" For the same reason diesel engines have so much more power and better fuel economy in the same package as gas engines, diesel BTU is a lot higher than benzine." - oh really?

You may think whatever you like but the BTU of benzine is higher than BTU of ethanol so here's a science for you even though it sounds as simple as that. Higher BTU, hither the power output. For the same reason diesel engines have so much more power and better fuel economy in the same package as gas engines, diesel BTU is a lot higher than benzine.

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If you think that changing the forecourt fuel in your car make any significant increase the power, you are seriously mistaken.

I can only vouch for my oen experience, and the difference between 95 Benzene and gasohol is definitely noticeable - that's in a 3.0L supercharged V6 though, so more HP than the topic car..

The everlasting discussion

I have a comparable small car (Mazda 2, 2 years old).

1) It is built and specified for E20. So absolutely no need to fill the most expensive benzene stuff (I never do). The car runs fine with no probs either on E10 or E20. All new passenger cars made in Thailand are E20 compliant at least. Ethanol does not do any harm to the engine as such. The problem are plastic parts used in older cars, which might be destroyed. But as stated: the cars are E20 compliant. (I am writing about 91 octane E10, have not tested with 95 octane)

2) I tested fuel consumption with E10 and E20, With E10 it is about 7l/100km, with E20 it is about 7,5l/100km (sorry I am metric, not delighted to do quirky conversions). With the existing price difference it makes almost no difference in cost. Due to the better availability of E10 I usually stick to this fuel. If the price difference would be raised to 5 Baht, I would probably change to E20.

E85: I am aware that some of the latest models now come with this specification. If a car is E85 compliant, then of course this is the most economic solution (less than 23 Baht/l). Availability is still poor.

You may think whatever you like but the BTU of benzine is higher than BTU of ethanol so here's a science for you even though it sounds as simple as that. Higher BTU, hither the power output. For the same reason diesel engines have so much more power and better fuel economy in the same package as gas engines, diesel BTU is a lot higher than benzine.

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If you think that changing the forecourt fuel in your car make any significant increase the power, you are seriously mistaken.

I can only vouch for my oen experience, and the difference between 95 Benzene and gasohol is definitely noticeable - that's in a 3.0L supercharged V6 though, so more HP than the topic car..

"noticeable" - that is a highly subjective , non-scientific term very popular with home mechanics and boy racers.....and as for your subject for comparison....well you're joking aren't you?

There seems to be a problem here of people not being able to tell the difference between science and advertising spiel.

There seems to be a problem here of people not being able to tell the difference between science and advertising spiel.

What are you on about? LOL

It's scientific fact that ethanol has less energy per measure than benzene.

Please don't tell me you're working on RON ratings for your argument

I also like the way you made the connection between my engine specs and "boy racers" - you are indeed clever

wilcopops, do you have anything sensible to add to the subject or you just like throwing around your opinions and believes? It reminds me of arguments between theists and atheists, " no that's not true - read the Bible " - their favorite comeback to any evidence...

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wilcopops, do you have anything sensible to add to the subject or you just like throwing around your opinions and believes? It reminds me of arguments between theists and atheists, " no that's not true - read the Bible " - their favorite comeback to any evidence...

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Just because I've pointed out your are talking nonsense there's no need to get uppity. many people are conned into thinking that things like fuel additives are "essential" for their cars - it's one of the only ways the fuel companies can differentiate their product from their competitors.

I won't blind you with science because I can see from your comments already you wouldn't understand.

You won't blind me with "your" science? OK then, if its based on the same "logic" if yours, I just don't want to know.

Last couple of points from me.

First, several others as well have pointed out that benzine has higher BTU than gasohol.

Second, it is you who keeps talking about and seems to be confused with fuel additives vs fuel types. Petrol and alcohol are fuel types, not additives.

I've nothing else to say to you do enjoy your nonsense arguments with someone else.

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You may think whatever you like but the BTU of benzine is higher than BTU of ethanol so here's a science for you even though it sounds as simple as that. Higher BTU, hither the power output. For the same reason diesel engines have so much more power and better fuel economy in the same package as gas engines, diesel BTU is a lot higher than benzine.

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If you think that changing the forecourt fuel in your car make any significant increase the power, you are seriously mistaken.

