Twin Bomb Explosions Shatter Boston Marathon Finish Line

[ZhouZhou]

Edit, sorry the quotes are too messed up to save the post

Been there also dude.

But on a different note,

I for one, think that the suspects uncle deserves all my respect (whether he wants it or not! lol)

He's one of the rare muslim that has openly spoken out against other muslims (his nephews) and in favor of his country, the US. His disgust was palpable. I truly felt sorry for this man, who at least on the surface, looks to be the typical american regardless of religion, and just trying to lead a good life. He will also be ever stained by his nephews. My hope is the this stain on him is soluble somewhat and he will be able to move on. Probably not until well after the trial, however.

There was even a statement by some Pakistan taliban that they would not make such bombings.

I don't think that it is a RARE Muslim who think such bombings are not good.

Agreed, on the muslims that think so. But I'll go further. I believe most muslims, moderate or not, believe so also.

but it is rare, for a muslim to go against another muslim in support of the US, esp. with such conviction. and that includes muslims that currently have immigrated to the US.

There was a piece in the BBC, prior to information about the suspects being released, about how the Muslim community of Boston was hoping that the purps were not Muslim (selfish thought or not they realized). They seemed like meek and cowed groups. but that's how the fundamentalist Muslims groups work, i believe. They submit the will of any opposing groups or ideas with threats of harm or death. So yes, from what I've seen, Any Muslim that is willing to come out publicly and stand with his other fellow countrymen of the US, against the fundamentalist Islamist is rare.

If i'm wrong, please show me.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Islamic-Society-of-Boston-Cultural-Center-ISBCC/196151363757324

Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center (ISBCC)

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

Contact: Yusufi Vali, Tel: 617-427-2636

Imam Suhaib Webb, Tel: 617-318-1512

April 20, 2013

Boston-Muslim Community Proud of Our Law Enforcement and City; Re-opens Today

The Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center and the Boston-Muslim Community is proud of our law enforcement officials in apprehending the second Boston bombing suspect. We are also proud of our Boston community in immediately providing tips to law enforcement officials in apprehending these suspects.

While we are all relieved for our weeklong nightmare to end, we are also deeply troubled and saddened. Yesterday, one of our police officers was brutally killed and another injured. We cannot help but feel angry that all this has happened to our city.

Details emerged yesterday that both these suspects had been known to our Boston Community - to our public schools, to their local boxing club, to one of our faith communities at the Cambridge mosque, and even to the FBI. Yet, no one inside of these institutions was able to predict these acts of terror by the alleged suspects. This hurts, and we wish we all - our faith community and all the institutions listed above - could have done something to prevent this.

...

Edited April 21, 2013 by ZhouZhou

[folium]

Edit, sorry the quotes are too messed up to save the post

Been there also dude.

But on a different note,

I for one, think that the suspects uncle deserves all my respect (whether he wants it or not! lol)

He's one of the rare muslim that has openly spoken out against other muslims (his nephews) and in favor of his country, the US. His disgust was palpable. I truly felt sorry for this man, who at least on the surface, looks to be the typical american regardless of religion, and just trying to lead a good life. He will also be ever stained by his nephews. My hope is the this stain on him is soluble somewhat and he will be able to move on. Probably not until well after the trial, however.

There was even a statement by some Pakistan taliban that they would not make such bombings.

I don't think that it is a RARE Muslim who think such bombings are not good.

Agreed, on the muslims that think so. But I'll go further. I believe most muslims, moderate or not, believe so also.

but it is rare, for a muslim to go against another muslim in support of the US, esp. with such conviction. and that includes muslims that currently have immigrated to the US.

There was a piece in the BBC, prior to information about the suspects being released, about how the Muslim community of Boston was hoping that the purps were not Muslim (selfish thought or not they realized). They seemed like meek and cowed groups. but that's how the fundamentalist Muslims groups work, i believe. They submit the will of any opposing groups or ideas with threats of harm or death. So yes, from what I've seen, Any Muslim that is willing to come out publicly and stand with his other fellow countrymen of the US, against the fundamentalist Islamist is rare.

