Gun Vote " Shameful Day," Obama Says

[NeverSure]

neversure:

With very few exceptions, handguns are wimpy compared to any center fire rifle. There are some sayings about that.

Firearms trainer Clint Smith’s axiom: “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.”

Also, a handgun is for an expert who can operate through his adrenaline. It is very, very hard for most people to be accurate with a handgun. Now a rifle or shotgun, you can point instinctively just looking down the barrel, and it is more steady.

The reason police and civilians carry handguns is for convenience. You can't really go about your day carrying a rifle, so the pistol is the best you can do and is much better than nothing.

I'm satisfied that my .38 would do the job where I want it to, in the home. I'm accurate with it too, as I said earlier. A shotgun or rifle may be bought some time for dogs. I don't expect to have to use a gun away from home and feel sympathy for those who live in an environment where they think that might happen to them.

Well then you don't live in Thailand. I posted a link and a chart twice which shows that Thailand has more than ten times the number of gun murders per capita as the US. I have never heard anyone deny that Thailand is dangerous in several areas including murders, highways, and nefarious acts of other types. It's in the news and on this forum constantly. Yet the gun laws are very strict in Thailand, and it hasn't done a thing to change the culture.

I am much safer in the US, especially since I'm allowed to defend myself.

[NeverSure]

I take great offense at the snide remarks made about people are the left. I am pretty far to the left as are most of my family and a lot of my friends. I don't own a gun and never kept one in the house (except for a short period of time). Most of my family and friends are gun owners.

Reasonable controls on ownership are fine with me, but like most of the far right, I am skeptical (as are a lot of other left leaning people) about giving up too much of our rights.

I belong to an organization in the US that fought this Senate bill hard. It isn't the NRA, but is rather an area of the US. There are forums, and one hard fast rule is no discussion of politics unless it's gun related. The reason is that about half of the members are gun owning liberals. We disagree on a lot, but not about guns. So we are united on the one issue and that's enough.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I've made a lot of good friends on there.

This is something that foreigners often don't understand. You don't have to be "Republican" or "far right" to be a gun supporter. People presume that the left is anti gun, and therefore assume that a "majority" of US citizens would be for something they aren't.

It is only a small fringe that is anti gun, and this is what left people stunned. They don't know that.

[Morden]

neversure:

With very few exceptions, handguns are wimpy compared to any center fire rifle. There are some sayings about that.

Firearms trainer Clint Smith’s axiom: “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.”

Also, a handgun is for an expert who can operate through his adrenaline. It is very, very hard for most people to be accurate with a handgun. Now a rifle or shotgun, you can point instinctively just looking down the barrel, and it is more steady.

The reason police and civilians carry handguns is for convenience. You can't really go about your day carrying a rifle, so the pistol is the best you can do and is much better than nothing.

I'm satisfied that my .38 would do the job where I want it to, in the home. I'm accurate with it too, as I said earlier. A shotgun or rifle may be bought some time for dogs. I don't expect to have to use a gun away from home and feel sympathy for those who live in an environment where they think that might happen to them.

Well then you don't live in Thailand. I posted a link and a chart twice which shows that Thailand has more than ten times the number of gun murders per capita as the US. I have never heard anyone deny that Thailand is dangerous in several areas including murders, highways, and nefarious acts of other types. It's in the news and on this forum constantly. Yet the gun laws are very strict in Thailand, and it hasn't done a thing to change the culture.

I am much safer in the US, especially since I'm allowed to defend myself.

I do live in Thailand and have never seen or felt the need to carry a gun or own a rapid fire, big magazine one.

The issue, just to remind you again, is gun massacres in the US. Thailand is not troubled by school and cinema massacres.

According to the various arguments in favour of walking around like cowboy gun slinger, you aren't safe in the US. Carrying a gun under your coat is no guarantee that either you won't be shot or that you might shoot an innocent person by mistake. What a crazy way to have to live your life.

[Morden]

I take great offense at the snide remarks made about people are the left. I am pretty far to the left as are most of my family and a lot of my friends. I don't own a gun and never kept one in the house (except for a short period of time). Most of my family and friends are gun owners.

