thank goodness we have moved on from that, especially as so many Western lives have been sacrificed for the alleged reason that brutal execution is abhorrent.

I have neither seen nor heard any evidence yet to the effect that this was a religiously motivated act. At least one of the brothers felt out of place in the US. The design of the bombs is probably available on the internet. They showed themselves as rank amateurs by exposing their faces to cameras and hanging around until after the bombs went off. Their arsenal of weapons suggests that they had a grudge but more needs to be known before it can be said that they were Islamic extremists.

[F430murci]

I see that the usual ignorant comments about retribution and prison rape are being regurgitated. A reality check is in order;

1. The arrival of the family came under the Bush administration's "let's put a thorn in the Russian's backside" Chechnya policy.

Dzhokar arrive on July 1, 2002, as a tourist and asked for asylum, He became a naturalized U.S. citizen on September 11, 2012.

Tamerlan first entered the United States on July 19, 2003. He was not a naturalized citizen.

There is no indication that the two boys were radicalized when they arrived. Instead, the evidence indicates that they were anything but normal kids. The radicalization occurred while in the USA. The questions as to how and why need to be asked..

2. US prisoners convicted of political and/or terror offenses are held in isolation, usually spending 23 hours in their cells and allowed out only for 1 hour of exercise or a 2 /3X a week shower. They are alone. Even the guards do not talk to them. The enforced seclusion usually drives many of these people insane within a few years. Despite some people's homerotic fantasies, the likelihood of being raped is unlikely at the maximum security facility.

3. Massachusetts does not have the death penalty. There are US federal statutes that allow for it, but the US government will have to show that the accused was guilty of the crimes. If his deceased brother can be shown to be the killer and the injured brother only an accomplice, then it will be a hard slog to obtain the death penalty. Also, there will be a reasonable concern as to making the accused into a martyr.

4. Yes, this is a horrific crime. 3 people were murdered and scores mangled. However, it is somewhat hypocritical for people to be hand wringing when during the week a fertilizer plant exploded killing 15 with possible dozens more unaccounted for and hundreds severely burned and mangled. The plant was in close proximity to a nursing home, school and residential area. The plant had a history of violations.

The question I then ask is why the Boston bombing is considered far more horrible, when it seems that the fertilizer plant was allowed to operate, guilty of safety violations in the past, and not inspected. Is this not a crime causing far more horrific death and injury? And yet the news has focused on the Boston killers. Is it perhaps easier to blame a bunch of swarthy muslims than to take responsibly for what is increasingly becoming a case of corruption and gross negligence in the Texas case? That plant was a giant fertilizer bomb that released poisonous gas and did far more damage than the Boston incident. Yet, one is considered terror and the other is not.

The US populations is distracted and allowed to vent its fears and hatreds on the Boston killers, whilst the good ole boys of Texas are treated as an innocent tragedy. Therein, is where the course of justice starts to become perverted.

Really? Intentional terrorists acts indiscriminately targeting women and children are more shocking to the conscience than horrible accidents resulting from negligence, at least to normal folk here in US. Has very little to do with the value of those lives lost and everything to do with MO.

[keemapoot]

Meanwhile, Justice Dept. Prosecutors are busy formulating the charges against the kid. I can already see a landmark legal battle coming up over this "Public Safety Exception" that he is held without a lawyer and without being read his rights.

But this is not an ordinary case, say U.S. Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham. They urged that Tsarnaev be held as an "enemy combatant," a designation that allows a suspect to be questioned without a lawyer and without being informed of his Miranda rights.

lan Dershowitz, a prominent defense attorney and Harvard law professor, scoffed at the Republican senators' statement. "Impossible. There's no way an American citizen committing a domestic crime in the city of Boston could be tried as an enemy combatant," he told CNN's Piers Morgan. "It could never happen. And that shows absolute ignorance of the law." Dershowitz also said statements made by police in Boston seems to contradict the government's reasons for invoking the public safety exception. "The police have said there's no public safety issue; it's solved, it's over," Dershowitz said. "There are no further threats. But the FBI is saying there's enough further threats to justify an exception."

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said the federal government may have known about international threats about which state officials were not aware.

High Profile celebrity defense lawyers must be licking their chops and sending flowers and candy to the kid's hospital room with love notes. I can't wait to see the dream team that gets this one.

"If the older brother's Islamist motives don't fit you must acquit"

[F430murci]

Borrowed from a Facebook friend: Dear Boston Bombers.