If i'm wrong, please show me.

Sorry to say this but you have got this one totally ass about face....

Here's the BBC item you mentioned:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22191030

What the Muslim community of Boston was fearing was a backlash of anti-Muslim sentiment if the bombers proved to be co-religionists. It had nothing to do with Muslims being cowed and weak in the face of Muslim extremists, quite the opposite. What they feared were bigoted numb nuts like the jerks who abused and assaulted Sikh cabbies in NYC after September 11th.

[Steely Dan]

Folium wrote

What the Muslim community of Boston was fearing was a backlash of anti-Muslim sentiment if the bombers proved to be co-religionists. It had nothing to do with Muslims being cowed and weak in the face of Muslim extremists, quite the opposite. What they feared were bigoted numb nuts like the jerks who abused and assaulted Sikh cabbies in NYC after September 11th.

Or more likely to play the victim card to deflect attention away from and to not take responsibility for radicalization going on in their midst, Incidentally hate crimes against Muslims are lower than those against black, gays or Jews.

[Steely Dan]

This case is a watermark for me. I always thought that if you took intelligent people, brought them to the west, gave them good life, good education and a chance at a great life, Almost no one would turn to this type of deviant behavior.

This is a clear case where i am totally wrong. There are some people that are wired in such a way that even with all the assets available to them, they still chose to hurt other people.

What is it about the Islamist Muslims that make them so different from moderate Muslims and the rest of humanity? I dont think any other religious subset causes so much pain. please correct me if i am wrong.

Is it that they believe and obey their religious clerics without question? Do they? If so, does that make them more susceptible to deviant ideology?

I'm not even sure about moderate Muslims now. It seems that these young men started out as moderate Muslims they suffered no injustices in the US, but still were turned to radicalism without anyone moderate knowing it. If someone noticed something, they are not saying it, there by perpetuating the radicalism of others.

I'll probably get flame for this, showing my ignorance and all, but i'm really at a wall here. Any enlightening thoughts from any one? I'm really troubled by my conclusion that even all moderate Muslims could be radicalized, and the only warning sign is a showing of slight discontentment.(who hasn't felt disenchanted at one time or another?) And if any moderate could be radicalized, its not really deviant behavior, but something that is a part of the religious nature, albeit a minor part.

I hope the investigations in the next several days, weeks months, years, will add some clarity to my thoughts.

Muslims are good and bad as any other of the Abrahamic religions.

Please tell us any other time in history that a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or any of the other 5000+ deities worshiped on the planet today has placed shrapnel bombs in public places to murder and maim innocent civilians? This is the MO of the radical Islamist. No sense arguing the point.

Any major religion you care to mention will have incidents in their history of the mass murder of innocent civilians. Communists/atheists can also be included, just have a look at the recent history of the homeland area of the Boston bombers; Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia have all seen brutal massacres of civilians.

Re shrapnel bombs or nail bombs, they are hardly the preserve of jihadists. For instance the US Weathermen were keen users of such devices, as were both Loyalists and Republicans in Ulster, a right wing nut job in London also used nail bombs. Henry Shrapnel was a Napoleonic British Army officer who invented shrapnel shells and the concept continues to this day in military use, albeit using flèchettes or ball bearings rather than nails and bolts.

Even Bill Mayer is calling that apologist line Liberal Bull***t

http://dailycaller.com/2013/04/20/bill-maher-violence-islam-christianity-liberal-bullshit/#ixzz2R2St5c22

[folium]

Edit, sorry the quotes are too messed up to save the post

Been there also dude.

But on a different note,

I for one, think that the suspects uncle deserves all my respect (whether he wants it or not! lol)

He's one of the rare muslim that has openly spoken out against other muslims (his nephews) and in favor of his country, the US. His disgust was palpable. I truly felt sorry for this man, who at least on the surface, looks to be the typical american regardless of religion, and just trying to lead a good life. He will also be ever stained by his nephews. My hope is the this stain on him is soluble somewhat and he will be able to move on. Probably not until well after the trial, however.

How many +1's can we give a post?