Reasonable controls on ownership are fine with me, but like most of the far right, I am skeptical (as are a lot of other left leaning people) about giving up too much of our rights.

I belong to an organization in the US that fought this Senate bill hard. It isn't the NRA, but is rather an area of the US. There are forums, and one hard fast rule is no discussion of politics unless it's gun related. The reason is that about half of the members are gun owning liberals. We disagree on a lot, but not about guns. So we are united on the one issue and that's enough.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend." I've made a lot of good friends on there.

This is something that foreigners often don't understand. You don't have to be "Republican" or "far right" to be a gun supporter. People presume that the left is anti gun, and therefore assume that a "majority" of US citizens would be for something they aren't.

It is only a small fringe that is anti gun, and this is what left people stunned. They don't know that.

I suspect that more non-US citizens realise that this is not a left v right issue than do US citizens.

Small fringe? I haven't seen any anti-gun arguments.

[SteeleJoe]

The issue, just to remind you again, is gun massacres in the US.

Says who?

I desperately wish that we could do something to stop or reduce such events. I was and am profoundly affected by Newtown. But you do realize that the odds of a child being killed in such an event are minuscule? That other gun crimes and other deaths from firearms (including the death of children) are far, far wider in variety and of far, far greater prevalence? It is not only ridiculous but morally wrong to limit the concern to that one narrow issue just because it's so shocking and sensational.

The issue is extremely complex as are my feelings about it (not anti-gun, a gun owner who wants greater control) and this attempt to oversimplify it by both sides gets us nowhere - indeed it impedes progress or any hope of compromise.

By the way, Thailand is troubled by school shootings.

Edited April 26, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[NeverSure]

neversure:

With very few exceptions, handguns are wimpy compared to any center fire rifle. There are some sayings about that.

Firearms trainer Clint Smith’s axiom: “The only purpose for a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should have never laid down.”

Also, a handgun is for an expert who can operate through his adrenaline. It is very, very hard for most people to be accurate with a handgun. Now a rifle or shotgun, you can point instinctively just looking down the barrel, and it is more steady.

The reason police and civilians carry handguns is for convenience. You can't really go about your day carrying a rifle, so the pistol is the best you can do and is much better than nothing.

I'm satisfied that my .38 would do the job where I want it to, in the home. I'm accurate with it too, as I said earlier. A shotgun or rifle may be bought some time for dogs. I don't expect to have to use a gun away from home and feel sympathy for those who live in an environment where they think that might happen to them.

Well then you don't live in Thailand. I posted a link and a chart twice which shows that Thailand has more than ten times the number of gun murders per capita as the US. I have never heard anyone deny that Thailand is dangerous in several areas including murders, highways, and nefarious acts of other types. It's in the news and on this forum constantly. Yet the gun laws are very strict in Thailand, and it hasn't done a thing to change the culture.

I am much safer in the US, especially since I'm allowed to defend myself.

I do live in Thailand and have never seen or felt the need to carry a gun or own a rapid fire, big magazine one.

The issue, just to remind you again, is gun massacres in the US. Thailand is not troubled by school and cinema massacres.

According to the various arguments in favour of walking around like cowboy gun slinger, you aren't safe in the US. Carrying a gun under your coat is no guarantee that either you won't be shot or that you might shoot an innocent person by mistake. What a crazy way to have to live your life.

Yes, Thailand has school shootings. You are emotionally driven, not fact driven. I have posted enough charts to show it, quoted authorities to prove it, but the statistical safety in the US doesn't fit in with your emotions so it isn't true.

I have never felt threatened in the US, anywhere. I carry a gun and a spare tire, and have fire insurance on my house. I have a lot of other insurance I don't really expect to need.

D@mmit, the gun isn't because I don't feel safe. It's about FREEDOM.

[DocN]

...why is it called "amendment"...?

[FDog]

Are Americans really that afraid of their own government that they use that as an excuse to want guns? REALLY?

I guess the so called freedom to own guns outweighs the deaths of many many innocent people. I'm sure glad I don't live in that kind of unthinking society and I certainly would never visit a place where people thought it necessary to own guns.

Edited April 26, 2013 by FDog

[Morden]

The issue, just to remind you again, is gun massacres in the US.