I can only vouch for my oen experience, and the difference between 95 Benzene and gasohol is definitely noticeable - that's in a 3.0L supercharged V6 though, so more HP than the topic car..

"noticeable" - that is a highly subjective , non-scientific term very popular with home mechanics and boy racers.....and as for your subject for comparison....well you're joking aren't you?

Nonsense! It's more applicable to people who actually KNOW what they're talking about and have the experience to actually notice I.E. professionals, which disqualifies approximately 3/4's of the people who post here.. I guess that puts you in that class if you CAN'T tell the difference.. JFYI my 8 and 9 year old can tell the difference and have noted it so, but they're both more perceptive than many people who post here too..

There seems to be a problem here of people not being able to tell the difference between science and advertising spiel.

Yes and you have trouble with both..

wilcopops, do you have anything sensible to add to the subject or you just like throwing around your opinions and believes? It reminds me of arguments between theists and atheists, " no that's not true - read the Bible " - their favorite comeback to any evidence...

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Oh Gawd!! .......... Please don't go there ...........

wilcopops, do you have anything sensible to add to the subject or you just like throwing around your opinions and believes? It reminds me of arguments between theists and atheists, " no that's not true - read the Bible " - their favorite comeback to any evidence...

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Just because I've pointed out your are talking nonsense there's no need to get uppity. many people are conned into thinking that things like fuel additives are "essential" for their cars - it's one of the only ways the fuel companies can differentiate their product from their competitors.

I won't blind you with science because I can see from your comments already you wouldn't understand.

And equal numbers of people allow themselves to be cynical to the point of denial and an inability of accepting real facts even when presented to them by people who have real applicable knowledge.

Try this more extreme example to make a differentiation if you're capable of comprehending it? Why use higher octane (read more combustible) rated fuels in motorsports or small engined aircraft if you like, which operate in an atmosphere that requires higher volatility to produce enough Hp to keep them flying in low oxygen conditions if the fuels don't produce more HP?

I use 110 petrol (not gasohol) in my street stock class sports cars with no engine mods and they pick up 1 to 2 seconds per lap and a significantly measurable difference in mileage on endurance races of 2 to 24 hours, how does that happen if there is no performance difference to be had and it's all just a sales pitch? That's also the same grade used in most small aircraft BTW.

For those still non-believers:

http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/unleaded_vs_e10_the_comparison_test

OK, they only measured FE, but efficiency losses are power losses too

All a Load of Cobblers to Me. My Cars n Trucks have a Handbook. You can fill the Diesel Truck with Diesel. Bit difficult if the Station is closed ,so you find one that's Open, and fill it up with Diesel !!. Bit Trickey That for some of you it seems.!!. A new Car can be a problem, from E85,E20,to Bio-Gradable Turnip Juice, the list seems endless, but as long as its stated in the Handbook, the bloody thing fires up, and gets U Home.

Drivers, Mechanics and fitters - not a single engineer or scientist among them.

Troll, go away.

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Troll, go away.

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Another Self Appointed Mod, let him have his say, did Cocopops hit a nerve.

LOL.

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All a Load of Cobblers to Me. My Cars n Trucks have a Handbook. You can fill the Diesel Truck with Diesel. Bit difficult if the Station is closed ,so you find one that's Open, and fill it up with Diesel !!. Bit Trickey That for some of you it seems.!!. A new Car can be a problem, from E85,E20,to Bio-Gradable Turnip Juice, the list seems endless, but as long as its stated in the Handbook, the bloody thing fires up, and gets U Home.

Very true.

There are other concerns however.

The age of the proscribed fuel can have a measured impact. The older the fuel the more likely it is to have been affected by oxidation. All kerosene, gasoline and ether fuels are also hygroscopic and absorb water. So the older the fuel, the more water has been absorbed. This leads to a degeneration of the fuel efficiency.

So fuel purchased from a gas station with a high rate of turnover is a better fuel. Irrespective of the fuel type. Assuming that particular gas station doesn't have other issues.

The majority of cars are produced to cater for the needs of the average man in the street and are designed to run on the fuel stipulated in the associated handbook for the particular car in question. So if the handbook states gasahol 91 and you fill it with gasoline 95. what will happen?