People can recognize the hurt, betrayal and genuine anger that the Uncle displayed. We recognize the common humanity. As long as we always remember to recognize the common humanity the terrorists cannot win, because they rely upon us turning against each other.

When we do that, that is their victory, so I choose the former path. The vilification of all Muslims by a certain contingent is playing into the hands of terrorists. They use racial attacks as recruiting sergeants, they use religious hatred as recruiting sergeants.

Don't feed the dragon

The whole sad saga of Chechnya underlines this point exactly. From the bloody 50 year Caucasus War of the 19th century ( which culminated in the world's first comprehensive ethnic cleansing ), to Soviet repression in 1921, to Beria's expulsion of all Chechens ( murdering any who were untransportable) in 1944 which killed a quarter to half the Chechen population ( and has been recognised as an act of genocide), to the 1st and 2nd Chechen wars in the 1992-1996 and 1999-2009.

This Clash of Civilizations style of approach to the Chechens by Russia in no way condones the action of the Boston bombers, but does underline how such a simplistic and brutal approach has achieved the thorough radicalisation of an entire ethnic group with bloody consequences for both Russia and now the US. Providing recruits for extremist actions is not a sensible approach.

[I Like Thai]

Edit, sorry the quotes are too messed up to save the post

Been there also dude.

But on a different note,

I for one, think that the suspects uncle deserves all my respect (whether he wants it or not! lol)

He's one of the rare muslim that has openly spoken out against other muslims (his nephews) and in favor of his country, the US. His disgust was palpable. I truly felt sorry for this man, who at least on the surface, looks to be the typical american regardless of religion, and just trying to lead a good life. He will also be ever stained by his nephews. My hope is the this stain on him is soluble somewhat and he will be able to move on. Probably not until well after the trial, however.

There was even a statement by some Pakistan taliban that they would not make such bombings.

I don't think that it is a RARE Muslim who think such bombings are not good.

Agreed, on the muslims that think so. But I'll go further. I believe most muslims, moderate or not, believe so also.

but it is rare, for a muslim to go against another muslim in support of the US, esp. with such conviction. and that includes muslims that currently have immigrated to the US.

There was a piece in the BBC, prior to information about the suspects being released, about how the Muslim community of Boston was hoping that the purps were not Muslim (selfish thought or not they realized). They seemed like meek and cowed groups. but that's how the fundamentalist Muslims groups work, i believe. They submit the will of any opposing groups or ideas with threats of harm or death. So yes, from what I've seen, Any Muslim that is willing to come out publicly and stand with his other fellow countrymen of the US, against the fundamentalist Islamist is rare.

If i'm wrong, please show me.

I'd say that you would be mostly wrong.

In all probability the vast majority of the Muslim community know absolutely nothing of what goes on within the terrorist community. They have no knowledge of it, don't agree with it and would never support it. In fact they are just the same as other members of the population.

They are fed up with the way they are always expected to apologise for something they have had no involvement with.

They don't "come out" against the terrorists, because they don't want any involvement with it. It's highly unlikely that they have ever been threatened, but at the same time they appreciate that they are better off not knowing anything.

Terrorists groups work in very tight, closed circles. Nobody but the people involved know anything about what they do.

[I Like Thai]

Folium wrote

What the Muslim community of Boston was fearing was a backlash of anti-Muslim sentiment if the bombers proved to be co-religionists. It had nothing to do with Muslims being cowed and weak in the face of Muslim extremists, quite the opposite. What they feared were bigoted numb nuts like the jerks who abused and assaulted Sikh cabbies in NYC after September 11th.

Or more likely to play the victim card to deflect attention away from and to not take responsibility for radicalization going on in their midst, Incidentally hate crimes against Muslims are lower than those against black, gays or Jews.

In the case of a Muslim family, who say run something like the local 7/11 store and have done so all their life. They don't know any terrorists. How do you suggest that they fulfill their responsibilities ? In what way are they playing the victim card ?

[jamhar]

Sorry to say this but you have got this one totally ass about face....