Says who?

I desperately wish that we could do something to stop or reduce such events. I was and am profoundly affected by Newtown. But you do realize that the odds of a child being killed in such an event are minuscule? That other gun crimes and other deaths from firearms (including the death of children) are far, far wider in variety and of far, far greater prevalence? It is not only ridiculous but morally wrong to limit the concern to that one narrow issue just because it's so shocking and sensational.

The issue is extremely complex as are my feelings about it (not anti-gun, a gun owner who wants greater control) and this attempt to oversimplify it by both sides gets us nowhere - indeed it impedes progress or any hope of compromise.

By the way, Thailand is troubled by school shootings.

Says who? The OP, that's who.

I am aware, of course, that there are other gun crimes. My comments are based on the OP but the wider issue of gun crime is a symptom of a very sick society and I doubt whether any generally acceptable cure will be found. It certainly is a very complex subject in the US but it needn't be.

There are school gang members in Thailand who attack one another but I don't know of any massacres where very young school children have been ripped apart by up to eleven bullets.

[Morden]

neversure:

Yes, Thailand has school shootings. You are emotionally driven, not fact driven. I have posted enough charts to show it, quoted authorities to prove it, but the statistical safety in the US doesn't fit in with your emotions so it isn't true.

I have never felt threatened in the US, anywhere. I carry a gun and a spare tire, and have fire insurance on my house. I have a lot of other insurance I don't really expect to need.

D@mmit, the gun isn't because I don't feel safe. It's about FREEDOM.

With the exception of carrying a gun, they are wise and normal precautions. Feeling the need to carry a gun isn't 'freedom'. It's just the opposite. I enjoy the freedom to go about my business without the need to tuck a shooter up my armpit. I'm sorry for you that you don't have that freedom.

[SteeleJoe]

Says who? The OP, that's who.

I am aware, of course, that there are other gun crimes. My comments are based on the OP but the wider issue of gun crime is a symptom of a very sick society and I doubt whether any generally acceptable cure will be found. It certainly is a very complex subject in the US but it needn't be.

There are school gang members in Thailand who attack one another but I don't know of any massacres where very young school children have been ripped apart by up to eleven bullets.

No, the OP doesn't say that. And I don't believe you will find many people - including policy makers or activists - who would argue that the issue is school massacres as opposed to gun control in general. And if you don't think it is inherently a complex problem you are frankly, in my opinion, either ignoring many aspects of it or ignorant of them.

No, there have not been any massacres here. Just as in all but a very tiny percentage of US schools there haven't been any. Why have there been some in the US and none here or many other places? That's something that Americans need to be asking. I submit it's by no means entirely - if much at all - due to a difference in relative availability of firearms.(No, this is not the idiotic "guns don't kill people" argument.)

Edited April 26, 2013 by SteeleJoe

[NeverSure]

Are Americans really that afraid of their own government that they use that as an excuse to want guns? REALLY?

I guess the so called freedom to own guns outweighs the deaths of many many innocent people. I'm sure glad I don't live in that kind of unthinking society and I certainly would never visit a place where people thought it necessary to own guns.

"Are Americans really that afraid of their own government..."

Not today. But what about 100 years from now, or even 30? See my next post. Yes they were then.

"...and I certainly would never visit a place where people thought it necessary to own guns."

That fits right in with my plans.

[NeverSure]

...why is it called "amendment"...?

Doc, the US formed slowly. The first settlers from Europe arrived in 1620 aboard a ship called The Mayflower. They are called The Pilgrims and they were 102 in number, and they were British. They landed in what we call the NE US now, at a place called Plymouth Rock and the built a settlement.

The US didn't officially become a country until perhaps 1776 when there were then 13 colonies who met and signed the Declaration of Independence from the then ruler, the King of England. I say perhaps, because some say it wasn't complete until 1786 at a signing in Paris where the King agreed the US was independent. Of course there was the Revolutionary War against the King as a result of that Declaration of Independence.

When the dust settled, the new country wrote, and all the colonies signed a Constitution in 1789, creating the United States.

But some of the colonies were nervous about the constitution. Roughly put, they didn't trust the new federal government to assure their individual rights, or the rights of the separate colonies. So there were soon some amendments made to the constitution to make all of the colonies comfortable with it.