We paid to have you educated at some of our finest schools; schools that are out of the reach of the vast majority of our own native born children.

Interesting . . . I wonder if it is true

No, but it makes it easier to beat one's chest and scream for revenge.

If this was 100 years ago, the injured accused would have been lynched by now.

And thank goodness we have moved on from that, especially as so many Western lives have been sacrificed for the alleged reason that brutal execution is abhorrent.

I have neither seen nor heard any evidence yet to the effect that this was a religiously motivated act. At least one of the brothers felt out of place in the US. The design of the bombs is probably available on the internet. They showed themselves as rank amateurs by exposing their faces to cameras and hanging around until after the bombs went off. Their arsenal of weapons suggests that they had a grudge but more needs to be known before it can be said that they were Islamic extremists.

Uhm, everything, all evidence and everything is pointing to Islamic whacko crap. Nit sure where your info comes from . . . Dude went off deep end after introduction to an extremists in 2009ish, forced his American wife to drop out of college and convert and wear garb, was pegged by Russia as an extremists in FBI bulletin, spent 9 months in Russia with extremists, prayer routine according to wife's family was nothing short of bizarre. Dude was just another whacked Islamic radical looking to exact pain and death on innocents.

[F430murci]

Meanwhile, Justice Dept. Prosecutors are busy formulating the charges against the kid. I can already see a landmark legal battle coming up over this "Public Safety Exception" that he is held without a lawyer and without being read his rights.

But this is not an ordinary case, say U.S. Sens. John McCain and Lindsey Graham. They urged that Tsarnaev be held as an "enemy combatant," a designation that allows a suspect to be questioned without a lawyer and without being informed of his Miranda rights.

lan Dershowitz, a prominent defense attorney and Harvard law professor, scoffed at the Republican senators' statement. "Impossible. There's no way an American citizen committing a domestic crime in the city of Boston could be tried as an enemy combatant," he told CNN's Piers Morgan. "It could never happen. And that shows absolute ignorance of the law." Dershowitz also said statements made by police in Boston seems to contradict the government's reasons for invoking the public safety exception. "The police have said there's no public safety issue; it's solved, it's over," Dershowitz said. "There are no further threats. But the FBI is saying there's enough further threats to justify an exception."

Former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani said the federal government may have known about international threats about which state officials were not aware.

High Profile celebrity defense lawyers must be licking their chops and sending flowers and candy to the kid's hospital room with love notes. I can't wait to see the dream team that gets this one.

"If the older brother's Islamist motives don't fit you must acquit"

Haha, it'll be alright and I doubt he will get some high profile defense attorney. More like appointed state paid counsel at like $ 125 an hour or what ever that Federal appointed rate is. No high profile lawyer is going to waste that much time working at $ 125 an hour when they have their calendar full of $ 750 to $ 1,000 an hour already.

[keemapoot]

^Agreed high profile lawyers don't need the case, but with unique legal questions to be decided in the case, it is a chance to add to their fame and standing, and ultimately success in landing the whale clients who do have loads of cash to spend.

[Ulysses G.]

The good ole boys in Texas did not purposely set off a bomb in a crowd of innocent men, women and children.

The US populations is distracted and allowed to vent its fears and hatreds on the Boston killers, whilst the good ole boys of Texas are treated as an innocent tragedy.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[F430murci]

^Agreed high profile lawyers don't need the case, but with unique legal questions to be decided in the case, it is a chance to add to their fame and standing, and ultimately success in landing the whale clients who do have loads of cash to spend.

Tough one. Could cut both ways and be professional suicide if want to practice in Boston in future. Big difference in representing an American icon and celebrity accused of killing his lying cheating wife in a racially polarized and charged community like LA in the early 90s. As bad as it sounds, some probably thought and still thinks she deserved it. LA racially motivated mentality. I guess a Boston lawyer looking to build a client base of Islamist might take case, I sure wouldn't.

Edited April 21, 2013 by F430murci

[Ulysses G.]

I have neither seen nor heard any evidence yet to the effect that this was a religiously motivated act. At least one of the brothers felt out of place in the US. The design of the bombs is probably available on the internet. They showed themselves as rank amateurs by exposing their faces to cameras and hanging around until after the bombs went off. Their arsenal of weapons suggests that they had a grudge but more needs to be known before it can be said that they were Islamic extremists.