Here's the BBC item you mentioned:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22191030

What the Muslim community of Boston was fearing was a backlash of anti-Muslim sentiment if the bombers proved to be co-religionists. It had nothing to do with Muslims being cowed and weak in the face of Muslim extremists, quite the opposite. What they feared were bigoted numb nuts like the jerks who abused and assaulted Sikh cabbies in NYC after September 11th.

f, regarding the "ass about face" (love the phrase) comment,

for me, it wouldn't be the first time and it wont be the last

not afraid of failure or ridicule.

one teaches me a lesson

and the other reminds me not to forget it! lol

Thanks for digging up that link.

I'll respond a bit later when i can,

but i stand by my statement, as convoluted as it was.

One of the dangers of posting in hast.

[Jingthing]

In all probability the vast majority of the Muslim community know absolutely nothing of what goes on within the terrorist community. They have no knowledge of it, don't agree with it and would never support it. In fact they are just the same as other members of the population.

Depends on how you define vast majority.

You might want to rethink the theory that SUPPORT for extremism in Islam is at all rare:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

I do think the numbers of actual active terrorists are indeed small.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[I Like Thai]

In all probability the vast majority of the Muslim community know absolutely nothing of what goes on within the terrorist community. They have no knowledge of it, don't agree with it and would never support it. In fact they are just the same as other members of the population.

Depends on how you define vast majority.

You might want to rethink the theory that SUPPORT for extremism in Islam is at all rare:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

I do think the numbers of actual active terrorists are indeed small.

There are statistics and then there is the real world.

[Exsexyman]

If young Mr Tsarnaev is indeed a radical Muslim, i'm sure he'll be over the moon to wake up at Beth Israel Deaconess hospital!

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted and replies. This topic is not about Islam and it is not about all terrorists. Please stay on the topic.

[jamhar]

In all probability the vast majority of the Muslim community know absolutely nothing of what goes on within the terrorist community. They have no knowledge of it, don't agree with it and would never support it. In fact they are just the same as other members of the population.

Depends on how you define vast majority.

You might want to rethink the theory that SUPPORT for extremism in Islam is at all rare:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

I do think the numbers of actual active terrorists are indeed small.

Thats really disturbing

But on a brighter note,

I was just watching DW after my hike. I think I just heard a Qatar emissary say 2 things

1) The Arab world needs to come to some peace with Israel

(and find a long lasting solution with the Palestinians)

2) Syria has always been known to be a source for terrorism in the region and the world.

Can someone verify PLEASE?

Maybe i need to lay off the Chang beer

or maybe, just MAYBE i'll see some progress in my lifetime!

[BookMan]

In all probability the vast majority of the Muslim community know absolutely nothing of what goes on within the terrorist community. They have no knowledge of it, don't agree with it and would never support it. In fact they are just the same as other members of the population.

Depends on how you define vast majority.

You might want to rethink the theory that SUPPORT for extremism in Islam is at all rare:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

I do think the numbers of actual active terrorists are indeed small.

INteresting link

[Steely Dan]

Folium wrote

What the Muslim community of Boston was fearing was a backlash of anti-Muslim sentiment if the bombers proved to be co-religionists. It had nothing to do with Muslims being cowed and weak in the face of Muslim extremists, quite the opposite. What they feared were bigoted numb nuts like the jerks who abused and assaulted Sikh cabbies in NYC after September 11th.

Or more likely to play the victim card to deflect attention away from and to not take responsibility for radicalization going on in their midst, Incidentally hate crimes against Muslims are lower than those against black, gays or Jews.

In the case of a Muslim family, who say run something like the local 7/11 store and have done so all their life. They don't know any terrorists. How do you suggest that they fulfill their responsibilities ? In what way are they playing the victim card ?

Aside from those who regularly attend mosque or are members of organizations purporting to represent the Muslim community nothing whatsoever should be done. For those who are members of mosques I would have thought that not allowing the spread of hatred or advocating actions contrary to the law would be a start. Not contributing money to any group known to be involved in illegal activities would likewise be helpful. Above all, if any have information or suspicions of individuals conspiring to commit acts of violence report them to the FBI. In other words don't listen to CAIR, who have members previously indited for funding terrorist groups, when they advise non-cooperation with the FBI. The elder brother was interviewed by the FBI in 2010, it is impossible to know, but if somebody had evidence at that time and came forward with it lives might have been saved.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Steely Dan

[Steely Dan]

Here is an interview with someone who knew the family, I think it gives some useful insights.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/04/20/know-boston-bombers/

[geriatrickid]

Where did the killers get their automatic weapons and munitions?