Those amendments were done at once as a whole, and there are 10 of them. Each one takes power away from the federal government, and gives it to the colonies, now called the states, or to the individual people. Together these 10 amendments are called The Bill of Rights. They are the rights of the people.

The first amendment guarantees freedom of and from religion, the freedom of the press, and the freedom of speech.

The second is the one about the right to keep and bear arms. This is what we call the Second Amendment, or 2A, but it's why we can own guns.

The tenth one simply reiterates the purpose of the first nine, hammering home to the federal government that its powers are limited.

The short read of the transcript is here.

The US is not a democracy. It is a republic of states. Each state, regardless of population, gets 2 senators for a total of 100 senators. So the small population states have as much say in The Senate as the big population states. This gives the rural people almost as much say as the people in downtown New York, NY. This was set up by design by the original colonies who didn't want to be ruled by the biggest colony, or by the new federal government.

And so it is.

[DocN]

...why is it called "amendment"...?

Doc, the US formed slowly. The first settlers from Europe arrived in 1620 aboard a ship called The Mayflower. They are called The Pilgrims and they were 102 in number, and they were British. They landed in what we call the NE US now, at a place called Plymouth Rock and the built a settlement.

The US didn't officially become a country until perhaps 1776 when there were then 13 colonies who met and signed the Declaration of Independence from the then ruler, the King of England. I say perhaps, because some say it wasn't complete until 1786 at a signing in Paris where the King agreed the US was independent. Of course there was the Revolutionary War against the King as a result of that Declaration of Independence.

When the dust settled, the new country wrote, and all the colonies signed a Constitution in 1789, creating the United States.

But some of the colonies were nervous about the constitution. Roughly put, they didn't trust the new federal government to assure their individual rights, or the rights of the separate colonies. So there were soon some amendments made to the constitution to make all of the colonies comfortable with it.

Those amendments were done at once as a whole, and there are 10 of them. Each one takes power away from the federal government, and gives it to the colonies, now called the states, or to the individual people. Together these 10 amendments are called The Bill of Rights. They are the rights of the people.

The first amendment guarantees freedom of and from religion, the freedom of the press, and the freedom of speech.

The second is the one about the right to keep and bear arms. This is what we call the Second Amendment, or 2A, but it's why we can own guns.

The tenth one simply reiterates the purpose of the first nine, hammering home to the federal government that its powers are limited.

The short read of the transcript is here.

The US is not a democracy. It is a republic of states. Each state, regardless of population, gets 2 senators for a total of 100 senators. So the small population states have as much say in The Senate as the big population states. This gives the rural people almost as much say as the people in downtown New York, NY. This was set up by design by the original colonies who didn't want to be ruled by the biggest colony, or by the new federal government.

And so it is.

All fine...but you understand, why I asked, right?!

It is not "god given" and it is not "written in stone".

It was amended before, it can be amended again.

[Credo]

Are Americans really that afraid of their own government that they use that as an excuse to want guns? REALLY?

No, I am not afraid of this gov't, but the last one was really pretty scary and the next one might not be so good either.

As I said, I don't own a gun, but everyone around me did. I didn't let my kids have one, but they did go target shooting with a very responsible neighbor and they enjoyed hunting--something they didn't get from me.

I am all for responsible gun control, but I just don't trust a bunch of lawyers not to start pulling stuff--and most of Congress is made up of lawyers.

It is a complex issue and the US is not at a point in time where giving up guns is a realistic endeavor for a lot of reasons.

[chuckd]

...why is it called "amendment"...?

Doc, the US formed slowly. The first settlers from Europe arrived in 1620 aboard a ship called The Mayflower. They are called The Pilgrims and they were 102 in number, and they were British. They landed in what we call the NE US now, at a place called Plymouth Rock and the built a settlement.

The US didn't officially become a country until perhaps 1776 when there were then 13 colonies who met and signed the Declaration of Independence from the then ruler, the King of England. I say perhaps, because some say it wasn't complete until 1786 at a signing in Paris where the King agreed the US was independent. Of course there was the Revolutionary War against the King as a result of that Declaration of Independence.