Fuel efficiency is pretty high up in the design parameters of a modern car engine. So the engine management system will restrict the power advantage of the higher rated fuel to a level which is almost impercievable without instrumented measurement. Fuel efficiency will increase and that is the most percievable benefit. To benefit from the power advantage of the fuel the engine managemnet system must be changed. Other mechanical modifications may also be needed.

Just fill up with the fuel of your choice.

Jerry

Drivers, Mechanics and fitters - not a single engineer or scientist among them.

Ermm, I AM an engineer..

True and alcohol evaporates more quickly thus further decreasing the fuels effectiveness as it ages either in the cars tank or the stations storage tanks, heat also increases that effect as well.....

True and alcohol evaporates more quickly thus further decreasing the fuels effectiveness as it ages either in the cars tank or the stations storage tanks, heat also increases that effect as well.....

Anyone who says something like this is not an engineer - you completely ignore the other volatiles in the fuel - you write/think like an amateur or a fitter!

True and alcohol evaporates more quickly thus further decreasing the fuels effectiveness as it ages either in the cars tank or the stations storage tanks, heat also increases that effect as well.....

Anyone who says something like this is not an engineer - you completely ignore the other volatiles in the fuel - you write/think like an amateur or a fitter!

And you speak more like a bitter,argumentative troll losing a debate and thus turning it personal to redirect away from your deficiencies of knowledge on the topic. Au contrare, it displays something far more then just an engineer, it displays someone who puts practical knowledge to use on a whole different level then the common man.. I'm guessing you're one of those sillies who thinks gasohol has nothing to do with preventing freezing in cold climates either?

I ignore the other volatile contents in the fuel because they have nothing to do with the statement made.. If you think being an engineer is the be all end all to knowledge & application, that exposes your ignorance, as much of what is "engineered" to work one way on paper or in theory turns out not to be the case when put into practical application.. As such the best "engineer" is one who also applies and practices their knowledge personally, you're demonstrating that doesn't apply to you..

JFYI I write like someone who has to relate to people like you who have limited capacity so I dumb it down a bit for the masses to understand. Even still I often get accused of speaking over others heads in spite of trying hard not to..

every day I encounter people who when asked what they do say "I'm an engineer" and like you they are clearly not....they just think that because they have a cursory knowledge of engineering or worse mechanics, they think they can call themselves and engineer. sadly it is often the fault of their employees who are only too happy to bandy this word about.......and of course those using the erm are always reluctant to admit that they are fooling themselves as well as many others.

however if you are completely unable to take a scientific approach to a subject then it is quite clear you are not an engineer regardless of what labels may have been attached to you.

Just a little thing to think about - if the other volatiles evaporate at a faster rate than the alcohol then it is quite plausible that the proportion of alcohol might actually increase.

And who are you again?

every day I encounter people who when asked what they do say "I'm an engineer" and like you they are clearly not....they just think that because they have a cursory knowledge of engineering or worse mechanics, they think they can call themselves and engineer. sadly it is often the fault of their employees who are only too happy to bandy this word about.......and of course those using the erm are always reluctant to admit that they are fooling themselves as well as many others.

however if you are completely unable to take a scientific approach to a subject then it is quite clear you are not an engineer regardless of what labels may have been attached to you.

every day I encounter people who when asked what they do say "I'm an engineer" and like you they are clearly not....

I've met plenty who've also said the same, and even had the paperwork to prove it, but still weren't a real engineer's a$$hole

Don't get me started on the ones that say things like "I'm a graphic designer", "I'm an interior decorator", "I'm a carpenter", "I'm a tiler", "I'm a mechanic", "I'm an electrician" etc etc

If you want to see the absolute saddest cases ever of "I'm a......", just watch The Apprentice Asia

So far the whole range of Fuel,including E85 has no effect on KPL.But i rarely do City driving.Stays at 15.2.

every day I encounter people who when asked what they do say "I'm an engineer" and like you they are clearly not....

I've met plenty who've also said the same, and even had the paperwork to prove it, but still weren't a real engineer's a$$hole

Don't get me started on the ones that say things like "I'm a graphic designer", "I'm an interior decorator", "I'm a carpenter", "I'm a tiler", "I'm a mechanic", "I'm an electrician" etc etc

If you want to see the absolute saddest cases ever of "I'm a......", just watch The Apprentice Asia

Sadly he agrees and doesn't even see it's directed at him ..