Chiang Doe Elephant Camp.

[pgthompson]

Any feedback on this place or other recommendations for places to ride elephants and bamboo rafting.

[rawhod]

This was included in my "Thailand Tour" in 2008 (I now live here)

We did the elephant ride and the bamboo rafting at Chiang Dao...enjoyed it.

Edited April 18, 2013 by rawhod

[bobl]

Chiang Dao is good if you also want to visit the cave.

Otherwise Maetaman is much closer. Zipline, bamboo rafting, atv rides up to the waterfall, dingy rides, elephants... pm me if you want more details...

[Nienke]

Elephant Nature Camp is a very worthy place to visit: http://www.elephantnaturepark.org/

Before riding an elephant, please, consider first the history of the animal; where it came from and how it was 'trained':

Would you like to contribute to that?

[circusman]

Breaking the elephants spirit is the only way to make them useful to man. There is no way to train them without cruel methods. Treats and and nice words do not work. Sadly, I see no change in this system coming anytime soon.

[wolf5370]

Breaking the elephants spirit is the only way to make them useful to man. There is no way to train them without cruel methods. Treats and and nice words do not work. Sadly, I see no change in this system coming anytime soon.

This is true - but with logging a thing of the past - without elephant camps receiving tourist visits (and including rides and tamed animals), then the animals would simply be butchered for meat and ivory and Chinese medicine. Not sure which is better

[Johpa]

Breaking the elephants spirit is the only way to make them useful to man. There is no way to train them without cruel methods. Treats and and nice words do not work. Sadly, I see no change in this system coming anytime soon.

When you train your puppy not to defecate in the house you dare not use your full physical force to make your point but you inevitably use some force to demonstrate your resolve and dominance on the subject. With elephants, your full physical force is not nearly sufficient to demonstrate your resolve and thus you must find some method to amplify that force, and thus the method is perceived as "brutal". And as others have noted, there is no other alternatives for the individual elephants or for the survival of the species. There is not enough natural habitat remaining and there is far too high a human population near the remaining habitat for the species to survive in the wild over the long term.

[Nienke]

By saying that one can only control elephants through domination, physical force, cruel methods, it is obvious that you all have not informed yourselves (yet) on the progress that has been made in the areas of elephant behavior and humane training techniques in the last several decennia.

Through positive reinforcement techniques they can train:

hyena's to stand against the fence and allow the vet to draw blood from their hind paws,

rhinoceros offer to have their teeth brushed,

killer whales jump out of the water, turn on their sides and pee in a cup of water

hermit crabs to ring a bell

gold fish to push a ball through a hoop or in a goal,

big birds stand on a mat so zoo keepers can go in their enclosures to clean without them flying against the fence in panic and hurt themselves,

giraffes stand on a scale in a small enclosure

rats and guinea pigs to detect mines

etc.

All the animals do so voluntarily and have been trained without intimidation and force, but with positive reinforcement techniques.

Also, in the elephant world positive reinforcement training has made its entrance. So yes, it is possible to train an elephant without inflicting severe physical and emotional pain.

http://www.elephantaidinternational.org/CEM.php

http://www.marylandzoo.org/animals-conservation/elephant-program/training-101-how-we-train-our-elephants/

By visiting elephant camps or shows, without informing yourself on, where these creatures came form as baby elephant, how they are kept and trained and how it can be done differently, you (now knowingly) contribute to an immense suffering on the part of this huge gentle creature. What that kind of suffering is you can read here: http://www.elephanttrust.org/node/376

For more info or if you do want to visit the elephant but do not want to contribute to more suffering:
http://www.theasianelephantfoundation.org/

http://www.bring-the-elephant-home.org/en/

and of course The Elephant Nature Park.

(and no, I'm not an elephant expert and never have trained one. I just study a LOT about positive reinforcement and animal behavior, with dogs as being my specialty) .

[NolaK]

By saying that one can only control elephants through domination, physical force, cruel methods, it is obvious that you all have not informed yourselves (yet) on the progress that has been made in the areas of elephant behavior and humane training techniques in the last several decennia.

Through positive reinforcement techniques they can train:

hyena's to stand against the fence and allow the vet to draw blood from their hind paws,

rhinoceros offer to have their teeth brushed,

killer whales jump out of the water, turn on their sides and pee in a cup of water

hermit crabs to ring a bell

gold fish to push a ball through a hoop or in a goal,

big birds stand on a mat so zoo keepers can go in their enclosures to clean without them flying against the fence in panic and hurt themselves,

giraffes stand on a scale in a small enclosure

rats and guinea pigs to detect mines

etc.

All the animals do so voluntarily and have been trained without intimidation and force, but with positive reinforcement techniques.

Also, in the elephant world positive reinforcement training has made its entrance. So yes, it is possible to train an elephant without inflicting severe physical and emotional pain.

http://www.elephantaidinternational.org/CEM.php

http://www.marylandzoo.org/animals-conservation/elephant-program/training-101-how-we-train-our-elephants/

By visiting elephant camps or shows, without informing yourself on, where these creatures came form as baby elephant, how they are kept and trained and how it can be done differently, you (now knowingly) contribute to an immense suffering on the part of this huge gentle creature. What that kind of suffering is you can read here: http://www.elephanttrust.org/node/376

For more info or if you do want to visit the elephant but do not want to contribute to more suffering:

http://www.theasianelephantfoundation.org/

http://www.bring-the-elephant-home.org/en/

and of course The Elephant Nature Park.

(and no, I'm not an elephant expert and never have trained one. I just study a LOT about positive reinforcement and animal behavior, with dogs as being my specialty) .

Nailed it! Positive training techniques can be used, but more needs to change.

The reason there seems to be no end in sight is a lack of responsible, informed travel consumers who are willing to put their money where their mouth is and just say NO to rides, treks, street begging and shows. People should learn, educate others and stand up for what is right, not just do it because other are. Apathy is not how change comes about. As for elephant being killed, wild baby elephants are taken – even in National Parks here – by killing the mothers and other members of the matriarchal families (herds) to supply the growing trade.

The expat community is here long enough to learn and needs to let guests know the truth being any irresponsible activity from the fake orphanages of Cambodia to programs that abuse animals vs. those, such as Elephant Nature Park and Boon Lott’s Elephant Sanctuary, where their money and remarkable travel experience benefit animals the travel consumers long to connect with.