When the dust settled, the new country wrote, and all the colonies signed a Constitution in 1789, creating the United States.

But some of the colonies were nervous about the constitution. Roughly put, they didn't trust the new federal government to assure their individual rights, or the rights of the separate colonies. So there were soon some amendments made to the constitution to make all of the colonies comfortable with it.

Those amendments were done at once as a whole, and there are 10 of them. Each one takes power away from the federal government, and gives it to the colonies, now called the states, or to the individual people. Together these 10 amendments are called The Bill of Rights. They are the rights of the people.

The first amendment guarantees freedom of and from religion, the freedom of the press, and the freedom of speech.

The second is the one about the right to keep and bear arms. This is what we call the Second Amendment, or 2A, but it's why we can own guns.

The tenth one simply reiterates the purpose of the first nine, hammering home to the federal government that its powers are limited.

The short read of the transcript is here.

The US is not a democracy. It is a republic of states. Each state, regardless of population, gets 2 senators for a total of 100 senators. So the small population states have as much say in The Senate as the big population states. This gives the rural people almost as much say as the people in downtown New York, NY. This was set up by design by the original colonies who didn't want to be ruled by the biggest colony, or by the new federal government.

And so it is.

All fine...but you understand, why I asked, right?!

It is not "god given" and it is not "written in stone".

It was amended before, it can be amended again.

Yes, it can be amended. Here are a couple of links to the process. When you are ready to make a constitutional amendment following this procedure, please let us know.

Thank you.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/constitution/

http://www.usconstitution.net/constam.html

[JDGRUEN]

...why is it called "amendment"...?

Doc, the US formed slowly. The first settlers from Europe arrived in 1620 aboard a ship called The Mayflower. They are called The Pilgrims and they were 102 in number, and they were British. They landed in what we call the NE US now, at a place called Plymouth Rock and the built a settlement.

The US didn't officially become a country until perhaps 1776 when there were then 13 colonies who met and signed the Declaration of Independence from the then ruler, the King of England. I say perhaps, because some say it wasn't complete until 1786 at a signing in Paris where the King agreed the US was independent. Of course there was the Revolutionary War against the King as a result of that Declaration of Independence.

When the dust settled, the new country wrote, and all the colonies signed a Constitution in 1789, creating the United States.

But some of the colonies were nervous about the constitution. Roughly put, they didn't trust the new federal government to assure their individual rights, or the rights of the separate colonies. So there were soon some amendments made to the constitution to make all of the colonies comfortable with it.

Those amendments were done at once as a whole, and there are 10 of them. Each one takes power away from the federal government, and gives it to the colonies, now called the states, or to the individual people. Together these 10 amendments are called The Bill of Rights. They are the rights of the people.

The first amendment guarantees freedom of and from religion, the freedom of the press, and the freedom of speech.

The second is the one about the right to keep and bear arms. This is what we call the Second Amendment, or 2A, but it's why we can own guns.

The tenth one simply reiterates the purpose of the first nine, hammering home to the federal government that its powers are limited.

The short read of the transcript is here.

The US is not a democracy. It is a republic of states. Each state, regardless of population, gets 2 senators for a total of 100 senators. So the small population states have as much say in The Senate as the big population states. This gives the rural people almost as much say as the people in downtown New York, NY. This was set up by design by the original colonies who didn't want to be ruled by the biggest colony, or by the new federal government.

And so it is.

Excellent Synopsis ...

[Scott]

A post with out crediting a source has been removed along with replies.

An off-topic post has been deleted.

Continued off-topic, baiting posts will result in suspensions.

Edited April 27, 2013 by Scott

[JDGRUEN]

The Monster that never dies... I believe it is possible that events will over take this try for a second vote ... Mainly the 2104 elections will be much closer later in the year and will be too much risk for vulnerable Senators... Plus the House of Representatives will certainly be worried about the elections. But this article does show that obama is manic about pushing it behind the scenes - probably on the phone wit Senator Schumer every other day.

Senators ...MCCAIN, SCHUMER SAY GUN CONTROL WILL GET ANOTHER VOTE THIS YEAR

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/04/25/Sens-McCain-Schumer-Say-Gun-Control-Will-Get-Another-Vote-This-Year

[rbrooks]

Guns do not kill people. People kill people with whatever they have at hand, guns, knives, explosives, poison, words, etc., etc.