Interesting that many of the Senators (e.g. Graham) who led the fight against regulating automatic weapons defeating the legislation haven't made one comment on the killers use of automatic weapons and munitions that would have come under the legislation.

Anyone see any comments as to where the boys so easily procured their tools of terror?

[geriatrickid]

In all probability the vast majority of the Muslim community know absolutely nothing of what goes on within the terrorist community. They have no knowledge of it, don't agree with it and would never support it. In fact they are just the same as other members of the population.

Depends on how you define vast majority.

You might want to rethink the theory that SUPPORT for extremism in Islam is at all rare:

http://www.pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

I do think the numbers of actual active terrorists are indeed small.

Jingles, most of us do not live in Lebanon. I think the information would be more relevant if the countries surveyed were the UK, Australia, USA etc.

I want to have some reliable info before I embark on a pogrom.

Thanks.

[Jingthing]

Jingles, most of us do not live in Lebanon. I think the information would be more relevant if the countries surveyed were the UK, Australia, USA etc.

I want to have some reliable info before I embark on a pogrom.

Thanks.

Who is Jingles?

Anyway, getting back closer to the topic we know the terrorist's Mother believed that the U.S. government was behind 911, not Muslim people, and she said she got that brilliant theory from her son. This twisted obviously false conspiracy theory is widely believed in the greater Muslim world.

The original assertion that I was countering with some EVIDENCE instead of random gut feelings was about Muslims in the world in general, not in any particular country.

Your pogrom comment is simply loaded. Who is talking about pogroms? Indeed as is well known hate crimes against Muslims in the US are a minor problem compared to hate crimes against Jews, gays, and black people.

http://www.people-press.org/2011/08/30/muslim-americans-no-signs-of-growth-in-alienation-or-support-for-extremism/

This shows possible acceptance of terrorist acts is indeed much lower among U.S. Muslims that those other countries mentioned before:

Edited April 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

Haha, if I was Muslim, in the US and some anonymous poll called and asked me I felt suicide bombing was justified or appropriate, I know what I would say.

That's actually a very good point.

Reports are out now that white hat boy was actually partying (getting high, not sure pot or booze, not exactly a super religious Muslim this guy) with his buddies the day after the bombing as if nothing had happened. This was after he clearly knew he had murdered a little boy. Those kinds of details are not going to help his defense against the death penalty. Also as they possessed additional bombs, it seems they actually thought they would get away with it and were planning to do at least one more terror bombing.

I heard, but without follow up confirmation or etc., that 2 guys and 1 girl that were friends or room mates were picked up and in custody at one point. Wonder if these were the people with whom he was out partying. Celebratory in nature??? I have to think more knew than just the two, but maybe not. Kids just have a hard time not telling someone. Edited April 21, 2013 by F430murci

[Jingthing]

I heard, but without follow up confirmation or etc., that 2 guys and 2 girl that were friends or room mates were picked up and in custody at one point. Wonder if these were the people with whom he was out partying. Celebratory in nature??? I have to think more knew than just the two, but maybe not. Kids just have a hard time not telling someone.

Yes there were some arrests and there were some immigration related charges made against those young people BUT there was no link found to the terror events with those people. However one of them rather ironically was sporting a vanity license plate frame with this word: TERRORISTA. Too funny. I am not clear how serious the immigration issues were as far as potential deportations though.

Edited April 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[F430murci]

I was trying to listen to Lyndsay Graham on this subject. For christs sake is he retarded or just on drugs. How can anyone take such a guy seriously much less vote for him. I don't disagree with his main point to treat dudes as combatants, I am just shocked as to how he sounds and talks.