They are Muslims who posted jihad videos and Nazi propaganda on their social media sites and the vast array of explosives they had made strongly suggests that they had training in making them. It is pretty darn obvious what motivated them.

[uptheos]

My understanding is that shortly before the capture the bleeding white hat suspect in the boat was STILL shooting! He was clearly looking at that point to do suicide by police, but the police weren't playing his game. So why when it wasn't working didn't he shoot himself?

It hurts......

Yes, but just for a millisecond.

I guess being killed by others and being a martyr, guarantees the heaven and virgin thing, whereas, suicide is a grey area. Nice to know he's not the suicidal type and it would be nice if he could get locked up for life (meaning life). Just put him in a small cell alone with the Koran, no other books, papers, radio, TV etc. After all these are the wicked ways of the infidel and he wouldn't want them. No visitors. Keep him safe and hopefully he will live to a ripe old age, studying the Koran and talking to Allah as much as he wants. He's 19 now, so hopefully he could do about another 60 years of solitary studying.

[keemapoot]

^Agreed high profile lawyers don't need the case, but with unique legal questions to be decided in the case, it is a chance to add to their fame and standing, and ultimately success in landing the whale clients who do have loads of cash to spend.

Tough one. Could cut both ways and be professional suicide if want to practice in Boston in future. Big difference in representing an American icon and celebrity accused of killing his lying cheating wife in a racially polarized and charged community like LA in the early 90s. As bad as it sounds, some probably thought and still thinks she deserved it. LA racially motivated mentality. I guess a Boston lawyer looking to build a client base of Islamist might take case, I sure wouldn't.

I never practiced criminal law so not sure what might motivate these guys. Seems to me someone specializing in defending big mob figures, or other high profile criminal defendants with cash might be tempted just for the vast exposure. I agree any practicing lawyer from Boston who took it might just as well go out and buy a fast food franchise ahead of time.

[F430murci]

^Agreed high profile lawyers don't need the case, but with unique legal questions to be decided in the case, it is a chance to add to their fame and standing, and ultimately success in landing the whale clients who do have loads of cash to spend.

Tough one. Could cut both ways and be professional suicide if want to practice in Boston in future. Big difference in representing an American icon and celebrity accused of killing his lying cheating wife in a racially polarized and charged community like LA in the early 90s. As bad as it sounds, some probably thought and still thinks she deserved it. LA racially motivated mentality. I guess a Boston lawyer looking to build a client base of Islamist might take case, I sure wouldn't.

I never practiced criminal law so not sure what might motivate these guys. Seems to me someone specializing in defending big mob figures, or other high profile criminal defendants with cash might be tempted just for the vast exposure. I agree any practicing lawyer from Boston who took it might just as well go out and buy a fast food franchise ahead of time.

Haha, I have never practiced criminal law either, but I clerked for a criminal defense attorney while in school in 91/92 and he was generally motivated by cash or clients that could pay. Didn't matter who they were cash. Cash talked, bs walked.

Reminds me of a story . . . He represented not the Hell's Angels, but that other gang whose name I cannot recall in a meth case. They paid huge retainer, got pissed at him and started calling us, the staff, threatening us because they wanted their money back and the lawyer would not call them back fast enough. We literally had a speed dial number to the cops for a couple of days until he got it sorted out. I was like damn, my $10 an hour ain't worth this shit.

Edited April 21, 2013 by F430murci

[F430murci]

My understanding is that shortly before the capture the bleeding white hat suspect in the boat was STILL shooting! He was clearly looking at that point to do suicide by police, but the police weren't playing his game. So why when it wasn't working didn't he shoot himself?

It hurts......

Yes, but just for a millisecond.

I guess being killed by others and being a martyr, guarantees the heaven and virgin thing, whereas, suicide is a grey area. Nice to know he's not the suicidal type and it would be nice if he could get locked up for life (meaning life). Just put him in a small cell alone with the Koran, no other books, papers, radio, TV etc. After all these are the wicked ways of the infidel and he wouldn't want them. No visitors. Keep him safe and hopefully he will live to a ripe old age, studying the Koran and talking to Allah as much as he wants. He's 19 now, so hopefully he could do about another 60 years of solitary studying.

As indicated above, I think it will come out soon that he did try and off himself, but the bullet just went out the back of his neck leaving a non-fatal wound. Solitary he is facing will be way worse fate. Edited April 21, 2013 by F430murci