Bombs don't kill people, people do..right?

absolutely correct just a different form of weapon, I just left that one out and thanks for reminding me.

[JDGRUEN]

Guns do not kill people. People kill people with whatever they have at hand, guns, knives, explosives, poison, words, etc., etc.

Bombs don't kill people, people do..right?

absolutely correct just a different form of weapon, I just left that one out and thanks for reminding me.

Yes - People ... People make and place bombs, people hold and shoot guns, people wield knives, people choose and place poison, people kick people to death with their feet, people purposely run people over with their car. When a drunk kills a person with a car - we blame the drunk - not the car, when terrorist place bombs we blame the terrorist, when a person shoots someone with a gun - certain parts of society place the blame on the gun ... really now? How's that?

[F430murci]

Guns do not kill people. People kill people with whatever they have at hand, guns, knives, explosives, poison, words, etc., etc.

Bombs don't kill people, people do..right?

absolutely correct just a different form of weapon, I just left that one out and thanks for reminding me.

Yes - People ... People make and place bombs, people hold and shoot guns, people wield knives, people choose and place poison, people kick people to death with their feet, people purposely run people over with their car. When a drunk kills a person with a car - we blame the drunk - not the car, when terrorist place bombs we blame the terrorist, when a person shoots someone with a gun - certain parts of society place the blame on the gun ... really now? How's that?

True, but can't run down to Walmart to purchase a pipe bomb even though they are great for red neck fishing.

[Guest]

Yes - People ... People make and place bombs, people hold and shoot guns, people wield knives, people choose and place poison, people kick people to death with their feet, people purposely run people over with their car. When a drunk kills a person with a car - we blame the drunk - not the car, when terrorist place bombs we blame the terrorist, when a person shoots someone with a gun - certain parts of society place the blame on the gun ... really now? How's that?

So basically everybody should be allowed to make and buy bombs as they wish? Or should that be regulated somehow? Now where did put my Pu-293 and Li-6?

[FDog]

Are Americans really that afraid of their own government that they use that as an excuse to want guns? REALLY?

No, I am not afraid of this gov't, but the last one was really pretty scary and the next one might not be so good either.

As I said, I don't own a gun, but everyone around me did. I didn't let my kids have one, but they did go target shooting with a very responsible neighbor and they enjoyed hunting--something they didn't get from me.

I am all for responsible gun control, but I just don't trust a bunch of lawyers not to start pulling stuff--and most of Congress is made up of lawyers.

It is a complex issue and the US is not at a point in time where giving up guns is a realistic endeavor for a lot of reasons.

Totally agree with you about the previous govt, the whole world knows GWB was a fruitcake.

Also agree that hunting can be fun, nothing wrong with that.

There is of course a time and a place to have a gun, out hunting etc is just one of those times.

But to say that you carry a gun with you (not you personally) because you are afraid of the govt is just a bit too far fetched for me.

I certainly would not be staying in a bar that was frequented by people that were carrying a gun. I guess that is just the way people in my country were brought up. We think only really odd people carry a gun when going out.

[F430murci]

Yes - People ... People make and place bombs, people hold and shoot guns, people wield knives, people choose and place poison, people kick people to death with their feet, people purposely run people over with their car. When a drunk kills a person with a car - we blame the drunk - not the car, when terrorist place bombs we blame the terrorist, when a person shoots someone with a gun - certain parts of society place the blame on the gun ... really now? How's that?

So basically everybody should be allowed to make and buy bombs as they wish? Or should that be regulated somehow? Now where did put my Pu-293 and Li-6?

He'll yeah. For use when government tries to take over. The bomb and pistol is to give you enough time to get to your rifle.

[JDGRUEN]

Are Americans really that afraid of their own government that they use that as an excuse to want guns? REALLY?

I guess the so called freedom to own guns outweighs the deaths of many many innocent people. I'm sure glad I don't live in that kind of unthinking society and I certainly would never visit a place where people thought it necessary to own guns.