Edited April 21, 2013 by F430murci

[Jingthing]

Boston authorities are now stating the two perps acted alone. There is disagreement on whether they were actually planning another attack even though it is known they had more bombs. White hat suspect still not well enough to be questioned.

OK, now my question is even if Tamerlan was cleared by the FBI in 2011 based on reports from Russia why didn't they immediately go after him anyway after the attack? Also once they had the pictures, couldn't they have identified Tamerlan from those pictures?

Edited April 21, 2013 by Jingthing

[NeverSure]

I want to hear what the feds have to say about this "acted alone" part, after a thorough investigation. How can Boston authorities know that already? One perp is dead and the other has severe injuries including to the throat. I suspect he is heavily sedated in addition to the throat injuries and can't talk. Even if he can, would he tell the truth?

I have to throw the BS flag on the Boston Authorities. There's no way they can know that yet.

My hunch is that they had a lot of help and encouragement. Their equipment acquisition alone would have been difficult. That's too much gun powder to just waltz into some store and purchase. The older brother made a trip to Russia to a known hub of terrorists and spent significant time there.

I could go on, but I'm not buying it yet, and I think if "Boston Authorities" said that, they are talking out of the wrong end of their bodies, and doing it too soon.

[Jingthing]

They likely have strong evidence about it and are probably backed up by the feds. Given that, I reckon the idea is to calm down the people. Nobody is claiming 100 percent certainty at this point.

[Jingthing]

I tend to think they were an isolated cell. But that points out there are probably other such self radicalized people and cells as there is an endless source of internet based Jihadist inspiration and bomb making pointers.

[F430murci]

I tend to think they were an isolated cell. But that points out there are probably other such self radicalized people and cells as there is an endless source of internet based Jihadist inspiration and bomb making pointers.

I would tend to believe when he was in Russia the people he spent time with would have said to have zero contact, but I bet this was planned out during that trip. What the young guy knows is anyone's guess. I bet he was pretty clueless as he may have been more probe to rub his mouth while partying. Maybe not. Haha, who knows, but fun to guess . . . Although some of the stuff I mentioned before about older dude have pretty solid sources and are starting to filter out. The young guy will not be talking for some period of time due to neck injury and intubation.

[lomatopo]

I tend to think they were an isolated cell. But that points out there are probably other such self radicalized people and cells as there is an endless source of internet based Jihadist inspiration and bomb making pointers.

I would tend to believe when he was in Russia the people he spent time with would have said to have zero contact, but I bet this was planned out during that trip. What the young guy knows is anyone's guess. I bet he was pretty clueless as he may have been more probe to rub his mouth while partying. Maybe not. Haha, who knows, but fun to guess . . . Although some of the stuff I mentioned before about older dude have pretty solid sources and are starting to filter out. The young guy will not be talking for some period of time due to neck injury and intubation.

Some reports in the press indicate that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is responding to questions by communicating in writing. Also, the neck wound appears to have been self-inflicted so maybe he did think about killing himself?

[Ulysses G.]

Who would shoot themselves in the neck to commit suicide?

Edited April 21, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[F430murci]

I tend to think they were an isolated cell. But that points out there are probably other such self radicalized people and cells as there is an endless source of internet based Jihadist inspiration and bomb making pointers.

I would tend to believe when he was in Russia the people he spent time with would have said to have zero contact, but I bet this was planned out during that trip. What the young guy knows is anyone's guess. I bet he was pretty clueless as he may have been more probe to rub his mouth while partying. Maybe not. Haha, who knows, but fun to guess . . . Although some of the stuff I mentioned before about older dude have pretty solid sources and are starting to filter out. The young guy will not be talking for some period of time due to neck injury and intubation.

Some reports in the press indicate that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is responding to questions by communicating in writing. Also, the neck wound appears to have been self-inflicted so maybe he did think about killing himself?

Yep, I posted 30 plus hours ago that the neck wound may be an exit wound from failed suicide.

I agree he could write while intubated. The question is how sedated he is. The press is perhaps just speculating that he could still potentially write. I don't think we are going to hear about any that until he is interrogated and they charge him.

Edited April 22, 2013 by F430murci