Maybe, just maybe, the US will be able to muddle along for another 237 years without your presence.

It certainly doesn't even seem to be muddling along. To the rest of the world it is going backwards. But if you think that as you have your freedom to kill innocents just so people can carry guns to feel safe is progressive then even with my intervention you have no hope.

No one has freedom to kill anyone in the U.S.... What an absurd statement you make! Over the past decade or more the few mass shootings in America have been done by mentally disturbed people (who were diagnosed as having serious mental health issues (prone to violence) PRIOR to incident. Most often fueled by violent movies and video games, these nut cases managed to get a gun mostly by circumventing the law ... then acted out their violent delusions and fantasies. Next, the politically correct segment of our society - who fights against committing and confining (institutionalizing) these nut cases - act shocked and surprised. You know, if you as a non American are going to criticize our laws and culture - then how about using a little perspective. Get a grip on reality and take a look at the real problem instead of emotionally thrashing about and talking nonsense.

[FDog]

Are Americans really that afraid of their own government that they use that as an excuse to want guns? REALLY?

I guess the so called freedom to own guns outweighs the deaths of many many innocent people. I'm sure glad I don't live in that kind of unthinking society and I certainly would never visit a place where people thought it necessary to own guns.

Maybe, just maybe, the US will be able to muddle along for another 237 years without your presence.

It certainly doesn't even seem to be muddling along. To the rest of the world it is going backwards. But if you think that as you have your freedom to kill innocents just so people can carry guns to feel safe is progressive then even with my intervention you have no hope.

No one has freedom to kill anyone in the U.S.... What an absurd statement you make! Over the past decade or more the few mass shootings in America have been done by mentally disturbed people (who were diagnosed as having serious mental health issues (prone to violence) PRIOR to incident. Most often fueled by violent movies and video games, these nut cases managed to get a gun mostly by circumventing the law ... then acted out their violent delusions and fantasies. Next, the politically correct segment of our society - who fights against committing and confining (institutionalizing) these nut cases - act shocked and surprised. You know, if you as a non American are going to criticize our laws and culture - then how about using a little perspective. Get a grip on reality and take a look at the real problem instead of emotionally thrashing about and talking nonsense.

People thinking guns are not a 'real' problem is the problem.

[Jingthing]

Every country has their totally out of bounds INSANE aspects that most natives are sadly totally blind about. The way Americans treat "freedom" to own guns is one of America's insanities.

[JDGRUEN]

No one has freedom to kill anyone in the U.S.... What an absurd statement you make! Over the past decade or more the few mass shootings in America have been done by mentally disturbed people (who were diagnosed as having serious mental health issues (prone to violence) PRIOR to incident. Most often fueled by violent movies and video games, these nut cases managed to get a gun mostly by circumventing the law ... then acted out their violent delusions and fantasies. Next, the politically correct segment of our society - who fights against committing and confining (institutionalizing) these nut cases - act shocked and surprised. You know, if you as a non American are going to criticize our laws and culture - then how about using a little perspective. Get a grip on reality and take a look at the real problem instead of emotionally thrashing about and talking nonsense.

People thinking guns are not a 'real' problem is the problem.

For 99.99999 percent of the up to 100 million law abiding gun owners in American who own up to 300 million guns - their possession and use of guns is not a problem to anyone.

[Jingthing]

No one has freedom to kill anyone in the U.S.... What an absurd statement you make! Over the past decade or more the few mass shootings in America have been done by mentally disturbed people (who were diagnosed as having serious mental health issues (prone to violence) PRIOR to incident. Most often fueled by violent movies and video games, these nut cases managed to get a gun mostly by circumventing the law ... then acted out their violent delusions and fantasies. Next, the politically correct segment of our society - who fights against committing and confining (institutionalizing) these nut cases - act shocked and surprised. You know, if you as a non American are going to criticize our laws and culture - then how about using a little perspective. Get a grip on reality and take a look at the real problem instead of emotionally thrashing about and talking nonsense.

People thinking guns are not a 'real' problem is the problem.

For 99.99999 percent of the up to 100 million law abiding gun owners in American who own up to 300 million guns - their possession and use of guns is not a problem to anyone.

Tell that to the gun violence victims.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html